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Old 05-08-2005, 10:13 AM   #1
betterji

 
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I have a sorcere and cant decide which to branch to and would like some input on what you guys think.  Damge wise solo group all that stuff is helpful.
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Old 05-08-2005, 02:59 PM   #2
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There's been many discussions on this before but here is a post on it:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=24&message.id=6378&query.id=55542#M6378

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Old 05-08-2005, 11:43 PM   #3
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There are many, many post on this... but one thing I would say, is to look over both jobs and pick one based on what you like, not on total dps or one particular spell.  As updates are put in effect, wizard may pull ahead for awhile then warlock will be ahead... one will never always be a higher dps than the other as balancing continues.  So it comes down to, do you like more elemental animations and spells(fire and ice)?  Or do you prefer green and black gas clouds of posion and disease.  Both have comparable spells, wizzard do have slightly better animation in my opinion, but I like the idea of the warlock being a controller of death and decay, so picked warlock.  Other difference, wizzards get spell armor(red flames, etc) warlocks get polymorph(frog,bat,raven).  Pick what makes you happy, its a long road to 50.
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Old 05-10-2005, 09:06 AM   #4
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Warlock, Warlock, Warlock. DPS, Decent high end nuking, DoTs, roots, buffs, regen, illusions, good or evil choices..... Need I say more? I can... Go Warlock. Much more useful in raids too, I hear Wizzies are only invited for mana transfers.....
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Old 05-10-2005, 04:44 PM   #5
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The funny thing is that almost everything you said that a warlock can do, a wizard can do.  Just replace "illusion" with "familiar". SMILEY
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Old 05-11-2005, 11:21 PM   #6
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I play with a group of RL friends, pretty exclusively.
One is an Inquisitor, one is a Berserker (I think)
One is a Wizard
I am a Warlock.
 
Last night I dinged 23 the Wizard dinged 24 (im a little behind for some reason)
I REALLY REALLY Have to lay off.
I died 5 times because I did not manage the agro well.
 
Before I dinged 23 we never died.  The wiz and I nuked nuked nuked.
Oh.  I also Crafted App IV's for all his spells up to 25 and all my spells up to 25 (my scribe is 25)
 
I am outdamaging him and pulling agro so easily that I have to lay off a bit.  Plus I am buffing the tank with the poison and fire and mana buffs.
 
I can only say at 24/24 it is no contest.  Warlock outdamages Wizard.  and both of us have App IV's for all spells.
 
 
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Old 05-12-2005, 12:13 AM   #7
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Just keep in mind that play is not always justified only by damage.  There are other factors that play in a decision such as Roleplay styles, and then there are issues when you overlap multiple Warlocks in one group what with overlap of DOT attacks not stacking.  Limits the number of nukes a Warlock can throw in some instances.

You also may enjoy saving your raid group's collective butts by being able to transfer about 400-450 power at a time with power transfers.
 
Its all in what you enjoy doing, but believe me when I say this... both Warlocks and Wizards are outstanding classes.
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Old 05-12-2005, 12:42 AM   #8
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Oh... I just wanted to take this snippet from another post that I responded to in the Wizarding forums.  It's a might long, but I think you all can appreciate what I have to say.
 
"And you know Sac... that's exactly the way i've felt ever since the damage increases went in for Wizards and Warlocks.  I just dont see the point in comparing two different classes.
 
Yes were are essentially built off of the same base class, Sorceror, but No, we are not the same class to be compared after lvl 20.  At lvl 20, our split in the ranks occurs and we opt to ascend to one or the other side of the two heaviest hitters in the game.
 
I know it was stated by Moorgard on a couple of occasions that Wizards and Warlocks are supposed to have the highest DPS in the game compared to all other classes.  I wish I had time to look for this quote, because I'm sure i'm not right on in my wording.  The fact remains though that this one thing is what I view as the root of our comparison issues.  Because of this, that quote has been misconstrued to mean that Wizards and Warlocks would be on equal footing.  That right there is the big misconception that is surrounding alot, if not all of these "Wizards are not as strong as Warlocks" threads.
 
