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Old 09-09-2012, 02:41 PM   #1
Drew1

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in order to increase open world pvp you must do the following; Remove Bgs, Remove guild halls, remove open world transport IE bells and go back to spires and such; and bring the immunity down from 1 minute to 30 secconds; this will definitly increase open world pvp and would bring life back to the game that used to be amazing back in t7/t8.

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Old 09-10-2012, 11:29 AM   #2
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Drew1 wrote:

in order to increase open world pvp you must do the following; Remove Bgs, Remove guild halls, remove open world transport IE bells and go back to spires and such; and bring the immunity down from 1 minute to 30 secconds; this will definitly increase open world pvp and would bring life back to the game that used to be amazing back in t7/t8.

Remove Bgs ----> Stupid idea

Remove guild halls ----> Stupid idea

Remove open world transport ----> Very stupid idea

Bring inmunity down to 1 min----> will change nothing,

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Old 09-10-2012, 06:13 PM   #3
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Drew1 wrote:

in order to increase open world pvp you must do the following; Remove Bgs, Remove guild halls, remove open world transport IE bells and go back to spires and such; and bring the immunity down from 1 minute to 30 secconds; this will definitly increase open world pvp and would bring life back to the game that used to be amazing back in t7/t8.

all awsom ideas!!!! the bell thing might be a bit harsh tbh you might want to remove flight in pvp hot zones but its all been said over and over and over again   the cow is the stupid one here

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Old 09-10-2012, 06:48 PM   #4
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Might as well delete the server with these changes.  I find it hard to believe that removing any of these will save the server.  Look at how the game is now.  If people truly wanted to open world pvp, would champions respite be full of naggy players at all times?  If people wanted open pvp would everyone be on one side in massive population imbalances, or would they log out as soon as warfields ended?

The game was never designed for pvp, but they tacked it on and for a while it was a blast.  However, skill bloat has ruined any meaningful pvp.  If you were to begin limiting the content available to the pvp server at this point, there would likely be more people leaving naggy for a blue server than you would gain.

I mean, by all means, continue to ask for the game to remove all the end game features and conveniences, but should it happen and everyone leaves to bg when they want without repercussions, dont cry about being alone.

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Old 09-10-2012, 07:36 PM   #5
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Lucky u two dont get paid to think here. Just wanted splain u with few words, but looks i have to go deeper.

Remove Bgs ----> Then ppl will move they chars to pve server, reroll there or just stop play and go GW2. Soo less ppl in server to pvp with.

Remove guild halls ----> That mean u want ppl log off instead go AFK in hall??That also mean that u want remove houses?? Will be nice see prices on crafting items on server then.

Remove open world transport ----> Just very stupid idea lol. All u want is ppl take more time to move around world. Impact in game, none, just more waste of time to move.

Bring inmunity down to 1 min----> will change nothing, only more free dead when u crash after port( that looks happen a lot latey)

Soo the gnome that tell u how fix the game for pvp server will kill the server...

The problem in Nagg dont is BGs at all, is the ppl that play here. Go BGs is the easy way to get decent pvp, or the only way if u think little.

WFs is just a zerg fest, where u get a doble x4 of Qs with few leecher moving as lemmings to tower A then tower B with some raid add of exilies. Soo pvp there is lag fest where all u do is spam u AE spells to the few Freeps around and to the exilies. I can feel u play Q side dont u? ;P

Anyway, open pvp atm is w8 hiden till some1 engage to a mob or just run behind he some mins till he can evac / port / fly or till he meet some friend to hunt u. Then only pvp u can find is when u farming in SS with a group and u meet other group, that is just a lame work to get the other team with mobs then attack.

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Old 09-10-2012, 07:56 PM   #6
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CowControl wrote:

Lucky u two dont get paid to think here. Just wanted splain u with few words, but looks i have to go deeper.

Remove Bgs ----> Then ppl will move they chars to pve server, reroll there or just stop play and go GW2. Soo less ppl in server to pvp with.

Remove guild halls ----> That mean u want ppl log off instead go AFK in hall??That also mean that u want remove houses?? Will be nice see prices on crafting items on server then.

Remove open world transport ----> Just very stupid idea lol. All u want is ppl take more time to move around world. Impact in game, none, just more waste of time to move.

Bring inmunity down to 1 min----> will change nothing, only more free dead when u crash after port( that looks happen a lot latey)

Soo the gnome that tell u how fix the game for pvp server will kill the server...

The problem in Nagg dont is BGs at all, is the ppl that play here. Go BGs is the easy way to get decent pvp, or the only way if u think little.

WFs is just a zerg fest, where u get a doble x4 of Qs with few leecher moving as lemmings to tower A then tower B with some raid add of exilies. Soo pvp there is lag fest where all u do is spam u AE spells to the few Freeps around and to the exilies. I can feel u play Q side dont u? ;P

Anyway, open pvp atm is w8 hiden till some1 engage to a mob or just run behind he some mins till he can evac / port / fly or till he meet some friend to hunt u. Then only pvp u can find is when u farming in SS with a group and u meet other group, that is just a lame work to get the other team with mobs then attack.

Actually not entirely.  Removing some of the capabilities to move around would force players to stay in the world for transport (with spires taking a few minutes and boats needing to be waited for, etc) and would as well cause more people to be interacting and fighting.

