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Old 10-24-2012, 02:18 PM   #1
Brienae
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 I wanted to start a conversation on our new Prestige.  I'm skipping the old abilities because they haven't changed.

Starting on the Right:  As of now this is the most common line taken by Troubadors because it seems to do more in general.

Reverberation: 

Applies Energetic Reverberation lasts for 30s. On any combat or spell hit this spell will cast Energetic Reverberation on target of attack.  Increases power of catser by 51-94.  Inflicts 239-429 magic damage on target encounter. Inflicts 4249-7436 damage on targets in Area of Effect.

 This ability sounds like a nice boost to dps and from my testing yesterday you can keep it running.  It showed up for 1% of my output damage.  Not much but it did show up.  It also procs some power back to us, but not being in any fights with power drains it is hard to tell how much if any power is returned.

Piercing Reverberation

Improves the Damage of Reverberations Initial damage by 150

This is pretty self explanatory.  I admit I did not test with all 3 ranks in the ability (They were spread one in each)  Theoretically this could be a further boost to dps.  Not much else to say.

Imbued Reverberation

Reverberation will apply two increments and has a 50% chance to apply a third increment.

If I understand Increments correctly this basically allows Reverberation to last longer applying further ticks basically.  This means more time for the damage to tick... possibly more power in the Increments?

Uplifting Uproar

Increases the Potency of the group by 6 per increment following Reverberation.

6 does not seem like much but I guess if it's per increment then it could add up.

Soul Resonation

Lowers the base reuse time of Victorious Concerto tp 240 seconds

Lowers the base reuse time of Rhythmic Overture to 120 seconds

Again self explanatory could be useful, because it meants more VCs

The center abilities:

Energetic Melody

On any combat or spell hit this spell may Energetic Melody on target of attack.  Triggers about 6.0 times per minute.  Increases power of caster  Increases power of caster by 109-181. Inflicts 2342-3903 magic damage on target encounter.

Sounds nice.  Again a little bit of power to caster.  This has potential

Mamba of Blades

On death blow this spell will cast Mamba of Blads on Target.  Lasts 15 Minutes.  Dispelled when a group member dies. Increases Spell Weapon Attack Speed of group members (AE) by 2.0.  Increases Attack Speed of group members (AE) by 4.0

I know that Spell Weapon stats are hard to come by so why are we giving only 2.0 Spell Weapon Attack speed and ourselves 4? Attack Speed is on everything and in such quantities we reforge it down to other things.

Over to the Left.  I went down this side for a brief time when they first cae out with the Prestige abilities but it didn't seem to do as much as it should.  It just did not seem worth the points spent in it.  I decided with the new abilities to try going down this line again and see do the new abilties make this line worth it?

Bagpipe Solo

Restores 30% of the damage received.  The healing of this spell cannot be modified except by direct means

So a health siphon... sounds kind of nice. Could hold potential.

Continued Performance

Improves the duration of Bagpipe Solo by 100%

So assuming it continues to siphon health, not bad.

Powerful Solo

Bagpipe Solo will restore 12% of the damage taken as power.

12% is not much but this does put it back in line with the power regen theme.  Siphoning Health and power does sound intriguing.

Infected by the Sound

Bagpipe Solo will apply a short duration effect that reflects 6% of all incoming damage on the group

A reflect not bad... actually sounds like more of a reflect than Requiem of Reflection and the fact that it is all damage... makes this sound even better.

Sound Vortex

Lowers the base reuse speed of Abhorrent verse to 120 seconds and makes it cast instantly.

I admit I haven't used Abhorrent verse but I understand it is situational.  As situational as this ability is having a shorter recast does not look like it will do much.  I have an idea that I think would work better and that is: Change Energizing Ballad to be a group wide power feed.  Leave everything else about Energizing Ballad alone (the recast and duration) but allow this ability to make it group wide. 

As I post this I am 93 with 30% so I was unable to spend all of the points so by all means if someone has gotten to 95 and can further test these please feel free to do so.  I would also like to see more discussion.  We are a minority let us be a vocal minority to better our class.

