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Old 07-15-2011, 08:40 PM   #1
Quicksilver74

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I am eagerly looking forward to be able to play around with the Design your own Dungeon tool.   I would hope very much though, that that there is a way for me to use it while I am NOT playing Everquest 2.  For example, if I'm on a plane, maybe I pull up my laptop and work on my level editor program, which I can then upload into EQ2 the next time I connect, or at work for example, I cannot connect to EQ2, but perhaps I could work on this while I"m on my lunch break if it's able to be used while off-line. 

  It would also make a really cool project for those long down-times!   And since the Age of Discovery isn't actually going to cintain any zones, I don't see much point in selling a retail version, because like... What would you put on the CD?  Now if you include a standalone Dungeon Builder that would be amazing.  Maybe for the collector's edition you get a Nunchuck-Designed Thumb Drive and include the standalone Designer on that drive!

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Old 07-15-2011, 08:42 PM   #2
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:12 PM   #3
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Has anyone seen this?  I think it's a pretty big deal.   Most other games that have level designers have an offline mode.   

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Old 07-20-2011, 04:22 PM   #4
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Being that all they had at FF was mocked up screens. I think this is a great time to ask for it.
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Old 07-20-2011, 04:36 PM   #5
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They mentioned you would be able to acquire different "building blocks" - portions of the zone, mobs, maybe even scripts.  I would imagine that would require you to login and access the server somehow.  Otherwise you could build a whole dungeon only to log in and have the game tell you "Oops, you weren't allowed to use XXXX in your dungeon. Go start over"

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Old 07-20-2011, 04:49 PM   #6
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[email protected]_old wrote:

I am eagerly looking forward to be able to play around with the Design your own Dungeon tool.   I would hope very much though, that that there is a way for me to use it while I am NOT playing Everquest 2.  For example, if I'm on a plane, maybe I pull up my laptop and work on my level editor program, which I can then upload into EQ2 the next time I connect, or at work for example, I cannot connect to EQ2, but perhaps I could work on this while I"m on my lunch break if it's able to be used while off-line. 

  It would also make a really cool project for those long down-times!   And since the Age of Discovery isn't actually going to cintain any zones, I don't see much point in selling a retail version, because like... What would you put on the CD?  Now if you include a standalone Dungeon Builder that would be amazing.  Maybe for the collector's edition you get a Nunchuck-Designed Thumb Drive and include the standalone Designer on that drive!

Please do not tell them not to sell retail or there will be soem who wont be able to get the expansion as they dont' use cc or bank check cards

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Old 07-20-2011, 05:05 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

I am eagerly looking forward to be able to play around with the Design your own Dungeon tool.   I would hope very much though, that that there is a way for me to use it while I am NOT playing Everquest 2.  For example, if I'm on a plane, maybe I pull up my laptop and work on my level editor program, which I can then upload into EQ2 the next time I connect, or at work for example, I cannot connect to EQ2, but perhaps I could work on this while I"m on my lunch break if it's able to be used while off-line. 

  It would also make a really cool project for those long down-times!   And since the Age of Discovery isn't actually going to cintain any zones, I don't see much point in selling a retail version, because like... What would you put on the CD?  Now if you include a standalone Dungeon Builder that would be amazing.  Maybe for the collector's edition you get a Nunchuck-Designed Thumb Drive and include the standalone Designer on that drive!

Please do not tell them not to sell retail or there will be soem who wont be able to get the expansion as they dont' use cc or bank check cards

While I agree that we still need a retail version, there are ways to use a CC without actually getting one. Most department stores have pre-loaded Visa cards now that work just fine.

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Old 07-20-2011, 05:07 PM   #8
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[email protected]_old wrote:

I am eagerly looking forward to be able to play around with the Design your own Dungeon tool.   I would hope very much though, that that there is a way for me to use it while I am NOT playing Everquest 2.  For example, if I'm on a plane, maybe I pull up my laptop and work on my level editor program, which I can then upload into EQ2 the next time I connect, or at work for example, I cannot connect to EQ2, but perhaps I could work on this while I"m on my lunch break if it's able to be used while off-line. 