Reducing the immunity timers along with that means that people wouldn't be able to run from one side of a zone to the other while still in immunity so as to make it much more likely that they will be engaged by another player.

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Old 09-10-2012, 09:20 PM   #7
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[email protected] wrote:

CowControl wrote:

Lucky u two dont get paid to think here. Just wanted splain u with few words, but looks i have to go deeper.

Remove Bgs ----> Then ppl will move they chars to pve server, reroll there or just stop play and go GW2. Soo less ppl in server to pvp with.

Remove guild halls ----> That mean u want ppl log off instead go AFK in hall??That also mean that u want remove houses?? Will be nice see prices on crafting items on server then.

Remove open world transport ----> Just very stupid idea lol. All u want is ppl take more time to move around world. Impact in game, none, just more waste of time to move.

Bring inmunity down to 1 min----> will change nothing, only more free dead when u crash after port( that looks happen a lot latey)

Soo the gnome that tell u how fix the game for pvp server will kill the server...

The problem in Nagg dont is BGs at all, is the ppl that play here. Go BGs is the easy way to get decent pvp, or the only way if u think little.

WFs is just a zerg fest, where u get a doble x4 of Qs with few leecher moving as lemmings to tower A then tower B with some raid add of exilies. Soo pvp there is lag fest where all u do is spam u AE spells to the few Freeps around and to the exilies. I can feel u play Q side dont u? ;P

Anyway, open pvp atm is w8 hiden till some1 engage to a mob or just run behind he some mins till he can evac / port / fly or till he meet some friend to hunt u. Then only pvp u can find is when u farming in SS with a group and u meet other group, that is just a lame work to get the other team with mobs then attack.

Actually not entirely.  Removing some of the capabilities to move around would force players to stay in the world for transport (with spires taking a few minutes and boats needing to be waited for, etc) and would as well cause more people to be interacting and fighting.

Reducing the immunity timers along with that means that people wouldn't be able to run from one side of a zone to the other while still in immunity so as to make it much more likely that they will be engaged by another player.

Will change nothing, ppl still dont engage if they dont want to...

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Old 09-10-2012, 09:33 PM   #8
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Gona tell u more easy, if u want ppl do open pvp again, u need give then a reason for. That is how things work. Do u wanna a good idea that will not happen, to make ppl do open pvp?? Make cities be attacable, where u can raid there to get gear (ppl will do even for appareaceitems if they are cute). Make guild halls be attacable, where u can get gear and lest say a banner from that guild to add in u guild hall to tell all ppl u owned that guild x times ;p U can add some siege toys and buy guards and stuff, just like RvR games are, and u will get ppl doing it, but... then u will whine cos ppl do it while u are sleeping...

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Old 09-10-2012, 09:53 PM   #9
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cow is clearly someone who just started playing; and probably a Qeynosian lolol clearly you never played back in 2008-2007 when game was at its prime?

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Old 09-10-2012, 10:13 PM   #10
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Drew1 wrote:

cow is clearly someone who just started playing; and probably a Qeynosian lolol clearly you never played back in 2008-2007 when game was at its prime?

No, sorry, im in Freeps side. And yes, im new to game, just 2 years but im allerady 20 playing RvR / PvP games. Cleary i know more that u on how things work here I can advice u, games is allways same, learn adapt to changes or move on next game.

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/ponder

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Old 09-10-2012, 10:50 PM   #11
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If Nagafen players couldn't do BGs there would be no one to fill BG groups with.

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Old 09-10-2012, 10:53 PM   #12
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CowControl wrote:

Drew1 wrote:

cow is clearly someone who just started playing; and probably a Qeynosian lolol clearly you never played back in 2008-2007 when game was at its prime?

No, sorry, im in Freeps side. And yes, im new to game, just 2 years but im allerady 20 playing RvR / PvP games. Cleary i know more that u on how things work here I can advice u, games is allways same, learn adapt to changes or move on next game.

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/ponder

Don't be stupid please; my join date on these forums has nothing to do with how long I've been playing game; my other account from 2004 is banned so please look less dumb; besides everyone knows who I am; regardless your answers are stupid; it would increase open world pvp; all the bgs are filled with nagafen players imagine if ppl had to go out and pvp like the good ole days; it would be x2-x8s of qeys running around getting ownd by the exiles...the good ole days.

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Old 09-10-2012, 11:03 PM   #13
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CowControl wrote:

Remove Bgs ----> Then ppl will move they chars to pve server, reroll there or just stop play and go GW2. Soo less ppl in server to pvp with.

What, precisely, would be the difference between that situation & the current one?

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Old 09-10-2012, 11:06 PM   #14
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CowControl wrote:

Make guild halls be attacable

But then all guild halls will be locked to members only, no visitors allowed. So much for that.

You want to give people a reason to do open-world PvP? Get rid of the instanced token grind that's currently called "Battlegrounds."

Or, just get rid of Nagafen -- it's not like people actually use it for a PvP server.

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Old 09-10-2012, 11:48 PM   #15
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Freejazzlive wrote:

CowControl wrote:

Remove Bgs ----> Then ppl will move they chars to pve server, reroll there or just stop play and go GW2. Soo less ppl in server to pvp with.

What, precisely, would be the difference between that situation & the current one?

And what will change to good close BGs for nagg? U really think that ppl that enjoy do BGs will play open only cos other dont like it?