 

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Old 10-25-2012, 02:32 AM   #2
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 Ty for posting this info.

Overall this new Prestige feals way to weak,

Some power regen, 1%ish dps is that it?

reflects and some heals are nice as troubs ussaly run's with 1 healer grp'a but 6% is way to low, make that 12% at least and atm thats on the wrong side so cant pick it anyway..

Potency of the group by 6 ? is that low or is it low?

I have tried it on beta not for a long time so I cant realy say yet , will try right side tonight at raid 

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Old 10-25-2012, 06:44 AM   #3
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[email protected] DLere wrote:

 I wanted to start a conversation on our new Prestige.  I'm skipping the old abilities because they haven't changed.

Starting on the Right:  As of now this is the most common line taken by Troubadors because it seems to do more in general.

Reverberation: 

Applies Energetic Reverberation lasts for 30s. On any combat or spell hit this spell will cast Energetic Reverberation on target of attack.  Increases power of catser by 51-94.  Inflicts 239-429 magic damage on target encounter. Inflicts 4249-7436 damage on targets in Area of Effect.

 This ability sounds like a nice boost to dps and from my testing yesterday you can keep it running.  It showed up for 1% of my output damage.  Not much but it did show up.  It also procs some power back to us, but not being in any fights with power drains it is hard to tell how much if any power is returned.

Piercing Reverberation

Improves the Damage of Reverberations Initial damage by 150

This is pretty self explanatory.  I admit I did not test with all 3 ranks in the ability (They were spread one in each)  Theoretically this could be a further boost to dps.  Not much else to say.

Imbued Reverberation

Reverberation will apply two increments and has a 50% chance to apply a third increment.

If I understand Increments correctly this basically allows Reverberation to last longer applying further ticks basically.  This means more time for the damage to tick... possibly more power in the Increments?

Uplifting Uproar

Increases the Potency of the group by 6 per increment following Reverberation.

6 does not seem like much but I guess if it's per increment then it could add up.

Soul Resonation

Lowers the base reuse time of Victorious Concerto tp 240 seconds

Lowers the base reuse time of Rhythmic Overture to 120 seconds

Again self explanatory could be useful, because it meants more VCs

The center abilities:

Energetic Melody

On any combat or spell hit this spell may Energetic Melody on target of attack.  Triggers about 6.0 times per minute.  Increases power of caster  Increases power of caster by 109-181. Inflicts 2342-3903 magic damage on target encounter.

Sounds nice.  Again a little bit of power to caster.  This has potential

Mamba of Blades

On death blow this spell will cast Mamba of Blads on Target.  Lasts 15 Minutes.  Dispelled when a group member dies. Increases Spell Weapon Attack Speed of group members (AE) by 2.0.  Increases Attack Speed of group members (AE) by 4.0

I know that Spell Weapon stats are hard to come by so why are we giving only 2.0 Spell Weapon Attack speed and ourselves 4? Attack Speed is on everything and in such quantities we reforge it down to other things.

Over to the Left.  I went down this side for a brief time when they first cae out with the Prestige abilities but it didn't seem to do as much as it should.  It just did not seem worth the points spent in it.  I decided with the new abilities to try going down this line again and see do the new abilties make this line worth it?

Bagpipe Solo

Restores 30% of the damage received.  The healing of this spell cannot be modified except by direct means

So a health siphon... sounds kind of nice. Could hold potential.

Continued Performance

Improves the duration of Bagpipe Solo by 100%

So assuming it continues to siphon health, not bad.

Powerful Solo

Bagpipe Solo will restore 12% of the damage taken as power.

12% is not much but this does put it back in line with the power regen theme.  Siphoning Health and power does sound intriguing.

Infected by the Sound

Bagpipe Solo will apply a short duration effect that reflects 6% of all incoming damage on the group

A reflect not bad... actually sounds like more of a reflect than Requiem of Reflection and the fact that it is all damage... makes this sound even better.

Sound Vortex

Lowers the base reuse speed of Abhorrent verse to 120 seconds and makes it cast instantly.