  It would also make a really cool project for those long down-times!   And since the Age of Discovery isn't actually going to cintain any zones, I don't see much point in selling a retail version, because like... What would you put on the CD?  Now if you include a standalone Dungeon Builder that would be amazing.  Maybe for the collector's edition you get a Nunchuck-Designed Thumb Drive and include the standalone Designer on that drive!

hehe you said...nunchuck!  SMILEY

I think it would be an awesome ability, to design offline.  It would also allow the ability to work with multiple screens up without lagging out (for those that like to).  I have never done this type of thing, building a dungeon) before but whenever I am working playing with graphics, messing around with my dreamweaver etc I usually have several screens I am working with.

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Old 07-21-2011, 11:40 AM   #9
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Imagine the Flames community making it a cottage industry building dungeons for the rest of us to play in. After all the majority of them quit because they were just too [Removed for Content] awesome to play the published content.

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Old 07-21-2011, 11:48 AM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

Imagine the Flames community making it a cottage industry building dungeons for the rest of us to play in. After all the majority of them quit because they were just too [Removed for Content] awesome to play the published content.

In all fairness some were perma banned for various abuses of the TOS, using exploits (repeatedly), stalking, threatening etc.

These player designed dungeons are going to be such drool infested cess pools (save maybe 1 out of 100) that they will not be worth the time they take to load the zone much less running them.

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Old 07-21-2011, 12:38 PM   #11
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I am really looking forward to this also I used to mess around with a map editor in VtMR and put a few small maps up.  One of the biggest things I did over there was make a city for {SoC} the guild that I was in that we then fleshed out with NPC's that several of our members set up that actually did more than just stand there.  So I really find this interesting as I can see some really well thought out zones coming if the editor is put togather properly.

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Old 07-21-2011, 01:13 PM   #12
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[email protected]_old wrote:

I am eagerly looking forward to be able to play around with the Design your own Dungeon tool.   I would hope very much though, that that there is a way for me to use it while I am NOT playing Everquest 2.  For example, if I'm on a plane, maybe I pull up my laptop and work on my level editor program, which I can then upload into EQ2 the next time I connect, or at work for example, I cannot connect to EQ2, but perhaps I could work on this while I"m on my lunch break if it's able to be used while off-line.

Good idea. Very hard to implement.

All your inventory (including DYOD items, housing items, etc.) is stored in the player database currently. You have to be online to access that. So everytime you go to place something, the game normally checks to see if the item is still present in your inventory by talking to the server. Plus we check placement rules on the server also.

What you're requesting is do-able, but would require you to save all that info on the client-side (your machine), let you do all the editing, and then somehow have a routine when you reconnect to the servers where the server could check that everything you did was valid and cool.

Like I said, it's possible, but a really large amount of work on top of what we already have planned. A very good future feature request, but definitely outside of what we can get done for initial launch.

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Old 07-21-2011, 01:31 PM   #13
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Could it be something as "simple" (dangerous word I know) as providing a basic sandbox program that would let people play wtih EVERYTHING available, maybe with an ability to import a list from your character so you can limit yourself to what you actually have available, and then save it. Then just provide a way to load up the save from in game and give a warning if there are items your character doesn't have, maybe with a list of what items the character doesn't have so you can look for them to finish it.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:47 PM   #14
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Saroc_Luclin wrote:

Could it be something as "simple" (dangerous word I know) as providing a basic sandbox program that would let people play wtih EVERYTHING available, maybe with an ability to import a list from your character so you can limit yourself to what you actually have available, and then save it. Then just provide a way to load up the save from in game and give a warning if there are items your character doesn't have, maybe with a list of what items the character doesn't have so you can look for them to finish it.

Yes, possibly. But the process of loading in your locally-saved dungeon would still require the same work to check all the placements and item validities.

Once again though, I see the attractiveness of the feature. It's definitely on the list. It just won't be in for feature launch. SMILEY

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Old 07-21-2011, 01:49 PM   #15
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I guess we will have to wait and see.  I still think that there will be some really nice zones come out of this and it will be very interesting.

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Old 07-21-2011, 02:00 PM   #16
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This may also be really useful for building dungeons for D&D.  I wouldn't be building it for actual release, just for screen shots to give my players.

Or maybe talking them into actually running through it.  Nah, then I'd also need D&D monsters like beholders, gnolls, orcs and such, and everybody knows that there's absolutely no relationship between EQ and D&D.

