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Old 12-06-2007, 09:26 PM   #1
Geist

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FD is one of the fews things not totally broken or gimped on Brawlers, please don't break the only thing that actually works for us by messing with it needlessly.

I don't know how Necros feel about this change, but seriously, leave FD for Brawlers the way it is now on Live servers.

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Old 12-06-2007, 09:49 PM   #2
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what exactly is the problem? they way i read it they are adding the option to cilck the button again to end the effect instead of having to stand up or rightclick-canel the bufficon to end it, how would this break fd?
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:02 PM   #3
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Taken from EQ2 Flames from here:"Feign Death is a skill that's likely to be used in a situation where you don't want to stand up again and lag will generate a need(or, more aptly, the illusion of a need) for FD to be clicked two, or more, times and subsequently immediately cancel itself."Lag with RoK is horrendous in this expansion, if they fix the lag problem then sure make this needless change.  However if this doesn't change then why fix something if it isn't broken?  There are plenty of things that are not working how they should or completely broke with this expansion, go fix them.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:53 PM   #4
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[email protected] DLere wrote:
what exactly is the problem? they way i read it they are adding the option to cilck the button again to end the effect instead of having to stand up or rightclick-canel the bufficon to end it, how would this break fd?

You underestimate the development team's ability to unwittingly break everything they touch.  FD works completely fine as it is, and can only get worse if they mess with it.  As the poster above me said, if you double-tap the key, or press it a second time because of lag, you auto-cancel it.

I think they're making this change because some people get confused by having to stand up again after FD.  Make a tutorial tip pop up the first time a toon FD's.. and that'll be good enough.

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Old 12-06-2007, 11:16 PM   #5
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This change is [Removed for Content].FD is an 'oh sh#@!' spellyou know, the kind of button/hotkey you spam. Say for instance im a brawler, i just got stunned by a big bad mob's spell / aoe and he is running to me. this mob will likely kick my butt if im stunned, so i'm sitting there clicking my FD hotkey rapidly hoping to get cured, or for the stun to wear off, this change will make me stand back up and get whacked. i dont see how this change would be for people would got FD'd by a group member (monk  or SK) b/c they wont have a hotkey to toggle. so why this change?
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Old 12-06-2007, 11:25 PM   #6
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I agree with the sentiments of the posters above.  Right now you CAN'T screw it up by hitting the key multiple times, which is a good thing.  And it's not like the FD icon is hard to find, as the maintained effects window (which for necros at least FD shows up on) is NEVER so full you can't find the icon.  And this isn't something that can be tested as well on either your internal servers, or Test itself, as I'm willing to bet the lag (due to server load I mean) never gets NEARLY as bad in those places as it does on a live server.  Perhaps you can simulate it, but it's never the same, and this is where this change falls down.Leave it alone please.
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:23 AM   #7
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It's called UI consistency.  Just about all other maintained effects can be canceled by pressing the activation button again.  I play a necromancer and I am not bothered by this in the least.
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Old 12-07-2007, 01:54 AM   #8
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I am totally against this, and the accidentally canceling it cause of double click doesn't even bother me! The recast atm starts when you hit the button. Making it toggleable means the recast won't start UNTIL you cancel it just like with every other toggleable spell, which is the worst thing in this change.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:15 AM   #9
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[email protected] DLere wrote:
It's called UI consistency.  Just about all other maintained effects can be canceled by pressing the activation button again.  I play a necromancer and I am not bothered by this in the least.
It's called reading comprehension.  Notice the topic of the thread says Brawler FD?  I don't know or care how Necros, SK's, Tinkerers, or anyone else who can cast, proc, or fake FD.  Every Brawler should be against this change.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:37 AM   #10
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well spotted Yukia, think your totally on the money there, i completely would have missed that side of the change. be good to hear if it will be refresh timer begins when you toggle off or as it is now from when you 1st fd. because if it is from the toggle id sure be against this change to
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:58 AM   #11
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[email protected] DLere wrote:
It's called UI consistency.  Just about all other maintained effects can be canceled by pressing the activation button again.  I play a necromancer and I am not bothered by this in the least.
Most of the maintained spells you refer to have a non-zero casting time.  Since FD is immediate, it will be far too susceptible to the accidental double click.  Moreover, the motivation for the change is based on a faulty premise.  You don't currently have to right click cancel  to undo FD.  You can press X to stand up.  We don't need another way to stand up that will also cause us to die accidentally from hotkey lag.  In case it isn't clear, I too am against this change.  It will make FD much less usable--not make it more usable like UI "improvements' usually should.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:03 AM   #12
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TheSummoned wrote:
I am totally against this, and the accidentally canceling it cause of double click doesn't even bother me! The recast atm starts when you hit the button. Making it toggleable means the recast won't start UNTIL you cancel it just like with every other toggleable spell, which is the worst thing in this change.
This concerns me even more than the double-click.  GREAT catch.Can somebody on test confirm the behavior either way?
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:16 AM   #13
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I don't understand the NEED to spam FD.