Freejazzlive wrote:

CowControl wrote:

Make guild halls be attacable

But then all guild halls will be locked to members only, no visitors allowed. So much for that.

You want to give people a reason to do open-world PvP? Get rid of the instanced token grind that's currently called "Battlegrounds."

Or, just get rid of Nagafen -- it's not like people actually use it for a PvP server.

Well, i dont really care if my guild hall have visitors. But dont have to... just make u faction side be allowed enter only. Anyway, was just an example that i allready say not will happen, cos the siegue will need be instance bassed since eq based world is and be sure EQ team will not do extra job for a small server only.

What is diference to run "instanced token grinds" and join da zerg to do "open token grind" called wf?? I can tell u, in one u play in balanced numbers and the other u play x4 double raid Vs 6 group man that will die and stay dead till WF end... that is if they not crash due to lag.

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Old 09-11-2012, 12:07 AM   #16
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Drew1 wrote:

CowControl wrote:

Drew1 wrote:

cow is clearly someone who just started playing; and probably a Qeynosian lolol clearly you never played back in 2008-2007 when game was at its prime?

No, sorry, im in Freeps side. And yes, im new to game, just 2 years but im allerady 20 playing RvR / PvP games. Cleary i know more that u on how things work here I can advice u, games is allways same, learn adapt to changes or move on next game.

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/ponder

Don't be stupid please; my join date on these forums has nothing to do with how long I've been playing game; my other account from 2004 is banned so please look less dumb; besides everyone knows who I am; regardless your answers are stupid; it would increase open world pvp; all the bgs are filled with nagafen players imagine if ppl had to go out and pvp like the good ole days; it would be x2-x8s of qeys running around getting ownd by the exiles...the good ole days.

Ah well, u are banned and im who looks dumb..? sure.

Stupid answers for stupid questions.

Maybe u rage cos ppl from blue servers kill u??

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Old 09-11-2012, 02:58 AM   #17
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It's real sad that we have a server designated for pvp and people don't pvp. Why have a toon on here in the first place if all your gonna do is BGs? BGs should only be for non pvp servers, people who don't have the tempermant for the wild 'west' pvp but want 'controlled' pvp.

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Old 09-11-2012, 04:34 AM   #18
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thephantomposter wrote:

It's real sad that we have a server designated for pvp and people don't pvp. Why have a toon on here in the first place if all your gonna do is BGs? BGs should only be for non pvp servers, people who don't have the tempermant for the wild 'west' pvp but want 'controlled' pvp.

Im agree there, but remove BG dont will fix it. When AoD come out there was pvp all day (and stillthere sometimes). When etherals have no rtard drop rate find some pvp was easy if u know where hunt. When new stuff come out, ppl will get out of BGs, till then, nothing better to do ;P

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Old 09-11-2012, 10:03 AM   #19
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CowControl wrote:

What is diference to run "instanced token grinds" and join da zerg to do "open token grind" called wf??

I didn't say anything at all about warfields, but the way they're run, they're just as artificial & dull as the BGs.

As I said in another thread, instanced PvP gives SOE the incentive to not give people anything to do in the outside world, which is why people don't do open-world PvP. But hey, if you guys really do like instanced token grinds .......

They ought to turn Naggy into a Blue server, since functionally it already is.

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Old 09-11-2012, 06:48 PM   #20
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guild halls shouldnt be removed, but their global travel amenities should be (on PvP servers only, of course)

warfields shouldve never been implemented with so terribly mundane an objective & reward scheme, & must be removed because of this

open world PvPing should reward a lot more tokens per kill (50-100, because finding consistent PvP is nearly impossible compared to finding consistent battlegrounds queues), & the rewards shouldnt be divided relative to the aggressing encounter size (30 or 35 tokens from a solo kill become 5 or 10 or something stupid ATM -- geez, what's the most intelligent route to obtaining PvP gear, then?)

& battlegrounds should be limited to tuesdays/wednesdays for Nagafen

the pvp rank system is also pathetic & will never promote casuals progressing through it due to fame ALWAYS being at risk

have mentioned all these points before, but it's absolutely irrelevant IMO, as the vision/design lead for EQ2 PvP is entirely incompetent, or limited in their funds for capital & authority to restructure.

CowControl wrote:

What is diference to run "instanced token grinds" and join da zerg to do "open token grind" called wf?? I can tell u, in one u play in balanced numbers and the other u play x4 double raid Vs 6 group man that will die and stay dead till WF end... that is if they not crash due to lag.

point is that the pvp rank system used to support more strategic planning & anxious vendettas (which also spawned even irrelevant to the PvP rank system due to world PvP simply being more popular), on top of the 3 faction DICHOTOMY

when you enter battlegrounds, it's always the same environment & the numerical odds are always predictable, which is lame & a distance from the reward of faction communication/teamwork

but imo eq2 sucks now & ill probably never play again due to terribly botched balancing in "integrating PvE/PvP" damage mechanics...

· potency has a higher cap than crit bonus

· crit bonus' cap is too low

· multi-attack/flurry are capped too low

· pve/raid gear didnt get reduced "in pvp" stats to make it equal to old DoV PvP gear (meaning PvEing is the fastest way to PvP competency -- if PvEers fear PvP gear will be too strong compared to PvE gear, then just make PvP gear weaker in its normal state, & stronger in its "In PvP" state)

· lethality/toughness are worthless

· lowbie pvp gear still has toughness, which was made to offset LVL 80+ crit bonus during Sentinel's Fate (dah pehaorjoaerokeaok? rike 4 rRyz?)

now my SK's bowshot blows & that was like, the only thing that gave me any chance at impact in an engagement.

