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Old 11-14-2015, 01:17 AM   #1
Ajax

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Why must EVERY scout thread always have to be about beastlords? Get over it..Not complaining but just saying for everyone obsessed/exaggerating about the beastlord class, yes they do good dps but have absolutely no sort of utility to help the group/raid and no dehate or hate transfer...WE GET IT. There's not suppose to be a perfect class that can do EVERYTHING....and there's a REASON why there is 26 different classes...

Each class has it's own unique abilities and help the group in some way or form.
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Old 11-14-2015, 01:23 AM   #2
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Like the bard and chanter classes for example, they may not do 30+mil dps but they help the group and raid.
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Old 11-14-2015, 01:38 AM   #3
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here's why:

Beastlords are supposed to do damage in the range of an Assassin or a Ranger...perhaps even more, BECAUSE they have no hate xfer/dehate/etc.

Beastlords have no group helping abilities. nothing at all. they have a 'spiritual stance' where they can heal maybe as well as a paladin (which means worthless) and they have thier 'feral stance' which is all about damage.

they got a dozen or more warders that all gie them various primals/advantages....and other then that they have like 7 abilities.
which means if the pet dies, there goes pretty much all a BLs damage.
and the primals have to be 'charged' by using advantages, so on short fights...they still do virtually nothing dps wise in comparison to most scouts.

I'd say BLs right now are one of/the weakest scout. they do low dps, and offer nothing at all in utility. though I haven't really seen what they can do in beta now, with some of the changes that were made, so I'm hoping that helps them alot.
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Old 11-14-2015, 02:33 AM   #4
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'cept you don't, because there is no reason to bring one if everyone else does their job better through reliability (range, no gimmicks) or utility (%hp debuffs, transfer, etc.). If their damage is not bonkers above everyone else by a huge margin they're bad. They're still bad.
Paladins have an instant cast groupwide full heal/stoneskin as well as a group cure, just say'n.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:47 AM   #5
Dreadtalon

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---
*Grabs his hair in his hands and screams*

Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

"Not complaining but....." - That's my favorite part.

Dreadtalon, a Freetard of Tardfire
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:26 AM   #6
Mogrim

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Feral Beastlords crush the rest of the raidforce in dps and it isn't close.
Spiritual Beastlords crush the rest of T1s in utility and it isn't close.
Spiritual Beastlords can outheal druids.
Spiritual Beastlords can out mana regen 2 coercers combined.

I mean all you can't do is tank/transfer/mana drain. Everything else, you're better than the rest of the T1 classes in every aspect.

Best single target dps? Beastlords.
Best aoe target dps? Bestlords.
Best linked-encounter dps? Beastlords.

You guys are able to win sustained parses by ratios that are similar to how Warlocks were performing on 40 second fights.

You're the alpha class, and there should be 3-4 Beastlords in every raid if possible and the mechanics of the fight don't prevent it.
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Old 11-14-2015, 09:25 AM   #7
Estarion

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We need proofs, Billy, or go to hell
BL may contest the top parse on a single target fight and should win it except it's ranged/jousted/manadrain/scripted/CC/etc. etc. but everything else is BS and lie.
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Old 11-14-2015, 09:29 AM   #8
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I usually see eye to eye with mogrim. But.. here.. I haven't heard one raid force.. say they're scraping mage groups..that would be dumb..what happens on a ranged fight? lol.. fatality has no plans other than maybe running a beastlord... but my money says our raid force still contains warlock...wizard..sin..brig and ranger and no Beastlord come launch ... Another thing I think the beastlord has always had a huge dps potential but with hate problems.. not much maxhp debuffs...pets dying..they weren't desirable... and still are not very desirable to a raid force...other than a very skilled player who throws down.. which is what mogrim saw play... Prolly one of the best beastlords imho..not to mention he had a ton of beta gear.. all done up...scoundril range..early advantage.. battle cry... ev... like he was SET UP. And let me be clear... mogrim didnt win all the parse like on live he won a few.. mostly the aoe ones. But Ive said this to him..thats where they SHOULD excel. I don't think we're seeing a finished version here..and I think all the NERF THIS... BUFF THIS, stuff is just a waste of time.. every xpac, same thing. Buff my class nerf the others.. unfortunately warlock was on the business end of that eq2 mechanic this xpac. So? they're still not bad. They parse well. and mana drain and feed well.. you out heal the healers sometimes.. lol..Could beastlord be toned down? yes maybe a bit, thatd be fine... but i still think there was a larger gap between you and everyone else on live, mogrim.. than beastlords and other t1s on beta.