If your stuned you hit FD ONCE and it becomes a Qued Action and the second the stun goes away you FD, so its accually FASTER to NOT spam FD because spaming it Takes it in and out of being qued, and therefor it won't go into effect until the first time you click it after the stun wears off. As for lag making you beleave you didn't hit it, well again it's client side that will show that it is qued. As to the Timer not counting down until you unclick it, while this does slow down the recharge of our group FD, I don't see how a 10sec recast is so long that you would need to wait for it to recharge befor un-FDing. So I really think this is a major "Sky is Falling" post.

That said I can't see the POINT of this change either, is it to make it easier for people who are FD to end it? If so it does nothing of the sort as it is just as easy to press the stand hotkey, plus it does nothing for people who are FDed by others, via group FD or the Nercro/SK FD spell. So if that is the point of the change then it is a bad change, not because of some "sky is falling" improbable what if senario that can be over come with a minor change in playstyle. Its a bad change because not only is it Unnessicary but it also does not occomplish the goal, and making unnessicary changes to complex code is a very bad thing. Now if I am wrong in the reasoning behind this change please some Dev correct me and we can then decuess the merits of the change based on thier reason for it.

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Old 12-07-2007, 03:30 AM   #14
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ke'la wrote:

I don't understand the NEED to spam FD.

If your stuned you hit FD ONCE and it becomes a Qued Action and the second the stun goes away you FD, so its accually FASTER to NOT spam FD because spaming it Takes it in and out of being qued, and therefor it won't go into effect until the first time you click it after the stun wears off. As for lag making you beleave you didn't hit it, well again it's client side that will show that it is qued. As to the Timer not counting down until you unclick it, while this does slow down the recharge of our group FD, I don't see how a 10sec recast is so long that you would need to wait for it to recharge befor un-FDing. So I really think this is a major "Sky is Falling" post.

That said I can't see the POINT of this change either, is it to make it easier for people who are FD to end it? If so it does nothing of the sort as it is just as easy to press the stand hotkey, plus it does nothing for people who are FDed by others, via group FD or the Nercro/SK FD spell. So if that is the point of the change then it is a bad change, not because of some "sky is falling" improbable what if senario that can be over come with a minor change in playstyle. Its a bad change because not only is it Unnessicary but it also does not occomplish the goal, and making unnessicary changes to complex code is a very bad thing. Now if I am wrong in the reasoning behind this change please some Dev correct me and we can then decuess the merits of the change based on thier reason for it.

I've used the wait 10 seconds for the next FD a whole lot, and it is actually very useful. Just because you can't think of a situation where it might get used doesn't mean it won't be used.
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Old 12-07-2007, 05:54 AM   #15
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As a Necro with a LONG wait to recast incase of a Double panic click, I am against this all the way.  LEAVE IT ALONE.

