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Old 08-05-2012, 02:00 AM   #1
zehly

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This is bound to make people mad. Get me flamed. Maybe exiled.

I'm guilty of buying it. I can honestly say I've never sold it. I'm certainly no angel. In fact I believe strongly in the ways of Innoruuk. SMILEY

Is it fair to everyone to buy or sell loot rights? I can sell shinies, I can sell rares, I can sell crafted items. Should I be allowed to sell the spoils of a kill? Is this intentional?

It would seem not. After all, if we were meant to be able to "trade" the loot, then why is it HEIRLOOM or NO-TRADE? Certainly this mechanic doesn't exist just for the sake of existance (though, with SOE, it's debatable). If all loot were meant to go to the highest bidder (DKP or otherwise), why not just take away those tags? Why should someone who hasn't participated in the victory be rewarded with its spoils? To the victor go the spoils. Not to the guy who watches loot channel, groups once a week, and spends the rest of the time AFK in guild hall or crafting.

I hate losing rolls in NBG like everyone else. But if your armor represents your status, and status tends to represent your skill, does this mean then you can buy your skill?

I'm not in the position to demand a mechanic change, and if I were, it wouldn't be about loot rights, that's for darn sure.

But when I inspect someone, and see they have a Mythical (or Ethereal), should I think "wow, they got lucky" or "wow, they're filthy stinking rich."

Discuss.

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:23 AM   #2
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zehly wrote:

This is bound to make people mad. Get me flamed. Maybe exiled.

I'm guilty of buying it. I can honestly say I've never sold it. I'm certainly no angel. In fact I believe strongly in the ways of Innoruuk.

Is it fair to everyone to buy or sell loot rights? I can sell shinies, I can sell rares, I can sell crafted items. Should I be allowed to sell the spoils of a kill? Is this intentional?

It would seem not. After all, if we were meant to be able to "trade" the loot, then why is it HEIRLOOM or NO-TRADE? Certainly this mechanic doesn't exist just for the sake of existance (though, with SOE, it's debatable). If all loot were meant to go to the highest bidder (DKP or otherwise), why not just take away those tags? Why should someone who hasn't participated in the victory be rewarded with its spoils? To the victor go the spoils. Not to the guy who watches loot channel, groups once a week, and spends the rest of the time AFK in guild hall or crafting.

I hate losing rolls in NBG like everyone else. But if your armor represents your status, and status tends to represent your skill, does this mean then you can buy your skill?

I'm not in the position to demand a mechanic change, and if I were, it wouldn't be about loot rights, that's for darn sure.

But when I inspect someone, and see they have a Mythical (or Ethereal), should I think "wow, they got lucky" or "wow, they're filthy stinking rich."

Discuss.

This topic has already been beaten to death. Locking loot will not happen.It is equally as fair to commission craft an item for someone who does not have the recipe, as it is to sell the spoils of a kill. It is equally as fair to sell the spoils of clicking on a harvestable node, as it is to sell the spoils of a kill. Occurances of raid zone functionality not allowing it SLR (items were locked to those present), was quickly fixed to allow it.Heirloom allows for people to loot an item intended for one of their alts, without having to relog. The heirloom tag means the character that recieves the item, has to use it, and can not palm it off to a friend. It also means if you want to buy an heirloom item, you have to be on when it drops, versus occasionally checking the broker.It works exactly as intended. Changing the heirloom tags to become no-trade, would simply mean groups/raids have to do more alt swappnig. Locking loot to only the characters present, would penalize people who get sat for raids, or who swap to an alt for the better of the group/raid, with the intention of still obtaining loot for their primary character.This type of thread rears up every couple of months. This time around, it appears to be because someone got beaten to a kill in contested Skyshrine, and the loot that dropped was sold. Sorry, but SLR does not need to be removed.

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:39 AM   #3
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SLR works for everyone.  Disappointed with this content as there really isn't much heroic loot that people can't get for themselves that's worth buying.  I ran ToT and EoW a ton last content cause we were slr'ing all the stuff.  Was a lot of fun and all the crafters had somewhere to spend all their plats.

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:41 AM   #4
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[email protected] wrote:

This topic has already been beaten to death. Locking loot will not happen.

