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Old 10-09-2012, 04:07 PM   #31
Ulrichvon

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Natsume wrote:

decator666 wrote:

Also...Something that annoys me to death is when I raise my spells keep changing so my expert skills have moved back down to apprentice...I'm to the point now of not wanting to waste my resources making upgrade books anymore...it's quite expensive...Wish they would just make 1 level of things and let it go...there's gotta be a better way...

Thanks for all the info though!  I also appreciate the constructive info here...I admit I am a complete newb in all ways of adventuring as I am mainly a crafter.

I can't find a word for how much I agree! I am afraid to buy (can't craft) them spell books or even waste re search time and they will go all the way back to apprentice after they are upgraded, this system really is discouraging!

There is much about the game in lower tiers that makes little since to pay attention to.  Gear and abilities both are eclipsed in just a few hours of playtime, so upgrading them doesn't make much sense.

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Old 10-09-2012, 04:47 PM   #32
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gourdon wrote:

My main is an Assassin, the melee pair to the Ranger and my #2 is a Shadowknight.  Both are level 92 - 320AA, but I have far better gear on my Assassin than I do on my Shadowknight.  Even though this is the case, my Shadowknight can get more done in the game than the Assassin.  The only reason my Shadowknight is my #2 is that I've done a lot in the game with my Assassin and I'm very attached to the character.  The reason you might not realize your Shadowknight will be actually better than your Ranger is that you don't have all of the AA survivability buffs yet and really just have no idea as to how to play a tank yet.  By level 80, if you max out AAs and pick the right ones, there will be no comparison between a Ranger and a Shadowknight, even a healer merc can't make up the difference for the Ranger.

I am planning on playing my SK next.  He is only level 47 and does do okay but not huge damage thus far.  He is an armorer so he has all the plate gear he needs...(unless crafted gear is lacking??)...Well my ranger has great features in her tree and all of my favorite attacks are upgradeable in the tree...So I guess that is appealing too...Take my guardian for instance in his tree is crapola to upgrade so I mostly have him in the warden tree...But I didn't create a gard to tank I created a gard to suvive.

The same with my SK...I'm not planning to do any tanking as I hate to tank.  Did it and hated it because you get blamed if the battle is lost no matter what happens...and I was a fairly good Pally tank on WoW...but it was just too high stress and more like a job than a game hehe.

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Old 10-09-2012, 04:54 PM   #33
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[email protected] wrote:

decator666 wrote:

That's really good to know.  I think I got a little crazy with my warden and crafted expert upgrades to like 8 spells because I assumed (maybe a big mistake) that by 86 he will be done with those spells and not have them changed up on him the next few raises...

From now on I will just wait till last tier to expert things and just cope with journeyman...But I was just noticing that the difference in damage seemed quite a bit higher from apprentice to expert so hence...thought it would help my underdamage warden to do more dps...I will have to look at my scribes apprentice training..I didn't notice there were spells to research...I was thinking it was charms or something else irrelevant to his career (really annoys me that my research spells are not relevant to my career)

Thanks so much for this info.

Now I do not suggest to ever run with just apprentices =) they are bare bones & get resisted too often. Tradeskill apprentices just do crafting recipes. I was refering to researching, in your knowledge tab where your spells are, research is a button up there, gives a full list of all your spells you could possibly upgrade via that method. It's mostly used to get masters without having to wait for them to drop or paying through the nose for them. It can take a long time at higher levels but if you are short on cash, it's a good way to get experts mastered.

Also, you did say you were leveling things slowly, if you are doing that do harvesting as you go, especially if you are crafting as well. I ...have a crafting & harvesting problem and found that just running quests in SF/Withered Lands harvesting things I ran across I got quite a few rares. They weren't always the ones I want, but if one was so inclined they could always sell the other rares for cash to buy ones you need.

Once you are in the 80s you should be getting everything to expert due to the difficulty of the content at that level (focusing on your most important spells first & leaving others until last, everyclass has some spells that get used almost never).  I suppose if you solo all the time it wouldn't matter as much, but if you do any grouping at all it's well worth it.

Also, in the current game with the level cap at 92 level 82 will have the last spell that will be getting an upgrade as you level up (until the level cap raises).

