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Old 03-10-2009, 03:53 PM   #1
Freliant

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Getting one piece of T3 TSO set armor requires alot of work. 20+ shard minimum + Mold/Patter from the x2 named inside the new zone. It terms of time, one piece of T3 armor can conceptually take many hours, possibly days, to adquire. However, that alone is not the reason. In order to get all 7 pieces, you also need to kill named mobs that get progressively harder. The x2 zone, is definately not a cakewalk, nor do I want it to be, and since there is a high posibility that clearing the entire zone will be very hard, the reward should also reflect this.

Right now, there is NO REASON to go after the 7 set effect. Just as an example, the bruiser went from getting +8 to mitigation, to +750 hp... yep.. a whole 750... I am sure that is totally worth giving up any slot for... The wizard set went from +4% to base damage of spells, to 1% base damage and 100 spell damage ... seriously? I can get more than a 1% increase to my dps from tons of other items in the game to replace that 6th and 7th slot.

On top of this, the ease of getting the FULL SET should be rewarded, since it is by no standard an easy task. over 150 shards are needed to get the T1 and T2 set, and I am sure that the most powerfull pieces of the T3 set are going to come from mobs who's script is so hard, that only those most dedicated players will be able to do it. Remember, just because something is flagged x2, doesn't mean that it is easier than a x4 zone. Case in point, how many groups that clear VP have done and cleared Palace of Ferhzul, a heroic zone? Because the strategies involved are hard to execute you can't say that all those that clear VP can also clear Palace of Ferhzul. Same thing can be said about the new x2 zone. Some of the strategies are very involved and should reward accordingly.

If the last piece of the 7 piece set drops off the final named (which I am sure it does) don't you think that the reward should be something better than just an hp boost or a less than apt dps boost, like 1% (on a 5k dpser, 1% is 50 dps, just to put things in perspective).

Please, and I mean it, return the bonus values on the 7 set T3 TSO to its former values... or at least replace the current ones with something that is actually worthwhile for the effort.

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Old 03-10-2009, 04:14 PM   #2
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I agree with the sentiment.  I'm not sold they need to be exactly what they were, but I feel they were lowered too far.  To the point that, would you not wear your first x4 upgrade to save the 7 piece bonus as launched? 

I would feel a 7 set bonus should be good enough to atleast give you pause on breaking it with a single piece upgrade.

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Old 03-10-2009, 05:41 PM   #3
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last peice isnt off the final name final name drops sholders agin witch is off one of the 1st 2 mobs also but yeah i think thay went a t far in nerfing a few of the 7 sets when it was never asked for what was asked was to give the x4 raid sets set bonuses that where progressivly in line with what the t3 sets got not a step down from the t3

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Old 03-10-2009, 07:07 PM   #4
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demonwrym wrote:

last peice isnt off the final name final name drops sholders agin witch is off one of the 1st 2 mobs also but yeah i think thay went a t far in nerfing a few of the 7 sets when it was never asked for what was asked was to give the x4 raid sets set bonuses that where progressivly in line with what the t3 sets got not a step down from the t3

The problem is how due you justify messing with fighters as much as they are, and promising to do so with the other classes down the road, as Aeralik has with the reason being (for lack of a beter term) mudflation if the gear continues to contribute.  I agree that the t3 stuff was smacked to hard.  I further agree the t4 stuff should have been buffed a little, thing is though doing this contradicts other issues they allege they are trying to resolve.  Slowly but surely the comments of various devs are beginning to paint them into corners because none of them have the stones to do what they often do, admit to mistakes.

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Old 03-10-2009, 07:33 PM   #5
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the tank sets are being upgraded with + taunt crit and +mitigation bonus  atleast that all thay where givin for the 1st round of upgrades when the t3 sets where finaly let out to test

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Old 03-10-2009, 08:28 PM   #6
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I could be wrong, but I just don't envision a lot of folks wearing full sets of T3 (x2) armor to the exclusion of everything else. I think SoE has seen that folks are just not progressing through the existing TSO x4 raid content and also that there is not enough of it. As has been posted elsewhere, the three x4 multimob raid zones in TSO have 1-3 easy names and then holy crap it's like trying to fight Trakanon in your underwear. The only folks clearing TSO raid zones are in avatar-killing guilds. So for established raiders with a mixture of Kunark, SoH, and TSO x4 raid gear (with perhaps some void shard legendary jewelry to fill in gaps), I see the x2 raid zone as an opportunity to farm some nice set pieces to allow their raid forces to get further in the x4 raid zones. After all, each piece of T3 fabled (x2) armor has as much Critical Mitigation as the whole T2 legendary set. Separately, I see the x2 raid zone and T3 void shard armor as a great progression for folks who have only ever grouped in TSO and Kunark, or maybe dabbled with raiding but just have not acquired sufficient gear to tackle any but the easiest TSO raid targets.