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Old 07-21-2011, 02:54 PM   #17
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Saroc_Luclin wrote:

Could it be something as "simple" (dangerous word I know) as providing a basic sandbox program that would let people play wtih EVERYTHING available, maybe with an ability to import a list from your character so you can limit yourself to what you actually have available, and then save it. Then just provide a way to load up the save from in game and give a warning if there are items your character doesn't have, maybe with a list of what items the character doesn't have so you can look for them to finish it.

Yes, possibly. But the process of loading in your locally-saved dungeon would still require the same work to check all the placements and item validities.

Once again though, I see the attractiveness of the feature. It's definitely on the list. It just won't be in for feature launch.

Isn't this what loading a house layout already accomplishes?  I mean we have the layout editor that isn't pictures but it just modifies a locally saved file of a house layout on your local harddrive, then when you load it in game it just replaces everything.

Sidenote: its fun to do that to the guild hall when a bunch of people are using the broker and it kicks them off...

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:07 PM   #18
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Saroc_Luclin wrote:

Could it be something as "simple" (dangerous word I know) as providing a basic sandbox program that would let people play wtih EVERYTHING available, maybe with an ability to import a list from your character so you can limit yourself to what you actually have available, and then save it. Then just provide a way to load up the save from in game and give a warning if there are items your character doesn't have, maybe with a list of what items the character doesn't have so you can look for them to finish it.

Yes, possibly. But the process of loading in your locally-saved dungeon would still require the same work to check all the placements and item validities.

Once again though, I see the attractiveness of the feature. It's definitely on the list. It just won't be in for feature launch.

Understandable.   For future content, keep in mind that having a standalone designer isn't just good for EQ2's DYOD, it's good for ANY sandbox type game.  Maybe even housing could benefit from this, or even some potential aspects of EQ Next.  

  I can only speak for myself and people in my type of situation, but having the ability to work on something like this when we are at the office, school, or any place that we otherwise can't actually connect to the game, would be amazing.   Imagine all our Military playerbase now having a standalone Tie-In to Norrath when they go to the field or deploy, You might find some of then return with the most amazing designs you've ever seen.  (I know I had down time in Iraq back in the day, and would have loved something like this). 

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:18 PM   #19
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I admit that I may not have kept up with how it works...but I thought the entire thing was being pushed as being separate from your own characters. You can create, but not partake of your own design. Where does tracking the entirety of a person's inventory come into the picture?

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:20 PM   #20
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Fiyy wrote:

Isn't this what loading a house layout already accomplishes?

It is hard to say what DYOD will be doing since we havent seen it yet. It doesnt have to have the same rules as houses. Currently with house layouts when the server loads the file it will apply the same placement rules as if the item had been moved in game. It does bypass the client side rules (these are when you are in the process of moving the item ingame).

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:21 PM   #21
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Onorem wrote:

I admit that I may not have kept up with how it works...but I thought the entire thing was being pushed as being separate from your own characters. You can create, but not partake of your own design. Where does tracking the entirety of a person's inventory come into the picture?

You will need to find / buy / ... the "stuff" used to build the dungeon. Things like unlocking a layout (zone), Mobs , decorations, ..,..

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:27 PM   #22
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[email protected] wrote:

Onorem wrote:

I admit that I may not have kept up with how it works...but I thought the entire thing was being pushed as being separate from your own characters. You can create, but not partake of your own design. Where does tracking the entirety of a person's inventory come into the picture?

You will need to find / buy / ... the "stuff" used to build the dungeon. Things like unlocking a layout (zone), Mobs , decorations, ..,..

Trusting that response. Find? ok. Buy? gfy SOE. A feature I wasn't excited about to begin with just had the bottom fall out.

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:33 PM   #23
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Onorem wrote:

Trusting that response. Find? ok. Buy? gfy SOE. A feature I wasn't excited about to begin with just had the bottom fall out.

I didnt mean marketplace .. I dont remember anything about this being RMT, however if you are able to use normal house items, then I guess stuff would already be on the marketplace for it SMILEY

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:36 PM   #24
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[email protected] wrote:

Fiyy wrote:

Isn't this what loading a house layout already accomplishes?