This type of thread rears up every couple of months. This time around, it appears to be because someone got beaten to a kill in contested Skyshrine, and the loot that dropped was sold. Sorry, but SLR does not need to be removed.

Negative. Haven't even played today. Didn't know the topic's been beaten to death though, as I'm not active on the forums. Nice try, though. I brought it up as a point of philosophical debate, nothing more.

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:46 AM   #5
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I would prefer to see things sellable (not no drop) versus SLR.

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:51 AM   #6
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zehly wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

This topic has already been beaten to death. Locking loot will not happen.

This type of thread rears up every couple of months. This time around, it appears to be because someone got beaten to a kill in contested Skyshrine, and the loot that dropped was sold. Sorry, but SLR does not need to be removed.

Negative. Haven't even played today. Didn't know the topic's been beaten to death though, as I'm not active on the forums. Nice try, though. I brought it up as a point of philosophical debate, nothing more.

So you are informing me that the quoted message below, was just an imaginary scenario, and did not actually happen? Because you posed the message below, today, on another thread. I read it as you were the victim of such, and simply connected the dots.

zehly wrote:

And it can be frustrating when you're going out in a group only to have a named ganked from your group by some over-geared plat farmer. Then see the exquisite he stole sell in loot channel. No, it's not necessarily about "he mad". I just rather kill that kind of thing with a group, though I understand the alure of farming and selling. 
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Old 08-05-2012, 10:32 AM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

zehly wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

This topic has already been beaten to death. Locking loot will not happen.

This type of thread rears up every couple of months. This time around, it appears to be because someone got beaten to a kill in contested Skyshrine, and the loot that dropped was sold. Sorry, but SLR does not need to be removed.

Negative. Haven't even played today. Didn't know the topic's been beaten to death though, as I'm not active on the forums. Nice try, though. I brought it up as a point of philosophical debate, nothing more.

So you are informing me that the quoted message below, was just an imaginary scenario, and did not actually happen? Because you posed the message below, today, on another thread. I read it as you were the victim of such, and simply connected the dots.

zehly wrote:

And it can be frustrating when you're going out in a group only to have a named ganked from your group by some over-geared plat farmer. Then see the exquisite he stole sell in loot channel. No, it's not necessarily about "he mad". I just rather kill that kind of thing with a group, though I understand the alure of farming and selling. 

Yes, a new thread gets started on this beaten down topic everytime someone feels they are wronged.  Doesn't matter what side you are on with this topic there is nothing left to say that hasn't been said a thousand different ways already. 

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Old 08-05-2012, 10:33 AM   #8
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More importantly I just noticed that the number of quests in my signature is showing as zero.  Now that's a problem, lol.

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Old 08-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #9
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For items that can be sold there is the broker, I believe that the Auction channel was created for items such as loot rights due to them not being able to be placed on the broker.

Saying that I do agree with the OP, I have sold many loot rights in my life on EQ2 and I think that its about time that players that cannot do the content should not have access to the rewards.

As of late the game has become that easy to get access to high end gear that can be sold. For example I have been duoing trash in the SSx4 raids for loot to sell rights to and to gear up my own toons because they are farming it in faction gear after all.

With the introduction of mini games I think the next step is to take players making profit from selling gear to SOE making real cash selling gear on the market place.

It is really sad because I do love this game but the direction it has been heading is not what I signed up for.

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Old 08-05-2012, 01:01 PM   #10
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has it been 2 -3 weeks already?

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Old 08-05-2012, 02:09 PM   #11
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[email protected]_old wrote:

It is really sad because I do love this game but the direction it has been heading is not what I signed up for.

Couldn't agree more.

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Old 08-05-2012, 03:22 PM   #12
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urgh, this topic again?

seriously , buying loots doesn't mean  they can't do the the content , unless its HM or PoW

1: (some or most ) players farm their plats via instance/raid chest , shinies ...etc , they spent their numorous hours then buyloots just to save times waiting for it to drop in their guild raid or old stuff they still want to farm . Time = Money

2. Even its HM or endgame stuff , i don't see why can't spend those plats on items from highend guilds when they don't need for their N alts . And  yet again Time = Money

3: For those that buy plats , its best to leave it to GM's

if you don't like SLR don't buy or sell , simple 

try not to banish other players option .

play it your way and let others play on theirs

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Old 08-05-2012, 04:45 PM   #13
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As a raider, I have no problem putting up items for sale via SLR to a person in public chat.