I do sympathize with those folks who have cleared VP, not geared up as much as they'd hoped in x4 TSO, and now have to go back and farm shards to get the T3. But I also do not believe that these folks will really switch entirely to the T3 stuff. I think it is more likely that these folks will run the new x2 raid zone and if a pattern drops, then they will farm enough shards to make that one item. Viewed this way, it is not an all-in-one imposition for each person to farm 200 shards, more like they have to stop and farm ~25-40 to fulfill a pattern that they've acquired.

Again, I just don't see raid guilds who are trying to make it through the TSO x4 raid zones (of which there are now 4, plus Zarrakon) completely stopping their T4 progression and focusing entirely on getting fully decked out in T3. More likely they'll dip into the x2 to get a couple of pieces that will help them survive in T4.

Tell me if I am wrong about these three separate groups of players.

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Old 03-11-2009, 12:11 AM   #7
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feldon30 wrote:

Tell me if I am wrong about these three separate groups of players.

I'd say your about spot on, I just don't see what it has to do with the 7 piece bonus.

Anyone able to form a raid to clear this zone, and by extention able to get the full set, is also able to take 2 groups of players into Tomb of the Mad Crusader and kill the first 2 names. The forearm from the TSO set is good enough, in almost all cases, to warrent breaking up the T3 7 piece set bonus.

To me, this makes the 7 piece set bonus pointless.

IMO a bonus for wearing a full set of the same gear should be good eough to make people have to put thought into breaking that set up with 2 pieces of the next upgrade in progression. This means that someone with a full set of T3 armour should have to put some thought into breaking up that set with 2 pieces of TSO set gear (which will include the 2 piece set bonus).

With the way the sets are on test, that couldn't be further from the truth.

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Old 03-11-2009, 11:29 AM   #8
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I feel that the change on the 7 set bonus was unwarranted since no-one actually asked for that change to be made. The 7 set bonus is very lack-luster right now, and none of the classes will give up those 2 additional slots for it, when there are many more items out there that can give the effects in question or more.

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Old 03-11-2009, 11:47 AM   #9
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You'd have to convince enchanters to wear more than 1 or 2 pieces of the set in order to even begin to convince them that wearing all 7 is worthwhile. Nothing like being nerfed through bad itemization. Really it all comes down to incentive. As it stands now, there is no incentive whatsoever to wear 7 pieces for any class.
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Old 03-11-2009, 11:49 AM   #10
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Freliant wrote:

I feel that the change on the 7 set bonus was unwarranted since no-one actually asked for that change to be made. The 7 set bonus is very lack-luster right now, and none of the classes will give up those 2 additional slots for it, when there are many more items out there that can give the effects in question or more.

Let me first say I agree with Nooani.  For set bonuses to be relevant you should need to think "do I really want to put on this piece or that from the next tier and lose this?"  That is part of progression.

As for "no one asked for it" well yeah some people did.  People that are already clearing the TSO raid zones have killed an Avatar or two asked for it.  They were afraid that those who were not doing content as hard as theirs could get gear that was almost as good.  They feel (not saying right or wrong) that since they are killing things no one else can that the rewards they get should be leaps and bounds above that which people get for tackling easier content.  The problem is when you add better stuff without a matching level cap rise this is almost impossible.  The only way to placate this feeling is to have the lower stuff meh or to have their stuff so high that mudflation is exaggerated, especially when they have to replace the gear with a level cap.

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Old 03-11-2009, 11:54 AM   #11
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[email protected] wrote:

You'd have to convince enchanters to wear more than 1 or 2 pieces of the set in order to even begin to convince them that wearing all 7 is worthwhile. Nothing like being nerfed through bad itemization. Really it all comes down to incentive. As it stands now, there is no incentive whatsoever to wear 7 pieces for any class.

Let me say I 100% aggree with that sentiment, but it is really deserving of it's own thread.

