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Old 09-08-2012, 11:23 AM   #1
Araxes

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So, as I was perusing google images looking for the launch-era orc models (thanks to another thread somewhere around these forums), I stumbled on some of the absolutely fantastic, and in some cases, drastically different-looking, pre-launch concept art and screenshots, at RPGfan.  They have a 7-page archive of screenshots, and another archive of artwork here:

http://www.rpgfan.com/pics/eq2/index.html

But what I found really cool was this piece of concept art for the ratonga, which I have somehow never seen before:

Some other really interesting shots:

There are a lot of other cool images.  It's been many years since I've seen some of them, and they brought back lots of memories!

And ttobey ... I still want a robe like that!

~ Ara

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Old 09-09-2012, 01:15 PM   #2
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Wow, haven't seen a bunch of these, neat!

Were these two boss encounters in OOLS that were never put in the game?  I've spent a lot of time in there and have never seen either of them.

And I can't picture what angle in Freeport this was shot.

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Old 09-09-2012, 01:52 PM   #3
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

And I can't picture what angle in Freeport this was shot.

That's because it's not Freeport SMILEY

The old Qeynos harbor... there was never a ship there, as far as I recall, but if you put a bell right on the corner there behind the ratonga it might look a touch more familiar.

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Old 09-09-2012, 02:01 PM   #4
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Amekoi wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

And I can't picture what angle in Freeport this was shot.

That's because it's not Freeport

The old Qeynos harbor... there was never a ship there, as far as I recall, but if you put a bell right on the corner there behind the ratonga it might look a touch more familiar.

Oooh, right, I can see that now.  And it looks like they didn't have that giant archway up either with the Antonia statue behind it.

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Old 09-09-2012, 08:03 PM   #5
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The following are what orcs should look like.

And check this dark elf! Looks so different from the curren non-SOGA model (though the hair and ears and body shape are the same)

Whatever happened to this beard for dwarves?

And, lastly, whatever happened to warpaint and scars for ogres (and, for that matter, the shoulderplates on that armor)?

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Old 09-10-2012, 09:15 AM   #6
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AND LOOK AT THE HUMAN FEMALE UP THERE!

Different body shape (better) than current, better face than currently achievable (and boy have I tried).

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Old 09-10-2012, 12:22 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

AND LOOK AT THE HUMAN FEMALE UP THERE!

Different body shape (better) than current, better face than currently achievable (and boy have I tried).

The body shape isn't any different. The face is, sort of. Are you sure you're not using SOGA in-game?

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Old 09-10-2012, 12:39 PM   #8
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It's CONCEPT art folks. Like the drawings you see when zoning. Check out the definition(s) of concept art and you should get an idea of why you cannot duplicate the, generally, one-off illustrations you see in that archive.

There are times I would love to duplicate my original EQLive barbarian yet I recognise that it is impossible with all the changes to EQLive. Games evolve, not always for the better it is true, yet players need to deal with the normal, expected evolution of gaming and move on.

/rant

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Old 09-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #9
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kelvmor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

AND LOOK AT THE HUMAN FEMALE UP THERE!

Different body shape (better) than current, better face than currently achievable (and boy have I tried).

The body shape isn't any different. The face is, sort of. Are you sure you're not using SOGA in-game?

Absolutely sure I'm not using SOGA. I really dislike the very thin limbs of the SOGA models. The waist & chest area look different to me.  Maybe it's the angle but she looks less...dumpy to put it bluntly (though the chest always has looked better in plate armor than most anything else.)

Heck maybe it's just how the armor fits the model that is better. With the belt on the armor sitting properly rather than low making it look like she has a muffin top. 

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Old 09-10-2012, 02:01 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

kelvmor wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

AND LOOK AT THE HUMAN FEMALE UP THERE!

Different body shape (better) than current, better face than currently achievable (and boy have I tried).

The body shape isn't any different. The face is, sort of. Are you sure you're not using SOGA in-game?

Absolutely sure I'm not using SOGA. I really dislike the very thin limbs of the SOGA models. The waist & chest area look different to me.  Maybe it's the angle but she looks less...dumpy to put it bluntly (though the chest always has looked better in plate armor than most anything else.)

Heck maybe it's just how the armor fits the model that is better. With the belt on the armor sitting properly rather than low making it look like she has a muffin top. 

Ah. Yeah, I agree with you, there. SOGA models just look really anorexic (sic). :

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Old 09-10-2012, 02:50 PM   #11
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Resstful wrote:

It's CONCEPT art folks. Like the drawings you see when zoning. Check out the definition(s) of concept art and you should get an idea of why you cannot duplicate the, generally, one-off illustrations you see in that archive.