Also quick note, on the other hand mogrim is right... beastlords dont need any more buffs.. like at all, I didnt see a swash raid.. but.. why we talking about classes that look pretty good on beta.. when necros and wizards suffer much worse.. imho
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Old 11-14-2015, 10:43 AM   #9
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Because it was on the agenda to be fixed by Kander, by fixed I'm assuming he means T1 dps comparable with assassins at least. With that will come the threat problem, they have zero transfers and aggro management sucks. So that needs looking at before Tuesday.

Thanks for starting another thread though Smile

"
Sigh.

This kind of silliness why they got hit so hard with the nerf bat 2 expacs ago Frown

Everyone wants to be top of the parse these days Frown
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Old 11-14-2015, 12:09 PM   #10
Estarion

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Am I only one who can't understand why beastlords shouldn't get a dehate tools because their dps is high? What kind of logic is it? Beastlord's best advantages and primals comes from behind or from stealth that might be obtained from behind too, so why? Facing the mob decreased BL's dps by a really huge amount, not to mention the death possibility raises up to 100%. Mages would never understand it, I know, but sins? Guys, just try out to not placing your x-fer at any tank except paladin and may be superior geared/buffed guardian and look what will happen. And still you barely can imagine all loss there, because you still have no idea of what happens when you NEED to press a primal to continue maintain a Feral Rampage, but you can't do it right now, or when you NEED to press a couple of advantages fast to prevent savagery drops under lvl 4 but you also can't do it right now, all because an angry monster is looking at you and you even don't have a possibility to swap advantages/primals into the fight. Bye-bye dps.
Btw that Mogrim, few days ago I've seen his whining in chat channel, and for the word he had admitted the Scoundrel's Slip is up to 40% of scout's dps, and that was true or near it. And there in other thread he had appealed a disparity between BC and UT that also is true. But then here he made a conclusion that beastlord is the superior class because of this third-party buff and broken items procs. He must be a pretty stupid guy or just liar.
Last update devs fixed Finisher. It's not applying to item procs any more. And BC is not a BL property, it might be buffed to any t1 dps classes, and where will be a beastlord then? Would we expect a new parses from him?
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Old 11-14-2015, 12:36 PM   #11
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Do we even play the same game//know what any of their skills do? I suggest you make one, maybe you'll learn something.

Spiritual stance doesn't offer any utility that surpasses a consumable item from two expansions ago.
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Old 11-14-2015, 03:06 PM   #12
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Like I said, there isn't suppose to be a class that has EVERYTHING, If beastlords were given a threat transfer then many more would create a bl and stop playing the other classes.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:25 PM   #13
Estarion

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What for? To pump their toons and then constantly rip agro and die or loose a tons of dps because of need to step back and pick a weaker advantages and primals that doesn't require a back/stealth restrictions? No reason here. And don't tell me about relic proc because no any class should be balanced around one item which is: a) even not a class specific item; b) says bb to any other good items not only in that slot but any other relic items also, that may be even better ones; c) it's pay to play item.
Actually beastlord is the only dps scout with no hate control at all. Even rangers have their hawk no matter what. Beastlord has nothing here.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:28 PM   #14
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Spiritual stance offers better mana regen than 2 Coercers can produce, and better heals than Druids can produce. What consumable item does that?
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:33 PM   #15
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As for Laserbeak, 2 things.

1) There were never big gaps between me and anyone else on mobs in the last raid zone. In fact, some of those I didn't win. Remember? The big gaps have always only existed on really short fights. The problem is, Beastlords can outspike a Warlock on any possible combination of content. We saw it. The only legit beta parse I won in an x4 was a fight where we still wiped at like 25% and the next pull I wasn't winning when we wiped.

2) Fatality is indeed talking about condensing our mages into 1 mage group and definitely isn't planning to use 2 mage groups if we can help it. Even our 1 mage group might actually become a hybrid group with me sticking around for mana drain reasons.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:35 PM   #16
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The ToV version of essence of malice, which does better than both and can be auto consumed.

Not that it matters, at all, anyone who was remotely good at this game has used power roots since KoS.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:37 PM   #17
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... lol. Do you, even... raid? Because if you think that item even remotely compares to 1.5mil wards and INSTANT 0 to 100 mana, I don't even know.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:39 PM   #18
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You seem to be crying a lot about BL's lately, or are you mad that they nerfed your precious Focused Casting that you kept bragging about last xpack ?
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:39 PM   #19
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A BL in spiritual will provide the Warding that helps a non shaman class deal with the pulse damage. (Faster than swapping in a second healer on hard hitting Pulse fights) (FIX CHILLBARRIER!!!! KTHXBAI)
In a mage group they can buff 60+% pot to group, and power feed group,
In a scout group they can buff wdb ,CB, Multi attack, Attack speed
In a Tank group they can provide 20 % mit increase
With the Dire pet up they provide a fairly consistent 4k Debuff to all resists (or go enchanted for 5k Arcane, or Turtle for 6400 nox debuff) --- see Options = Utility
If the mob needs to be moved around while being killed a beast can heal and ward on the run (like Captain Morgan from RC)

Having all those Tools to fit any situation is what I would call Utility.

