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Old 05-11-2012, 04:09 PM   #31
Boethius_Permafrost

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Might be time to move them all to the research tab of the spellbook.

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Old 05-11-2012, 06:24 PM   #32
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Meirril wrote:

Giallolas wrote:

Once more we have the doom and gloom crew going on here.  Why is it that anytime someone posts a complaint, so many of the same posters jump on board to complain as well?  Some of you guys are educated and experience players that almost always have a hard word to share or a complaint regarding this game.  Makes me wonder why many of you play at all?

Yeah, I think the cream of the crop was taken from EQ2 to work on EQNext.  Yeah there's still bugs in this game.  Certainly some things bug me.  However, myself and my small guild are having more fun now than we've ever had in 7 or 8 years in this game.  We've taken lots of breaks, but right now we have more to do and see with all of our toons than we've ever enjoyed in this game before.  Apprentices are kind of cool.  I do wish they'd improve upon the current ones instead of just dropping in some new ones, but hey, it's not that much skin off my nose.  Truth is some of the prestige houses are GIGANTIC and so putting in some colossal dudes really doesn't mess with it too bad.  I suppose I could dwell on all the negative going on, but I guess I've got you guys to do that for me.  We're enjoying most of this immensely.

But your agreeing with the OP as well. This isn't doom and gloom so much as "we've experienced apprentices and we want to let you know, this isn't fun for anybody."

Sorry took so long to reply.  I would agree with that portion of the OP in that just adding more and more research assistants isn't the answer.  I like the one I had and wished that they would just improve upon it.  I do not agree that we should scrap them completely.  Because I do not like to just complain without offering tangible solutions, some of the things I'd like to see them improve uponw would be:

1.  Give us different races to choose from.  Perhaps similar to the guild hall ammenities in that you could choose the sex or the race.

2.  Roll ALL of the apprentice researcher recipes into one.  I never imagined that I would one day end up with 2-4 researchers per toon.  One is good enough for me.  The new recipes for each expansion would become available after I do some kind of unlocking quest equivalent to doing the quest/raid to get the new researcher now.

3.  Please decide if my apprentice is a true crafting apprentice or if it's just a researcher.  I always wanted an apprentice that would help me in my crafting career.  That is, perhaps I could ask my apprentice to make my provisioner a stack of drinks that I already know.  Make it take him/her 5 days (or whatever they deem) to make this stack and I would then help him, just like we do now, to quicken that pace.  Maybe my apprentice would just give me certain buffs while I'm crafting to help my progress or durability.  Maybe the apprentice would do my running around, meaning he/she would also be a merchant for my crafting class's merchant bought goods (water, kindling, sugar, etc for provie).  Maybe this apprentice would help me conserve my raws while I'm crafting.  To explain, perhaps while they're assisting I would use one less fuel, one less of each of the common ingredients, or something like that.  Something that made me feel like they were actually helping out.

4.  I like the fact that they're researchers.  I like the cool gear they can research for me.  I wish that we'd just call them researchers and then look to give us real apprentices.  I do not need 2-4 researchers and still not have any real apprentices though.

I'm not advocating that we dump the researchers completely.  I wish they did more and had more thought put into them.  I think a more dynamic relationship with our apprentices would be really fun and help a crafter feel like they make a difference.  I wish there was only one of them and not so many.  So yes, I agree with the OP that I do not want anymore researchers.  But no, I don't think we should just make the whole apprentice/researcher idea go away.

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Old 05-12-2012, 03:28 AM   #33
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[email protected] wrote:

I think the topic got a little side tracked for a bit but, its not back on track.

I agree with the original poster, lets look at the raid research assistant. 1 Raid member can get it per zone, each guild can complete the zone 2 times a week, there are 24 members in the raid. 12 weeks/3 months of raiding and everyone will finally have their first researcher. Not to mention it takes 18 days per recipe, IF you do add more please allow each member of the raid force to obtain the researcher all at once.

Just my 2cents.

There's a thread on that already. And I disagree. My reasons are on that thread.

P.S. Not all 24 players in a raid are crafters. In fact, my guild is already close to allowing people's alts to get their apprentices.