SKs just feel like fodder, but maybe it's the fact that mages are OP & PvE gear has a crap ton more HP than old pvp gear & heroic DoV PvE gear

like my post if u kry ery time

also, if people are farming alts for PvP tokens, then rollbacks need to happen

and mercs still being viable in pvp is obviously unacceptable

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Old 09-12-2012, 05:03 PM   #21
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The problem is not BGs, WFs, or any other game mechanic. The problem is the player base. In SOEs defense they have tried to revive open world pvp with player token drops, pvp hot zones and the recent update which added 3 tiers of pvp gear for 92s. It seems to me that 85 to 90% of the server is not interested in open world pvp for reasons unknown to myself. Our group goes to Qeynos almost everyday and most times stand on the docks for a hour maybe getting one kill, waiting for the rare time that a group might actually come to fight us. 

The faction balance is a whole other story, the Qeynos side for the most part seems to only want to burn towers with massive numbers and then zone out fast as possible. You even have people attacking the tower/camping, attacking the tower/camping and hiding inside the tower to avoid pvp (pvp is scary I guess). Of course not all of the Qs are like that, some do stay after towers go down and fight, but they are a small percentage. 

Alt farmers. Why this has not been dealt with yet blows my mind. I guess since it is more easy and risk free to farm your alts, what is the need to look for pvp right? This is the biggest problem on Nagafen at the moment and is absolutely ruining the pvp server. Like I said, the problem is the player base, for people to choose alt farming over open world pvp for token generation answers many of the "what happened to EQ2 pvp" questions. 

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Old 09-12-2012, 05:52 PM   #22
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First off, I have perused these forums for quite a while, and have held my tongue thus far... but today I shall break my silence, and state why I think removing BGs from Nagafen is a terrible idea:

 1.)- There are many of us on Nagafen who actually enjoy the competition and fast paced action of BGs. Heck I think it would be a great idea if SOE would add Tournament ladders and such, so that guilds can fight other guilds (reliably that is, the current queueing system does not guarantee that two premade groups will land in the same match to play against each other).

2.)- Warfields do not equal "open world" pvp in my opinion, though it does take place in the open, it is a structured event that happens reliably every two hours. Open world pvp to me is that heart pounding moment when you walk around a corner in a contested area to stumble across an enemy of your faction. Some of the greatest fun (win or lose) that I've ever experienced in this game came from these encounters, and sadly they grow farther and farther apart each day.

3.)- The current travel system is probably one of the top 3 reasons for the lack of honest to goodness open world pvp. Players can walk right up to the portals in their guild hall, and enter almost any zone from it, without having to travel across any overland zones. Big, big openworld pvp killer right there, and it is very unlikely that it will be changed.

4.)- Powerleveling allows people to effectively skip the dungeon crawl, and basically go straight to endgame, without actually casting a single spell with their character. The mentoring/chrono system needs a major overhaul (and I know it would make a lot of people mad, but this is responsible for a lot of zones being barren). The majority of game content at lower levels is contested, and therefore led to the best pvp experiences. Which leads me to my next point:

5.)- For openworld pvp to make any sort of comeback, we need some meaningful contested content, not just a faction grinding timesink where we run around in circles killing the same mobs over and over and over. We need adornment quests, quests for items that are unique for our class (rather than the one-size-fits-all stuff that we get these days), and contested dungeons that give good loots. I know it's unlikely that anything I've said will happen, but here's hoping.

6.)- Add addition pvp events to the gameworld. Maybe an event in which each faction must defend their city against the opposing faction, and gains rewards for doing so (perhaps some tokens, and an adornment, or some other items that are useful in pvp). Add more of these types of events to add to the world pvp events. Warfield just simply isn't enough (especially since its 50Q's vs 15 FP's vs 1000 Exiles).

7.)- The points I have made so far have a far greater impact on openworld pvp than BGs do. Before the recent updates to BGs, pvp gear, etc., BGs were dead, and openworld pvp wasn't any better than it is now. Removing BGs and saying "well if you want to BG you will have to do it from a blue server" would be a terrible move. There are many of us who play exclusively on Nagafen and have no interest in raiding, or any fulltime pve for that matter. If they remove BGs from Nagafen, I, and several of my friends, will simply un-sub, and move on. I hold out hope that I will be able to run through a contested zone hunting for pvp, but with so many people in pve instances, I'll just bide my time in pvp instances and await the future.

Just my two cents, even though I know I probably wasted my time writing this. Thanks for reading.

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Old 09-12-2012, 08:57 PM   #23
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razu wrote:

The problem is not BGs, WFs, or any other game mechanic. The problem is the player base. In SOEs defense they have tried to revive open world pvp with player token drops, pvp hot zones and the recent update which added 3 tiers of pvp gear for 92s. It seems to me that 85 to 90% of the server is not interested in open world pvp for reasons unknown to myself. Our group goes to Qeynos almost everyday and most times stand on the docks for a hour maybe getting one kill, waiting for the rare time that a group might actually come to fight us. 