Dealing with Hate generation is the main problem they have right now. On live I die in Fabled PUG groups pretty much 5+ times per zone (Record = 27 times in COI) and its only going to get worse in ToT.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:43 PM   #20
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You realize I didn't BRAG about Focused Casting, I defended it, right? My issue is that you didn't need my class to be destroyed in order to feel good about yours. So yeah, I might be a bit unhappy that your only solution to your own problems was to cause problems for another class.

I even put a disclaimer on one of my posts that I am more than happy to wait and see how the BLs handle live.

But that doesn't stop the fact that on Beta, a Spiritual Beastlord can ward high enough to easily double or more a high-end Druid - on the heal parse. I watched it happen for an entire night of 3+ hours of content. That doesn't stop the fact that on Beta, a Spiritual Beastlord can make their group's mana go from empty to completely full instantly.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:58 PM   #21
Estarion

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Oh my, again and again I read about Spiritual Stance. Doubled druid hps? Who cares? BL hasn't any single heal tool, who would pick a BL as a healer idk. What are you talking about? Better give us a BL's detailed parse from aoe encounter, it's really interesting how a warlock lost it to a class with 1.5 aoe combat arts
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:00 PM   #22
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Heal Parses mean Jack and Squat. Wards hit before Hots and Reactives that is the only reason he would have out healed the druid, that does not mean they have a greater healing potental than the druid does it just means the group was being over healed.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:06 PM   #23
Koko

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Do you even play this game? I'll teach you how!
1) Right click item
2) Select "auto consume"
3) Have infinite power

Congratulations!! You're now at my level two expansion ago.
[IMG]
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:48 PM   #24
Mogrim

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Since when has consuming 2.5 Etyma per second been a viable means of long-term mana regen?

I guess your methodology of regen works if all you do is bot and run heroics and em pugs, but if you're doing a 5 minute sustained fight with sustained mana drains, grats, you just used 1500 Etyma.

How far did you get in AoM Raid Mobs? Did you at least clear Zav? Its ok if you couldn't kill Perador. Did you at least kill the first 3 Raid mobs?
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:00 PM   #25
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I take it back. When was Kingdom of Sky again? Oh right, ten expansions ago. Welcome to ten expansions ago.

P.S. People paid us (+loot) to three-man Ragefire for updates when the content was relevant. No bots/exploits involved.
"Mana regen" will never be a reason to bring any class until they severely nerf remove recovery items.
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:14 PM   #26
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Ok, so somehow you ended up with //millions// of Etyma and can afford to auto consume at 1 potion every 2 seconds. Grats. That is not a relevant playstyle, nor one that is practiced by almost anyone else in this game.

I do enjoy how certain you are that you're superior at this game. I'd like to see you app to a top 5 guild sometime.
Come app to Fatality and see how you stack up! lol.
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:15 PM   #27
Dreadtalon

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Any Beastlord with a Potency build that knows the class has been complete healing and complete mana-regening his/her group since the BL class was introduced. Beta is nothing new is this regard.

Reliability, we don't have.

Dreadtalon, a Freetard of Tardfire
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:18 PM   #28
Mogrim

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Reliability as to what?
Is your main concern ripping aggro too easily? I am certain that a well maintained Sever Hate rotation would work. A Paladin of course would work. Several new items also greatly help dropping aggro - the new Discombobulate, the Positional Deaggro proc ranged item too.

If your concern is that you'll pull aggro too easily, I think there are a lot of items that will make your life a lot easier, and that is a good thing! Smile
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:57 PM   #29
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Someone has not beta tested the raids this expansion...

Those things aside, I think BLs are in good shape right now. They need a fix to Chill Barrier to actually work as intended. Otherwise, they look good. Yes they do a ton of dps now (so do the other T1 dps) and they have the spiritual utility - but that is balanced against Max HP debuffs, transfers, damage procs etc that the other dps classes provide through utility.

Honestly the classes that really need help are Necros/Inquisitors. Those are classes that really should have an entire thread devoted to them.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:02 PM   #30
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I'll take your spot whenever I want. Luckily for you, I prefer mine where players use power items instead of ****-tier classes such as spiritual-beastlords.

@Monstuhr You're right, I haven't. Let me know if it is worse than ignoring the Klandicar curse script.
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