By going melee with your warden you would also eliminate the need to spend lots on upgrades for the spell versions of the melee attacks you get. That would be what? Four rares that could be spent on something else? If you are low on cash, selling shinies, adepts & such helps. If you have a carp (and it sounds like you do) sell building blocks & tiles.

Ah yes...I did get that mixed up...I do always have my research going...and yes it's like 13 days I think in the 80's...and sometimes by the time it's done a new level of it already opened up haha...but i do spend a bit of SC on those research speed potions...

Yes I harvest and craft alot...I am always picking up especially wood and roots for the rares and for the actual resources to stock up my guild box and my home boxes...Yep I'm crafter mostly that's why I'm slow...All but 1 of my char has 92 crafting (my newest from last week).  But you can get from 1-92 crafting in a week easily...(at least for me)...

Well I'm happy to hear 82 is where they finally stop ruining my expert spells yay...I just hope 93-95 brings new spells rather than upgrades (wishful thinking)...Yep I have a carp...hmm good advice I never know what is worth making to sell.  I was making a bit of money on arrows but the undercutters made the price not worth the trouble anymore.  (how people make money on the auction I'll never understand hehe)

Thanks for the tips!

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Old 10-09-2012, 04:57 PM   #34
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Ulrichvon wrote:

I don't really get it, all of those classes can be spec'd and played to put out decent dps.   Perhaps the OP needs to learn mechanics a bit more.

Hence why I'm asking the question.  As I said, my ranger does huge DPS while my other classes so far are noticeably weaker...and I do know how to play RPG games as I have been doing it for 20+ years...Just asking for some tips...

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Old 10-09-2012, 05:00 PM   #35
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Freejazzlive wrote:

All I can say is this: if you think Troubies don't do enough damage, or that they can't take a hit, then you're doing something seriously wrong. I solo'd 90 freekin' levels on mine before even hiring a mercenary.

IMO, there is no class that's more fun than Troubador.

I like my troub quite a bit...BUT he doesn't hold a candle to my rangers DPS...But he is only 34.  And yes I'm sure I'm doing many things seriously wrong even with my ranger...But my point is my ranger still does amazing DPS and does not need a merc except on heroic quests or huge battle quests...

I loved the bard in Vanguard...being able to create your own songs and control damage, healing etc was so much fun...I'm so far a little disappointed in that aspect being missing...And i wish troubs/bards did actually put out music with their instruments...ah yes role playing hehe...

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Old 10-09-2012, 05:05 PM   #36
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The healer takes the blame much more here. Good healers are taken for granted until a rubbish one joins the group. No real point playing any fighter to cap if you don't want to tank. At lower levels it doesn't matter as you have to really try to group or just solo all the way. At cap you need to group. Your ranger wont be weak at cap. I play a ranger and we dish out some serious damage. But we're squishy and easy to kill. So where a well played SK can kill plenty of level 80 raid mobs, that used to need 24 people to kill, on their own, a ranger will need a tank or healer to help unless they have the top top gear. If the enemy isn't beating on us though, we will always destroy it quicker than most.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:08 PM   #37
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Natsume wrote:

decator666 wrote:

Also...Something that annoys me to death is when I raise my spells keep changing so my expert skills have moved back down to apprentice...I'm to the point now of not wanting to waste my resources making upgrade books anymore...it's quite expensive...Wish they would just make 1 level of things and let it go...there's gotta be a better way...

Thanks for all the info though!  I also appreciate the constructive info here...I admit I am a complete newb in all ways of adventuring as I am mainly a crafter.

I can't find a word for how much I agree! I am afraid to buy (can't craft) them spell books or even waste re search time and they will go all the way back to apprentice after they are upgraded, this system really is discouraging!

Oh and I never knew that by betraying, you change class, since I am an evil Guardian what will I change too?

Haha at least it's not just me then...It's the one thing I dread about raising is that my expert/grandmaster spells go back to apprentice...and then i have 2 copies of them until the new one gets as good or better than my old one...

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Old 10-09-2012, 05:13 PM   #38
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Regolas wrote:

The healer takes the blame much more here. Good healers are taken for granted until a rubbish one joins the group. No real point playing any fighter to cap if you don't want to tank. At lower levels it doesn't matter as you have to really try to group or just solo all the way. At cap you need to group. Your ranger wont be weak at cap. I play a ranger and we dish out some serious damage. But we're squishy and easy to kill. So where a well played SK can kill plenty of level 80 raid mobs, that used to need 24 people to kill, on their own, a ranger will need a tank or healer to help unless they have the top top gear. If the enemy isn't beating on us though, we will always destroy it quicker than most.

