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Old 03-20-2012, 12:24 PM   #1
thorn

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Now the patch is live today.. anyone notice any change? Tougher or easier?  Whats everyone swapping their crit mit adorn for? MA? lol

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Old 03-20-2012, 12:30 PM   #2
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Mostly swaping to DPS adorns as you suggest.

But I'll post here the same advice I gave my guild.  Go check out your SF red runes again.  Many classes have fairly useful red runes in SF that are not on the set bonuses in DoV.  We gave them up early on in DoV in sacrafice to the all powerful queen of crit mit.

Go back and look at them, as you might find one of them more useful than 7 MA.

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Old 03-20-2012, 01:42 PM   #3
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thorn wrote:

Now the patch is live today.. anyone notice any change? Tougher or easier?  Whats everyone swapping their crit mit adorn for? MA? lol

well we just went in isk with hm geared toons, all at or above 55k hp, never had a problem before, now we gettign critted about 70% and tank getting owned, lol

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Old 03-20-2012, 01:53 PM   #4
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[email protected] wrote:

thorn wrote:

Now the patch is live today.. anyone notice any change? Tougher or easier?  Whats everyone swapping their crit mit adorn for? MA? lol

well we just went in isk with hm geared toons, all at or above 55k hp, never had a problem before, now we gettign critted about 70% and tank getting owned, lol

I just did a quick pools run and it appears I am taking an average of 30-40% more damage now because of crits.

AVG incoming damage per second before= 1,840.

AVG incoming damage per second after= 2,389.

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Old 03-20-2012, 01:55 PM   #5
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Hahaha,

They totally screwed the pooch on pushing this to live.Imagine that!

Technically nothign at all should be critting.  I think they had it fixed on test eventually, but sounds like they didnt push the right version to live.

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Old 03-20-2012, 01:56 PM   #6
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Just logged in to solo first named in pools... one of my daily routine zones.  Saw that the CM was removed...  I had my pet die a couple of times on my first round of trash, which doesnt usually happen.  I thought maybe I was slacking more than usual.. so started paying a bit more attention...

I noticed that the trash (94^^^) was critting... pretty much every other hit.  So I went and checked my logs from previous days.. and not once had they landed a crit previously.  So that started today.

Previously max hits were between 3-5k, today they are critting for over 10k. routinely 5-9k every other hit. (edit)

Is this how it's supposed to work now? (just an example below of previous general fights vs. today, I filtered out the misses).

Previously...

(1332082364)[Sun Mar 18 10:52:44 2012] a murk viper hits YOU for 3258 piercing damage.(1332082364)[Sun Mar 18 10:52:44 2012] a murk viper multi attacks YOU for 4810 piercing damage.(1332082367)[Sun Mar 18 10:52:47 2012] a murk viper hits YOU for 3861 piercing damage(1332082370)[Sun Mar 18 10:52:50 2012] a murk viper hits YOU for 4467 piercing damage.(1332082373)[Sun Mar 18 10:52:53 2012] a murk viper hits YOU for 4278 piercing damage.(1332082375)[Sun Mar 18 10:52:55 2012] a murk viper aoe attacks YOU for 4633 piercing damage.(1332082375)[Sun Mar 18 10:52:55 2012] a murk viper hits Anaugi for 4668 piercing damage.(133208237[Sun Mar 18 10:52:58 2012] a murk viper aoe attacks YOU for 3768 piercing damage.(1332082380)[Sun Mar 18 10:53:00 2012] a murk viper aoe attacks Nevis Yewkus for 4957 piercing damage.

Today..

(1332258479)[Tue Mar 20 11:47:59 2012] a murk viper critically hits Anaugi for 10504 piercing damage.(1332258480)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:00 2012] a murk viper's Winged Venom critically hits Anaugi for 5441 piercing damage.(1332258481)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:01 2012] a murk viper hits Anaugi for 5769 piercing damage.

(stunned mob for rest of fight).. next..

(1332258509)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:29 2012] a murk viper multi attacks Anaugi for 929 piercing damage.(1332258514)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:34 2012] a murk viper hits Anaugi for 5587 piercing damage.(1332258515)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:35 2012] a murk viper critically hits Anaugi for 8469 piercing damage.(1332258515)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:35 2012] a murk viper multi attacks Anaugi for 6148 piercing damage.(1332258520)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:40 2012] Your stoneskin absorbed 11,087 points of damage!(1332258520)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:40 2012] a murk viper critically hits YOU but fails to inflict any damage.(1332258521)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:41 2012] a murk viper critically hits YOU for 4058 piercing damage.(1332258521)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:41 2012] a murk viper multi attacks YOU for 4807 piercing damage.(1332258523)[Tue Mar 20 11:48:43 2012] a murk viper critically hits YOU for 7799 piercing damage.

I know this is only showing you one instance of a fight from today vs. previous.. but having gone through the logs.. its consistently like this vs all previous runs compared to today.

and just checked out previous encounters vs. today for the first boss. He never critted before.. average today was 31% crit, max hit previously (every time), was 7617, today was 10,957.  Previously my damage taken was between 630k, and 740k (between 4 different runs), today was 901k

working as intended?