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Old 05-12-2012, 08:36 AM   #34
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Here's the thing.   If you have more than 9 of the first set of apprentices researching spells, why?     It isn't a race you were forced to enter.   You don't have to have all the recipes right away.   You aren't going to have the rares to use the recipes on everything any way.

I have 9 tradeskillers, I don't visit the apprentices every day.   I think they look pretty cool standing next to the crafting stations I set up for them.  I set up a special crafting area and it looks populated because they are there.

If it is the fact that you are visiting a ton of apprentices each day, you are doing this to yourself. 

I like having them available as something different.

I would like to have their role expanded though.   I'd like them making some things for us too.  I agree that they are really recipe researchers at this point and not true apprentices.

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Old 05-12-2012, 10:30 AM   #35
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Giallolas wrote:

Sorry took so long to reply.  I would agree with that portion of the OP in that just adding more and more research assistants isn't the answer.  I like the one I had and wished that they would just improve upon it.  I do not agree that we should scrap them completely.  Because I do not like to just complain without offering tangible solutions, some of the things I'd like to see them improve uponw would be:

1.  Give us different races to choose from.  Perhaps similar to the guild hall ammenities in that you could choose the sex or the race.

2.  Roll ALL of the apprentice researcher recipes into one.  I never imagined that I would one day end up with 2-4 researchers per toon.  One is good enough for me.  The new recipes for each expansion would become available after I do some kind of unlocking quest equivalent to doing the quest/raid to get the new researcher now.

3.  Please decide if my apprentice is a true crafting apprentice or if it's just a researcher.  I always wanted an apprentice that would help me in my crafting career.  That is, perhaps I could ask my apprentice to make my provisioner a stack of drinks that I already know.  Make it take him/her 5 days (or whatever they deem) to make this stack and I would then help him, just like we do now, to quicken that pace.  Maybe my apprentice would just give me certain buffs while I'm crafting to help my progress or durability.  Maybe the apprentice would do my running around, meaning he/she would also be a merchant for my crafting class's merchant bought goods (water, kindling, sugar, etc for provie).  Maybe this apprentice would help me conserve my raws while I'm crafting.  To explain, perhaps while they're assisting I would use one less fuel, one less of each of the common ingredients, or something like that.  Something that made me feel like they were actually helping out.

4.  I like the fact that they're researchers.  I like the cool gear they can research for me.  I wish that we'd just call them researchers and then look to give us real apprentices.  I do not need 2-4 researchers and still not have any real apprentices though.

I'm not advocating that we dump the researchers completely.  I wish they did more and had more thought put into them.  I think a more dynamic relationship with our apprentices would be really fun and help a crafter feel like they make a difference.  I wish there was only one of them and not so many.  So yes, I agree with the OP that I do not want anymore researchers.  But no, I don't think we should just make the whole apprentice/researcher idea go away.

I agree 100% and I like your ideas.  I really wish there was more we could do with the apprentices / researchers.  It's a part of the game that could have been expanded on so much but at this time it feels very "unfinished".

And please, no more new researchers!

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Old 05-13-2012, 02:36 AM   #36
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Giallolas wrote:

((snipped))

2.  Roll ALL of the apprentice researcher recipes into one.  I never imagined that I would one day end up with 2-4 researchers per toon.  One is good enough for me.  The new recipes for each expansion would become available after I do some kind of unlocking quest equivalent to doing the quest/raid to get the new researcher now.

3.  Please decide if my apprentice is a true crafting apprentice or if it's just a researcher.  I always wanted an apprentice that would help me in my crafting career.  That is, perhaps I could ask my apprentice to make my provisioner a stack of drinks that I already know.  Make it take him/her 5 days (or whatever they deem) to make this stack and I would then help him, just like we do now, to quicken that pace.  Maybe my apprentice would just give me certain buffs while I'm crafting to help my progress or durability.  Maybe the apprentice would do my running around, meaning he/she would also be a merchant for my crafting class's merchant bought goods (water, kindling, sugar, etc for provie).  Maybe this apprentice would help me conserve my raws while I'm crafting.  To explain, perhaps while they're assisting I would use one less fuel, one less of each of the common ingredients, or something like that.  Something that made me feel like they were actually helping out.