The faction balance is a whole other story, the Qeynos side for the most part seems to only want to burn towers with massive numbers and then zone out fast as possible. You even have people attacking the tower/camping, attacking the tower/camping and hiding inside the tower to avoid pvp (pvp is scary I guess). Of course not all of the Qs are like that, some do stay after towers go down and fight, but they are a small percentage. 

Alt farmers. Why this has not been dealt with yet blows my mind. I guess since it is more easy and risk free to farm your alts, what is the need to look for pvp right? This is the biggest problem on Nagafen at the moment and is absolutely ruining the pvp server. Like I said, the problem is the player base, for people to choose alt farming over open world pvp for token generation answers many of the "what happened to EQ2 pvp" questions. 

The premise that the problem is the playerbase is ABSOLUTELY FLAWED.

People WILL DO what guarantees results the quickest.

Tokens from overland PvP are given in too minute amounts, & then they ARE ALSO DIVIDED relative to engagement size.

Again, having daily access to CONSTANT BATTLEGROUNDS QUEUES will absolutely jeopardize willingness to PvP in the open world.

From the beginning, as well, I've noted that warfields ARE TERRIBLY UNACCEPTABLE in their current form.

Winning warfields is disgustingly simplistic & promoting of freebie grabbing.

Rewards should be beneficial to players of all types, PvE, heroic, raiders, etc.

A constant flag during warfields should simply be double or triple tokens from PvP writs.

The overall warfields objective is shoddy & unacceptably crude & far from professional.

They need to be destroyed, or their reward system fundamentally altered (and they should always be up or queuing), if not destroyed).

A quality budget or time schedule just isn't/wasn't there/here for making solid public quests & warfields.

So what? Crappy product need not go forward. It's just unacceptable, & when it does, it obliterates organic PvP.

Returning overland PvP writ quest givers to OPEN WORLD ZONES ONLY is also part of the suggestions I've given which would remedy the problem.

And no, there should NOT be a return of writ posters.

The problem with farming alts for PvP tokens is also that TOKENS ARE HEIRLOOM.

BRB 20 LVL 10s GG not fighting back, dying without inflicting harm, GG SOE GMs, Lol.

Again, PvP tokens SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN MADE HEIRLOOM.

Caving into this naivety underscores a gross lack of understanding from the "visionaries/developers".

This REDUCES CONTENT LONGEVITY through offering one twinked character an easymode path to competency for all desires of option & configuration. BRB Wizard/Bruiser/Berserker GG FOTM pewpew.

Overland PvP takes dedication/persistence, coordination, reinforcement, group set-up, experience, & decent situational awareness.

Yes, sometimes the numbers just aren't in your favor in overland PvP -- that's when you would splinter off as a single group, away from the raided PvP, to find other groups or solos to pester until they'd call for reinforcements, themselves.

Yes, there would probably be group PvP if freebie warfields, battlegrounds, & alt farming weren't the fastest, guaranteed method for PvP equipping.

Having a suitable PvP rank system also prompted less willingness to indulge in "the zerg" (increased variables from raided PvP deters risk taking prominent in zerg warfare).

The problem is that these easymode routes of PvP advancement need to be removed, because overland PvP takes SUSTAINED DETERMINATION, as the reward IS NOT ALWAYS GUARANTEED, comparatively.

But idealizing the value of PvP gear as a form of progression is probably irrelevant because PvE/PvP gear was "integrated" poorly, & lethality & toughness are useless, leaving PvE as the fastest means to competency.

Again, I concede to the fact that the "visionaries/developers" at large are either just oblivious/incompetent, or squelched via low budget/resources/tight time schedules.

PrometheusAfire wrote:

First off, I have perused these forums for quite a while, and have held my tongue thus far... but today I shall break my silence, and state why I think removing BGs from Nagafen is a terrible idea:

 1.)- There are many of us on Nagafen who actually enjoy the competition and fast paced action of BGs. Heck I think it would be a great idea if SOE would add Tournament ladders and such, so that guilds can fight other guilds (reliably that is, the current queueing system does not guarantee that two premade groups will land in the same match to play against each other).

2.)- Warfields do not equal "open world" pvp in my opinion, though it does take place in the open, it is a structured event that happens reliably every two hours. Open world pvp to me is that heart pounding moment when you walk around a corner in a contested area to stumble across an enemy of your faction. Some of the greatest fun (win or lose) that I've ever experienced in this game came from these encounters, and sadly they grow farther and farther apart each day.

3.)- The current travel system is probably one of the top 3 reasons for the lack of honest to goodness open world pvp. Players can walk right up to the portals in their guild hall, and enter almost any zone from it, without having to travel across any overland zones. Big, big openworld pvp killer right there, and it is very unlikely that it will be changed.

4.)- Powerleveling allows people to effectively skip the dungeon crawl, and basically go straight to endgame, without actually casting a single spell with their character. The mentoring/chrono system needs a major overhaul (and I know it would make a lot of people mad, but this is responsible for a lot of zones being barren). The majority of game content at lower levels is contested, and therefore led to the best pvp experiences. Which leads me to my next point:

Seliri - Questing simply isn't robust enough to notion the abolishing of powerleveling.

5.)- For openworld pvp to make any sort of comeback, we need some meaningful contested content, not just a faction grinding timesink where we run around in circles killing the same mobs over and over and over. We need adornment quests, quests for items that are unique for our class (rather than the one-size-fits-all stuff that we get these days), and contested dungeons that give good loots. I know it's unlikely that anything I've said will happen, but here's hoping.

