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Old 04-23-2007, 10:16 PM   #1
-=Hoss=-

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Just like the title says, how important is gear?  I'm in a raid last night in freethinkers, and there's another assassin there whom I've never played with.  I didn't get a zonewide parse last night, but he was parsing over twice what i did.  I'm almost embarrassed to throw numbers out because I've seen you guys throwing around numbers like 4k zonewide.  But, on a typical fight (no jousting), I was doing around 1k, or a little less, and he was doing around 2k or a little higher.  So, i asked him if he had any advice, and all he had to say was get your spells mastered and get more strength.  So, I'm asking you guys, is that really all there is to this class?  He was pretty much entirely fabled, and i assume fully mastered.  I can't remember his weapons, but i think they both had damage ratings around 60.  While I'm probably about 90% legendaried (still use a lot of treasured stuff as needed for resists) and about 3 spells away from being fully adept3'd.  I probably have a dozen masters.  My only fabled items are relic chain gloves (which kinda suck), adamantium dragonfang (from labs) and the raincaller bow.  My weapons are the dragonfang and the bloodspiller, I think they're both around 55 damage rating.  So, is the difference in our gear/spells really that big that he should be doing over twice the damage?  I know technique has got to play a large part in it because, since i started raiding and asking for advice, I've gone from doing like 300 zonewide to doing around 800.  And that was with very little in the way of equipment upgrades (I had 90% of my current gear before my first raid).  Heck, in one night, after getting advice from another assassin i was grouping with, i went from an alltime high of 450 on a parse (for a single real fight) to breaking 1k a couple of times.  One more thing, when i inspected him, his str was only about 20 pts higher than mine (490 vs 510), but he had me beat by at least 50 pts in agi, over 100 in sta, and i had him by about 20-30 pts in int.  Its hard to imagine he had a lot of fabled gear and his str was that low.  Maybe he has crappy relic gear like my chain gloves (I think they give 25 sta and 25 agi, I'm tempted to just keep wearing my stygian gauntlets that give 18 str), or maybe there was just no one in his group to buff him.  I didn't really notice.  So, i guess the question is, how much of this class is gear, and how much of it is the person pushing the keys? -t
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Old 04-23-2007, 11:36 PM   #2
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It's both. And a great player with great gear and great bfufs is going to do a LOT more because they stack.

If you post what gear you got, masters, etc. maybe we could give you an idea of what some players could do.  And what group buffs you normally get.

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Old 04-24-2007, 01:24 AM   #3
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what was the group setup you were both had. imo dps goes like this skill>buffs>gear
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Old 04-24-2007, 12:07 PM   #4
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Recca[BK wrote:
]what was the group setup you were both had. imo dps goes like this skill>buffs>gear

yea I agree with this,,,but then the next question is what makes someone "skillful"

Proper CA cycle- Quickness getting behind someone- fast at chaining attacks-using the right posions

There is only so much one can do.

I was getting frustated as well in FTH too.  Cause I think I do all that well but my DPS is not that high 1300-1600 ish per fight.  Getting beat by a bruiser on some fights.

I read where assassins where avagering over 2.1 k zw on their CA cylce so i do that.

Shadow assult--defuff--dot--wait for disbatch (if its coming) concellment chain back stabs..repeat

no way a bruiser should be beating me and seems I do what all the other top parse assassins do. 

And on AE encounters DPS drops allot from single.

Frustating seems I am missing something and dont know what it is. 