 If you just have to change it because the LU41 list is too short and just have to stick something off the wall in there ... which you shouldn't ... Make it have a Reclick timer of say... 10 seconds.  But if we sit/stand it will break as usual.

 And a very good point 2 posts up about 'what about the people who were feign death'd by another person?' where's their unfiegn button.  We've played 3 years now and it's not rocket science to stand/sit to break it.

 Quit jacking with stuff that works and probably... oh... change up FrostFell so us 4 year vets will have something to actually go back in there with.

 Orrrrr...  Make LoN messages only visible to people who actually play it... orrrrrr make a Check box in Chat options to Disable that spam.

 (Next there will be google ads ingame when you open the Broker)

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Old 12-07-2007, 09:27 AM   #16
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LEAVE FEIGN DEATH ALONE!

Everyone knows how the developers have been slowly but surely making the game easier for everyone over the past 3 years.

How is changing Feign Death to cancel out if you click it a 2nd time making things easier for classes who get feign death?

We don't want stupid-easy. We want a failsafe to make sure we stay alive. As it stands, the way FD is RIGHT NOW and has been since the game started, is exactly as easy as the skill is suppose to use.

I mean all players have to do to cancel it is hit X to stand up. We don't want to cancel it by clicking the button again.

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Old 12-07-2007, 09:56 AM   #17
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Another vote for LEAVE IT ALONE...IF IT'S NOT BROKE DON'T FIX IT.
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Old 12-07-2007, 10:28 AM   #18
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Utterly, and totally stupid change.

No logic at all to it!

The only logic is to hope people waste their FD through clicking and lag and stand back and get whacked.

GOOD JOB SOE!

Keep up the good work.

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Old 12-07-2007, 11:25 AM   #19
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I like this change.  It's about time.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:28 AM   #20
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urgatorbait wrote:
I like this change.  It's about time.
What is there to like about it? What saves you from having the sit/stand key on a hot bar or learning to type /stand or hit X? This HAS the chance to do more harm then good. It only takes one time for your to double click FD for it to not be worth the change. One time.Sorry SOE but I have to agree. Leave FD alone.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:44 AM   #21
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urgatorbait wrote:
I like this change.  It's about time.

Just being a troll, or are you dense enough to not realize how there is nothing good about this change?

Here is a l33t strat for you....hit X.

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Old 12-07-2007, 12:39 PM   #22
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Geist wrote:
[email protected] DLere wrote:
It's called UI consistency.  Just about all other maintained effects can be canceled by pressing the activation button again.  I play a necromancer and I am not bothered by this in the least.
It's called reading comprehension.  Notice the topic of the thread says Brawler FD?  I don't know or care how Necros, SK's, Tinkerers, or anyone else who can cast, proc, or fake FD.  Every Brawler should be against this change.
You know, you loose most of your support for your case by saying oh I don't care if you break something for others as long as I personally am not affected.  It is a common issue for any FD class.  How would it be if I said oh thats great for brawlers I don't care about them, take away their FD completely just leave necro's alone?  I would gladly count myself in with saying this is a bad move, and I am completely against it, it introduces tons of accidents, not to mention it will likely change the reuse time, meaning when you drop FD the timer will start at that point, but oh I play a necro SMILEY
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:48 PM   #23
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1.  Fix the lag during peek time hours2.  Fix the zoning3.  Fix theT7 M1 vs T8 AD3 CAs/Spells4.  Fix the itemization All of the above are broke or seriously messed up and need some attention and have 5+ threads about them.FD mechanics are not broken, so why are you changing it when there is so many other things that need fixing?
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:53 PM   #24
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Yeah with the refresh timer not starting until the spell is cancelled as opposed to cast, AND now the chance to waste your FD if a double click is done through lag, or just the OH [Removed for Content] moment of hitting the spell...this is a ridiculously unecessary change.