Oh that's good to hear...I really don't have an issue with my ranger being squishy thus far...My stealth strikes generally take mobs down to 1/2 - 1/4 life and my heart shot (I forget the name of it) generally kills them...even elite mobs...It's just amazing to me...

Well, I was planning on working my guard to higher levels last ... for now he sits and just raises AA on dailies haha.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:05 PM   #39
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Freejazzlive wrote:

All I can say is this: if you think Troubies don't do enough damage, or that they can't take a hit, then you're doing something seriously wrong. I solo'd 90 freekin' levels on mine before even hiring a mercenary.

IMO, there is no class that's more fun than Troubador.

When did you start playing your Troub? I started my bard way back at launch and he's been sitting on the shelf for ages because doing anything solo on either bard used to be less fun than poking rusty forks into your eyeballs.

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Old 10-10-2012, 11:19 AM   #40
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ZachSpastic wrote:

Freejazzlive wrote:

All I can say is this: if you think Troubies don't do enough damage, or that they can't take a hit, then you're doing something seriously wrong. I solo'd 90 freekin' levels on mine before even hiring a mercenary.

IMO, there is no class that's more fun than Troubador.

When did you start playing your Troub? I started my bard way back at launch and he's been sitting on the shelf for ages because doing anything solo on either bard used to be less fun than poking rusty forks into your eyeballs.

This Troubie, I started since the game went F2P. Can't remember the exact date.

My other Troubie, on Mistmoore/Permafrost, I haven't played in about 4 years now I think, but I believe he was started in 2006-07. I solo'd that character to level 80. Of course, then I couldn't do dungeons by myself, but I could easily solo. The only part that gave me trouble at all was having to learn how to circle-kite to get through Kylong Plains; after that it was ez-breezy all the way to 80.Bards don't do the same DPS as a ranger, but that's not the same as saying they don't do enough damage, & IMO they're far more versatile, & more desirable in the high-level game. Add a mercenary to a modern Bard & you can happily, effectively, easily solo for ages & ages. That's why I don't understand people who think Bards aren't fun to play; I've never found any other class, except possibly Swashy, to be as enjoyable.& frankly, you couldn't pay me to play a Ranger. Different players are different, I guess.

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Old 10-10-2012, 12:40 PM   #41
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Freejazzlive wrote:

ZachSpastic wrote:

Freejazzlive wrote:

All I can say is this: if you think Troubies don't do enough damage, or that they can't take a hit, then you're doing something seriously wrong. I solo'd 90 freekin' levels on mine before even hiring a mercenary.

IMO, there is no class that's more fun than Troubador.

When did you start playing your Troub? I started my bard way back at launch and he's been sitting on the shelf for ages because doing anything solo on either bard used to be less fun than poking rusty forks into your eyeballs.

This Troubie, I started since the game went F2P. Can't remember the exact date.

My other Troubie, on Mistmoore/Permafrost, I haven't played in about 4 years now I think, but I believe he was started in 2006-07. I solo'd that character to level 80. Of course, then I couldn't do dungeons by myself, but I could easily solo. The only part that gave me trouble at all was having to learn how to circle-kite to get through Kylong Plains; after that it was ez-breezy all the way to 80.Bards don't do the same DPS as a ranger, but that's not the same as saying they don't do enough damage, & IMO they're far more versatile, & more desirable in the high-level game. Add a mercenary to a modern Bard & you can happily, effectively, easily solo for ages & ages. That's why I don't understand people who think Bards aren't fun to play; I've never found any other class, except possibly Swashy, to be as enjoyable.& frankly, you couldn't pay me to play a Ranger. Different players are different, I guess.

That's how I generally feel about the ranger...I have never played a ranger I enjoy until this game...They are generally a low damage, squishy, boring, annoying class.  I was just blown away how much damage and hits my ranger could take.  But yes different strokes for different folks.

I do like my troub thus far but I haven't played him high enough to know how well I will like him and yes he is on my list to level up to 92.

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