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Old 08-04-2008, 01:50 PM   #271
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Ease up, guys.  This topic can be discussed without undue amounts of snark and crankiness.Thank you.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:11 PM   #272
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[email protected] wrote:
Are there seriously still people who think having all classes wasnt one BIG factor of getting mythicals?Clearing VP without having a single ex-exiled helping out in a city faction is plain impossible... for now.Ofcourse you will have lots of exileds screaming when the first city guilds get their mythicals w/o exiling, but that will be 1 whole year later.Guys get real, seriously.

I haven't been on any raids with your guild Darkor, but I have been on raids in factions, and the difference between a faction raid and an exiled one is huge. It's like a completely different game. Every time i go raiding with a faction guild I end the raid wanting to go find a kitten to kick or something. It's an excercise in futility, because there are so many people who just can't play. EQ2 is an EASY game. It's so easy you can write a program to run instances for you. The only hard part of EQ2 is getting the RNG to drop the gear you need. After that its all gravy.

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Old 08-04-2008, 02:26 PM   #273
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Grey Wolves has been a raiding guild for a looong time, they go exile, they add a handfull of people and are suddenly successfull raiding. The core is still the same, only a few switched classes. I know going exiled brings dedicated people together, but you cant tell me there is not atleast 1 city guild that wants to raid successfull.
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Old 08-04-2008, 02:41 PM   #274
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Raiding with the few key cross aligned classes IS and WILL be easier.  No raiding force in its right mind believes having those key classes means walking into a raid zone and expecting mobs to just grab our belt loop and say, "Hi you can call me Samantha, its short for Sam" will be the norm.  We expect to continue trying and putting in the work just as we are now.  We all know having a brigand is a vital raid requirement and we all know a templar in a MT group is superior than an inqy. 

We all know that having the same raid force show up night after night is vital - that is the only legitamate arguement the exiles have made for lack of city progression.   City raids, at least on Venekor, are taking the best candidates avail for each encounter and rotating people in and out as needed so everyone can learn the pulls.  People are learning and things continue to come together albeit slower than exiles.  OPUS has 3 main raid nights, all of which are full of guildies without having to rely on outside raiders.  The strength of this is its all our people - the weakness - people feel snubbed when I ask em to stand down for someone else.  Raiding is a popualarity contest in terms of your class only.  FREEPORT ALLIANCE draws from many guilds and can sustain a more active raid schedule than OPUS.  Hence they are 1.5 mobs ahead of us Dhamnn you Runpiggy SMILEY.  Not sure what the Euros are up to these days but they have always proved themselves a solid raid force too.  When we finally get the same raiding options as Exiles you can expect more content to die.  Why - because we already have committed players that are willing to pull and put in the time they can to learn strats and learn the encounters.  We ahve eastcoasters staying up till 2 and 3am on weeknights then working the next day.  Our eastcoasters are VERY committed to the raid force. 

SOE developed raid content around all the classes not just around FP or Q classes.  Raids were meant to be taken down with a compliment of classes not an abscene of them.  Those exiles, and not all of you - just a small handfull, bashing city players now for our lazy, slothful, incompetence I seem to recall bashed their current exile guilds now in FP chat and vent channels all the time.  Now that they are there they are bashing city factions.    Drop the drama.  SOE did not develop a game so that only 120 members of the entire PVP community (not sure of the bluebie ratio) could make endgame before the next x-pac is released.  That concept is illogical.  Granted, the best of the best will see the end game before the rest of us but not a full x-pac before the rest of us. 

We are not the scrubs you claim we are.  We have had some good even PVP fights and walked away from your exiled corpses leaving your mythical weapons collecting dust.  And don't take that wrong - standing up to a mythical exiled group for 6.5 minutes was the best PVP fight I have had all year.  It reasserts my belief that city faction have good players on par with exiled players and that the main thing we are lacking is class access (and in Opus' case another raid day per week maybe).   Currently Exiles dominate the endgame gear and city factions will be going into the next x-pac holding the short end of the raid ready stick.  PVP gear does not make good raid gear as many have claimed.  Guardian trousers have no avoidance on them.  Sure the +7 DA is great on the scrub trash mobs but give me my hate hardened greaves anyday for a named.   And the control effect jewelry is useless in raid zones.  