I'm not going to tell you though that we have as high or higher DPS than Warlocks because we dont.  We've seen this.  Does this mean we are not powerful?  Not at all.  We have the highest burst DPS in the game, and as everything stands now, we are ranked #2 behind Warlocks as being the heaviest hitters.  Are we still holding true to Moorgard's statement about Wizards and Warlocks having the highest DPS?  Absolutely. 
 
I have to draw notice at this point that I have specifically NOT said anything about raiding for a reason.  This is where our role changes up as Wizards.  Some may not understand why our role as heavy nuker turns into that of Utilitarian Group Backup, but I want you to step back from this and think about what you are doing for your guild.  What type of service are you specifically giving freely to your comrades to get them through the fight?  Take a look at the survivability of your tanks because you've been there supplementing power to the healers who are mowing through power like nobody's business trying to keep that tank alive. 
 
At the end of the fight, who played a humongous role in keeping the raid going?  Wizards.  Everyone plays a role in these raids, and Wizards are filling a very specific role in power supplementation.  Aside from Clarity/Breeze from Enchanters, Wizards are top of the food chain when it comes to single target power supplementation.  This is one thing that in raids is not easy to leave.  I specifically upgraded my power spells to Adept III JUST to help the people in the raids I join.  And you know what?  People appreciate me for this role.  They thank me for saving their collective butts with my power heals.
 
What would I improve about us?  One thing.  One single thing, and then i'd say we were complete.  That one thing is a fix to Protoflame.  That's it.  That is the only flaw I see with Wizards right now, and everything else is just fine.  We dont need our power increased.  Our powers are fine as they are.  The only other fix I can think of, isnt even a Wizard fix, but a world change.  That would be a change to the EPIC raid mobs to be more affected by Cold.  If even 50% of the raid mobs were Cold vulnerable it would end all of this "Warlocks rule in Raids" baloney.  All that needs to happen is to ease up on the Cold resists a bit.
 
I'm probably going to be labelled as a black sheep or traitor to my fellow Wizards, but I have to tell some of you to get realistic with what you think we should be doing.  We're not going to be the god of damage in this game.  Truthfully, I hope it stays that way.  This pushes us to excell in our class beyond the boundaries of what we think is our limits.  We do very well right now.  Very well indeed, and to keep asking for changes to our class which is fundamentally working as intended is asking for disaster.  We only need fixes to what is broken.  Beyond that is overkill.
 
/shrug.
 
This may all sound so mean to some of you guys... but it has to be said by someone.  I know how to play my Wizard, and at lvl 50 I've seen a ton of content in the game.  I know what we're capable of.  I know what needs to be fixed because I've done extensive testing to everything.  We're fine guys.  I think that attentions should be placed in other areas of the game."
 
I hope you all dont mind that I've posted this here.  Some of it just seemed so pertinant to what was being discussed in terms of Warlock and Wizard choices.  I hear alot of flames both ways between both classes and it really hurts to think so many people believe the comparisons necessary.
 
I am one of those people that support both sides of the field.
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Old 05-12-2005, 03:17 AM   #9
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You basically said what I was trying to say... just in less words hehe.  If you are only concerned about being number one all the time... you are gonna get disappointed.  Some time, some where, someone will out do you in something.  So instead of trying to pick a class based on max dps numbers, or ability to kill mob X, try to think of what role you will play in your xp parties starting off, and eventually guild raids.  Take a look at the spells, see what catches your eye.  Today warlock can be top dps, tomorrow monk, next day who knows.  Pick something and enjoy it, and realize in the end... this is just a game.  Your life is not over if another class out does you in something you thought they should not of.  Try to have fun, and be nice to your fellow playmates.
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Old 05-12-2005, 06:33 PM   #10
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Truth be told, I'm envious of the ability wizards have when it comes to power heals. Very envious indeed.
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Old 05-12-2005, 06:41 PM   #11
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If you'r taking aggro from a zerker, tell him to buy upgrades to his taunts.