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Old 08-05-2012, 05:04 PM   #14
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Halo of G4 wrote:

As a raider, I have no problem putting up items for sale via SLR to a person in public chat.

I love it tbh. It allows people who want raid loot but don't have to time for it to spend another resource (plat) to get it. For raiders it allows them to make money whilst raiding providing income with little to no farming outside of raiding. One of the top reasons I like EQ2 raiding over other games is that it's self sustaining. I don't have plow through heroic content or do dailies for the sole purpose of raiding. SLR helps A LOT with that.

People with lots of plat can get raid loot. Raiders can get plat. It kind of connects the high end to the low end in a direct way. If severed it would be a LONG way between the two.

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Old 08-05-2012, 06:14 PM   #15
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zehly wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

This topic has already been beaten to death. Locking loot will not happen.

This type of thread rears up every couple of months. This time around, it appears to be because someone got beaten to a kill in contested Skyshrine, and the loot that dropped was sold. Sorry, but SLR does not need to be removed.

Negative. Haven't even played today. Didn't know the topic's been beaten to death though, as I'm not active on the forums. Nice try, though. I brought it up as a point of philosophical debate, nothing more.

Simply typing the subject matter into the search box will result in over 10 pages. Had of you did this simple search you could of found out all you needed to know how everyone felt about it. Some how I don't think that was what you was after, I think you wanted to bring the topic back up again. There is no need for yet another thread on this and IMO this one should be locked and allowed to forum slide.

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Old 08-05-2012, 06:36 PM   #16
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My thoughts are:

  • I don't believe the money laundering aspects which people ascribe to SLR are nearly as widespread or disruptive as the doomsayers claim.
  • Different raid mobs require different group makeups. If you are sitting out a raid and something drops that you need, too bad so sad? Devs aren't going to stop SLR because it would kill raiding.
  • This has already been discussed to death and there is no need for another thread.
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Old 08-05-2012, 06:55 PM   #17
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Twyxx wrote:

SLR works for everyone.  Disappointed with this content as there really isn't much heroic loot that people can't get for themselves that's worth buying.  I ran ToT and EoW a ton last content cause we were slr'ing all the stuff.  Was a lot of fun and all the crafters had somewhere to spend all their plats.

This. Also the raids are obscenely easy meaning the boxers/botters slr the raid loot instead of the heroic but we can't just go and wipe out an EoW HM kind of zone and slr there.

Overall I think it's good for the economy as besides SC cards it's the only thing that any amount of plat really changes hands and it probably encourages and is the reason for the SC card trades.

If you're mad about raid loot being slred that you worked hard for it probably means your guild needs to pick up the slack and raid somthing a bit harder so you can get better gear then people will slr and I've been on that end too when a few days after PoW openned on Freeport PoW items went to SLR.

It gives people a reason to log in and farm plat and to stay on to watch auctions go and is good for the overall health of the game in my opinion. Freeport is certainly a healthy population and we have SS x4 auctions going almost every night between the 2 or 3 groups of people that do them.

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Old 08-05-2012, 11:29 PM   #18
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My gut feeling is "if you can't kill the mob you shouldn't wear the gear". And this is coming from someone who doesn't have the time to raid (except the odd pickup raid). I raided in eq1 and never saw SLR so it's quite a new phenomenon to me. But, after ignoring my gut feeling, it's not really much different to farming to put on the broker.
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Old 08-06-2012, 12:09 AM   #19
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Regolas wrote:

My gut feeling is "if you can't kill the mob you shouldn't wear the gear". And this is coming from someone who doesn't have the time to raid (except the odd pickup raid). I raided in eq1 and never saw SLR so it's quite a new phenomenon to me. But, after ignoring my gut feeling, it's not really much different to farming to put on the broker.

Why my only quarrel with it is I'd rather have the loot be not no drop and be able to put the items on the broker.