I admit I haven't used Abhorrent verse but I understand it is situational.  As situational as this ability is having a shorter recast does not look like it will do much.  I have an idea that I think would work better and that is: Change Energizing Ballad to be a group wide power feed.  Leave everything else about Energizing Ballad alone (the recast and duration) but allow this ability to make it group wide. 

As I post this I am 93 with 30% so I was unable to spend all of the points so by all means if someone has gotten to 95 and can further test these please feel free to do so.  I would also like to see more discussion.  We are a minority let us be a vocal minority to better our class.

 

From what I remember... for each target struck by Reverberation you would normally get 1 increment.  You can enhance this so that each target struck will grant 2 with a 50% chance at a third.  For each increment you get one trigger of the dmg proc I believe.  You can also enhance the ability to grant up to 6 potency per increment for a total of 36 potency.  The potency and dmg procs I believe were groupwide.  

Bagpipe Solo is best viewed as an ability that reactively heals a % of dmg taken by members in the group.  It can be used as a power heal in a similar fashion to manacloak.  It also can reflect a portion of the dmg taken by grp members back upon their source.  The potential of the reflect is still unknown to me since I have yet to actually test it in a raid setting on beta.  

Requiem of Reflection is more of a stoneskin proc than anything.  

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Old 10-25-2012, 11:26 AM   #4
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It's a total of 72 potency. For the group.

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Old 10-25-2012, 06:04 PM   #5
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Glad to see a little bit of discussion already.

Personally I would loveto see the left side be a viable option so we truly have a choice rather than every Trouby taking the right because it's better.  I'd prefer to see more of a choice.  Hopefully I can level quickly and test the left in a Raid.  We shall see.

As I said maybe a further tweak to Energizing Ballad would make this line more worth it.

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Old 10-31-2012, 04:15 PM   #6
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Guess 6 was too much, nerfed today down to 1 per rank, so max of 72 is now 12 (if you can get and maintain max)

Plus am I wrong in wishing we were getting CB instead of potency like the dirges are getting?

Other than that all of these are weak, nothing much, a few power tricks (if they ever do away with 70% power drainds per tick might matter), some small dps items.  I generally like group buffing abilities for the troub role but sometimes they just aren't significant enough to matter. 

Nothing that sounds fun, different or reallly important.  A step up from adding 1-5% potency or whatever half of them were last time, but not really creative.  

I'd love a HIGH spell double attack added to JC or UT ability

or a group defensive spell / aoe blocker on a short timer since we usually end up in the cloth groups (BD timer is still too long even with AA's IMO - maybe the new one requires no movement or something but shorter recast)

or another raid buffing ability like POTM raidwide, but just something else - a raidwide aoe blocker (heh), raidwide jesters (including aa benefits) on a 5min timer - something like that would be FUN and interesting.

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Old 11-01-2012, 02:45 PM   #7
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72 to 12 , thats just so crappy, we hade 1 thing that was ok and now we dont, why even bother to put them in the first place, If there other classes that needs a boost, give them dont nerf some classes to 0, where is the fun in that. INstead give the mobs some HP, they flying down.

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Old 11-01-2012, 03:47 PM   #8
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Ok first of all:

Previously this was 2% per Rank per increment.  At Rank 3, this is 6%/Increment.  Max 12 Increments = 72%

The change only cut this down to 1% per Rank per increment.  3 points = 3%/increment.  Its still max 12 Increments = 36% Potency.

It was cut in half, not down to 12% (unless you only put 1 point into it!) and honestly 36% Potency is still decent.

Yes, personally as a Troub, I would much prefer to have CB.  However my group - being mages - prefer Potency which makes it perfectly reasonable to have Troubs with potency and dirges with CB.

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Old 11-01-2012, 04:22 PM   #9
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Ok 36 is decent and yes , we are here to make mages look good so Pot is fine

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Old 11-05-2012, 02:41 PM   #10
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Ah ok, thx for the correction.  36 isn't bad, but what I'm wondering is how easy it is to get and maintain the full 12 increments.  I mean should we be acting like the optimal max potential of the spell is the defacto expectation of the spell (and balancing around that), or will most troubs only be getting half of those increments for most short/trash fights and be reset back to 0 after some aoe knocks them around after finally at 12 increments during a longer name fight.

