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Old 02-22-2012, 09:11 AM   #1
Drumstix

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Is there an actual focus on end-game content at all anymore? I'm speaking specifically towards Plane of War. This zone was just recently unlocked, and apparently the zone was disabled because it was found that some of the easier trash was simply too easy to kill.

The buff package on the zone basically calls for 340 crit mit, 375 crit chance. Some of the nameds debuff crit chance by a lot (40% for example). The "fix", according to most recent test notes, is moving a named real close to the door. Okay, seriously? This is also, btw, the named that debuffs crit chance by a ton.  Is this zone finished? Shouldn't we be eager to jump into the new content, not be disappointed by unfinished content?

This zone has been in the game as, theoretically, an unlockable zone for months now (over half a year if I recall). Was it a big surprise that this zone was going to be entered by raiders? Vallon Zek has been recieving "fixes"/nerfs for well over two weeks+ now, as well as all the nameds before him. I'm really trying to be nice in asking, but was there no foresight to this occuring? Shouldn't this zone have been well ready to be accessed?

Itemization has been such a huge issue brought up by players through this WHOLE expansion, and now we're starting to see guilds enter new zones and the brokeness of itemization directly carries into these zones and what they require and what they drop. The reason I'm even creating this is thread is that I know more new zones are already in the process of being made. These zones will either be a direct successor to Plane of War, or be some kind of middle ground between Drunder and Plane of War. So my concern is: When is the focus going to be directed at what is CURRENTLY in the game and actively being raided. If there is no continuity/balance to the progression, it's going to continue to be broken with new content, too.

If the Plane of War, as well as the next set of zones, is going to follow the pattern of what's curerently going on, who is going to to stick around in these zones? There are still fixes being applied to original DoV released raid zones, and a whole backlog of issues that span the entirety of raid zones currently. The most difficult encounters pre-PoW have been beat in the game to unlock a new zone, and barely a notice was given except on a fansite progression thread.

My plea: Please be more aggresive in content creation and management, and readying zones for public. Please re-examine the scripts, the itemization, the loot tables, and get this content on track. In my opinion: If the dev team isn't up-to-date with what's going on with your players in the game, the team is either looking too far ahead, or just not looking at all.

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Old 02-22-2012, 06:14 PM   #2
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[email protected] wrote:

Is there an actual focus on end-game content at all anymore? I'm speaking specifically towards Plane of War. This zone was just recently unlocked, and apparently the zone was disabled because it was found that some of the easier trash was simply too easy to kill.

The buff package on the zone basically calls for 340 crit mit, 375 crit chance. Some of the nameds debuff crit chance by a lot (40% for example). The "fix", according to most recent test notes, is moving a named real close to the door. Okay, seriously? This is also, btw, the named that debuffs crit chance by a ton.  Is this zone finished? Shouldn't we be eager to jump into the new content, not be disappointed by unfinished content?

This zone has been in the game as, theoretically, an unlockable zone for months now (over half a year if I recall). Was it a big surprise that this zone was going to be entered by raiders? Vallon Zek has been recieving "fixes"/nerfs for well over two weeks+ now, as well as all the nameds before him. I'm really trying to be nice in asking, but was there no foresight to this occuring? Shouldn't this zone have been well ready to be accessed?

Itemization has been such a huge issue brought up by players through this WHOLE expansion, and now we're starting to see guilds enter new zones and the brokeness of itemization directly carries into these zones and what they require and what they drop. The reason I'm even creating this is thread is that I know more new zones are already in the process of being made. These zones will either be a direct successor to Plane of War, or be some kind of middle ground between Drunder and Plane of War. So my concern is: When is the focus going to be directed at what is CURRENTLY in the game and actively being raided. If there is no continuity/balance to the progression, it's going to continue to be broken with new content, too.

