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Old 10-23-2012, 04:31 PM   #1
Terrogaunt

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This thread is being stickied to help with players who don't seem to understand the changes (and to prevent the multiple threads being created, which lead to having a different set of information when it comes from two different places).

So, here's the details:

Group EXP Mult changes

Our multiplication goes down based on how many members are in a group. This is how it currently works and will continue to work. 

When you're able to get yourself onto the hatelist (there are a plethora of ways to achieve this), you will earn yourself the amount of exp that you would have recieved in a group of Yourself + however many mercs are in the group.

This means: Group of 6 ( 4 players, 2 mercs ). The exp for participation will be that of a 3-person group instead of a 6.

If you DON'T get onto the hatelist, not a single thing will change and you will recieve the same awesome experience that you've known for the entire time before this change.

Encounter Bonus changes

Encounter bonus is a seperate bit of experience that you get after killing all of the members of a linked encounter. This exp is not influenced by the amount of party members in your group. 

Before, we were giving this to every player in the group regardless of participation. This is the only change that might get you less experience. 

Encounter bonus will only be rewarded to players who are:

-On the hate list

-Have mobs conning higher than green

-Are not mentored

I've seen the mistake made before, so I'd like to clarify. Encounter bonus is NOT the bonuses multiplied to your raw exp amount. Having veteran bonus, vitality bonus, exp potion bonus, etc will still go into effect.

If you have questions or feedback, please keep it in this thread.

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Old 10-23-2012, 05:00 PM   #2
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When you say "Are not mentored", is that referring to players who are getting mentored or the players doing the mentoring?

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Old 10-23-2012, 05:24 PM   #3
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Domyr Farseeker wrote:

When you say "Are not mentored", is that referring to players who are getting mentored or the players doing the mentoring?

This refers to the player who's actual level doesn't match his current level. The player who used /mentor and /unmentor.

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Old 10-23-2012, 05:35 PM   #4
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Encounter Bonus changes

Encounter bonus is a seperate bit of experience that you get after killing all of the members of a linked encounter. This exp is not influenced by the amount of party members in your group. 

Before, we were giving this to every player in the group regardless of participation. This is the only change that might get you less experience. 

Encounter bonus will only be rewarded to players who are:

-On the hate list

-Have mobs conning higher than green

-Are not mentored

Bye-bye super-fast powerleveling. I, for one, am actually ok with this...might be a bit more pvp on the way up. SMILEY Hopefully.

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Old 10-23-2012, 05:42 PM   #5
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Domyr Farseeker wrote:

When you say "Are not mentored", is that referring to players who are getting mentored or the players doing the mentoring?

This refers to the player who's actual level doesn't match his current level. The player who used /mentor and /unmentor.

I sure hope you guys are going to be boosting quest exp astronomically then for the higher levels. Because at the moment, it's abysmal. I don't know one single person who actually QUESTED to go from 90-92

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Old 10-23-2012, 06:33 PM   #6
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Terrogaunt wrote:

Domyr Farseeker wrote:

When you say "Are not mentored", is that referring to players who are getting mentored or the players doing the mentoring?

This refers to the player who's actual level doesn't match his current level. The player who used /mentor and /unmentor.

I sure hope you guys are going to be boosting quest exp astronomically then for the higher levels. Because at the moment, it's abysmal. I don't know one single person who actually QUESTED to go from 90-92

I went through the WL questline on 2 of my now 92 toons and then started teh access quest with both my 1st toon did the SS solo missions as well to get to 92 she was the one I used to get all the tradeskill apprentices, my 2nd toon I ended up going to EQ adn grinding to finish off her run to 92 quests just werent giving enough XP my 3rd toon well lets just say I haven't finished WL quest on her yet and she still got to 92 although I was talking her through her ER at the time.

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:56 PM   #7
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Encounter Bonus changes

Encounter bonus is a seperate bit of experience that you get after killing all of the members of a linked encounter. This exp is not influenced by the amount of party members in your group. 

Before, we were giving this to every player in the group regardless of participation. This is the only change that might get you less experience. 

Encounter bonus will only be rewarded to players who are:

-On the hate list

-Have mobs conning higher than green

-Are not mentored

I've seen the mistake made before, so I'd like to clarify. Encounter bonus is NOT the bonuses multiplied to your raw exp amount. Having veteran bonus, vitality bonus, exp potion bonus, etc will still go into effect.