I'd really rather have the ability to make it potency or CB for both dirge/troub.  Nobody I talked to, outside of mystic/defiler prefers potency (since SoE only gives 50% CB for wards).  Mages benefit from CB, just not as much because most don't melee or use wands.  So I figure at my mages do simliarly well with either, but with CB it benefits the Me, the SK, or if the mage group happens to not be as pure-mage as ideal (which happens ALOT).  

Yeah potency is great for mystic/dirge, and is ok for mages that don't auto attack.  CB is great for all tanks, all soucts, and is great for pirests/mages that either melee or use wands.  Its ok for all priest/mages that only use spells.  Dirges seem to get taken better care of because the dirge community is way more active than us, so I just wanted to throw my thoughts on it out there while it might matter.

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Old 11-07-2012, 01:28 PM   #11
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I'm not really happy to see the "dps" line (considering that it's still the haste>pot line and yes, troubs like cb too) being nerfed again.

First a new ae with great triggers and 72 pot for the group... OK, it was a bit overpowered.

Then 36 pot, and bad (really bad) triggers.

Now even the new ae is bad with it's reuse, 22.5 pot... There were probably another way to allow us to keep the increments of uplifting uproar without making the other new things useless (keeping reverberation's reuse for example...)

Besides, why do we have 30 ma = 1 cb on left side, while dirges have 25 ma = 1 pot on right side (the right side which also buffs their cb with echoing power), condidering they have 20 dps = 1 cb while we have 20 haste = 1 pot ? (20 haste = 1 cb or 12 pot = 1cb on right side would make me very happy, but I'm digressing)

Also, I wasn't able to get an increment of mamba of blades this afternoon (solo). Does it proc only if another group/raid member makes the death blow or I have missed something because my english is too bad?

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:01 PM   #12
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I'm getting increments of mamba of blades fine. Too bad it's still not worth 1 point, let alone 2.

Troub AAs are pretty terrible now. Entire left line's concept is terrible. Groupwide adrenaline? No thanks. Berserkers can keep that terrible spell, at least it's kind of useful for them for soloing (The dirge one is only good because of Infectious Dissonance, and Infected by the Sound is completely terrible in comparison). Reverberation's damage is OK, I guess, but the proc on it is laughable. I'd say troubs should go double conversion but the start of the left line has been terrible since it was created too.

Energetic Melody/Energetic Reverberation procs just don't work. There's not enough ae encounter content. You have to have 4 adds up over 75% of the encounter time for an ae encounter ability (generally set to be 1/3rd of the damage of an ST ability) for them to even come close to their ST counterparts, and these two abilities aren't going to do any major required add-killing dps to begin with. They won't even make a dent. The only mobs I can think of that accomplished having enough ae encounter content in DoV/Drunder/Sleepers/PoW are...a guild's first few kills on Berik/Tagrin (After that you're lucky if they have 50% uptime). Generals in Tallon's would've been good if you didn't have to tank them across the room from each other. The only mob I've seen in beta that it would be useful on is the Bouncer x2 encounter in Eidolon Jungle.

Mamba of Blades is still laughable at best. Especially since it's a mage group, someone is going to be dying a lot. On harder content, troubs won't be maintaining 25 stacks ever. If anyone dies once after trash in PoW, you can count on not having the buffs for the rest of the zone. Even if you could maintain 25 stacks, 100 haste and 2.5 doublecast is....meh.

This is probably the spec I'd use if it gets pushed to live like this. I wouldn't even spend the last 2 points because I'd rather be able to say I don't have a use for all my prestige points than spending 2 points in a <3-4k dps increase.

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Old 11-08-2012, 09:48 AM   #13
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I'm getting increments of mamba of blades fine. Too bad it's still not worth 1 point, let alone 2.