Seliri - Fully agree, would quote for emphasis.

6.)- Add addition pvp events to the gameworld. Maybe an event in which each faction must defend their city against the opposing faction, and gains rewards for doing so (perhaps some tokens, and an adornment, or some other items that are useful in pvp). Add more of these types of events to add to the world pvp events. Warfield just simply isn't enough (especially since its 50Q's vs 15 FP's vs 1000 Exiles).

7.)- The points I have made so far have a far greater impact on openworld pvp than BGs do. Before the recent updates to BGs, pvp gear, etc., BGs were dead, and openworld pvp wasn't any better than it is now. Removing BGs and saying "well if you want to BG you will have to do it from a blue server" would be a terrible move. There are many of us who play exclusively on Nagafen and have no interest in raiding, or any fulltime pve for that matter. If they remove BGs from Nagafen, I, and several of my friends, will simply un-sub, and move on. I hold out hope that I will be able to run through a contested zone hunting for pvp, but with so many people in pve instances, I'll just bide my time in pvp instances and await the future.

Seliri - Not true at all. Battlegrounds are absolutely, guaranteed, constant, easymode pathways to mindless PvPing that takes little intentional teamwork, communication, & situational awareness.

They are an utter bane to the ambiguity, unpredictability, & HUNT required for successful progress in overland PvP.

PvP THRIVED WILDLY without them, & if YOU THINK EQ2 PvP EQUATES TO BATTLEGROUNDS PvP, you're an ideologue & a heretic to sound game design theory.

YOU WILL NOT FIND PEOPLE MUSTER ENOUGH MOTIVATION TO HUNT when they can click a button to queue for a GUARANTEED DELIVERY of PvP tokens.

And also, nobody like being forced to enter the battlegrounds hub after partaking in a battleground.

And the objectives in them are also extremely poor/rehashed/recycled/cliche/stereotypical/crude/unprofessional.

Battlegrounds on ONLY TUESDAYS & WEDNESDAYS is perfectly fine for Nagafen.

Do you want battlegrounds every day for Nagafen? Then they can only reward ONE (1) token per win or per loss.

If you CANNOT "compromise" to understand the utter detriment they serve to overland PvP, then your voice is null & void in arbitrating how to promote healthy overland PvP.

They simply CAN NOT STAND as a viable route to PvP progression, or they will be utilized hands & feet above the meticulous hunt of overland PvP.

Maybe it's too late & all the old diehards have left to never return, but I can guarantee you people would hear SOE found a cure to their retardation if they abided by my 45 PoAfEP.

Just my two cents, even though I know I probably wasted my time writing this. Thanks for reading.

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Old 09-12-2012, 10:14 PM   #24
PrometheusAfire

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Seliri wrote:

Seliri - Not true at all. Battlegrounds are absolutely, guaranteed, constant, easymode pathways to mindless PvPing that takes little intentional teamwork, communication, & situational awareness.

They are an utter bane to the ambiguity, unpredictability, & HUNT required for successful progress in overland PvP.

PvP THRIVED WILDLY without them, & if YOU THINK EQ2 PvP EQUATES TO BATTLEGROUNDS PvP, you're an ideologue & a heretic to sound game design theory.

I have never played on a fulltime PvE server, and I will quit playing the game before I do. I started playing a couple of days after Vox went live, and pvp was wonderful. Some of the best times I've ever had playing a video game happened back then. No BG's, no AA, no PvP gear, 99% of the game was contested. Beautiful.

YOU WILL NOT FIND PEOPLE MUSTER ENOUGH MOTIVATION TO HUNT when they can click a button to queue for a GUARANTEED DELIVERY of PvP tokens

And also, nobody like being forced to enter the battlegrounds hub after partaking in a battleground.

I agree with you on this point. I would like to be put back into the world when a match is over.

And the objectives in them are also extremely poor/rehashed/recycled/cliche/stereotypical/crude/unprofessional.

I like the three current game modes, but we do need more.

Battlegrounds on ONLY TUESDAYS & WEDNESDAYS is perfectly fine for Nagafen.

I don't agree with this, and I, along with my friends, would stop playing the game altogether if this happened.

Do you want battlegrounds every day for Nagafen? Then they can only reward ONE (1) token per win or per loss.

With the current cost of pvp gear this would effectively kill BG's, but from the way you sound, that's probably what you want.

If you CANNOT "compromise" to understand the utter detriment they serve to overland PvP, then your voice is null & void in arbitrating how to promote healthy overland PvP.

They simply CAN NOT STAND as a viable route to PvP progression, or they will be utilized hands & feet above the meticulous hunt of overland PvP.

As Nagafen stands today, pvp comes in two forms: WF zerg/lag fest, which isn't very fun at all, or in the "lobby" of Skyshrine, which also isn't very fun at all. There is literally no reason for "the meticulous hunt of overland PvP" because in the current environment, everyone gets powerleveled to 92, then spends the rest of their days in the Skyshrine instances, in their guild hall, or raiding. You can go hunt for hours and hours and maybe find one player (and if you're lucky, they will be the enemy faction). We really need good contested heroic dungeons first and foremost, then you will see more people come out of BGs looking for a fight.

Just my two cents, even though I know I probably wasted my time writing this. Thanks for reading.