Rather have a competitive market for the items versus a spur of the moment sale.

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Old 08-06-2012, 12:38 AM   #20
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SLR is an obvious exploit.  As originally mentioned, if they wanted people to be able to trade gear around there would be no such thing as no-trade or hierloom (although they would still need attunement).  Or at least they wouldn't put those tags on the items they wanted to allow players to sell.  The fact that those tags are on those items is asure indication that this is not as intended. SLR is nothing but an exploit to do an end run around no-trade and hierloom items.

As with all exploits I hate it, but it's not going away because I do. 

The reason SoE lets exploits like this stay in the game is simple -- they figure they'll get more people angry if they get rid of it then if they keep it.  The fact that so many people are exploiting -- that the player base has become so skewed -- that exploits have become the norm and, at this late date there's no getting rid of them.  Which is a sad commentary on the game and the player base as a whole.

I don't know.  Call me old fashioned.  Cheating of all sorts really bothers me.  It bothers me in sports, in card games, and in computer games.  Expecially multiplayer computer games. 

If SoE really wants people to be able to sell raid items, they should just get rid of the no-trade/hierloom tags on those items.  The fact that they don't indicate that really wasn't the intended purpose.

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Old 08-06-2012, 12:43 AM   #21
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Gilasil wrote:

SLR is an obvious exploit.  As originally mentioned, if they wanted people to be able to trade gear around there would be no such thing as no-trade or hierloom (although they would still need attunement).  Or at least they wouldn't put those tags on the items they wanted to allow players to sell.  The fact that those tags are on those items is asure indication that this is not as intended. SLR is nothing but an exploit to do an end run around no-trade and hierloom items.

As with all exploits I hate it, but it's not going away because I do. 

The reason SoE lets exploits like this stay in the game is simple -- they figure they'll get more people angry if they get rid of it then if they keep it.  The fact that so many people are exploiting -- that the player base has become so skewed -- that exploits have become the norm and, at this late date there's no getting rid of them.  Which is a sad commentary on the game and the player base as a whole.

I don't know.  Call me old fashioned.  Cheating of all sorts really bothers me.  It bothers me in sports, in card games, and in computer games.  Expecially multiplayer computer games. 

If SoE really wants people to be able to sell raid items, they should just get rid of the no-trade/hierloom tags on those items.  The fact that they don't indicate that really wasn't the intended purpose.

Wouldn't really make the raiders mad I wouldn't think if they took the no trade off.  Was my point in fact.  Let there be a competitive raid gear market instead of a spur of the moment sale.  Least that way it's more fair than a "who is on when" scenario.

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Old 08-06-2012, 01:26 AM   #22
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I don't think you got his point. Raid gear is supposed to be got through raiding. Not through buying looting rights. He would much prefer the ability to SLR be removed.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:45 AM   #23
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Most people who don't like SLR are part time raiders who hardly can dig into progressioned raiding content. They're really just that bad. Usually stuck at level one and find it being an achievement just to take out the first name. My guild's is starting to dig into the HM content (HM Drunder/HM SS/ HM POW), we hardly need the EM stuff, and if we have no use for it, it goes to our alts or SLR. We have no problem giving it out to someone who has the plat to spit out. Leaves us satisfied.

Prior to Skyshrine update, someone gave 20,000 plat just for the mount dropped from the last Epic x2 in Drunder X2 in chat. Good for him, he gave the hard earned plat for something he really wanted, and the x2 group got a nice split of 1666 plat or more each.

SLR is one of the last things keeping plat relevant today along with people selling Stationcash for plat. So I rather make sure it's still relevant. I got 12,000p under my belt, I rather not make it completely useless...

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Old 08-06-2012, 05:38 AM   #24
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Gilasil wrote:

SLR is an obvious exploit.  As originally mentioned, if they wanted people to be able to trade gear around there would be no such thing as no-trade or hierloom (although they would still need attunement).  Or at least they wouldn't put those tags on the items they wanted to allow players to sell.  The fact that those tags are on those items is asure indication that this is not as intended. SLR is nothing but an exploit to do an end run around no-trade and hierloom items.

As with all exploits I hate it, but it's not going away because I do. 

