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Old 10-17-2018, 06:33 PM   #61
Marranda

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I did the beta, on a t2 heroic zone and NO shaman cant solo heal it at all. My defiler is in T4 raid gear has the ethereal chest and shoulders. Has the 3 set rings and ear. I am MT healer, and yet couldn't even heal the 1st mob on beta. If this is gonna be how it is for shaman, it makes me want to cry. I get tweaking classes. But I also agree that most healers where able to solo heal a group in T4 raids, this past expac. So to nerf shaman this badly is really upsetting. I don't mind adjustments but to make us useless, makes me sad. So please don't make us have to change mains after years of playing the class we love.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:26 PM   #62
Earar

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already for progression u usually needed 2 healers in many fights. Not all but many
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:33 PM   #63
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thats what i said.......shamans wont heal solo anymore.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:35 PM   #64
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I hope they change that , i dont want tons of healers to quit cause they cant heal a heroic anymore.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:47 PM   #65
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Most of the druids I know stuck it out in KA/PoP. We'll see if Shaman have the same intestinal fortitude.
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:22 PM   #66
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PoP was much kinder to druids the KA. PoP wasn't that bad for wardens, at least, in heroics.
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:58 AM   #67
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Heroics were mostly fine but there were several raid fights where the surge damage was quickly more than the average raider's HP.
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Old 10-18-2018, 02:00 AM   #68
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True.. but that's not just a KA/PoP thing. There have always been raid fights that were 'wards or go home'
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:17 AM   #69
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So far as I know, the heroic instances aren't yet available in Beta.
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Old 10-18-2018, 08:45 AM   #70
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I was assuming that (s)he meant they tried a T2 PoP heroic to test out healing changes with the new xpac in lieu of CD heroics not being open.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:26 AM   #71
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but if they expect to have 2 heals per group in raid ... then it's logical some fights were hard to solo heal


though U still need a warder. Good thing now .. more warders : 2 shamans, templars and wardens. Just don't group a fury and inquisitor together I guess
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Old 10-18-2018, 12:10 PM   #72
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Everyone always complains about shaman healing. Sure the way raid fights were set up made warding essential to tanks. We raided with 2 defilers 2 furies (or 1 fury 1 warden) and 1 templar most of the time. And sure I've done my share of solo healing in raids. But soloing healing as a shaman was/is very difficult as soon as any substantial **** hits the fan. You are fine until real healing is necessary and then it all falls apart no matter how many wards/heals you cast to try and stabalise things. I consider myself a fairly decent defiler. After testing through various zones that I had no trouble with in PoP I can admit that dps is down about 20% but healing .. oh boy it's a disaster.

Everyone always says defilers are at the top of the dps parse. BUT every ounce of my dps is almost always Ascensions. When I check through the raid parse every week to see what is going on I see a ton of healers hardly casting one ascension spell and then I get told I'm OP on dps. If they did the same thing they too would have a parse. Our raid fury constantly out dps's me. Furies will always out dps me if they are played right simply because they have both ascensions and professional spells that do real dmg. They are also T3 not T4 so they should be doing more dps. I don't have any professional spells that register on my parse although I cast dots constantly to trigger procs on wards.

What I don't understand is so you want 2 healers per raid group now but you're also decreasing all the top dps. So we lose raid spots to healers AND we lose overall dps per raider. I can't understand where this is all going and why especially at a time where most healing was actually becoming more balanced than ever in PoP except in my opinion for Inquisitors, Mystics and Channelers.

AND I wish I could destroy heal parses. They have and never will show the true picture of what each different healer brings to a raid. And yes I'm sorry this discussion is biased toward raiding but I live to raid.

P.s. For testing purposes I'm in T3 gear and all my lvl 10 to 15 ascension spells are ancient. My 10 to 15 ascensions are GM'd.
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:27 PM   #73
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I remember back in the day the Warden was a very powerful healer class. At the time AGI determined our power. Then the first of many changes occurred. Since then, wardens have constantly been stomped on by dev's wearing giant nerf boots. Our key class skill - Speed of the Wolf was given to everyone else. Wardens were never really a strong DPS class since that is not our function. Wardens were placed into the MT group to keep the MT and secondary's alive up to the middle 80's. After that level no one had a need for a Warden, so getting into pugs became a problem..