If the Plane of War, as well as the next set of zones, is going to follow the pattern of what's curerently going on, who is going to to stick around in these zones? There are still fixes being applied to original DoV released raid zones, and a whole backlog of issues that span the entirety of raid zones currently. The most difficult encounters pre-PoW have been beat in the game to unlock a new zone, and barely a notice was given except on a fansite progression thread.

My plea: Please be more aggresive in content creation and management, and readying zones for public. Please re-examine the scripts, the itemization, the loot tables, and get this content on track. In my opinion: If the dev team isn't up-to-date with what's going on with your players in the game, the team is either looking too far ahead, or just not looking at all.

I agree with basically everything said here.  It's absolutely bizarre that SO much of this expansion's content has been screwed up the way it has.  Having raided everything while current, with the exception of EoF, some of the contested, and Wing 3, I can say this kind of systemic imbalance is new and totally unacceptable.  There have obviously been encounters that were unkillable, but it seems like this expansion it's been one after another, darn near everything past EM DoV release raids.

It almost seems like whoever had oversight on the raid designer just threw up his hands and told the designer to just go nuts.  And considering what I've heard about how he does that design, it pretty much means everything is unkillable due to impossible scripts, be it impossible cure/nocure, impossible dps checks, impossible tank situations, whatever.  Until some other developer deigns to fix the problem.  But by then it's just gotten to the point of meh.

It's obivious that raid design is now completely outside of what the development team [has been told it] cares about, but there's likely still a pretty significant arc through to the "end" boss of the expansion.  My plea to the devs is to make sure it gets done, show us you still care about us enough to do that, to put in at least the level of quality you did in expansions prior to DoV.  I don't know if PoW is a lost cause or not, or where the raid content for DoV II will fall in the progression curve, but you guys should at least know, and make sure it works in that way.

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Old 02-22-2012, 07:50 PM   #3
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I still don't see why they moved away from the SF model of the game. It's proven to be such a huge headache for everyone involved to change it to the DoV model.

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:02 PM   #4
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Plane of War was reopened this morning. Apparently their solution to trash being too easy is to move the first boss to the zone entrance and make him agro if you touch a trash mob in the zone. How is this a reasonable solution? As it stands the first boss requires 340 CM and 408 CC. For many people the crit chance is a huge problem unless they are willing to farm drunder necks and two EoW charms. This is completely absurd when the trash in the zone drops charms w/ almost 70% crit chance on them. Either tone this bosses buff package down or keep him nearly unkillable until CM removal is in place. My solution is a zone wide nerf to the buff package. IMO PoW should require 320 CM 340 CC for trash. Bosses can keep their detriments that debuff CC even further (55% on some bosses). This will allow guilds who are currently clearing HM Drunder to go inside the zone and actually have a chance at killing the content. As it stands my guild had to completely re-adorn for this zone and even then many members do not meet these steep gear requirements. After all is said and done each player is going to WASTE several blue and white shards and a load of plat re adorning for CM/CC and still find the boss isn't killable in it's current state.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:12 PM   #5
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I don't believe they still have the resources to deliver on quality zones with well thought out itemization.

Drunder had some really rough edges, and PoW is obvious fail cake.  I would expect the same due dilligence going forward.

And I don't mean to insult the developers as I know they're busting their rumps, but its pretty clear they lack the resources and leadership to deliver some reasonably polished content updates.

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:28 PM   #6
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This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=49996...post_id=5721975 Trolling is not permitted.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:33 PM   #7
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slippery wrote:

The following was what Kander said to me "Just making a couple tweaks that really shouldn’t effect anyone that should be in there." Because I guess the people who unlocked the zone shouldn't be able to kill the trash in the zone that drops the charms with the crit chance you need to be able to kill the nameds in the zone, which now stop you from pulling the trash. Makes complete sense to me...... It's just grossly incompetent with a major lack of understanding of how the game actually works.

You may be right...

But, the huge soe fanboi that I am (heh), I think Kander actually understands the issues involved here, I just don't think he has the time to really get it polished and fixed right, and he and the resources that built the zone months ago were not enough to get it done well to begin with.