Anaugi.

(editted for formatting).

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:06 PM   #7
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Bravo!

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:09 PM   #8
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Geothe wrote

Technically nothign at all should be critting.  I think they had it fixed on test eventually, but sounds like they didnt push the right version to live.

I don't believe that to be true, crit chance and crit mit, and crit bonus are all different things.  They removed critical mitigation, and crit bonus, they did not remove crit chance.  But wait you say, without any crit bonus what's with all these freakin crits?  well crit bonus is the "bonus" over 30% that non modded crits would give.  So now we have a situation where mobs crit, sometimes very often, and where we used to be able to mitigate both the bonus and the regular crit, we no longer have to deal with the bonus, but the regular crit is still mighty impressive, and we can't do anything to it.  Why do i believe this is true?  The update notes themselves:

"Enhance: Noxious Enfeeblement now improves the Crit Chance and attribute reductions of Noxious Enfeeblement"

Why would the aa be changed to reduce crit chance if there wasn't any chance of crits.  Answer:  crits are still in with the regular crit but no bonus.  For those that are not old school, crits used to be without bonus, and the way it worked was the damage became either 30% more than the RNG gave, or the max damage+1, whichever was greater.  Which would also be in line with the prior posters experience.

This is going to make some of the content that was very hard, nearly impossible if it isn't changed IMO.  Apologies for length.

*edited for clarity

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #9
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I Told You So. Instead of trying to do all this massive amount of work and changing mechanics and changing buff packages and mobs and trying to figure out why what you are doing isn't working, stop trying to make it so mobs can still crit. We've been here before. Multiple times. Mobs critting without players having a way to mitigate it is the worst possible mechanic you can ever have. Does anyone remember Matron? Nothing like waiting for the roll of the dice where you don't get crit so you can actually kill the mob. All NPC crits do is add a level of random that is bad for the game in every single way. There is absolutely nothing good about NPC's critting. Just drop this line of thought, period. It's the simplest change ever, that is probably 2 lines of code. You just comment out or delete the part where NPC's crit. Problem solved. I don't understand what the dev team could possibly be thinking that mobs should be able to crit and we shouldn't be able to mitigate it, yet somehow the damage we receive isn't going to change. It is just baffling and absurd. But hey, you broke the game today. Congratulations on not listening.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:22 PM   #10
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Yeah, let's just roll this patch back and leave the whole Crit thing alone. I do not think SOE with it's current team can fix this in an acceptable way, so let's just not bother. Ok?

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:23 PM   #11
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Yep same thing. I did upto first named in Pools. According to ACT avg of 53% incoming attacks were crits.

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:23 PM   #12
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ForEach ($Mob in $Mobs.db)

{

If ($Mob.CritChance -gt 0){$Mob.CritChance = 0}

}

It really doesn't have to be any harder than that.

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:23 PM   #13
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Crit mit removal shouldn't have made every instance in the game harder. Random spike damage may well make a whole bunch of raid mobs utterly unkillable.

As a person in a good amount of hardmode raid gear I shouldn't be crit on that much in pools imo =/

The innate crit bonus on these mobs which is plainly still there needs to be removed or we need to have innate crit mit, now.

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:28 PM   #14
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This post has moved: /eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=49996...post_id=5734497 Please keep posts constructive.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:32 PM   #15
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Ya.. I just ran through it again, got the named to 1% then killed myself to check numbers.

Every other run before today his max was 7617, he's critting for well over 10k now, highest hit on second run was 11,561. 48% crit hits.

/twirl

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:39 PM   #16
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better pay even more attention to who is getting hit now.

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:41 PM   #17
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Instead of having to use every red and yellow slot for crit mit, we'll need to slot out every red, yellow and *white* slot with health adorns.

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:42 PM   #18
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jangaladangit wrote:

Instead of having to use every red and yellow slot for crit mit, we'll need to slot out every red, yellow and *white* slot with health adorns.

I don't think the extra 2kish hp will be enough

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:43 PM   #19
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

jangaladangit wrote:

Instead of having to use every red and yellow slot for crit mit, we'll need to slot out every red, yellow and *white* slot with health adorns.

I don't think the extra 2kish hp will be enough

oh 2k hp will def make up for 50% crits..... just ask sony

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #20
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] DLere wrote:

jangaladangit wrote:

Instead of having to use every red and yellow slot for crit mit, we'll need to slot out every red, yellow and *white* slot with health adorns.

I don't think the extra 2kish hp will be enough

oh 2k hp will def make up for 50% crits..... just ask sony

It definitely won't be enough, it's just funny that one of the reasons given for this change was to give us more freedom of choice with respect to adorns, and instead we'll have less choice and be worse off than before

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:51 PM   #21
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To everyone out there. We tested this extensively on Test. We provided feedback. Incoming damage went up a lot. We posted charts, grids, we tried to explain why this would be a problem. There were tons of posts on it. It was not fixed. Now the crit mit removal was pushed live.

Expect a lot of people to quit over this. I'm probably calling off progression attempts for raid tonight and doing farming instead. This is one of the first times that I have gone from thinking... "they just don't get it sometimes" to... "they don't even care".