If you have questions or feedback, please keep it in this thread.

THIS is the stupid part of the changes, in my opinion. The encounter bonuses are more than 50% of the experience when you're chain-killing. Having someone who can one-shot the mobs, even when they con yellow or orange, will mean that the other members of the group will be losing HUGE chunks of experience. Mentoring to grind out AA's is no longer an option either, as you lose 50-60% of the experience you used to get due to being mentored. The time my husband spends helping to level my lower level toons, or my sons toons, is now going to take twice as long, even if I'm there trying to help, as he kills things so fast they might not even be in range of my spells/ca's before they die.

I don't understand this change. What is the point? Why is this being added now after 8 years of working fine? Is it due to an ACCUTELY small percent of people who find PLing to be an exploit? (its not, btw) Is it due to afk mercenary leveling? Can you please explain the POINT of the changes, not just what is being changed? Because honestly if this is meant to fix AFK merc leveling, it is a BAD change.

All in all, this change now punishes people for mentoring. Mentoring is supposed to be a system put in place to help, not hurt people. And all this change does is hurt people =(

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Old 10-23-2012, 08:04 PM   #8
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

 I don't know one single person who actually QUESTED to go from 90-92

Now you know one.

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Old 10-23-2012, 09:11 PM   #9
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Folks, during the mechanics panel it was stated that they were going to be testing this during beta.  So instead of speculating, doing math, and generally complaining, copy over and TEST IT.  You could literally go run the same content on Live and Beta with exactly the same toons and get a really good evaluation of what's happening and if it's broken or not.

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Old 10-23-2012, 09:43 PM   #10
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Encounter bonus will only be rewarded to players who are:

-On the hate list

-Have mobs conning higher than green

-Are not mentored

^^^ That is in direct conflict with this vvv

Terrogaunt wrote:

If you DON'T get onto the hatelist, not a single thing will change and you will recieve the same awesome experience that you've known for the entire time before this change.

Seems a single thing does change, about half of the xp you were getting is no longer there.

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Old 10-23-2012, 09:44 PM   #11
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Calthine wrote:

Folks, during the mechanics panel it was stated that they were going to be testing this during beta.  So instead of speculating, doing math, and generally complaining, copy over and TEST IT.  You could literally go run the same content on Live and Beta with exactly the same toons and get a really good evaluation of what's happening and if it's broken or not.

Not really needed, I can read their change and I can do math.

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Old 10-23-2012, 09:46 PM   #12
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[email protected]_old wrote:

I don't understand this change. What is the point? Why is this being added now after 8 years of working fine? Is it due to an ACCUTELY small percent of people who find PLing to be an exploit? (its not, btw) Is it due to afk mercenary leveling? Can you please explain the POINT of the changes, not just what is being changed? Because honestly if this is meant to fix AFK merc leveling, it is a BAD change.

I to would very much like to hear the justification for the change.

I'm familiar with problems in the legacy xp system, but these changes don't appear to be fixing many of the problems and are only adding more.

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Old 10-23-2012, 10:01 PM   #13
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As someone who has been stuck powerlevelling toons because grouping was so slow (and there are so few people playing the game----due to powerlevelling), I am giving this an A++++

PLAY THE FREAKING GAME!

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Old 10-23-2012, 10:16 PM   #14
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Tekadeo wrote:

As someone who has been stuck powerlevelling toons because grouping was so slow (and there are so few people playing the game----due to powerlevelling), I am giving this an A++++

PLAY THE FREAKING GAME!

People who choose to level to 90, and mentor down to redo content for AA are playing the freaking game. But now they'll lose 50-60% of their experience when mentored for no conceiveable reason at all.

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Old 10-23-2012, 11:31 PM   #15
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

As someone who has been stuck powerlevelling toons because grouping was so slow (and there are so few people playing the game----due to powerlevelling), I am giving this an A++++

PLAY THE FREAKING GAME!

People who choose to level to 90, and mentor down to redo content for AA are playing the freaking game. But now they'll lose 50-60% of their experience when mentored for no conceiveable reason at all.

Don't play dumb.  You will lose 50-60% of your xp BECAUSE YOU CAN DO IT 300% FASTER. 

Let's try to address this as grown ups, please.

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Old 10-23-2012, 11:59 PM   #16
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Tekadeo wrote:

As someone who has been stuck powerlevelling toons because grouping was so slow (and there are so few people playing the game----due to powerlevelling), I am giving this an A++++

PLAY THE FREAKING GAME!