I predict we'll see some just blanket nerfing to make the zone playable, as they can't be taken off their current assignments long enough to give this the attention it really requires.

SJ has a clear vision of rapid content is better than less frequent polished content.

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:44 PM   #8
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The real problem is that the zone probably STILL isn't finished.  What else are we left to believe?

Look at it.

Someone FINALLY gets there.  They realize the first named is a complete no go, despite the fact they've been farming the "required" zone lead in mobs for months.

They then realize, look, this trash drops stuff that WILL get us there.

The Devs go:  "Oh @*()$.  Someone is about to actually start working this zone.  It's not done.  How can we stop that?"

Poof.  First mob moved to door to block any possibility of seeing further into the zone.

It just seems so ludicrous.

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:46 PM   #9
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Hey Soe-Mod 7 of 9, someone posting the actual truth about what is wrong with the zones isn't really trolling.

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:49 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

slippery wrote:

The following was what Kander said to me "Just making a couple tweaks that really shouldn’t effect anyone that should be in there." Because I guess the people who unlocked the zone shouldn't be able to kill the trash in the zone that drops the charms with the crit chance you need to be able to kill the nameds in the zone, which now stop you from pulling the trash. Makes complete sense to me...... It's just grossly incompetent with a major lack of understanding of how the game actually works.

You may be right...

But, the huge soe fanboi that I am (heh), I think Kander actually understands the issues involved here, I just don't think he has the time to really get it polished and fixed right, and he and the resources that built the zone months ago were not enough to get it done well to begin with.

I predict we'll see some just blanket nerfing to make the zone playable, as they can't be taken off their current assignments long enough to give this the attention it really requires.

SJ has a clear vision of rapid content is better than less frequent polished content.

I might believe Kander understood the issues if he hadn't told me multiple times in the past 6 to 9 months that Drunder itemization was getting looked at, that they had someone on the issue. Yet here we are, and the loot tables don't even make a lick of sense. 

Or that he told me Mythicals would have a reasonable drop rate because he wanted them to be a reason for people to do these zones. Yet as it stands the mythicals may as well not exist, and I'm pretty sure for Mages and Priest they don't (and a melee weapon for scouts). 

But don't worry, if you paid $40 for AoD you can roll a Beastlord and get a Mythical from an easier mob on 100% drop chance. 

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:50 PM   #11
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I know it wouldn't solve all the issues, but they really need to scrap crit avoidance.

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Old 02-23-2012, 02:56 PM   #12
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I know it wouldn't solve all the issues, but they really need to scrap crit avoidance.

They didn't even scrap crit mit right. Instead of just removing all crit chance they decided to mess with the stat packages and made the mobs do less damage. Not only that it's just been rotting on test with not a word about it. 

It just doesn't make any sense at all. If you just removed Crit Chance from mobs they wouldn't do any additional damage because they wouldn't crit, just like on live now if you have the crit mit you need. I just don't understand how that solution makes sense. 

I have no problem with Crit Avoidance. I have a problem with numbers players can't reach, in zones that have been live 6 months that are just getting unlocked, and are impossible because of unreachable numbers. 

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Old 02-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #13
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My problem with crit avoid is that they can't implement it correctly.  From what I saw, it looked like several of the bosses later in the zone required less crit chance than the boar.  How can they have a gating mechanic that's so illogical like that?  And as long as you can adorn for so much crit chance, it's hard to actually gate players with it...unless you force people to adorn entirely for crit chance in order to progress, which is terrible design.

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Old 02-23-2012, 03:08 PM   #14
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

My problem is that they can't implement it correctly.  From what I saw, it looked like several of the bosses later in the zone required less crit chance than the boar.  How can they have a gating mechanic that's so illogical like that?  And as long as you can adorn for so much crit chance, it's hard to actually gate players with it...unless you force people to adorn entirely for crit chance in order to progress, which is terrible design.

If adorning entirely for crit chance is the case, then why scrap crit mit? Its just stealing from Peter to pay Paul.