It is hard to say what DYOD will be doing since we havent seen it yet. It doesnt have to have the same rules as houses. Currently with house layouts when the server loads the file it will apply the same placement rules as if the item had been moved in game. It does bypass the client side rules (these are when you are in the process of moving the item ingame).

Yea I get that, but I just view the walls and such as another piece for the layout, figure you have a massive cube that you drop your dungeon into, the layout would just load into that, and maybe the system would just register the walls, hallways, etc as items.  But IDK, just an observation.

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:39 PM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:

Onorem wrote:

Trusting that response. Find? ok. Buy? gfy SOE. A feature I wasn't excited about to begin with just had the bottom fall out.

I didnt mean marketplace .. I dont remember anything about this being RMT, however if you are able to use normal house items, then I guess stuff would already be on the marketplace for it

Fair enough. Hate dropping... Hate dropping... I don't feel too bad for assuming RMT, and would be surprised if there wasn't some sort of paid advantage. They've been slowly working it for a couple years now. 'Slippery slope' isn't a logical argument, but when you see it in practice so consistently, it's hard to argue against.

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:41 PM   #26
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Why not have the ability to download dungeons to your PC and the ability to download a character to your pc and just run characters through it without the ability for any information to be uploaded back to the server?

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Old 07-21-2011, 03:45 PM   #27
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Fiyy wrote:

Yea I get that, but I just view the walls and such as another piece for the layout, figure you have a massive cube that you drop your dungeon into, the layout would just load into that, and maybe the system would just register the walls, hallways, etc as items.  But IDK, just an observation.

Based on the little info I have seen (didnt go to FF), You pick a layout which is basically a premade zone. You then get to populate the zone however you want. You place spawner items for mobs and things like decoration (I think traps would be fun as well). They should be able to do things like switches and stuff but I havent seen any info about it. It would be really cool if you could place pathing nodes for the mobs as well. So yes the overall idea is much like houses. The build interface might not be. I hear EQ1 houses have a better interface than EQ2 so maybe they will borrow from that?I am looking forward to seeing what this actually ends up being but I know it will not be as cool as what I imagine it to be SMILEY

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Old 07-21-2011, 04:59 PM   #28
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SmokeJumper wrote:

Saroc_Luclin wrote:

Could it be something as "simple" (dangerous word I know) as providing a basic sandbox program that would let people play wtih EVERYTHING available, maybe with an ability to import a list from your character so you can limit yourself to what you actually have available, and then save it. Then just provide a way to load up the save from in game and give a warning if there are items your character doesn't have, maybe with a list of what items the character doesn't have so you can look for them to finish it.

Yes, possibly. But the process of loading in your locally-saved dungeon would still require the same work to check all the placements and item validities.

Once again though, I see the attractiveness of the feature. It's definitely on the list. It just won't be in for feature launch.

Maybe do something similar to how the Elder Scrolls Construction set works, allowing you to use resources that exist on your HDD already? Like, maybe require players to log into the game to "flag" their builder for certain objects before they can use them?

As for placement rules, I'm sure it's possible to do that if you provide a specific size and shape space that we're allowed to utilize for the dungeon. Might need to make some basic layouts to begin with, and add more later? Sure it's limiting but it'll be easier to implement what these folks want at first.

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Old 07-21-2011, 05:18 PM   #29
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Basically what is being asked for is an external application that can be used to build layouts that can then be imported into the game's real designer. In House terms, It would be like if I had somehow made the Layout Editor able to use EQ2's art assets to build a layoutfile using a 3d interface using the actual game models / zones.

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Old 07-21-2011, 07:41 PM   #30
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[email protected] wrote:

Basically what is being asked for is an external application that can be used to build layouts that can then be imported into the game's real designer. In House terms, It would be like if I had somehow made the Layout Editor able to use EQ2's art assets to build a layoutfile using a 3d interface using the actual game models / zones.

TES:CS.

Does the exact same thing. 3D layouts, etc blah blah blah, except to load them into game you had to make an .esp file and cilck a checkbox, a plugin.

With this they could just make an option in the launcher or options menu or something to upload a layout file from HDD. It'd be able to scan the module, and if there's something that won't work, give an error, that says whats wrong, and just fail to upload the file.

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