((snipped))

your description of an apprentice would have been nice and is an apprentice.  it is similar to what i expected after hearing the fanfaire news.  when they were released, i was (and still am) underwhelmed and do not find them to be fun, engaging or an exciting part of tradeskilling.  instead, they are a chore.  i no longer call them apprentice.  they do not deserve that title.  they are researchers.  period.  they are the same as the former adventurer researchers.  they dont do anything for you.  they make you wait days, weeks and (in some cases) a month to get a recipe.  they should not be called apprentices.  they should be called researchers.  if not that, then masters bc they possess all the knowledge and we "learn" from them!

someone mentioned the idea of a tab, similar to the adventurer research tab.  oh that would be sweet!  or at the least, a letter saying "hey your recipe is ready", just like the adventurer researchers used to do.  since i have to go to the house to check on the progress, they can go a really long time before i discover that the recipe is finally ready.  all of them are kept in one central location (my fury's skyblade skiff) bc that's the house that i might actually visit more than a few times a year.  if they were spread out, then i'd have to remember whose researcher was in what house.  plus, i have a harvest depot there with the 80-99 supplies.  if i am feeling really ambitious, i could make an item for the researcher (rarely happens).  i'm not willing to keep a spreadsheet.  that's too much work and just isn't fun.  if i wanted work, i'd go to...  wait for it....  my job!! 

i wish the researchers could go in the guild hall.  it would make it a lot easier to check their progress and/or update them.  i know that wont happen bc big guilds would be littered with hundreds (or thousands) of them.  maybe an interactive thing like the mail where we can check on the status and/or "coach" would be nice. 

i dont care for the researchers, i just don't.  i don't expect them to go away as i'm pretty sure that they are here to stay.  that is not why i started the thread.  i very strongly do *NOT* want any NEW ones.  two per crafter is too many.  one was acceptable, now it is overboard.  (not including the raid one bc most of my crafters cannot go in and get a raid one; perhaps others would be able to do that and they have 3 per crafter -- eeek--.)  yes, i feel that two is overboard.  it's absurd.  i have nothing nice to say about it.

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Old 05-13-2012, 02:46 AM   #37
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Katz wrote:

Here's the thing.   If you have more than 9 of the first set of apprentices researching spells, why?     It isn't a race you were forced to enter.   You don't have to have all the recipes right away.   You aren't going to have the rares to use the recipes on everything any way.

I have 9 tradeskillers, I don't visit the apprentices every day.   I think they look pretty cool standing next to the crafting stations I set up for them.  I set up a special crafting area and it looks populated because they are there.

If it is the fact that you are visiting a ton of apprentices each day, you are doing this to yourself. 

I like having them available as something different.

I would like to have their role expanded though.   I'd like them making some things for us too.  I agree that they are really recipe researchers at this point and not true apprentices.

you made quite a few assumptions there.......

while i cannot speak for others, i certainly can speak for myself.  i do not visit them daily.  i don't want to.  i've got plenty of chores at the house and i refuse to get chores in my fun time.  i visit them when i happen to think about it & ONLY IF i have logged that particular character in & ONLY IF i'm not planning on going off to do something fun immediately.  THEREFORE, your assumption that ppl are doing it to themself is WAY OFF BASE.  i'm not doing anything with them on a daily or even weekly basis.  it's just when i happen to go there.  i despise the clutter in my house.  i despise that there's so many of them, all researching a bunch of different things that if someone types in channel, "LF crafter to make X", i have no clue if any of my guys can make it.  i never respond to those & i used to, before DOV.  i stopped bc of the headache of having to check/keep track, etc.  (splitting up the recipes and not keeping them with the archtypes made it so i didn't even bother with the reactants.)  DOV is when i stopped helping others who would cry out for help & it was bc of the "new" mechanics put into place.  AOD hindered helping others further.  the more that i think about those researchers, the more that i abhor them.  they are nothing more than a time sink and a gate that prevents other players from getting help that they need.