I sincerely challenge you or another enchanter main to start a thread about the itemization of the pieces with some suggested changes based upon previous more desirable itemization.

I 100% concur that bonuses to subjugation lines on fabled / raid gear is pointless.  Either remove the immunity to subjugation controls from epic mobs (not going to happen) or give enchanters itemization that doesn't include subjugation effects.

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Old 03-11-2009, 01:41 PM   #12
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The devs are going to be nerfing all procs in GU 52 because +base damage is an OP effect that they keep putting on gear. The 7 set bonus never should have existed based on the devs current 'vision' of the game.

My opinion however is just add all sorts of +base damge and all sorts of other tricks cause who cares the mechanics on a whole are so screwy and change every 1-2 months in minor ways and in major ways every 12 months. At the 5 year mark my take on the game is just give us players a God mode with gear that we can gain +200% base damage +5k to CA/Spell/Heal + 400% to all crits +200% Double Attack/ Quad Attack +500% Flurry +500 AE attack +200%Spell DA/QA.

Who cares if they add any of that? well just want more and diffrent gear and the mobs will all hit like mac trucks and 3 trillion HP as level 80/// solo mobs who will quad attack root and nuke us for 99.999999999% of our HP.

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Old 03-11-2009, 03:03 PM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

The devs are going to be nerfing all procs in GU 52 because +base damage is an OP effect that they keep putting on gear. The 7 set bonus never should have existed based on the devs current 'vision' of the game. 

Procs are being changed to not be affected by damage increasers... that is all, and that has nothing to do with the 7 set bonus. Each archtype had their own unique effect to their classes, which initially was something to look forward to, but right now, people look at the 7 set bonus and just go "meh". That should NEVER be the case on such an accomplishment. I can see saying "meh" on the 2 piece,  but on the 7 piece completed set? Not at all.

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Old 03-12-2009, 01:22 PM   #14
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I know for the fighter class that most people won't even bother with the 7 set bonus.  Taking 7 pieces means you are taking sacrifices in individual pieces in order to get a set bonus that is better as a whole.  I hope this is changed by the time it goes live.  The brawlers were definitely hit the hardest, but even the T3 plate pieces overall are uninspired.  If a 7 piece bonus is going to be garbage, why even offer it?  Why not just make the individual pieces a little better and remove the set bonuses if that is the case.

Personally I want the set bonuses and the original brawler set in my opinion is the way it should be.  The way it is now is just a slap in the face to those people waiting for a real set.

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Old 03-12-2009, 01:36 PM   #15
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Freliant wrote:

Procs are being changed to not be affected by damage increasers...

Uhm, this change was actually removed.

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Old 03-12-2009, 02:25 PM   #16
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Pinski wrote:

Freliant wrote:

Procs are being changed to not be affected by damage increasers...

Uhm, this change was actually removed.

I thought it was just postponed to some degree? 

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Old 03-17-2009, 12:19 PM   #17
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No one else is interested in getting a better effect placed on the T3 Void armor set 7 piece? Its a shame that it will go live this way because of lack of interest...

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Old 03-17-2009, 04:25 PM   #18
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I would definitely like to see a nice 7 set piece bonus added.

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Old 03-17-2009, 05:34 PM   #19
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Orthureon wrote:

I would definitely like to see a nice 7 set piece bonus added.

I would like to see the enchanter set to be worth wearing to begin with SMILEY

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Old 03-17-2009, 05:50 PM   #20
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I sincerely doubt that they'd come anywhere close to putting a 7 set bonus on that would convince people not to chop up the set an wear dark mail gauntlets at the very least. They seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding that a set bonus restricts options and so the payoff for having those options removed for you needs to be greater than the sum available from having those same options applied elsewhere. All it takes is one garbage item to ruin the viability of a 7 set bonus unless that bonus is phenomenal. Let's take gloves for example, what effect are you going to see that replaces the worthwhileness of equipping Dark Mail Gauntlets for a mage?
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:13 AM   #21
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don't forget that any upgrade to the t3/x2 set directly needs an upgrade to the x4 raidset - which isn't that easy. so before asking for more and more in the casual fields - don't forget soe can't upscale the high end raidgear into the sky. and anyone thinking that gear from grp/x2 zones should be in the same league as x4 raidgear....