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Old 04-24-2007, 02:14 PM   #5
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I'm with you siclone.  I feel like I'm missing something too.  Its why I've been here the last week or so looking for advice and tips.  I think the biggest part of my problem is lag.  My internet connection goes through a 900 MHz radio with a shady signal strength.  As for group makeup.  I do not remember.  I can tell you what the group makeups were supposed to be, because its posted on our website.  But I'm not sure how much they got changed.  I was in group 3, and he was either in group 1, the MT group, or group 2.  We switched these up a little, and by the end of the night, I think my group was all scouts with 1 healer.  Group 1   Dirge   Defiler   Guardian   Templar   Fury   Assassin Group 2   Necromancer   Necromancer   Warlock   Troubador   Fury   Assassin Group 3   Inquisitor   Brigand   Berserker   Ranger   Assassin   Dirge Group 4   Berserker   Shadowknight   Berserker   ShadowKnight   Guardian   Fury As for posting gear, thats kind of a daunting task.  Might be easier to give you pertinent stats?  Just tell me whats important.  I can put on my raiding gear and write it all down before i have anyone elses buffs.  As for masters I have, killing blade, fiendish villany, deadly focus, exacting, jugular (M2), scraping blw, flowing wounds, malignant mark, enmesh, eviscerate, surveillance.  AD3s are murderous design, apply poison, concealment, decap, crippling strike, finishing blow, contrived weapon, spitting asp, assailing blast, masked attack, whirling blades, adroit defence, freezing strike, and maybe puncture blade.  Everything else is adept1.  -t
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:08 PM   #6
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I have a few suggestions bro... Try to get the most you can out of your auto-attack...make sure you use ca's between auto-attacks..make sure you use things such as Cacophony of Blades and other temp buffs to the fullest...and also, in between cobs and such, be throw up concealment and hit with ur big attacks... Use exacting to the utmost; try always getting finishing blow in while using exacting because a 30% increase to such a big hitting ca is great. Also, put aa's into your hemotoxin line in EoF..you will most definately see an up to your overall poison damage in zonewides over caustic, unless of course, you have 7 pieces of EoF armor, or you always have an illusionist... The importance to dps'ing as an assassin is to use whatever you get to the utmost (i.e. gear/groups). Using those 2 factors to the utmost will most definately up your dps; therefore, your skill. But try for yourself many different things...just because every assassin dps's one way doesn't mean you can't find another way to dps just as well or not better.. I study parses, study parses of other classes, study my group setup, study my haste/dps mod/crits in certain group setups...to try to make the most dps out of what you get... Keep it up..
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:49 PM   #7
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How much STR do you have raid-buffed? I see you had a dirge, which should allow decent DPS just from that. (On a scale of 1-10 where 1 is no buffs and 10 is great buffs, a dirge by itself is a 6 or 7 IMO) Having a laggy computer or connection is an issue with assassin. It can really mess up your timing. We have fast attacks and fast recasts so you need to be able to chain them quickly. I probably unload all of my CAs in about 20 seconds. I play in atari graphics mode on raids, to get minimum lag. When the server is lagging a bit, it's a big hit to my dps. What weapons are you using? What poisons? What's your AA setup? I'll give you my cast order in case it helps: 1) start in stealth 2) always open with cloaked assault 3) mark, constriction, enmesh (debuffs) 4) cast honed reflexes, deadly focus, exacting (any or all) if I'm going to use them 5) cast all dots/melee CAs: crippling strike, scraping blow, deadly wound, flowing wound, freezing strike 6) start concealment, get invis with poison combination, then: killing blade, eviscerate, jugular, puncture blade, decapitate 7) use master strike if it works at this