Out of curiosity, why are you so enthused?  

If anyone is operating under the assumption that this will be a magic wand to fix the lack of sub 92 groups available, you're being awfully naive.  This is a beyond mature game at this point.  The subscriber base is the primary issue now.  The original content was never designed for the power of 92 characters with current gear.

This change would have been more useful about 6 years ago, but the nature of the game has changed now for better or worse.  I can guarantee you this will not have a net increase in the number of sub 92 groups or quality 92 players.

Twinking and PLing have been issues since the early days of EQ1 - you live with it as part of the MMO experience.  It is exacerbated not by a poor exp system but by a small player population.

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Old 10-24-2012, 12:02 AM   #17
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Calthine wrote:

Folks, during the mechanics panel it was stated that they were going to be testing this during beta.  So instead of speculating, doing math, and generally complaining, copy over and TEST IT.  You could literally go run the same content on Live and Beta with exactly the same toons and get a really good evaluation of what's happening and if it's broken or not.

Not really needed, I can read their change and I can do math.

I bet that when it goes live you'll complain it wasn't tested thoroughly enough, too.

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Old 10-24-2012, 12:14 AM   #18
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Torquer wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

As someone who has been stuck powerlevelling toons because grouping was so slow (and there are so few people playing the game----due to powerlevelling), I am giving this an A++++

PLAY THE FREAKING GAME!

Out of curiosity, why are you so enthused?  

If anyone is operating under the assumption that this will be a magic wand to fix the lack of sub 92 groups available, you're being awfully naive.  This is a beyond mature game at this point.  The subscriber base is the primary issue now.  The original content was never designed for the power of 92 characters with current gear.

This change would have been more useful about 6 years ago, but the nature of the game has changed now for better or worse.  I can guarantee you this will not have a net increase in the number of sub 92 groups or quality 92 players.

Twinking and PLing have been issues since the early days of EQ1 - you live with it as part of the MMO experience.  It is exacerbated not by a poor exp system but by a small player population.

Easy to call someone naive when really you don't know, but yes I think this will help grouping at lower levels.  I mean I'm a end-game guy too and guess what?  It gets repetitive.  Lots of people have taken to rolling toons and locking them to 89 and doing BG's to escape the redundancy of the end game.

Honestly something that would help this situation more would be a new reward system for completing lower level zones at level.

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Old 10-24-2012, 12:41 AM   #19
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Tekadeo wrote:

Torquer wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

As someone who has been stuck powerlevelling toons because grouping was so slow (and there are so few people playing the game----due to powerlevelling), I am giving this an A++++

PLAY THE FREAKING GAME!

Out of curiosity, why are you so enthused?  

If anyone is operating under the assumption that this will be a magic wand to fix the lack of sub 92 groups available, you're being awfully naive.  This is a beyond mature game at this point.  The subscriber base is the primary issue now.  The original content was never designed for the power of 92 characters with current gear.

This change would have been more useful about 6 years ago, but the nature of the game has changed now for better or worse.  I can guarantee you this will not have a net increase in the number of sub 92 groups or quality 92 players.

Twinking and PLing have been issues since the early days of EQ1 - you live with it as part of the MMO experience.  It is exacerbated not by a poor exp system but by a small player population.

Easy to call someone naive when really you don't know, but yes I think this will help grouping at lower levels.  I mean I'm a end-game guy too and guess what?  It gets repetitive.  Lots of people have taken to rolling toons and locking them to 89 and doing BG's to escape the redundancy of the end game.

Honestly something that would help this situation more would be a new reward system for completing lower level zones at level.

I didn't specifically say you were naive, but that the belief this would fundamentally change 1-89 gameplay is naive.  Remember we're talking about a game with a small population.  You can only do so much with a few hundred players on your server at any given time, many/most of which are already max or near max level.

I've been playing EQ2 off and on since launch, from pure solo stuff all the way through high end raiding guilds.  Any way you slice it, the reality of this game is that there are too few players, especially at low levels.  Throw in the huge disparity in power between what those levels were designed for and what characters are now capable of and you see why we are where we are.  A simple exp change (or even a complex one) can't make up for this.