Now there is a power problem and I have a solution. The Warden class weapon - Bite of the Wolf caused the Warden to be moved to the finger wiggler group because that weapon was a power feeder to all the classes that need huge amounts of power.

Since Wardens are able to shapeshift into a Wolf we were never given a class pet like so many others. Having a time limited use of four wolves is a joke we really don't like
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:51 PM   #74
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This Warden got into a lot of groups since I had the raid wide cure curse. Long recast time made timing key. Carry pots if the other healers are not curing. I'll bet they are and dots are happening far quicker than cures are able to be used in tough fights.

I remember when a bunch of people crossed over to Fury from Warden and they got into raids easier than a Warden. I suppose the shoe is on the other foot now.

I am never one to pay attention to a parser of any kind. I only target those I'm tasked with keeping alive unless the raid leader wants everyone to target the main opponent.
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Old 10-18-2018, 03:39 PM   #75
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Yes I beta tested heroic zones in the new zones! They do run beta testers thru the content before its open to all. To try to fix most bugs before its open to everyone. And as a defiler with the way I currently HEAL its impossible. I did not even have time to toss a debuff on mobs much less the time it takes to cast an ascension. I had to constantly cast wards and the FEW heals I have. I have never been one to worry about the heal parse, to me if our tank is alive and group, then we are doing Great! My worries aren't will I be Number 1 on heal parse, tbh who cares? Its keeping our group alive and dpsing as much as I can to contribute to the raid. With the current way they have defilers will not be able to do any dps, or debuffs if they want there tank and group to live. So my main concern isn't to be top of the heal parse. Heal parse, doesn't matter if your group is alive!
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:37 PM   #76
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The healing debuff in the heroic zones is pretty severe
I made a thread about it
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/chaotic-leech.586987/
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:30 AM   #77
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Okay class balance is coming, with the bleedthrough changes and the massive hit that causes shaman, what is in line to make up for the loss of healing potential of shaman? Defilers bring literally nothing outside of healing to the raid. They used to bring mana regen with maelstrom - we saw where that went.

Historically, I understood why defilers did not have much for utility. We were the best healers. Now with the bleedthrough changes and the essential invalidation of anything outside of our group ward, what are we going to get to make up for it?

Other classes (druids/clerics) had utility that they brought to the raid in the form of some type of utility. That helped to balance out the healing disparity between a defiler and those classes. That healing disparity is now gone. So, it stands to reason that defilers should get some kind of utility to make up for it. Hopefully we see something to make up for this.

As a side note to my channeler brethren - they really really need some kind of utility buff to the raid too...they bring even less than a defiler...
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:51 AM   #78
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Warden here. Solo healed today new heroic zones. It was not fun because i even couldnt scratch my nose. I had to constantly take my full attention on the group and nonstop heal. My group died often. On trash and names.
Mobs took endless long to kill. Mana drain was a pain. We will go tomorrow again to report more detailed.
Actually it is very unfriendly for ANY healer.
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Old 10-19-2018, 02:08 PM   #79
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In the solo zones I have noticed with my construct, that once it dies, I have to unbuff "font of power" and recast for my construct to get his normal health back. If you summon him in the fight, it has less than 1m health until you can recast font of power when combat is done. I don't know if this was an issue on the live servers, never seemed to loose a construct in the solo zones there. (This was 2 days ago, I haven't gone back into the zone to see if it was addressed)
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:08 PM   #80
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warden here ... i just put on 2 scaling earrings to get some resolve (rest is guk solo and drops from beta solos) and entered a heroic instance (rathe one) with zughrus merc

soloed a mob near entrance, had him down to 95% after 15 minutes or so and was full pwr and health still, went for a coffee
and he still hadnt killed me after 5 more minutes being afk (merc and epic2 pet were healing me) ... mob still on 95% ofc Wink
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Old 10-19-2018, 05:16 PM   #81
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You can't just tank and spank that mob. He's immune to damage while he's inside the circle of pillars. (as hinted to by one of his buffs)
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Old 10-20-2018, 02:20 AM   #82
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i do think mystics should have got a damage boost. now with bleed thru as crazy as it is, it would be nice to see something other than some utility to make that class more desirable to play.
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Old 10-20-2018, 03:31 AM   #83
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ok ran heroic today (Vegarlson-councils stronghold. Had a geared raid (mt) zerk, lock, dirge, necro, defiler, and mystic for group. I Found that my single target ward on tank with the debuff was at 240mil. But on the other healer and myself it was 12mil. And on the lock was 12mil. On everyone else it was 240mil. I did do a bug report but posting it here as well.