point, and then contrived weapon and brock's thermal shocker from this point on it's mostly cast stuff as it's up. You can train your dirge to cast COB early in the fight so it maximizes your chain. They usually wait too long so you're either delaying your dps or it's mistimed with your arts. It's a long cast so it kind sucks to cast it early but it really can add a good amount. COB 20 seconds into a fight is just not as good. It's important to get everything mastered, or at least adept3. No skills should be adept1 if you're serious about dps. Concealment for example doesnt' add any more time to it, but you get a benefit in that it reduces hate further. Which can be a very good thing if you hit for a 30k+ decap. Use STR potions all the time unless you're at > 850 str, then consider crit % potions. And finally, you need to get some good weapons. Your auto-attack dmg suffers a lot until you get one of the better weapons. It's not sexy, but going from okay fabled weapons to the best is like +200 dps with good auto-attack buffs. I'm not using frontload currently but if you had it, you would pop it early, especially on AOE encounters. I don't think assassins are bad at AOE encounters, we're just not great at it. Especially if they are short you shouldn't be giving up too much to them. I can do a lot of dps in Lyceum, even if it's not the best on those groups. With hemotoxin and using your 2 AOE attacks to maximize hits, you should be parsing pretty high on those. On the fights where there's a few mobs that don't die fast, then you will see other classes do better.
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Old 04-24-2007, 04:58 PM   #8
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Yikes, thats a lot of melee dps in those groups, wow. You should try to trade some of that melee for some casters and healers =). Ok, overall tips for DPS. #1 USE POISONS ALWAYS!!! #2 Str/Int AA lines #3 Aim for gear with STR/INT, lots of good stuff out there, including some of the relic/nemesis gear which is semi common in KOS raids. #4 Get your DT reward for some haste, and try to get in groups that boost your str (templar/zerk do this well). Dirge/Warden are also great group mates for assassins as they can increase your melee skills as well as your proc %. make a friend with an illusionist for 50% extra haste. #5 You want a weapon with a slow delay, if you cant get a good one like Grinning dirk, wurmslayer is questable and you can get your dt updates at the same time you get wurmslayer updates. #6 Masters, lots of them. The t6 ones are so [Removed for Content] expensive, but quite worth it. I cant count the plat I have used on masters. #7 Dont be cheap, get your adorns. Yeah, they can be expensive but several only require 1 powder to make (str for wrists, int for ears, sta boots, agi gloves str legs ect ect). The stats from the treasured adorns alone are worth it. Also get health adorns for your rings to give a little extra power for taking damage when in doing melee. #8 Grandmaster's elixer of tactics or elixer of fortitude for extra crit or str, if you are under like 650-700 str use fortitude. #9 In the process of getting gear, look for stuff with good stats and +pierce. No particular order on those, just lots of information I have found along the way to be important. Hopefully there is something in there you can use =). Also, send tells to the assassin who is outparsing you during the raid, ask questions which require long answers . If you can get him typing maybe you can get his parse down =).
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Old 04-24-2007, 11:41 PM   #9
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my tip is... Masked Attack + Puncture Blade every 10 seconds, combine it with Exacting often. Malignant Mark is your friend. Also, and it may sound [Removed for Content] but I notice this a LOT with people who find their parse is far lower than it should be - make sure you're in auto-attack range, your CAs have more range than your weapons.
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Old 04-25-2007, 01:10 AM   #10
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I set up a chat window that only shows my combat hits and misses so i can see when I'm in auto-attack range.  So, I figured that one out already. 