- He can buy apprentice 2 spells at a city merchant, and better from players.

 

Odds are he havent, and it's nearly certain that he aren't taking his taunt traits every 10 levels.

 

You wont get aggro from a decent zerker pre 37, even if you nuke the mob with your biggest shot while it's incomming.

After 37, you just need to start off with a debuff, and all is well again in wonderland..

 

 

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Old 05-12-2005, 07:33 PM   #12
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You wont get aggro from a decent zerker pre 37, even if you nuke the mob with your biggest shot while it's incomming.

 

This isn't 100% true, I have pulled hate several times from a very good Zerker while in RoV fighting Glay Guardians. He was 32 and I was 29...but most of the time he was excellent. He was excellent at crowd control in majority of situations and everything he is supposed to do...but there were a few times when I or our Wizards (also Lv29) snatched hate (stuns, rooting and nuking from myself and the wizard in the group fixed that though)

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Old 05-18-2005, 05:59 PM   #13
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Zerkers get agro not only from their taunts but also from their great dps.  So their taunting ability is going to be limited by a couple things:
1. Skill level of player
2. Level of their taunts
3. Quality of their weapons/stats
4. Level of their other skill/spell which add to better dps.
 
If you have all your spells upgraded to the max and your tank is weak in a couple of these areas, then you're gonna have to back off a bit.
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Old 05-18-2005, 06:03 PM   #14
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Best thing I can tell you when you are grouping for bigger mobs, IE 40+^^ types, is wait a few seconds, 5 will do, then start into your casting pattern.  Once you've laid out a few good nukes, lay down your root.  In your case, Bony Grasp.  This will hold the mob in place long enough for you to lay waste to them.  This is a good tactic that I use with Ring of Cold when the mob has been depleted of almost half his life.  Once the root holds, bust out your nukes, and go nuts. 
 
Only drawback will come if you time your root at the incorrect time, and you end up taking tons of aggro at the end of the fight.  Keep an eye on your stun and stifle buttons to counteract this problem.
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Old 05-22-2005, 04:47 AM   #15
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IM starting a warlock so i had to look at this thread and then someone is talking about a zerker tanking and saying that they should get better taunts etc... While this is true also half the time i see warlocks open up with heavy nukes in the start of the fight.... The last time i had a non guildie warlock  in a group and he did you know what i did? I let him die..... Cmon now you think its easy to hold agro over wizzie/warlock , swashie and brusier types.... if you think it is then you play a tank at 50 and talk to me... Agro management in groups swings not only at tanks but at group members as well, knowing when to nuke is prolly the smartest thing you can do for your group
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Old 05-22-2005, 06:31 AM   #16
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   Let me tell you my experience ... In a raiding guild, if I go down, the wizards mana feed me, especially when needing to kill multiple targets (i.e. in Zek) fast. Obviously, the wizzies are nuking in between. I can easily do 400+ DPS in a raid as well.
   The biggest thing I've seen wizzies sought after are for their heat/cold resists to be honest a lot of raid mobs do heat/cold damage.
 
 Hope that answers your question =)

Message Edited by StevaiB77 on 05-21-2005 07:40 PM

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Old 05-26-2005, 06:01 PM   #17
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At this point we don't know what the new combat changes and supposed reworking of the spells will bring but I will give you my view based on today's mechanics.  My main is a Wizard, I've been 50 since December and have done significant raiding.  I also have started to play on a friends 50 Warlock while they are away.  As things stand right now, if you are planning on doing a lot of raiding I would recommend the Warlock.  They are more usefull and better DPS on the majority of raids.  Warlocks get power drains, aoe with stuns and very good AoE damage which is very helpfull for most raid situations. 