Should things stay the way they are, with no opening of classes, lets go with the exile arguement that PVP gear is roughly equivalent to VP gear (VP gear = better vs PVE and PVP = better vs PVP) and argue for Mythicals being accessible on the PVP Merchant at a rate of perhaps 1-2k tokens for a mythical?  Tokens are not as easily accessible, at least on Venekor, as some X have claimed.  A few K tokens is alot of hard work.

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Old 08-04-2008, 02:43 PM   #275
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Wytie wrote:

Its easier for us exiles to see the WHOLE picture of whats really needed to win because we get to have both.

You guys keep thinking that we dont realize what it will take.  We get it, we do.  We're not asking SoE to give us bots to raid 6 hours 7 nights a week for us, we're asking for the same chances.  That's it.. just the same chances you guys have.  Right now in the cities there is a widespread belief that raiding in the city is pointless because you just can't get past certain mobs, and getting to the hardest one is that much harder because we dont have the right classes in the first place.  Give the cities a glimmer of hope, give us the balance of classes we need to raid progress.  Give both sides of this pvp conflict the same classes and let's make this a skill game, rather than a class game.  Let it be like pve where the brigs try to [Removed for Content] the assassins because of their stupid amounts of dps, rather than shutting up about it because "they're on our side".  Well, you'll hear a lot more Conj's and Illusionists crying about Rangers once people can betray them back.   THEN we can find real class balance in the game, and give the cities what they need to progress in raiding.

I STILL can't figure out why you guys are so steadfast against it.

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Old 08-04-2008, 09:04 PM   #276
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I've never been against it.

The problem is that certain people seem to believe that having all classes will be a magic bullet for raiding. That the mobs you couldn't kill before will suddenly fall over at your feet. It isnt and they wont. If you ever do get all classes I'm going to be sitting in haven killing myself laughing because you STILL wont clear VP.

Overking: If you're stuck on this mob, having a paladin will certainly help, but it is and HAS been killed with a berserker OT in freeport. Qeynos should not be stuck on this mob.

Venril: No amount of all classes is going to stop you wiping because some n00b can't manage their power.

Leviathan: This guy hits like a fairy. Should be easily killable with a faction raid. Note how no one is stuck on Leviathan? Free kill.

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Old 08-04-2008, 09:26 PM   #277
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Paikis wrote:

I've never been against it.

The problem is that certain people seem to believe that having all classes will be a magic bullet for raiding. That the mobs you couldn't kill before will suddenly fall over at your feet. It isnt and they wont. If you ever do get all classes I'm going to be sitting in haven killing myself laughing because you STILL wont clear VP.

No one is saying it is a magic bullet, they are saying it will make city faction raiding viable and at least a fair alternative.And if all factions do end up getting all classes, I highly doubt you will be sitting in Haven laughing.  If you are, you will be one of the few left.
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:37 PM   #278
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it's been wanted for 2+ years.... it's almost a slap in the face if they finally implement it now as their last chance to save pvp servers. try not letting things die instead of trying to revive dead things
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Old 08-04-2008, 09:54 PM   #279
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The reason you guys for some odd reason don't see as to why we are against this channge is that w/e who cares some of us really dont' care all that much about the raid content and we want to preserve the LORE Of the game... I really dont' want to be in FP fighting side-by-side with a paladin... no.. never NOT ONCE.I don't want to go out and think, well i can run into anything today! I play the lower tiers because exiles are not as prominent lowering the chances I run into my own factioned classes.I also don't want my ranger fighting alongside a necro... that is not just not right NO.Unfortunately, I'd rather see the exile crap sit as it is before I see a paladin in temple street.I think SOE should seriously commit to these servers and create a somewhat different ruleset for them, get RID of exiling EXCEPT for changing cities (either make it insta-transfer OR put limits on the ability to raid)  Change the mobs so that they are more easily killable by a city faction.Instead; from threads like these that get to be 20/30 pages long SOE sees an easy way out that usually splits the population causes a few people to come back and tons to quit the game (remember the level locking threads? Same deal).The thing that makes me /boggle more than anything is that from recent "hints" from devs we are seeing a change here soon.. not sure what its going to be to, exile faction or what. but If its about the city classes it reallly saddens me to see them bow to that but ignore the HUGE anti-exile threads that actually didn't break the game-lore or anything.
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Old 08-04-2008, 10:11 PM   #280
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Preserve the "lore" of the game?  The lore ... hmmm, the lore is something you can talk about when the PvP servers are eventually dead and you've been merged with a blue server, if things continue as they have.  School's starting back up in a month and the population will take the usual hit.  Warhammer will be out, too.  Enticements are needed to maintain population.Lore can be changed to match any given situation.  Exiles have only one thing to fear, and that would be having core players want to return back to their old city-bound guilds, much like city guilds have had to worry about losing their core players to exile.  If your entire guild chooses the same faction, that would give you all the "creature comforts" that you've missed. 
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Old 08-05-2008, 02:22 AM   #281
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Paikis wrote:

The problem is that certain people seem to believe that having all classes will be a magic bullet for raiding.

that's their problem, not yours.

this change will level the playing field so that only the most dedicated will be the most powerful, and there will be no balance excuse for otherwise.

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Old 08-05-2008, 02:25 AM   #282
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[email protected] wrote:
The reason you guys for some odd reason don't see as to why we are against this channge is that w/e who cares some of us really dont' care all that much about the raid content and we want to preserve the LORE Of the game... I really dont' want to be in FP fighting side-by-side with a paladin... no.. never NOT ONCE.I don't want to go out and think, well i can run into anything today! I play the lower tiers because exiles are not as prominent lowering the chances I run into my own factioned classes.I also don't want my ranger fighting alongside a necro... that is not just not right NO.Unfortunately, I'd rather see the exile crap sit as it is before I see a paladin in temple street.I think SOE should seriously commit to these servers and create a somewhat different ruleset for them, get RID of exiling EXCEPT for changing cities (either make it insta-transfer OR put limits on the ability to raid)  Change the mobs so that they are more easily killable by a city faction.Instead; from threads like these that get to be 20/30 pages long SOE sees an easy way out that usually splits the population causes a few people to come back and tons to quit the game (remember the level locking threads? Same deal).The thing that makes me /boggle more than anything is that from recent "hints" from devs we are seeing a change here soon.. not sure what its going to be to, exile faction or what. but If its about the city classes it reallly saddens me to see them bow to that but ignore the HUGE anti-exile threads that actually didn't break the game-lore or anything.

*yawn* on all the eq2 servers in the world there are only 3 where a necro and ranger can't go tag team, and a paladin can't hang out with his inquis friend in freeport.

lore is no excuse, imo

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Old 08-05-2008, 10:03 AM   #283
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It occurs to me -- and maybe this has been mentioned -- that if certain factions have inordinate amount of trouble with certain content (due to the lack of a certain opposite-faction class's abilities), that the game design flaw is "that class's counterpart needs a similar ability" rather than "factions are gimped if they can't access all classes".Powers  &8^]
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:44 AM   #284
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Powers wrote:
It occurs to me -- and maybe this has been mentioned -- that if certain factions have inordinate amount of trouble with certain content (due to the lack of a certain opposite-faction class's abilities), that the game design flaw is "that class's counterpart needs a similar ability" rather than "factions are gimped if they can't access all classes".Powers  &8^]
The "Why Ruin Class Uniqueness" thread called, it was looking for you.
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:45 PM   #285
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Bozidar wrote:
The "Why Ruin Class Uniqueness" thread called, it was looking for you.
NOW CALLING THIS THREAD WHY RUIN FACTION UNIQUENESSOSITY
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:53 PM   #286
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[email protected] wrote:
Bozidar wrote:
The "Why Ruin Class Uniqueness" thread called, it was looking for you.
NOW CALLING THIS THREAD WHY RUIN FACTION UNIQUENESSOSITY

Because "faction uniquenessosity" is a false layer of the game foisted upon 3 servers of 20, where players in 2/3rds of the factions are at a disadvantage.