Troub AAs are pretty terrible now. Entire left line's concept is terrible. Groupwide adrenaline? No thanks. Berserkers can keep that terrible spell, at least it's kind of useful for them for soloing (The dirge one is only good because of Infectious Dissonance, and Infected by the Sound is completely terrible in comparison). Reverberation's damage is OK, I guess, but the proc on it is laughable. I'd say troubs should go double conversion but the start of the left line has been terrible since it was created too.

Energetic Melody/Energetic Reverberation procs just don't work. There's not enough ae encounter content. You have to have 4 adds up over 75% of the encounter time for an ae encounter ability (generally set to be 1/3rd of the damage of an ST ability) for them to even come close to their ST counterparts, and these two abilities aren't going to do any major required add-killing dps to begin with. They won't even make a dent. The only mobs I can think of that accomplished having enough ae encounter content in DoV/Drunder/Sleepers/PoW are...a guild's first few kills on Berik/Tagrin (After that you're lucky if they have 50% uptime). Generals in Tallon's would've been good if you didn't have to tank them across the room from each other. The only mob I've seen in beta that it would be useful on is the Bouncer x2 encounter in Eidolon Jungle.

Mamba of Blades is still laughable at best. Especially since it's a mage group, someone is going to be dying a lot. On harder content, troubs won't be maintaining 25 stacks ever. If anyone dies once after trash in PoW, you can count on not having the buffs for the rest of the zone. Even if you could maintain 25 stacks, 100 haste and 2.5 doublecast is....meh.

This is probably the spec I'd use if it gets pushed to live like this. I wouldn't even spend the last 2 points because I'd rather be able to say I don't have a use for all my prestige points than spending 2 points in a <3-4k dps increase.

I must say you are 100% right here, tbh I am getting sad that I already paid for it, weak mobs and even weaker aa, why even bother anymore. 

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Old 11-08-2012, 07:46 PM   #14
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I'm getting increments of mamba of blades fine. Too bad it's still not worth 1 point, let alone 2.

Troub AAs are pretty terrible now. Entire left line's concept is terrible. Groupwide adrenaline? No thanks. Berserkers can keep that terrible spell, at least it's kind of useful for them for soloing (The dirge one is only good because of Infectious Dissonance, and Infected by the Sound is completely terrible in comparison). Reverberation's damage is OK, I guess, but the proc on it is laughable. I'd say troubs should go double conversion but the start of the left line has been terrible since it was created too.

Energetic Melody/Energetic Reverberation procs just don't work. There's not enough ae encounter content. You have to have 4 adds up over 75% of the encounter time for an ae encounter ability (generally set to be 1/3rd of the damage of an ST ability) for them to even come close to their ST counterparts, and these two abilities aren't going to do any major required add-killing dps to begin with. They won't even make a dent. The only mobs I can think of that accomplished having enough ae encounter content in DoV/Drunder/Sleepers/PoW are...a guild's first few kills on Berik/Tagrin (After that you're lucky if they have 50% uptime). Generals in Tallon's would've been good if you didn't have to tank them across the room from each other. The only mob I've seen in beta that it would be useful on is the Bouncer x2 encounter in Eidolon Jungle.

Mamba of Blades is still laughable at best. Especially since it's a mage group, someone is going to be dying a lot. On harder content, troubs won't be maintaining 25 stacks ever. If anyone dies once after trash in PoW, you can count on not having the buffs for the rest of the zone. Even if you could maintain 25 stacks, 100 haste and 2.5 doublecast is....meh.

This is probably the spec I'd use if it gets pushed to live like this. I wouldn't even spend the last 2 points because I'd rather be able to say I don't have a use for all my prestige points than spending 2 points in a <3-4k dps increase.

That's pretty much it.  It looked good to start, but now, there's really nothing worthwhile now.  

As others have said ... what's even the point?

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Old 11-09-2012, 07:34 PM   #15
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I lifted this from the updates for today

TroubadorBagpipe Solo now cures and heals the group.Infected by the Sound now increases the group's potency when they take damage while Bagpipe Solo is active.Mamba of Blades has a very small chance to trigger while attacking.Soul Resonation now also lowers the reuse of Cadence of Destruction.

This sounds promising and might actually give us reason to go down that side.