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Old 02-23-2012, 03:58 PM   #15
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Crit Chance has jack and squat to do with Crit Mit . . .

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Old 02-23-2012, 04:06 PM   #16
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Banditman wrote:

Crit Chance has jack and squat to do with Crit Mit . . .

Duh.

However.

If they're removing the CM requirement from zones, leaving us only to need to adorn for full crit chance, that kind of defeats part of the purpose of removing CM requirements in order to adorn for things other than CM if you still need to adorn practically entirely for one other stat ie crit chance.

Make sense now?

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Old 02-23-2012, 04:56 PM   #17
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Varixx Tarnok wrote:

Banditman wrote:

Crit Chance has jack and squat to do with Crit Mit . . .

Duh.

However.

If they're removing the CM requirement from zones, leaving us only to need to adorn for full crit chance, that kind of defeats part of the purpose of removing CM requirements in order to adorn for things other than CM if you still need to adorn practically entirely for one other stat ie crit chance.

Make sense now?

Exactly, and even if they nerf the mobs so that you don't need to adorn for crit chance, well...what's the point of the mechanic really then?  Certainly not to gate anything.  Yeah, crit chance above 100% matters...yay? I don't think it's cool how crit chance is ridiculously important if you're below 100% crit rate but then instantly irrelevant once you're at 100%.  It's just a dumb mechanic all around.

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Old 02-23-2012, 06:04 PM   #18
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The difference being there are a lot more ways to get Crit Chance than there are to get Crit Mit.

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Old 02-24-2012, 12:22 AM   #19
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This may be true, but due to gear/itemization not all classes can reach the same ammount of crit, especially when it comes to fighters and reaching ~410 crit chance....

How this zone can be so low on the list of things to have done/ready is just overall demoralizing. Sure not that many people are able to zone in yet, but there's still a laundry list of things in drunder that could be different. The longer it takes for the team to figure out and implement any kind of crit mit change, and not change gear, the worse the problem becomes.

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Old 02-24-2012, 12:58 AM   #20
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Problem is the gear is ... just way better then everything.. the gear jumps have been way to much from SF to DoV-Drundar-PoW.

Gear gets x2 better every update, and now theres jewelry with stats like +75% Multiattack...

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:05 AM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

Is there an actual focus on end-game content at all anymore? I'm speaking specifically towards Plane of War. This zone was just recently unlocked, and apparently the zone was disabled because it was found that some of the easier trash was simply too easy to kill.

The buff package on the zone basically calls for 340 crit mit, 375 crit chance. Some of the nameds debuff crit chance by a lot (40% for example). The "fix", according to most recent test notes, is moving a named real close to the door. Okay, seriously? This is also, btw, the named that debuffs crit chance by a ton.  Is this zone finished? Shouldn't we be eager to jump into the new content, not be disappointed by unfinished content?

This zone has been in the game as, theoretically, an unlockable zone for months now (over half a year if I recall). Was it a big surprise that this zone was going to be entered by raiders? Vallon Zek has been recieving "fixes"/nerfs for well over two weeks+ now, as well as all the nameds before him. I'm really trying to be nice in asking, but was there no foresight to this occuring? Shouldn't this zone have been well ready to be accessed?

Itemization has been such a huge issue brought up by players through this WHOLE expansion, and now we're starting to see guilds enter new zones and the brokeness of itemization directly carries into these zones and what they require and what they drop. The reason I'm even creating this is thread is that I know more new zones are already in the process of being made. These zones will either be a direct successor to Plane of War, or be some kind of middle ground between Drunder and Plane of War. So my concern is: When is the focus going to be directed at what is CURRENTLY in the game and actively being raided. If there is no continuity/balance to the progression, it's going to continue to be broken with new content, too.

If the Plane of War, as well as the next set of zones, is going to follow the pattern of what's curerently going on, who is going to to stick around in these zones? There are still fixes being applied to original DoV released raid zones, and a whole backlog of issues that span the entirety of raid zones currently. The most difficult encounters pre-PoW have been beat in the game to unlock a new zone, and barely a notice was given except on a fansite progression thread.