Just as an example, in 4 hours of play time, my 92 Paladin with non raid mostly crafted gear was able to powerlevel my Mystic from 1 to 70 using only 55% exp pots and no vitality.  I can tell you that making it take 8 hours or 80 hours will not make me more likely to try to find a group, because those groups don't exist and aren't likely to in the future.

I agree with your point, though.  If you want to encourage grouping with live characters, offer incentives for that behavior rather than disincentives for the opposite.  All too often in this game the developers seem keen to socially engineer in a negative way, addressing one disparity by creating another.

I would also like to see the devs be a little more clear in what problem they are expressly trying to solve when offering these changes.  By not stating the actual goal of the change (beyond restating what it does and its effects), you're leaving your intentions open to interpretation and here on the Internet we'll all assume the worst.

To be honest I rather assume that EQ2 has become the testing ground for SOE's overall MMO ideas for upcoming games.  Test it here where it won't matter all that much and see how people react.  If it goes well, incorporate the mechanic into EQNext.  I could be way off base with that, but again we should all be clear on what the problems we're trying to solve are before we get solutions to problems that may not even exist or could be completely unsolvable.

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Old 10-24-2012, 01:10 AM   #20
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Tekadeo wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

As someone who has been stuck powerlevelling toons because grouping was so slow (and there are so few people playing the game----due to powerlevelling), I am giving this an A++++

PLAY THE FREAKING GAME!

People who choose to level to 90, and mentor down to redo content for AA are playing the freaking game. But now they'll lose 50-60% of their experience when mentored for no conceiveable reason at all.

Don't play dumb.  You will lose 50-60% of your xp BECAUSE YOU CAN DO IT 300% FASTER. 

Let's try to address this as grown ups, please.

You're going to speak to me like that, and have the cheek to tell me to address this as a grownup? You need to check yourself, sir. I spoke to you with respect and in no way insulted you, but you come in with blown up exaggerations about experience gains of mentored players and then have the nerve to imply I'm being childish. I'm sorry, but that is completely inappropriate.

I am firmly against a hard penaltly against people who mentor. It absolutely completely destroys the whole mentoring system by denying them the encounter bonus experience. It also removes the choice that MANY people make to race to 90, then mentor down and run low level instances for the AA. Yes, they'll still get experience, but they will lose out on 50-60% of the experience they could have gotten doing the same thing prior to this change. It will only make leveling take longer, as now everyone will be fighting over the lvl 85+ instances at lvl 90, instead of being able to mentor to another level and do other zones.

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Old 10-24-2012, 01:16 AM   #21
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Calthine wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

Not really needed, I can read their change and I can do math.

I bet that when it goes live you'll complain it wasn't tested thoroughly enough, too.

No, I'll complain that it was illy conceived and they didn't listen to feedback.

I don't need to log into test to factor out the bonus xp line from my logs and see the difference of removing it.

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Old 10-24-2012, 02:10 AM   #22
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There is no point in this change.

Even with this change, there's not enough new players coming into the game to form groups at the lower levels. And I play on freeport and when leveling a toon I'm LFG the entire time i'm solo questing up to 92. Most the time I'll sit lfg and queue'd for 8+ hours with no invites or groups (in any level range).

Just watch... this change is not going to suddenly cause lower level people to group up. Nor with this encourage 90+'s to mentor lower toons or newbies at all.

Lower level toons DONT group up with people their level, and its not because of the XP. Because the XP is actually decent.

This change wont encourage lower level grouping, the XP wasn't the problem in the first place. Why group up when I can just take any merc (they're OP) and solo all the group content and keep the loots for myself? You get a full group of lowbies together and dungeon crawl varsoon, kaladim, new tunaria, or anywhere, its actually good xp. So again, SOE needs to find the real root problem as to why newbies don't group up.

PL'ers dont PL more than 1 person at a time because the penalty.

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Old 10-24-2012, 02:49 AM   #23
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[email protected]_old wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

Tekadeo wrote:

As someone who has been stuck powerlevelling toons because grouping was so slow (and there are so few people playing the game----due to powerlevelling), I am giving this an A++++

PLAY THE FREAKING GAME!

People who choose to level to 90, and mentor down to redo content for AA are playing the freaking game. But now they'll lose 50-60% of their experience when mentored for no conceiveable reason at all.

Don't play dumb.  You will lose 50-60% of your xp BECAUSE YOU CAN DO IT 300% FASTER. 

Let's try to address this as grown ups, please.