I am so overwhelmed at how low my actual heals are, with the wards being my main source of protection for the group in the past and now even the few heals that I have are so low they barely heal. On live my group heal, actually heals group, in this new content I had to cast it 4 times to get my health to full and have less HP in beta gear. I just don't see what fun they think it is to go backwards from where everyone was. Every class being so displaced. I just want to be able to heal my group and maybe have time to cast an ascension here and there? lol right now its spamming till my fingers hurt! And not really enjoying that at all its just Not much fun tbh!

On a brighter note I think the actual xpac is nice, the zones are long but they are all so different and I enjoy that. There seem to be a lot less bugs, which I like too.
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Old 10-20-2018, 07:03 AM   #84
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There was maybe a softer possible nerf to shamans than the bleedthrough change.
As it used to be during Tears of Veeshan, let wards only benefit from a reasonable portion of crit bonus pool, and get rid of any bleedthrough form...
My 2 cents.

Making ward stacking useless as you propose is completely negating the very existence of shamans, as many other healing classes now have a group ward and many other tools to keep people alive. Why would a group or raid invite a shaman if a warden or a templar can do the same job in a much more efficient way ?
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:33 AM   #85
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I don't say changes to ward are not necessary. 1Billion HP wards are insane. But adjusting their amount to more reasonable values would be a better solution IMHO.

This game has already too many mechanics. No need to add a new bleedthrough.

BTW: why inquisitors need 50% hp threshold to cast their ward, and why furies don't have one ?
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Old 10-20-2018, 09:41 AM   #86
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Furies do have 40 or 45% DR on pact of the cheeta... that's pretty beast.
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Old 10-20-2018, 02:02 PM   #87
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Furies get a static DR, A long with Cheetah, and they get a Proc ward that is actually pretty good, Furies are in a good spot mostly.
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:22 PM   #88
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Quote="Beyoncia, post: 6524997, member: 5933"]That is actually a great news, I'm sick of every heal (or even any benificial spell in Inquisitor case) being able to heal to maximum.
It is also funny to see all the complains from shamans. [/quote]


It was a beta test heroic group with proper stats of players that cleared all the content this xpac... there was something not right... it was either the buff package on the mob, or scaling issues, or spells are not working right. At 104M hps, she couldn't keep up with the heals..and she's solo healed some of the hardest raid content in the game. If a shaman has to have a 2nd healer to run heroic groups the shamans will quit and this is a problem and not great news at all. Even this past expansion I've cleared all the heroics groups with each heal type solo healing with the exception the of 1 event heroic no one ever wanted to run. So find a way to make other healers more enjoyable and desirable in raid -- less focus on shamans being nerfed into oblivion. Providing for balance is fine. Flavor of the xpac nerfing/buffing is not - too many have already quit over it and the game can't afford to lose anymore.
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:26 PM   #89
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So many shaman threatening to quit over not being able to faceroll solo heal content. Welcome to the other healers. They've all gone through cycles, your turn to struggle from the looks of it.
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Old 10-20-2018, 04:54 PM   #90
Marranda

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Honestly every healer in our guild can SOLO heal, all the current content and even t4 raids, so I guess we are all talking apples and oranges here! I as a shaman, am sick of all the complaints of top of heal parse! The most important thing, which is so over looked, IS YOUR group alive? every class offers something to the group, on heals or cures or debuffs etc so as a team we kill stuff not as a solo player! I am not asking to be TOP of the heal parse nor do I care! But I don't want to play a class were all I can do it spam spam spam nothing but heals to try to keep a heroic group alive? And btw even alt healers were able to solo heal all the current heroics. Sorry to sound so harsh but people that post stuff that have no clue what they are talking about annoy me greatly!
2nd they already nerfed the defilers even before the new xpac. Taking our powerfeed. One of the only things we had to offer to a group other than wards and heals! Lowering our wards. But I still enjoyed raiding and grouping regardless. And I am not saying not to nerf shaman, I am stating facts that every heal class should be balanced enough to solo heal heroics. Mostly because of the state of the game. So many players have already quit and the game isn't what it use to be. So to NEED 2 healers to run a heroic is just cray cray! Its hard enough to even find a tank! Much less 2 healers to run a zone.
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