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Old 05-15-2012, 12:57 PM   #38
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[email protected] wrote:

Tigress wrote:

Please, no more tradeskill research/apprentice assistants!  One was enough & now each crafter needs two.  Please, don't do it for the next expansion.  If you are married to the whole "wait 18-30 days for a recipe" thing, then require our tradeskillers to wait that long to research the new recipes.  --OR-- Expand upon the current researchers so we don't have to get more of them.   I really do not want a house crowded with a bunch of researchers.  It's truly unneccessary as one would have been more than sufficient for each crafter.   I'm having a hard time keeping track of whose researching what and my house is now littered with 25 researchers.I'm sure there will be those non-crafters (or maybe even some crafters) who will say, "then don't get them for all of your crafters".  Please don't listen to them.  For most crafters, if they get their character up to max level, they are not going to want to miss out.

Thank you for your consideration.

+1000

I was going to make a thread on this today as well...

I HATE the apprentice system, it blows, it sucks, its silly, it doesn't provide me content, its the most aweful gating mechanic I can possibly think of for a game.

Let me explain why.  I tradeskill to occupy the gaps of time between the other things I do in game.  I log in and have 40 mins till raid, not really enough time to do a group, so I look to do some tradeskilling.

Here's the fracking problem, there is NOTHING TO DO for tradeskilling, cause everything there is to earn is just hail some dude and wait.

The game would be infinitely better if by spending some time, I dunno doing tradeskilly stuff, I could get better at tradeskilling.  I could go earn som fracking recipes by doing missions or other things.  I could buy them with these silly city tokens I accumulate by tradeskilling and have no use for.

The apprentice system is aweful, it needs to go away, to die a lonely death and to never be heard from again.  

There is nothing worse than deciding to do some tradeskilling and having jack-all to actually do.

I agree with the system being awful. Got a couple when they first came out, used them once and not since. I found no real use for them, especially for my carpenter.

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Old 05-16-2012, 08:09 PM   #39
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d1anaw wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Tigress wrote:

Please, no more tradeskill research/apprentice assistants!  One was enough & now each crafter needs two.  Please, don't do it for the next expansion.  If you are married to the whole "wait 18-30 days for a recipe" thing, then require our tradeskillers to wait that long to research the new recipes.  --OR-- Expand upon the current researchers so we don't have to get more of them.   I really do not want a house crowded with a bunch of researchers.  It's truly unneccessary as one would have been more than sufficient for each crafter.   I'm having a hard time keeping track of whose researching what and my house is now littered with 25 researchers.I'm sure there will be those non-crafters (or maybe even some crafters) who will say, "then don't get them for all of your crafters".  Please don't listen to them.  For most crafters, if they get their character up to max level, they are not going to want to miss out.

Thank you for your consideration.

+1000

I was going to make a thread on this today as well...

I HATE the apprentice system, it blows, it sucks, its silly, it doesn't provide me content, its the most aweful gating mechanic I can possibly think of for a game.

Let me explain why.  I tradeskill to occupy the gaps of time between the other things I do in game.  I log in and have 40 mins till raid, not really enough time to do a group, so I look to do some tradeskilling.

Here's the fracking problem, there is NOTHING TO DO for tradeskilling, cause everything there is to earn is just hail some dude and wait.

The game would be infinitely better if by spending some time, I dunno doing tradeskilly stuff, I could get better at tradeskilling.  I could go earn som fracking recipes by doing missions or other things.  I could buy them with these silly city tokens I accumulate by tradeskilling and have no use for.

The apprentice system is aweful, it needs to go away, to die a lonely death and to never be heard from again.  

There is nothing worse than deciding to do some tradeskilling and having jack-all to actually do.

I agree with the system being awful. Got a couple when they first came out, used them once and not since. I found no real use for them, especially for my carpenter.

That sounds like a complaint about the recipes, not the apprentice itself.

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Old 05-17-2012, 06:40 AM   #40
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The Droags are a bit too tall and, last time I looked, you couldn't resize 'em. My tiny Fae is looking up at views he don't wanna be seeing.

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Old 05-17-2012, 07:21 PM   #41
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[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

I think the topic got a little side tracked for a bit but, its not back on track.

I agree with the original poster, lets look at the raid research assistant. 1 Raid member can get it per zone, each guild can complete the zone 2 times a week, there are 24 members in the raid. 12 weeks/3 months of raiding and everyone will finally have their first researcher. Not to mention it takes 18 days per recipe, IF you do add more please allow each member of the raid force to obtain the researcher all at once.