You're going to speak to me like that, and have the cheek to tell me to address this as a grownup? You need to check yourself, sir. I spoke to you with respect and in no way insulted you, but you come in with blown up exaggerations about experience gains of mentored players and then have the nerve to imply I'm being childish. I'm sorry, but that is completely inappropriate.

I am firmly against a hard penaltly against people who mentor. It absolutely completely destroys the whole mentoring system by denying them the encounter bonus experience. It also removes the choice that MANY people make to race to 90, then mentor down and run low level instances for the AA. Yes, they'll still get experience, but they will lose out on 50-60% of the experience they could have gotten doing the same thing prior to this change. It will only make leveling take longer, as now everyone will be fighting over the lvl 85+ instances at lvl 90, instead of being able to mentor to another level and do other zones.

So sorry if I hurt your feelings but I stand by my statement.

There is no exaggeration about XP gains by mentored players; if anything I lowballed it.  A lvl 92 SK even in WL quest gear can kill 100 things faster than even a full group of non-mentors will kill 10.

The powerlevel/autofollow gameplan is bad for EQ2, and I'm glad SoE seems to agree.

If you want to race to 90 and then mentor down that's on you.  But if you are into making everythign easy mode then YES, you deserve a penalty for not doing it at level BECAUSE YOU CAN KILL IT FASTER and easier. 

Realize you can make up a lot of the losses up by having more people in your group.

So much complaining, so little thought.

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Old 10-24-2012, 09:06 AM   #24
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Mohee wrote:

There is no point in this change.

Even with this change, there's not enough new players coming into the game to form groups at the lower levels

Chicken-and-egg situation. There aren't enough people to group at low levels because people have tried the game and get bored with the newbie experience and then cannot find any groups until level 90 and move on to another game.

The EQ2 team has done a lot in the last year to help on this. They redid Darklight Woods, Qeynos, and Freeport, and did smaller tweaks to Kelethin. They are trying to make 1-30 a really smooth experience so people get hooked. And once people get to level 30, they need groups!!

And before you say nobody new is coming to the game have you seen how much advertising for EQ2 there is on the web out there? Turn off your ad blocker for 5 min and you will run into an EQ2 ad or two.

Mohee wrote:

Lower level toons DONT group up with people their level, and its not because of the XP. Because the XP is actually decent.

Lower level XP is decent *if you are solo*. Group up and your XP is cut in half, or by 3/4, or worse. The worst thing you can do right now with how XP is set up is group with people to level. The best thing you can do is have a level 92 character with 320 AA, raid gear, and so on mentor you and kill mobs a roomful at a time. This is extremely unhealty for the game.

Mohee wrote:

I play on freeport and when leveling a toon I'm LFG the entire time i'm solo questing up to 92. Most the time I'll sit lfg and queue'd for 8+ hours with no invites or groups (in any level range).

I started playing EQ2 in January 2007. Level 1-70 content was valid and people played it. The ENTIRE level range.

Then I gradually saw Quest XP and certain honeypot zones become the best way to get XP at the exclusion of all others. Instead of gradually boosting Group XP, we saw those honeypot zones nerfed one by one.

I really think people underestimate how cool this change is going to be. I am actually excited about (instead of dreading) leveling my mystic. If it goes right, I'll be able to group up in a different zone every night and get enough XP that I'll never dream of grinding in Palace of Awakened for 10 hours straight ever again.

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Old 10-24-2012, 10:02 AM   #25
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So, if i get stunned on a massive AE pull, I could loose a lot of XP because I never hit the mob?

Also in PQs it somewhat works this way, and my healers didn't get rewards because reactive didn't go off etc.

Sounds like you are punishing everyone because you are trying to prevent something that will happen anyway.  Min/maxers will just find the fastest way to goal x, and mere mortals will just be stuck wondering why they don't get XP in certain situations.

Also when will you be drawing in the extra people so groups will form again?  Until Heroic content can be completed by mere mortals in sub par gear, your just punishing other people.  (Mere mortals <> raiders on an 8th alt in whatever gear)

Also if someone 1 shots a mob, the rest are going to get a short stick.

If the reactive never goes off, or a warlock with long cast speed doesn't get a spell off.

Why put in gimmics?  Just let people play.  These gimmicks are more often than not the problem that puts people off.