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Old 09-12-2012, 10:26 PM   #25
Seliri

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PrometheusAfire wrote:

Seliri wrote:

Seliri - Not true at all. Battlegrounds are absolutely, guaranteed, constant, easymode pathways to mindless PvPing that takes little intentional teamwork, communication, & situational awareness.

They are an utter bane to the ambiguity, unpredictability, & HUNT required for successful progress in overland PvP.

PvP THRIVED WILDLY without them, & if YOU THINK EQ2 PvP EQUATES TO BATTLEGROUNDS PvP, you're an ideologue & a heretic to sound game design theory.

I have never played on a fulltime PvE server, and I will quit playing the game before I do. I started playing a couple of days after Vox went live, and pvp was wonderful. Some of the best times I've ever had playing a video game happened back then. No BG's, no AA, no PvP gear, 99% of the game was contested. Beautiful.

YOU WILL NOT FIND PEOPLE MUSTER ENOUGH MOTIVATION TO HUNT when they can click a button to queue for a GUARANTEED DELIVERY of PvP tokens

And also, nobody like being forced to enter the battlegrounds hub after partaking in a battleground.

I agree with you on this point. I would like to be put back into the world when a match is over.

And the objectives in them are also extremely poor/rehashed/recycled/cliche/stereotypical/crude/unprofessional.

I like the three current game modes, but we do need more.

Battlegrounds on ONLY TUESDAYS & WEDNESDAYS is perfectly fine for Nagafen.

I don't agree with this, and I, along with my friends, would stop playing the game altogether if this happened.

Do you want battlegrounds every day for Nagafen? Then they can only reward ONE (1) token per win or per loss.

With the current cost of pvp gear this would effectively kill BG's, but from the way you sound, that's probably what you want.

If you CANNOT "compromise" to understand the utter detriment they serve to overland PvP, then your voice is null & void in arbitrating how to promote healthy overland PvP.

They simply CAN NOT STAND as a viable route to PvP progression, or they will be utilized hands & feet above the meticulous hunt of overland PvP.

As Nagafen stands today, pvp comes in two forms: WF zerg/lag fest, which isn't very fun at all, or in the "lobby" of Skyshrine, which also isn't very fun at all. There is literally no reason for "the meticulous hunt of overland PvP" because in the current environment, everyone gets powerleveled to 92, then spends the rest of their days in the Skyshrine instances, in their guild hall, or raiding. You can go hunt for hours and hours and maybe find one player (and if you're lucky, they will be the enemy faction). We really need good contested heroic dungeons first and foremost, then you will see more people come out of BGs looking for a fight.

Just my two cents, even though I know I probably wasted my time writing this. Thanks for reading.

While I also have consistently pushed for a revitalization of contested dungeons, I believe that the track record seen during the days of TSO proves PvP will happen in overland zones if there's itemization progression to be had.

You nostalgically hearken to the days of enjoying overland PvP yourself, but if battlegrounds were neutered on Nagafen, you would quit? Ok...

You confess the calamity of instances, yet you've now underpinned your stay upon perpetuating the wasteland PvP plague of 2012. son_i_am_disappoint.xml...

Were you a lowbie level locker during your prior PvPing days?

I can relate though, if losing the dungeons of those tiers is to be lamented, for I too have referenced their glory, & the joy that came whence.

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Old 09-12-2012, 10:40 PM   #26
PrometheusAfire

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Seliri wrote:

PrometheusAfire wrote:

Seliri wrote:

Seliri - Not true at all. Battlegrounds are absolutely, guaranteed, constant, easymode pathways to mindless PvPing that takes little intentional teamwork, communication, & situational awareness.

They are an utter bane to the ambiguity, unpredictability, & HUNT required for successful progress in overland PvP.

PvP THRIVED WILDLY without them, & if YOU THINK EQ2 PvP EQUATES TO BATTLEGROUNDS PvP, you're an ideologue & a heretic to sound game design theory.

I have never played on a fulltime PvE server, and I will quit playing the game before I do. I started playing a couple of days after Vox went live, and pvp was wonderful. Some of the best times I've ever had playing a video game happened back then. No BG's, no AA, no PvP gear, 99% of the game was contested. Beautiful.

YOU WILL NOT FIND PEOPLE MUSTER ENOUGH MOTIVATION TO HUNT when they can click a button to queue for a GUARANTEED DELIVERY of PvP tokens

And also, nobody like being forced to enter the battlegrounds hub after partaking in a battleground.

I agree with you on this point. I would like to be put back into the world when a match is over.

And the objectives in them are also extremely poor/rehashed/recycled/cliche/stereotypical/crude/unprofessional.

I like the three current game modes, but we do need more.

Battlegrounds on ONLY TUESDAYS & WEDNESDAYS is perfectly fine for Nagafen.

I don't agree with this, and I, along with my friends, would stop playing the game altogether if this happened.

Do you want battlegrounds every day for Nagafen? Then they can only reward ONE (1) token per win or per loss.

With the current cost of pvp gear this would effectively kill BG's, but from the way you sound, that's probably what you want.

If you CANNOT "compromise" to understand the utter detriment they serve to overland PvP, then your voice is null & void in arbitrating how to promote healthy overland PvP.

They simply CAN NOT STAND as a viable route to PvP progression, or they will be utilized hands & feet above the meticulous hunt of overland PvP.