Just my 2cents.

There's a thread on that already. And I disagree. My reasons are on that thread.

P.S. Not all 24 players in a raid are crafters. In fact, my guild is already close to allowing people's alts to get their apprentices.

your post was 25 days after gu63 went live. assuming your guild was instantly 92 and able to zone into UDx4, and immediately able to clear the entire zone in pregu63 gear...at 2 zone clears per week that is 7 clears, and 7 apprentices.

although 'close' is a relative term, i find it hard to believe you made an attempt to be honest (close to allowing ppls alts to get their apprentices).

the kinds of guilds who were instantly clearing this dont have less than 10 92 crafter raid mains, and those who are a step behind them rarely have as few as 7.

so in the off chance that you were being factual, your user experience is the exception that proves the rule: too rare and not for alts. those recipes produce gear that is par for the zone, but you have to clear the whole zone anyway and use 20 rares just to start your 18 days for 1 single recipe. its nonsense.

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Old 05-18-2012, 01:24 PM   #42
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The research panel of the spellbook should have a dropdown at the top

"spell research", "tradeskill apprentice", "dreshnak", "yelnar"

You probably default to spell research, and the window otherwise is unchanged.  You select another researcher, and you get that researcher's current status window, and select the recipe to research.  ALL of the researchers should send notification when a recipe or spell is ready to pick up.

The tradeskill apprentice in your house is still useful, because he/she offers a daily quest if you want to do it.  The droags would no longer be needed, but they probably should offer some sort of interaction, like a daily quest for the same reward as the adventure solo daily in skyshrine, or a chance for a t10 rare.

Dozekar should drop two or three research stones.  The raid dropped components are pretty rare, so there's not much point to having everyone researching recipes, but they would enjoy the game a lot more if they could get the researcher.  The current drop rate is just too constrictive.  Having everyone in the raid get one seems like overkill, but it would be fine, as the real roadblock is the components.  Nevertheless, I'd personally think 3 per kill.

ps: Add a checkbox for "show max level spells only" to the research tab.

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Old 05-18-2012, 03:04 PM   #43
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From the posts I have read I came up with an idea that may make the apprentice or future ones a bit more fun, probably will never happen though: 

As normal, you go to the tradeskill area to hire your apprentice and place him/her in your home or wherever and go on choosing a recipe for them to research and do the daily quests and all to reduce the time. Now it comes time to claim your recipe and here is where it gets fun;

 

Once you hit the claim button one of two things may happen, 1) you receive the recipe that was being researched, or 2) the apprentice that you hired is actually a spy for the opposing faction, in which case, the spy will become agro to you (scales to the artisans adventure level) and you must fight to the death. Would be fun to see the apprentice throw a tantrum or something before revealing themselves.

 

If you die then you are teleported to a room where the spy that killed you is offering you a cup of tea or something and details everything and states that he did not want to become a spy for but was compelled to do so and that he had to fight you in such a way to make it look real, as if you really died.

 

In the end you are ported back to your original location given your original reward and a new apprentice, almost like as if nothing happened at all.

 

Or,

 

You defeated and killed the spy, when you inspect the dead spy you find that he/she has an extremely rare item and once you claim it (if you don't claim it see Paragraph above)  you will be immediately transported to a room in the city of your opposite faction (ex. Qeynos -> Freeport, Freeport -> Qeynos, etc.) and you speak to an NPC about the object you just removed from the spy and you will be offered a quest to find out more about the object.

 

If you decline the quest you get transported to your original location and rewarded as usual.

 

If the quest is accepted, the NPC sends you to a class trainer of your opposing city, the class trainer is the opposite of the class trainer you would see in your home city. Once you find the trainer, the trainer will then give you the location of the black market trader in your city where you can turn in the object you got from the spy to upgrade any item (i.e. Legendary > Master crafted fabled item) you are wearing or a spell upgrade. The quest ends once you have chosen the item or spell to upgrade.

 

Something like that and this obviously would be a very rare event/occurrence but IMO a fun alternative to what is now in place.

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