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Old 03-18-2009, 11:11 AM   #22
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Burnout wrote:

don't forget that any upgrade to the t3/x2 set directly needs an upgrade to the x4 raidset - which isn't that easy. so before asking for more and more in the casual fields - don't forget soe can't upscale the high end raidgear into the sky. and anyone thinking that gear from grp/x2 zones should be in the same league as x4 raidgear....

no, because the x4 set already has better stats, and 2 focus effects as well as having 3 really powerful set bonuses. That is a total of 5 different bonuses.

All I am asking is that we get a single "good" set bonus for getting all 7 pieces. As is stands now, no one will want to wear the 7 piece bonus because they will get a much better upgrade from just replacing 2 of othe pieces for other stuff.

If you have all 7 pieces of the T3 gear, and all 7 pieces of the T4 gear, guess who has WAY better survivability and bonuses?

Anyone want to draw whole set comparisons of what it seen on test currently. Start with the Mage or Brawler set.

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Old 03-18-2009, 02:42 PM   #23
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Freliant wrote:

If you have all 7 pieces of the T3 gear, and all 7 pieces of the T4 gear, guess which set has WAY better bonuses?

If you are an enchanter (particularly a coercer), this is a trick question, since the answer is "neither".  You're better off wearing what you had pre-TSO augmented by stuff from GROUP content.

...not to hijack your thread or anything...

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Old 03-18-2009, 06:38 PM   #24
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Freliant wrote:

Burnout wrote:

don't forget that any upgrade to the t3/x2 set directly needs an upgrade to the x4 raidset - which isn't that easy. so before asking for more and more in the casual fields - don't forget soe can't upscale the high end raidgear into the sky. and anyone thinking that gear from grp/x2 zones should be in the same league as x4 raidgear....

no, because the x4 set already has better stats, and 2 focus effects as well as having 3 really powerful set bonuses. That is a total of 5 different bonuses.

All I am asking is that we get a single "good" set bonus for getting all 7 pieces. As is stands now, no one will want to wear the 7 piece bonus because they will get a much better upgrade from just replacing 2 of othe pieces for other stuff.

If you have all 7 pieces of the T3 gear, and all 7 pieces of the T4 gear, guess who has WAY better survivability and bonuses?

Anyone want to draw whole set comparisons of what it seen on test currently. Start with the Mage or Brawler set.

         You cant generalize things like it has two focus effects. Why, because some of them are not worthy mentioned. As an example my class BP. The T3 Predator BP is dps wise better than my T4 Ranger BP. Secondary if you give the T3 Set a Set Bonus you would need to give the T4 Set also a 7 - Set - Bonus.

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Old 03-18-2009, 06:47 PM   #25
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Noob1974 wrote:

Freliant wrote:

Burnout wrote:

don't forget that any upgrade to the t3/x2 set directly needs an upgrade to the x4 raidset - which isn't that easy. so before asking for more and more in the casual fields - don't forget soe can't upscale the high end raidgear into the sky. and anyone thinking that gear from grp/x2 zones should be in the same league as x4 raidgear....

no, because the x4 set already has better stats, and 2 focus effects as well as having 3 really powerful set bonuses. That is a total of 5 different bonuses.

All I am asking is that we get a single "good" set bonus for getting all 7 pieces. As is stands now, no one will want to wear the 7 piece bonus because they will get a much better upgrade from just replacing 2 of othe pieces for other stuff.

If you have all 7 pieces of the T3 gear, and all 7 pieces of the T4 gear, guess who has WAY better survivability and bonuses?

Anyone want to draw whole set comparisons of what it seen on test currently. Start with the Mage or Brawler set.

         You cant generalize things like it has two focus effects. Why, because some of them are not worthy mentioned. As an example my class BP. The T3 Predator BP is dps wise better than my T4 Ranger BP. Secondary if you give the T3 Set a Set Bonus you would need to give the T4 Set also a 7 - Set - Bonus.

Notice I never said "individual piece" bonus. Get all 7 pieces of the T4 set and say: +250sta +500STR, +150 Agri +3000 HP, +2000 Power, 4000 Mitigation, Ability 1, Ability 2, Ability 3, ability 4 blah blah

Once you do that, compare it to the T3 set, and see if its equiparable. We are looking at the end result here, not the individual pieces, because even if one or 2 of the pieces are crappy, when the whole set is completed, it might paint a completely different story.

Know what, going to Test_Copy if still available and making some classes to try to make this comparison... or maybe with my chars on test...

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