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Old 10-24-2012, 10:41 AM   #26
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I see it coming, the powerlevling player just needs to stay a bit longer to do the same thing as before change, which leads to the fact, that the room or area he is crawling will be blocked longer then before oO

I mean, the easy way to force group, would be the removal of the penalty oO Not messing the hole system oX

Oh, well.... i use to powerlevel, as i seen the content before, several times oO so why the h..... i should be forced to do so.... to play like i should play, not as i like to play oO

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Old 10-24-2012, 11:15 AM   #27
Shotneedle

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I will power level faster after these changes.

Weeeee.

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Old 10-24-2012, 01:44 PM   #28
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feldon30 wrote:

I started playing EQ2 in January 2007. Level 1-70 content was valid and people played it. The ENTIRE level range.

Then I gradually saw Quest XP and certain honeypot zones become the best way to get XP at the exclusion of all others. Instead of gradually boosting Group XP, we saw those honeypot zones nerfed one by one.

I really think people underestimate how cool this change is going to be. I am actually excited about (instead of dreading) leveling my mystic. If it goes right, I'll be able to group up in a different zone every night and get enough XP that I'll never dream of grinding in Palace of Awakened for 10 hours straight ever again.

Again, if anyone is under the impression that this fix will bring back the glory days of EQ2 and create low level groups for you to level up in, you're dreaming.  I also wish EQ2 had the player population that it once had so these groups were plentiful, but its just not going to happen.  You have a game that is marching toward end of life with a small player population mostly concentrated at level 90+.  Those who are leveling are mostly leveling alts.  I'd love to see some statistics on the overall player population and at what level concentrations.

Have you been in some of the lower level zones recently?  You don't see anyone in there at an appropriate level that isn't being PLed.  After leveling 3 different toons from 1-92 in the past 4 months, I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen level appropriate solo and group players in zones under 90 that weren't being PLed by a 90+ character.

Again - what problem are we trying to solve here?  If the problem is that there aren't enough low level groups, create incentives for grouping that don't penalize others.  If the problem is that you don't want people blasting through low level content, increase the difficulty of that content or otherwise incentivize the desired player behavior.

SOE devs need to learn that you don't have to take from one to give to another to achieve the illusion of "balance."  This has been played out time and time again with class and other changes.  Inquisitors think Templars heal too well, so Inqs get a bonus while Templars get nerfed (hypothetical situation).  Incentivize low level grouping all you like, but don't penalize those people who are powerleveling in a completely legitimate way as has been done since Launch.  For many of us and for reasons not always under our control, it may be the only option we have.

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Old 10-24-2012, 01:48 PM   #29
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Our multiplication goes down based on how many members are in a group. This is how it currently works and will continue to work. 

Does this not divide the community and force them to clear zones with as few people as possible? You'd think the devs would want to encourage grouping, not hinder it.

Edit: Bad spelling sorry.

Anybody remember back in the day when we actually got a full group bonus? Why? Why was this removed? I'm sorry but I can't comprehend why a decision was made to remove that. Don't you want to encourage a community versus a bunch of individuals?

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Old 10-24-2012, 01:54 PM   #30
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The issue is, they totally failed to fix the problem.

The problem I layed out in my orriginal post that seemed to get the ball rolling on dev attention is this:

EQ2 provides incentive to not invite other people if your grinding XP.  After this change, if I invite other people the only thing that can possibly result is, the toon I'm trying to get XP for will get less xp.

Think about it, if its just me and my son's toon as my orriginal example, he will get full xp when he can hit a mob before I kill it, and he'll get legacy xp minus encounter bonus xp if he is unable to hit something before I kill it (about 50% of the time I think I one shot the encounter, so he gets no bonus around 50% of the time).

If I invite the other random people in zone, or my friends in guild who want to come along, under that 50% I estimate he doesn't make the hate list on, he would get the xp/N group member penalty cause he didn't make the hate list.

Net result, after this change, its still penalizing me for inviting more people if I'm mentoring down to help someone level.

So from my perspective, all this change is simply a giant swing and a miss.

Yes, it helps xp of people doing heroic content when no one in the group out gears that content.  Like contested SS.  A group going there who doesn't have a raid geared player in it will all get more XP with the new model.  But as soon as you bring a raid geared player (someone that out gears the content), mobs will die before everyone gets on their hate list.  The more people you bring that outgear the zone, the more xp will be fractured.

Penalizing groups cause someone outgears the content in my opinion isn't the right change to be making.

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