My plea: Please be more aggresive in content creation and management, and readying zones for public. Please re-examine the scripts, the itemization, the loot tables, and get this content on track. In my opinion: If the dev team isn't up-to-date with what's going on with your players in the game, the team is either looking too far ahead, or just not looking at all.

qfe

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:06 AM   #22
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Problem is the gear is ... just way better then everything.. the gear jumps have been way to much from SF to DoV-Drundar-PoW.

Gear gets x2 better every update, and now theres jewelry with stats like +75% Multiattack...

Your post has nothing to do with anything be talked about in this topic.

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:22 AM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Problem is the gear is ... just way better then everything.. the gear jumps have been way to much from SF to DoV-Drundar-PoW.

Gear gets x2 better every update, and now theres jewelry with stats like +75% Multiattack...

Your post has nothing to do with anything be talked about in this topic.

He's trying to justify the insane gear stat requirements with "well the gear there is just THAT awesome that it deserves to be near impossible to get".

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:32 AM   #24
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I think the real kicker here is that SJ was so adamanat that PoW was ready even though we weren't ready for PoW- that it was so important to get guilds through the Drunder content and into PoW by February. And this was back in...what? October? November? Something like that.

And here we are.

Its sad that progression isn't marked by skill as much as its marked by whether a hotfix went in this week and who's raiding what of the top 5 that night. I can see we're going to get that for PoW as well.

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Old 02-24-2012, 02:52 AM   #25
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I think they were merely implying that removing one 'gating' stat and replacing it with another, is like changing from Hanes to Fruit of the Loom, without changing styles.  It may feel a bit different, but at the end of the day, a brief is a brief.  For a lot of us, pants in general are uncomfortable, but if that's the club standard because it is a family friendly establishment..

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:12 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

How this zone can be so low on the list of things to have done/ready is just overall demoralizing. 

So totally demoralizing. SMILEY

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Old 02-25-2012, 05:29 AM   #27
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WanyenII wrote:

I think they were merely implying that removing one 'gating' stat and replacing it with another, is like changing from Hanes to Fruit of the Loom, without changing styles.  It may feel a bit different, but at the end of the day, a brief is a brief.  For a lot of us, pants in general are uncomfortable, but if that's the club standard because it is a family friendly establishment..

Pants are for wimps.

Rock out with your... erm.  *shuffles off to the corner*

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Old 02-25-2012, 11:33 AM   #28
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Did anyone here expect anything different from SOE?  We all knew this zone would look like a 50 car pile up.

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Old 02-28-2012, 06:37 AM   #29
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Whether we expected it to be a train wreck or not is really besides the point now. What matters is what happens here on out, because if it keeps continuing like this, player interest in raiding is just going to plummit further than it is already.

Truly a lot more people need to spark some attention to this and maybe get some feedback from the development team. As of so far, there's been no new posts about PoW, nothing new on the Crit Mit scene, and another week of no changes in drunder (outside of easy mode....)

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Old 02-28-2012, 06:11 PM   #30
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[email protected] wrote:

WanyenII wrote:

I think they were merely implying that removing one 'gating' stat and replacing it with another, is like changing from Hanes to Fruit of the Loom, without changing styles.  It may feel a bit different, but at the end of the day, a brief is a brief.  For a lot of us, pants in general are uncomfortable, but if that's the club standard because it is a family friendly establishment..

Pants are for wimps.

Rock out with your... erm.  *shuffles off to the corner*

I believe that this is what you were looking for:

Drum's OP was spot-on.  Spot on.  I don't think that this dev team has the leadership to make use of the resources to deliver quality content any more.  I know, saying anything that casts a negative light on Smokejumper gets you in trouble around here, but the quality of the game has significantly degraded since he took over.  His "leadership" hasn't done anything to further the long-term health of the game, in terms of playability.

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