Comparing the dps of a 50 Wizard to a 50 Warlock on SINGLE  target mobs that are not immune to ice I find the Wizard to dish out more damage.  This is because the Wizard debuffs can dish out close to 1000 points of damage all while you are blasting away with Ice Comet (2992-3657 adept 3) , immolation (2000 damage over 8 secs) and fill with ball of flames/westfend.  Recently they changed the Wizard level 44 stun to be a 1 second cast time and last 6 seconds (3 minute recast), which helps when the aoe root wears off and you are waiting for it to cycle.  With my Wizard I can easilly solo ^^ mobs.  I even solo'd the chief that spawns by the tree in everfrost (It was a while ago I don't remember his name.)  I have tried soloing similar stuff with the Warlock and while it can be done (you get the same good AoE root spell, suplmental roots and stuns) it wasn't as easy.  Granted I'm not as proficient with the Warlock but the things that seemed to make it easier with the Wizard is the fact that the debuffs dish out decent damage, Ice Comet dishes out a lot of quick damage, and the level 44 stun is 1 second cast time.  I usually have a ^^48+ mob well below half before the first root wears off.

From 30-49 however, the edge goes to the Warlock.  At those levels power is important and the Warlock spells are much more power efficient.  Likewise the dps level of the warlock spells in that range is better than the Wizards.  Nil Distortion for example can dish out over 2k damage and has an 18 second recast time.  Wizards have to use Ball of Flames which uses up a lot more power (6 second recast  but maxes at around 900 damage).

Wizards are better at transferring power (they get 2 spells that do it)  One is like the Warlock version which just xfers a modest amount of power with no side effect.  The other stuns the Wizard for 6 secons (training choice) or 12 seconds but transfers a noticeable chunk of power.  This is useful for raids but it's not exactly fun standing around stunned half the time.  Wizards also get very good group Heat and cold buffs.  (more heat than cold but both are good.)  Wizards of course get evac, but thats a convenience feature and certainly not something to base your decision on.

When it comes to raiding, the majority of contested mobs are immune to ice.  What this means is that you can NOT use your debuffs (since they are cold based), and you can not use Ice Comet or Westfends.  Since you can't debuff, your fire based spells will be hitting for 1/8 to 1/4 damage 90% of the time.  Those that are not immune to Ice, have very high fire resistances (Negalik, Darathar and Fist.)  Venekor seems to be the only exception.  This was not the case with any of the raid mobs that I played the Warlock for.  Not even Venekor was immune to poison.  The other area that Warlocks really excel at is AoE damage.  Devastation does 554-678 and 410-502 every 1.5 seconds for 6 seconds with a stun at the end (Adept 3) on up to 5 targets.  Nil Absolution (Adept 1) does 337-412 and 48-59 every 1.5 seconds for 6 seconds.  Dark Nebula (adept 3) does 156-191.  Abysmal Fury (Master 1)  does 255-345. 

The bottom line is, I like my Wizard but I've been playing the Warlock more often due to the Immunities of most raid mobs.  Keep in mind, that even on those mobs not immune to ice a Warlock still dishes out a nice chunk of damage (comparable to the Wizard.)  Again this is because most raid mobs in general  have higher elemental resistances than poison.  Basically a Warlock is guaranteed to have good DPS in all raid situations for a Wizard it depends on which mobs.  There are a bunch of mobs that we do need a Wizard for the elemental resists.

Message Edited by killzone on 05-26-2005 07:13 AM

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Old 05-28-2005, 02:33 PM   #18
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In reply to SalBluee

 

Here is a link to at least ONE of the articles I belive you are refering to.

 

If you notice, Sony DOES believe wizard/warlock should be approximately equivalent.  What does this mean IMO?  Simple wizard needs a lil bump in dps, perhaps not much but a bump in power efficiency.  THEN the warlock either needs improvements in spells, or fixes to the spells.  If you open up the two spell lists and read down what each spell is supposed to do you'll find that warlocks are supposed to have all sorts of added bonuses to their spells.  I have no clue if they are working right now, but you’ll see that the wizard ones are basically ‘add a dot some of the times.’  Basically it’s not just a question of weather or not wizards are doing enough damage, but also where the warlock needs its utility helped.

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