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Old 11-09-2012, 08:36 PM   #16
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So... the right line is still bad as everyone has said, especially Buffrat.

Left line... Bagpipe solo lasts for 16s, recast 1 min for me with jester. It now cures and heals the group... Yeah, my fury does that pretty well. Could be usefull if he dies or whatever, but I won't spend my prestige points for something I'll use twice per raid.

It grants 0.9 potency for the group during this time with infected by the sound, 24 increments... if anyone takes damage. Without a tank in the group, I don't see how we can reach these 24 increments in 16s.

Still don't get any increment of mamba of blades, weird, but that's still useless, so never mind.

Soul resonation now reduces cadence timer... That's nice, except most troubs use deadly dance.

There's still work to be done :/

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Old 11-10-2012, 09:33 AM   #17
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Andreia wrote:

So... the left line is still bad as everyone has said, especially Buffrat.

Right line... Bagpipe solo lasts for 16s, recast 1 min for me with jester. It now cures and heals the group... Yeah, my fury does that pretty well. Could be usefull if he dies or whatever, but I won't spend my prestige points for something I'll use twice per raid.

It grants 0.9 potency for the group during this time with infected by the sound, 24 increments... if anyone takes damage. Without a tank in the group, I don't see how we can reach these 24 increments in 16s.

Still don't get any increment of mamba of blades, weird, but that's still useless, so never mind.

Soul resonation now reduces cadence timer... That's nice, except most troubs use deadly dance.

There's still work to be done :/

Bagpipe is left side,

And yes most use Deadly dance, Still alot to be done here, 

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Old 11-10-2012, 12:00 PM   #18
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Corrected, sorry it was late :p

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Old 11-11-2012, 04:49 AM   #19
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Meh... toubies have been forgotten more then any other class in eq2 IMO - bard not being technically part of the trinity (tank/healer/dps), utility has been farmed out..  Troub is the lesser bard (since Autoattack dps).

Its no surprise to me we are left broken when things go live... less surprise it stays that way.

I just keep praying that one day SoE will take some time and do a pass, hopefully overpower us like they did for illy/corcercer when they did their (long overdue) revisit a while back.

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Old 11-11-2012, 09:08 AM   #20
nofish

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Gargamel wrote:

Meh... toubies have been forgotten more then any other class in eq2 IMO - bard not being technically part of the trinity (tank/healer/dps), utility has been farmed out..  Troub is the lesser bard (since Autoattack dps).

Its no surprise to me we are left broken when things go live... less surprise it stays that way.

I just keep praying that one day SoE will take some time and do a pass, hopefully overpower us like they did for illy/corcercer when they did their (long overdue) revisit a while back.

Yes we are a dying class , how many dirge's for every troub 8 of 10? 

Trying hard to get 2 mage's grp's in raid but with this silly AA's thats not a go, 

Can you please fix this SOE or dont you whant us in game anymore?

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Old 11-13-2012, 01:55 AM   #21
Shotneedle

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Troubs have been the superior bard since they nerfed dirge mythical.

And still are.

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:23 AM   #22
Andreia

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They nerfed dirge mythical (what could they nerf on ours anw :p) and boosted us, then put lots of encounters in raid, so yes we are in advantage compared with dirges, I don't deny that, ACT confirms. Don't know how it will be this expansion, I heard it's mainly mono target.

But that's not a reason for giving us that kind of prestige and throw it all away. Left line could be interesting if it wasn't that situational. And right line... 15 AA to gain procs/triggers that give us maybe 6k, really ? Fortunately as good supports we boost group potency.

And reducing cadence timer, again... I don't know where this idea comes from, obviously not from someone who has already played a troub in raids. Copy/paste dirge prestige doesn't seem to be the solution.

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:20 AM   #23
nofish

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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Troubs have been the superior bard since they nerfed dirge mythical.

And still are.

Yes I dont deny this, Still no reason for giving us this crappy AA is there? Are you sure we still be afther this expac btw?

Not talking about selfdps that much, yea we got a "smal" POT grp spell and thats the only thing I see, maby the reflect also,redusing cadence timer !!!, can they at least change that to Deadly Dance, 

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