The reason SoE lets exploits like this stay in the game is simple -- they figure they'll get more people angry if they get rid of it then if they keep it.  The fact that so many people are exploiting -- that the player base has become so skewed -- that exploits have become the norm and, at this late date there's no getting rid of them.  Which is a sad commentary on the game and the player base as a whole.

I don't know.  Call me old fashioned.  Cheating of all sorts really bothers me.  It bothers me in sports, in card games, and in computer games.  Expecially multiplayer computer games. 

If SoE really wants people to be able to sell raid items, they should just get rid of the no-trade/hierloom tags on those items.  The fact that they don't indicate that really wasn't the intended purpose.

Lets address some facts...There was (semi-recently) a bug where only the people who were in the zone for the kill, could loot items from the chest. This actually occurred toward the end of the last big SLR debate.-  SOE fixed the bug. SOE ensured the functionality which enables SLR was restored.This topic has been brought up repeatedly.-  SOE has never declared it an exploit. Never punished people for doing it. Never acted against it.So with that said, you can make your proclaimations such as "SLR is an obvious exploit" (as above), but you are not the judge of what is, and is not, an exploit. I suggest before you accuse people of exploiting, and tell everyone about how "Cheating of all sorts really bothers me" (as above), you get your facts straight. Otherwise, it does not look good on your part.SOE is the judge of what is, and is not an exploit. They allow SLR, thus SLR is legit, whether you like it or not.

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Old 08-06-2012, 06:42 AM   #25
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It was a bit disconcerting the first few times I saw it happening, but it is so widespread (both in participants, and iusage/application of the item's heirloom tag) I think it would make more sense to just remove the heirloom and no-trade tags from those dropped items and let people broker them.  At this point I accept SLR, but I think it's cludgey, and removing those antiquated tags that were put in place to deter hoarding and farming would simplify the process of moving gear from the players who dont need it to those that do...

If you want to encourage raiding and heroic dungeoning instead of just a few doing it and everyone else buying off the broker, put something in place in game to make the associated achievements worth something -- use the victory/urgency/flawless achievements to empower the dropped items in some fashion.. eg, enable an otherwise hidden effect, or increase effect proc rate.  Or instead, small innate direct character improvements from the achievements that have nothing to do with the items whatsoever...

For items that are bought off a broker, where a player doesnt have the associated achievement, they wont get the benifit of the hidden effect or increased effect rate, or whatever the associated achievement would otherwise empower.

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Old 08-06-2012, 09:47 AM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

SOE is the judge of what is, and is not an exploit. They allow SLR, thus SLR is legit, whether you like it or not.

What else can be said?

These threads are unnecessary posturing.

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Old 08-06-2012, 10:15 AM   #27
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this whole attuning , heirloom, no-trade thing needs to go.

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Old 08-06-2012, 10:44 AM   #28
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This again?

Not even bothering to read beyond the title. I personally won't waste my plat on things other people are selling, but if someone else wants to blow their money, they're more than free to. No skin off my back and doesn't affect a darn thing I do.

Someone should add "SLR" and "Selling Loot Rights" to the forum filter and change it to display something funny, like "David Hasslehoff". SMILEY

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Old 08-06-2012, 10:46 AM   #29
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Poor, poor horse. How many times does it need to be exhumed and beaten more? Is there anything left on it to beat? Surely its been pulverized by now.

That said: If SLR was cheating or an exploit, SoE wouldn't have kindly given us an /Auction channel to sell it away from main chat channels.

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Old 08-06-2012, 11:25 AM   #30
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feldon30 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

SOE is the judge of what is, and is not an exploit. They allow SLR, thus SLR is legit, whether you like it or not.

What else can be said?

These threads are unnecessary posturing.

They allow it because plugging that cheat would cause a lot of raiders profiting from it to throw a hissy fit.  Not worth the trouble from their point of view.

If they truly wanted people to be able to do that, all they would have to do is remove the no-trade/hierloom tags from the items. 

There's a lot of exploits SoE just gave up on because vested interests profiting from them would go berserk.

But that doesn't mean it isn't an exploit.

In my opinion, SoE should get honest and EITHER remove the no-trade/hierloom tags from those items OR plug the SLR exploit. 

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