As Nagafen stands today, pvp comes in two forms: WF zerg/lag fest, which isn't very fun at all, or in the "lobby" of Skyshrine, which also isn't very fun at all. There is literally no reason for "the meticulous hunt of overland PvP" because in the current environment, everyone gets powerleveled to 92, then spends the rest of their days in the Skyshrine instances, in their guild hall, or raiding. You can go hunt for hours and hours and maybe find one player (and if you're lucky, they will be the enemy faction). We really need good contested heroic dungeons first and foremost, then you will see more people come out of BGs looking for a fight.

Just my two cents, even though I know I probably wasted my time writing this. Thanks for reading.

While I also have consistently pushed for a revitalization of contested dungeons, I believe that the track record seen during the days of TSO proves PvP will happen in overland zones if there's itemization progression to be had.

You nostalgically hearken to the days of enjoying overland PvP yourself, but if battlegrounds were neutered on Nagafen, you would quit? Ok...

The other criteria I mentioned would have to be met before they abolished BG's from Nagafen. I will quote myself here again for clarity, "As Nagafen stands today, pvp comes in two forms: WF zerg/lag fest, which isn't very fun at all, or in the "lobby" of Skyshrine, which also isn't very fun at all. There is literally no reason for "the meticulous hunt of overland PvP" because in the current environment, everyone gets powerleveled to 92, then spends the rest of their days in the Skyshrine instances, in their guild hall, or raiding. You can go hunt for hours and hours and maybe find one player (and if you're lucky, they will be the enemy faction). We really need good contested heroic dungeons first and foremost, then you will see more people come out of BGs looking for a fight."

If they satisfied people with content that is augmented specifically to promote healthy PvP on Nagafen, then you bet I would absolutely 100% be out hunting every minute of my time in-game. But who are we kidding, Nagafen is probably the server with the lowest population right now, and the devs would not devote that kind of time to a couple hundred people, when they have more subscriptions paying for internet-dragon-killing.

All in all, I'm not in total disagreement with you. Killing BG's on Nagafen before some other fundamental changes are made would only drive more people off the server, or out of the game entirely.

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Old 09-12-2012, 11:06 PM   #27
Seliri

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Seliri wrote:

While I also have consistently pushed for a revitalization of contested dungeons, I believe that the track record seen during the days of TSO proves PvP will happen in overland zones if there's itemization progression to be had.

Even after mastercrafted nullified farming T3 dungeons for gear, contested PvP still thrived.

No battlegrounds, no easymode warfields, a solid PvP rank system, decent crowd control/curing abilities, no global travel, no leapers/fliers, no mercenaries, no toughness on lowbie PvP gear, & (not too many) immunity troubles.

Again, even with TSO, PvP was active in KP, Sebilis, JW, etc.

Even up until the release of the Withered Lands (dat Skyshrine overland zone for random unawares), PvP could still be found in The Hole, Sebilis, The Sundered Frontier, & Stonebrunt Highlands.

IMO, contested dungeons geared specifically to PvP are, for reasons you stated, & which we were both already aware of (cost/benefit), unlikely (still don't know how long it'd take to make Sentinel's Fate dungeons contestable with farmable trinkets [rare drop, vast volumes required] for drastically upgraded PvP gear).

If you simply want to engage mindlessly, then 1 token per win/loss of daily Nagafen battlegrounds would suffice (still not an option I'd approve, considering I feel that people are so cowardly simplistic that they'd queue battlegrounds rather than support overland PvP -- I am for battlegrounds on Tuesdays/Wednesdays ONLY).

But, overland PvP is what instills the BEING of a PVP SERVER.

I fully believe it's overly pessimistic to notion that castrating battlegrounds would spell the doom of Nagafen.

Players consistently working for itemization progress in the open world can return, & I think there are many simple ruleset mods that can return substantial dividends.

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Old 09-12-2012, 11:11 PM   #28
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Seliri wrote:

But, overland PvP is what instills the BEING of a PVP SERVER

Quoted to enhance truthiness.

Simply put, if all you do is Battlegrounds, then you might as well play on a Blue server.

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Old 09-13-2012, 11:03 AM   #29
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Im not entirely sure that at this point, even if soe GAVE everyone the best pvp gear and max lvl/aas, that people would leave the bgs and go out and fight each other.

The biggest problem I see is the massive amounts of rediculous skill/stat/proc bloating that the game has now.  Fights really aren't that fun anymore, nor are they really strategic.  This problem can only get worse though as the game progresses, unless they come out with an expansion that puts people in an alternate reality naked and the cycle begins anew.

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:33 PM   #30
Seliri

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crazyeyes321 wrote:

Im not entirely sure that at this point, even if soe GAVE everyone the best pvp gear and max lvl/aas, that people would leave the bgs and go out and fight each other.

The biggest problem I see is the massive amounts of rediculous skill/stat/proc bloating that the game has now.  Fights really aren't that fun anymore, nor are they really strategic.  This problem can only get worse though as the game progresses, unless they come out with an expansion that puts people in an alternate reality naked and the cycle begins anew.

...? there should never be a premise of just giving everyone gear & i dunno why you felt that was a relevant comment

...gear is usually the prime incentive for engagement, especially with the pvp rank system again being a failure, on top of no seasonal pvp rank leaderboards/rewards & the like.

there isn't much stat bloating with the caps as they are aside from STA/HP

& i agree fights take less skill & are less fun with more run & gun brought about by continued, unwarranted nerfs to crowd control/utility.

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