now calling this thread EQUAL OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE CITIES

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Old 08-05-2008, 03:54 PM   #287
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Bozidar wrote:
*yawn* on all the eq2 servers in the world there are only 3 where a necro and ranger can't go tag team, and a paladin can't hang out with his inquis friend in freeport.
SOMEBODYS AMORALNOT REPLYING ANYMORE HAVE FUN
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Old 08-05-2008, 03:55 PM   #288
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Then take the initiative and exile, if your pvp gear sucks that much for raiding and you want to raid high-end content that badly then do something yourself about it.I swear yall whine more than pre-schoolers -.-
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:04 PM   #289
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I am so excited, please... someone of the dev team come down to us and give us a hint what will happen. Please all classes woot woot.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:06 PM   #290
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[email protected] wrote:
I am so excited, please... someone of the dev team come down to us and give us a hint what will happen.
I've given too many hints already SMILEY
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:07 PM   #291
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If you give cities all classes, then give exile faction benefits such as signets, horses, and pvp gear SMILEY
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:09 PM   #292
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How about introducing the notion of, "truce" ?

While you are in truce, you cannot engage in a pvp encounter, however you can be attacked. Similar to mentoring.

While you are in truce, you can communicate, form groups and raids with the opposing faction.

All members of the group or raid must be in truce in order for the opposing faction to join. Once groups or raids are formed, the group works exactly as on the pve servers.

You have 30 seconds of immunity when you leave truce.

A solution like this provides access to all classes, and keeps the lore mostly intact.

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Old 08-05-2008, 04:19 PM   #293
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[email protected] wrote:
Then take the initiative and exile, if your pvp gear sucks that much for raiding and you want to raid high-end content that badly then do something yourself about it.I swear yall whine more than pre-schoolers -.-
i question your ability at reading comprehension or your exposure to pre-schoolers.
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:23 PM   #294
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[email protected] wrote:
How about introducing the notion of, "truce" ?

While you are in truce, you cannot engage in a pvp encounter, however you can be attacked. Similar to mentoring.

While you are in truce, you can communicate, form groups and raids with the opposing faction.

All members of the group or raid must be in truce in order for the opposing faction to join. Once groups or raids are formed, the group works exactly as on the pve servers.

You have 30 seconds of immunity when you leave truce.

A solution like this provides access to all classes, and keeps the lore mostly intact.

Master Yollanda, the swash joins the raid to go help out in PR.  General Exploiter mysteriously goes linkdead during the raid, and when he comes back in he /shouts hey, invite me for 30 seconds or so before straight-up-murderering Master Yollanda who's in a truce and can't engage in pvp.

too many rules make them easier to exploit.

just let folks betray over and keep their class

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Old 08-05-2008, 04:39 PM   #295
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Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
I am so excited, please... someone of the dev team come down to us and give us a hint what will happen.
I've given too many hints already SMILEY
i've just gone through your last 100 posts, and no such hints are there!
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Old 08-05-2008, 04:55 PM   #296
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Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
I am so excited, please... someone of the dev team come down to us and give us a hint what will happen.
I've given too many hints already SMILEY
We should discuss the further way of proceeding during a good italian coffee.
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:11 PM   #297
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Oooh with that coffee can you throw in some Sambucca? Not that I condone drinking but I am a sailor!!
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:12 PM   #298
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[email protected] wrote:
If you give cities all classes, then give exile faction benefits such as signets, horses, and pvp gear SMILEY
Please refer to your previous post...   aka:  If you don't like it, then exile (or in this case un-exile).
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:41 PM   #299
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Everyone is so eager to flame me because I'm right =/There have been millions of posts of exile hate, I'm just saying if they give cities all factions then balance it out, I'm not complaining that exiles don't have city benefits at the moment SMILEY
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Old 08-05-2008, 05:45 PM   #300
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Aeralik wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
I am so excited, please... someone of the dev team come down to us and give us a hint what will happen.
I've given too many hints already SMILEY
Isnt this a hint in itself? Knowing this community, this post will grow to mean "We promise we will give all factions all classes within a few weeks" SMILEYAh well. SMILEY
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