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Old 12-07-2007, 01:51 PM   #25
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Galeden wrote:
You know, you loose most of your support for your case by saying oh I don't care if you break something for others as long as I personally am not affected.  It is a common issue for any FD class.  How would it be if I said oh thats great for brawlers I don't care about them, take away their FD completely just leave necro's alone?  I would gladly count myself in with saying this is a bad move, and I am completely against it, it introduces tons of accidents, not to mention it will likely change the reuse time, meaning when you drop FD the timer will start at that point, but oh I play a necro SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15">
Appologies.  I more meant that I don't care how other people feel about it, because I know the Brawlers are going to hate it... if other classes hate this change, great, we can use the support.  What I don't want is someone coming in here and pretending like this change will effect a Tinkerer the way it effects a Brawler.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:12 PM   #26
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I use my necro main as an example for the simple fact that my bruiser is only lvl 13.  I'll move her forward on my play-time rotation so I can get FD, and then I'll copy Ms. Martial Artist over to Test and find out for myself if this is the disaster in the making that the Brawler community seems to think it is.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:23 PM   #27
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Kaleyen wrote:
1.  Fix the lag during peek time hours2.  Fix the zoning3.  Fix theT7 M1 vs T8 AD3 CAs/Spells4.  Fix the itemization All of the above are broke or seriously messed up and need some attention and have 5+ threads about them.FD mechanics are not broken, so why are you changing it when there is so many other things that need fixing?
I totally agree.. Fix stuff that IS broken, and leave stuff alone that's not!  SMILEY  I dont understand why this change is taking place, sure it'll make room for one more hotkey off the bar (stand/sit). But, this is a HUGE change to FD. I have a Shadowknight and a monk and I dont know how this is going to affect them, but I have moments where I spam the FD key just because i'm either stunned or it didnt register with the lag, or whatever. This would be a huge mistake to change the way FD works.  I've been playing my SK and my husband his Necro more and lately we've been in zones where some plat farmer trains mobs onto us just because we're there. But we at least have the tools to avoid getting killed, like FD. When this happens we usually FD and then open the petition page and petition and report the person who just trained us, and our FD counters are counting down, so by the time we finish it's back up and ready to use again in case the plat farmer decides to try and kill us again. Changing the way the FD works and the way the count down timer works is taking away from certain classes playability to survive. I think it's a HUGE mistake to change it, please Devs... please don't change this!
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:06 PM   #28
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[email protected] DLere wrote:
I use my necro main as an example for the simple fact that my bruiser is only lvl 13.  I'll move her forward on my play-time rotation so I can get FD, and then I'll copy Ms. Martial Artist over to Test and find out for myself if this is the disaster in the making that the Brawler community seems to think it is.

You are not grasping how this affects you.

As a necro your FD lasts for 5 mins and has a 5 min recast.

As it is now, you can can FD, lay there for the full 5 mins, pop up, and be able to use FD again because the 5 min refresh timer has expired.

With this change, you cannot do that anymore, your 5 min refresh on FD has just turned into min 5 minutes if you stand right up, but it is now 5 mins + whatever time you spent on the ground FD up to 5 mins.

This is actually worse for necros then brawlers in that regard.

Plus if you get high enough to raid regularly....you will have times when your FD is not working because of a stun....if you hit over and over again as you can now, you FD as soon as you can, in this change, you will simply finally be able to to FD, then instantly stand right up again and waste your FD.

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Old 12-07-2007, 04:13 PM   #29
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Actually it isn't worse or better for necros as they are changing the duration of a necro's FD to 12 hours as well.

Just fyi.

But yea, as a shadowknight, this seems very stupid.

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Old 12-07-2007, 04:25 PM   #30
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Pyra Shineflame wrote:

Actually it isn't worse or better for necros as they are changing the duration of a necro's FD to 12 hours as well.

Just fyi.

But yea, as a shadowknight, this seems very stupid.

Wel unless the refresh is changed from 5 mins to 10 seconds it is still a bit worse on necros, but it sucks overall to any FD class.

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