 I wont be able to log into the game again until the weekend, but my self buffed str is in the middle 300 range.  Raid buffed depends, the last raid i was around 500.  I think I've been as high as 650.  Weapons are adamantium dragonfang from labs, and bloodspiller from unrest.  AA lines, Str/INT.  I maxed out the crit chance on both of them and put the extra points directly into str and int.  On the EOF AA, I got the excessive bleeding ability, and I'm working on frontload.  I skipped the hemotoxin upgrade, but i plan to max it out once i get all my AA. 

I always use 3 poisons.  Usually turgur, gracelessness, and hemotoxin on raids.  When there are a lot of scouts, some of us use a warding ebb, or enfeebling because we're not sure how well the poisons stack.  But I never use those stat potions.  Gunna have to look them up when i get back in game.  

 I like the idea of sending the other assassin tells.  It fits with our class.  Win the parse by any means necesary.  If they ever group me with him, I'm putting the hate transfer on him too. 

And the only reason i dont have any adornments on is because my gear is still mostly treasured/legendary.  I dont have that kind of cash to spend on gear that i hope to replace everytime I join a group. 

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Old 04-25-2007, 04:12 AM   #11
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For poisons, use GM caustic until you get 5 hemotoxin AA. You're hurting yourself without it. 300 STR is very low self-buffed. Without great raid gear, 500 is a good target. You can get that just by farming legendary items from group zones. STR is almost more important than any other stat, especially if you're low on it. Spending some time farming those zones for some gear would be very useful. And it's free, except for your time. I'd consider getting some of the more important adornments unless your gear is total trash/replaced. For example, i'd get the +str treasured adornments, and seriously consider the +10 dps ones. (they are fabled but if you farm instances for a while you should get enough cash to pay for them, or create the transmute pieces from masters/legendary trash)
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Old 04-25-2007, 04:34 AM   #12
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-=Hoss=- wrote:
jugular (M2)
Mark gives us our most zonewide dps, I would highly suggest picking that as your M2. Get ACT if you don't have it already.  Compare your damage breakdown with the assassin who's outparsing you.  Also look at your hit % - if it's low you want to hunt down some +pierce gear. Use your temp buffs every time they are up.  I use honed and focus on the same fight, exacting on a diff fight. 
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:11 AM   #13
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Aye getting master 2 mark is almost a must have as an assassin, its gonna do a whole lot of dmg for ya.

Try and get masters as much as ya can, they are a big help, seeing how most of those masters are around 100-200 added dmg to most abilites at least, higher on the big hits. So there worth it.

Always make sure ya got your poisons up, and make sure ya don't let those short duration buffs such as exacting, honed reflexes, and deadly focus go unused. Use em as often as ya can unless you know theirs gonna be a named coming up in the next 5 minutes or so.

Also whats your AA setup on your assassin line from EoF?

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Old 04-26-2007, 08:21 PM   #14
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groups are pretty important. I personally like being with a Zerker, Fury and illusionist.  I like as much haste as i can get, and as much STR as I can get. Gear is quite important, more important than skill i think.  (unless the skill gap is huge) .. generally by level 70 most assassins are knowing how to play their class, enough to parse well anyhow.  Yes the 4K parses come from those with extraordinary skill, but they also have the best equipment.
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Old 04-27-2007, 12:15 PM   #15
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Sirlutt wrote:
...Yes the 4K parses come from those with extraordinary skill, but they also have the best equipment.
Or they got lucky or did a well timed decapitate on a very short fight.  There are a lot of variables that go into how the numbers come up, so numbers mean very little unless you have the whole picture.
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Old 04-27-2007, 04:28 PM   #16
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I would like to hear further commentary on auto attack.

I'm just coming up to being t7 raidable so I'm still learning.

Being within auto attack range is very important and obvious... although in the thick of things I think I may be out.

The question I have is I heard I need to time my attacks to fall inbetween my autoattacks as they interupt auto attack.  If this is true... then firing off a string of attacks make your autoattack useless during that time (unless it lands inbetween attacks).

 Comments?

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Old 04-27-2007, 08:01 PM   #17
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That's not a problem with almost all of your attacks, unless you have very fast weapons. You might want to take it into account when using a longer CA like Slaughtersault.
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Old 04-27-2007, 09:47 PM   #18
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4k zonewide is baloney.  if you got an impossible group designed for you with perfect pull times and you waited for your spells between pulls I can see it.  so anyway its baloney.  my advice is: 1.) - Never believe anyone's parse numbers on these boards.  Even if they aren't lying through their teeth those numbers should mean nothing to you.  Don't get discouraged.  Most people make up numbers on here.  I've called these con artists on all the boards on numerous occasions and have yet to see one person respond with a graphic of their dps breakdown. 2.) - You're in a lucky situation.  You have a decent parsing assassin who's brain you can pick.  Run a parser and look at the logs.  Copy that assassin's CA order.  Watch what he leads with, when he moves in with CA, and so on.  No sense re-inventing the wheel.  Starting your CAs as soon as possible is key.  Push your tanks aggro until you know where you stand.  (Note : you will probably die once or twice.  If you are raiding get used to it). 3.) - Item lables mean nothing.  Wear treasured if it's better.  I value items as follows : proc > crit > str > +piercing > resists > power > hp.  In particular the dumb orb collection quest and the league updates (2 jewelry items with 2% crit each) are nice treasured items. 4.) - Other people have mentioned it.  STR is ultra important.  It affects all your damage.  Get up to 750 minimal in raids.
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Old 04-28-2007, 12:57 AM   #19
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Wait a min, str affects combat arts too? -t
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Old 04-28-2007, 11:27 AM   #20
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STR affects everything but poison pretty much.
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