There are times I would love to duplicate my original EQLive barbarian yet I recognise that it is impossible with all the changes to EQLive. Games evolve, not always for the better it is true, yet players need to deal with the normal, expected evolution of gaming and move on.

/rant

Actually, a lot of the images displayed above, are from in-game screenshots, not concept art. There is big differences between in-game screenshots, and concept art.Of course there will be some changes during early/alpha/beta stages. But one should rightfully wonder why some changes went backward, not forward. The adjustments to the human female form being one of the more notable.

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Old 09-10-2012, 06:07 PM   #12
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[email protected] wrote:

Resstful wrote:

It's CONCEPT art folks. Like the drawings you see when zoning. Check out the definition(s) of concept art and you should get an idea of why you cannot duplicate the, generally, one-off illustrations you see in that archive.

There are times I would love to duplicate my original EQLive barbarian yet I recognise that it is impossible with all the changes to EQLive. Games evolve, not always for the better it is true, yet players need to deal with the normal, expected evolution of gaming and move on.

/rant

Actually, a lot of the images displayed above, are from in-game screenshots, not concept art. There is big differences between in-game screenshots, and concept art.Of course there will be some changes during early/alpha/beta stages. But one should rightfully wonder why some changes went backward, not forward. The adjustments to the human female form being one of the more notable.

Ah. I believe one of the cited reasons for changes to models like that dark elf and that human woman was a high poly count. It was high enough to where it would cause problems even on SOE's own machines, so they had to lower it, which they did by changing the face structure.

As for the orcs, though, that model was still used until Desert of Flames when they replaced all of them (except for Emperor Fyst, the arena champion in DFC, and an orc named Vrell in the Thundering Steppes) with the Rujarkian model.

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Old 09-11-2012, 01:37 AM   #13
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I actually prefer the Halas version that Catkins did, they are less human and more orc-y.

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Old 09-11-2012, 02:19 AM   #14
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But it's just the original model, but white-blue and with bigger ears and tusks (and no snap-on armor like the leather-covered orc up there; they have their own varied "uniforms"). Admittedly, if you perhaps did a mount-riding illusion out of this one (See Picture Below), I'd be happy with that, too. But, mostly, I'd still prefer the orc in my avatar. <3 (And don't get me wrong, the Ry'Gorr model is just as orcy as the original model.)

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Old 09-11-2012, 03:29 PM   #15
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kelvmor wrote:

But it's just the original model, but white-blue and with bigger ears and tusks (and no snap-on armor like the leather-covered orc up there; they have their own varied "uniforms"). Admittedly, if you perhaps did a mount-riding illusion out of this one (See Picture Below), I'd be happy with that, too. But, mostly, I'd still prefer the orc in my avatar. <3 (And don't get me wrong, the Ry'Gorr model is just as orcy as the original model.)

You are correct sir!

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Old 09-11-2012, 06:03 PM   #16
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Wow, haven't seen a bunch of these, neat!

Were these two boss encounters in OOLS that were never put in the game?  I've spent a lot of time in there and have never seen either of them.

They look identical to any nightblood or shadowman you might find in OOLS, so I don't know how you could have spent any time there and not seen creatures just like them. They could just be any old trash mobs, but I suppose they could be the Creator and the nightbloods Bondur and Gorusk Flayfist, though they are in a different room on live.

Thanks for the pictures and link, OP, really nice to see. I miss the Isle of Refuge and the old orcs. On the whole, I much prefer the original design of the game to the current cartoony-ness (though I absolutely love the art of Sentinel's Fate and Withered Lands, so the new stuff can definitely be great too).

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Old 09-11-2012, 08:21 PM   #17
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Wow, haven't seen a bunch of these, neat!

Were these two boss encounters in OOLS that were never put in the game?  I've spent a lot of time in there and have never seen either of them.

They look identical to any nightblood or shadowman you might find in OOLS, so I don't know how you could have spent any time there and not seen creatures just like them. ...

Because in the room where those two screenshots are taken you will only ever find lamias and occasionally Borxx, Brixx and Braxx.

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Old 09-12-2012, 01:43 PM   #18
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I was also struck by how much better the human female looks in these examples. It's long been a gripe among players that they looked deformed with their odd mouths and ponderous watermelons. No matter how you tweak the model they are intrinsically fat and ugly. Other races aside, you'd think this is the one that should have been gotten right. After all it's the fantasy version of *us*!

Hope rises on the Next round...

(Most excellent Rat complete with stabbie and cheez!)

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Old 10-15-2012, 11:06 PM   #19
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Some of these pre-release alpha staged screenshots are nice (ogre war paint, unique deathfist orc outfit)....most of the others are well....*vomits* especially the ones in early Befa...Stormhold. Reminds me of early 90's rpg cutscenes for the pc.