We're paying for this game. Please fix it.

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:51 PM   #22
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Banditman wrote:

ForEach ($Mob in $Mobs.db)

{

If ($Mob.CritChance -gt 0){$Mob.CritChance = 0}

}

It really doesn't have to be any harder than that.

Except then they would have to rework every AA, proc, and debuff that affected mob crit chance

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:52 PM   #23
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shots01 wrote:

I don't know if you are serious or being sarcastic.  I for one, am glad its gone.

Now the raiding uber elite snobs can't turn their noses up anymore at us  common folks.  We now basically are all on the same plane, or at least closer to it.  Which is as it should be.

Maybe now the "you must have 130 cm or better" will stop and restrictions will be lifted from joining groups.

I get a bit tired of being denied groups because they feel I ..........not suck.. but.....suck LOL.

You new around here?

Crit Mit removal isn't going to make a speck of difference to your ability to join a group over your head.  Crit Mit was only one requirement.  It was the easy one.  You still have to deal with Crit Chance / Crit Avoidance.

The only change is "you must have 280 crit chance or better".

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:55 PM   #24
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I see now why they added  health to red and yellow adorns. Even with the measly added 750 health I got from this I have declined in overall health and power by significant amounts. From a rather quick perusal of my character's gear and Character Development tree I didn't see any glaring changes. However, it is possible that health and power you get from each adventure level earned has been lowered. Probably to "make up" for the future two levels we are getting next month since we got such a huge benefit from our new health adornsSMILEY

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:58 PM   #25
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shots01 wrote:

I don't know if you are serious or being sarcastic.  I for one, am glad its gone.

Now the raiding uber elite snobs can't turn their noses up anymore at us  common folks.  We now basically are all on the same plane, or at least closer to it.  Which is as it should be.

Maybe now the "you must have 130 cm or better" will stop and restrictions will be lifted from joining groups.

I get a bit tired of being denied groups because they feel I ..........not suck.. but.....suck LOL.

There will always be hurdles that you must get over in order to progress.  With enough skill combined with enough of the right gear, it will allow you to succeed.  This has been the basic premise of this game for nearly 8 years.

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Old 03-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #26
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Banditman wrote:

shots01 wrote:

I don't know if you are serious or being sarcastic.  I for one, am glad its gone.

Now the raiding uber elite snobs can't turn their noses up anymore at us  common folks.  We now basically are all on the same plane, or at least closer to it.  Which is as it should be.

Maybe now the "you must have 130 cm or better" will stop and restrictions will be lifted from joining groups.

I get a bit tired of being denied groups because they feel I ..........not suck.. but.....suck LOL.

You new around here?

Crit Mit removal isn't going to make a speck of difference to your ability to join a group over your head.  Crit Mit was only one requirement.  It was the easy one.  You still have to deal with Crit Chance / Crit Avoidance.

The only change is "you must have 280 crit chance or better".

+1 or as Ive seen in channel chat already must have over (insert number) hitpoints.

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Old 03-20-2012, 03:10 PM   #27
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This is a GUESS as to the current mob critting situation.   It fits my limited supply of today's data,  and the data from test.

Today's parses seem (limited quantity) to indicate that the inate CB is still in place.   I've checked only the magnitude portion of the unwarded  incoming melee damage on the tank, since that gives a lot of data, and I can compare to earlier in the week's parses pre removal, on the same names I farm daily to hunt the rare mobs.

Guess:

Mobs have had a crit chance for a while.   They got a crit bonus about the time CM came into being.  When you moused over the mob, you read its CB, except many also had an inate bonus just like players do, which was not shown and you had to add either 30 or 50 to get the real CB.

If you had enough CM, you could eliminate  CB, and the inate adder along with it.     When they decided to eliminate CM, they discovered that they had unintentionally caused CM to remove the inate CB also.    Sort of like the mitigation math error that dropped my Paladin 8% in mitigation without any gear changes a while back.   They had multiplied all the little 2%, 1.8%, 4.5% gear bonuses to mitigation instead of adding them, and suddenly my tank was getting clobbered with exactly the same gear as the day before.   Coding errors are not unheard of in the game, and often belatedly discovered.

Anyhow, back to the story:   When they eliminated CM,  they eliminated the CB of the mob, but "fixed" the coding to leave  the inate as they had orignially intended.

Like I said, it's only a guess, but it fits the math I'm seeing on the parses, and it fits what was seen (and advised by many) on test.

I've not been into Drunder yet, as it unlocks later in the day, but that will probably tell the tale better.

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Old 03-20-2012, 03:11 PM   #28
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We understand that some creatures are still critically hitting. Seems we missed a file or two for the integration to live. We are working to get it resolved asap!

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Old 03-20-2012, 03:13 PM   #29
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Duels are broken as well.. now that we can crit eachother its just a one shot fest, remove criticals in duels.

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Old 03-20-2012, 03:13 PM   #30
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Gninja wrote:

We understand that some creatures are still critically hitting. Seems we missed a file or two for the integration to live. We are working to get it resolved asap!

Could you verify that post resolution none of the mobs should be criticalling anymore?

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