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Added Raid Zone:

The Goldrush: Dwell into the depths of RED base to defeat the Heavy, a powerful foe that even the Nameless fears.

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Old 10-19-2012, 11:19 AM   #20
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I'm wishing I could put pictures of old and new female side by side now.  I'll have to wait until I get home.

I was wondering if one problem with doing humans is indeed that they're *us*.  We don't have a good idea what an elf or kerran is supposed to look like but we know EXACTLY what a human is supposed to look like.  So if anything on an elf is a bit off no one will know.  But if the slightest thing about the human model is off, it's glaringly obvious.

About retiring some models due to high poly count.  It's been 10 years now.  PCs are much more powerful and graphics cards are able to crunch polys much faster. 

If they still have some of those too-high poly count models around, could they put them back in-game now?

Just a thought.

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:46 PM   #21
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Gilasil wrote:

I'm wishing I could put pictures of old and new female side by side now.  I'll have to wait until I get home.

I was wondering if one problem with doing humans is indeed that they're *us*.  We don't have a good idea what an elf or kerran is supposed to look like but we know EXACTLY what a human is supposed to look like.  So if anything on an elf is a bit off no one will know.  But if the slightest thing about the human model is off, it's glaringly obvious.

About retiring some models due to high poly count.  It's been 10 years now.  PCs are much more powerful and graphics cards are able to crunch polys much faster. 

If they still have some of those too-high poly count models around, could they put them back in-game now?

Just a thought.

No. When this game was designed, it was highly believed at the time that technology would evolve so that computers have incredibly powerful single CPUs. Instead, we have multiple core systems. For many of these systems, EQ2 as-is is still laggy and hard to run on anything above balanced. All but the most powerful of machines, like Alienware or good home-built systems, can run it on extreme with a good frame rate.

So, now imagine we replace all the models with the high-poly ones of pre-Alpha, when the game was still in development from 2002 and 2003. Those computers that already have a hard time running the game will suddenly have an extra load of polys to render. That, and I doubt they even still have them around.

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Old 10-19-2012, 12:58 PM   #22
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kelvmor wrote:

No. When this game was designed, it was highly believed at the time that technology would evolve so that computers have incredibly powerful single CPUs. Instead, we have multiple core systems. For many of these systems, EQ2 as-is is still laggy and hard to run on anything above balanced. All but the most powerful of machines, like Alienware or good home-built systems, can run it on extreme with a good frame rate.

So, now imagine we replace all the models with the high-poly ones of pre-Alpha, when the game was still in development from 2002 and 2003. Those computers that already have a hard time running the game will suddenly have an extra load of polys to render. That, and I doubt they even still have them around.

Not if the high poly models are selectable in options and default to off so if they unlocked them for players to use low end systems wouldn't be affected. its a win-win for low and high spec machines.

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Old 10-19-2012, 04:42 PM   #23
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kelvmor wrote:

Gilasil wrote:

I'm wishing I could put pictures of old and new female side by side now.  I'll have to wait until I get home.

I was wondering if one problem with doing humans is indeed that they're *us*.  We don't have a good idea what an elf or kerran is supposed to look like but we know EXACTLY what a human is supposed to look like.  So if anything on an elf is a bit off no one will know.  But if the slightest thing about the human model is off, it's glaringly obvious.

About retiring some models due to high poly count.  It's been 10 years now.  PCs are much more powerful and graphics cards are able to crunch polys much faster. 

If they still have some of those too-high poly count models around, could they put them back in-game now?

Just a thought.

No. When this game was designed, it was highly believed at the time that technology would evolve so that computers have incredibly powerful single CPUs. Instead, we have multiple core systems. For many of these systems, EQ2 as-is is still laggy and hard to run on anything above balanced. All but the most powerful of machines, like Alienware or good home-built systems, can run it on extreme with a good frame rate.

So, now imagine we replace all the models with the high-poly ones of pre-Alpha, when the game was still in development from 2002 and 2003. Those computers that already have a hard time running the game will suddenly have an extra load of polys to render. That, and I doubt they even still have them around.

That would be the case if the models were being rasterized in the CPU.  I would really really hope that's not the case.  That job is highly parallizeable and -- in modern or even not so modern GPUs -- highly parallized.  The number of polys really has more to do with the GPU.  The clock speed of the CPU doesn't really have a lot to do with it.

The power of graphics cards has exploded over the last few years.  Go to the nVidia website and look at the number of cores in their last few generations of GPUs.  Even cheap cards have some serious power nowadays.

When EQ2 released I think pretty much the state of the art graphics card was the 7600.  That fell off the back end years ago.  Even a low end card has more power then that.

However, I do agree that high res models probably should be offered as an option and not just switched in.  there's probably people running EQ2 on 8 year old machines.

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