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Old 07-05-2012, 08:30 PM   #1
Souse
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Pondering how alternative advancement points are able to allow new opportunities for your character to advance, I was realizing that the very concept of this type of advancement may be alternative in a very specific sense.What I mean is, for everyone to be at their maximum proficiency for a certain area, someone could specialize their ability with their Alternative Advancement points (AA) to make themselves proficient for the situation. However, the amount of AA you have doesn't just help with the situation, but the overall proficiency of your character in that situation per point; someone with 300 AA will be as strong as another person with 300 AA in a certain situation both have equally specialized in, but a person with any less AA will be weaker in comparison (sans gear, skill, and class), in that same situation. This is what disobeys the concept for me. Alternative advancement, in order to be generally alternative, must be able to respecialize your abilities, without relying on the amount of points you have. Someone with more AA should be able to offer more diversity to their ability, not an advantage over those with less AA.

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Old 07-05-2012, 11:53 PM   #2
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[email protected] wrote:

Alternative advancement, in order to be generally alternative, must be able to respecialize your abilities, without relying on the amount of points you have. Someone with more AA should be able to offer more diversity to their ability, not an advantage over those with less AA.

Too bad the game devs disagree with you.

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Old 07-06-2012, 07:18 AM   #3
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[email protected] wrote:

Pondering how alternative advancement points are able to allow new opportunities for your character to advance, I was realizing that the very concept of this type of advancement may be alternative in a very specific sense.What I mean is, for everyone to be at their maximum proficiency for a certain area, someone could specialize their ability with their Alternative Advancement points (AA) to make themselves proficient for the situation. However, the amount of AA you have doesn't just help with the situation, but the overall proficiency of your character in that situation per point; someone with 300 AA will be as strong as another person with 300 AA in a certain situation, but a person with anything less will be weaker in comparison (sans gear, skill, and class), in that same situation. This is what disobeys the concept for me. Alternative advancement, in order to be generally alternative, must be able to respecialize your abilities, without relying on the amount of points you have. Someone with more AA should be able to offer more diversity to their ability, not an advantage over those with less AA.

It's called Alternative Advancement, not Alternative Specialization, surely advancement involves getting better?

Why shouldn't more AAs give you an advantage? Gear, skill and level do, (and class, in different situations) why should AAs be different.

What kind of diversity do you suggest that would be desirable but not give any advantiges?

The way I read it, the "Alternative" doesn't mean it's an alternative to leveling up (it's a complement, not an alternative), it means it gives you several alternative ways to improve your stats, you can use your points to improve your attacks or your defence or a bit of both but not as much as if you specialize.

And it isn't true that characters with the same numbers of AAs, gear, class, skill and level will be as strong in a certain situation, that's the point of AAs, one might have specialized for that situation, another for a different situation, while a third generalized by spreading their AAs more widly (but thinner). The first would be stronger in that situation, the second in a different situation and the third would be strong (but not as strong) in both situations.

The AAs help you fine tune your class, so that instead of only 25 classes there are a near infinate number of "micro" classes and just as the "basic" class gets better as you level up the "micro" class gets better as you add more AAs.

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Old 07-06-2012, 10:18 AM   #4
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Hey, if this helps with the concept of AA, just do what I do: don't think of them as "Alternate Advancement" but as "Additional Advancement" points.

Yes, they do allow you to tweak your character into roles that it could do by default (like Wardens and Mystics flipping DPS spells into Combat Arts).  And just because there are alternatives doesn't mean that they're all equally valuable in all situations.  And ... just because they're not equally valuable doesn't mean you HAVE to min/max focus on a cookie-cutter "optimal" AA spec.  Figure out what makes sense for how you play, and unless you want to be on the absolute bleeding edge of content don't worry about perfect optimization of your character.

 

Edited to remove quote that got nerfed.  I can't even remember what the previous commenter had put up, but apparently it was a forum violation.

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Old 07-06-2012, 09:12 PM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

Pondering how alternative advancement points are able to allow new opportunities for your character to advance, I was realizing that the very concept of this type of advancement may be alternative in a very specific sense.What I mean is, for everyone to be at their maximum proficiency for a certain area, someone could specialize their ability with their Alternative Advancement points (AA) to make themselves proficient for the situation. However, the amount of AA you have doesn't just help with the situation, but the overall proficiency of your character in that situation per point; someone with 300 AA will be as strong as another person with 300 AA in a certain situation, but a person with anything less will be weaker in comparison (sans gear, skill, and class), in that same situation. This is what disobeys the concept for me. Alternative advancement, in order to be generally alternative, must be able to respecialize your abilities, without relying on the amount of points you have. Someone with more AA should be able to offer more diversity to their ability, not an advantage over those with less AA.

The problem is that you just don't get it.  Alternate Advancement is advancement that is not level advancement, thus an alternative method to advance.  It is not just an alternate spec mechanism like they have in every other game.

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Old 07-07-2012, 12:29 AM   #6
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hexalobular wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Pondering how alternative advancement points are able to allow new opportunities for your character to advance, I was realizing that the very concept of this type of advancement may be alternative in a very specific sense.What I mean is, for everyone to be at their maximum proficiency for a certain area, someone could specialize their ability with their Alternative Advancement points (AA) to make themselves proficient for the situation. However, the amount of AA you have doesn't just help with the situation, but the overall proficiency of your character in that situation per point; someone with 300 AA will be as strong as another person with 300 AA in a certain situation, but a person with anything less will be weaker in comparison (sans gear, skill, and class), in that same situation. This is what disobeys the concept for me. Alternative advancement, in order to be generally alternative, must be able to respecialize your abilities, without relying on the amount of points you have. Someone with more AA should be able to offer more diversity to their ability, not an advantage over those with less AA.

It's called Alternative Advancement, not Alternative Specialization, surely advancement involves getting better?

Why shouldn't more AAs give you an advantage? Gear, skill and level do, (and class, in different situations) why should AAs be different.

Alternative advancement can be included in your usual form of progression. Literally, it isn't specified on which kind of progression it offers, so it can be either assumed to be a part of its own system of progression, with AA points seperate from level, or along side the level system, or other systems of progression. In this case, it currently is the former. It can be seen any way, and having it be seperate than the gear and level system, to me, seems dissonant to a general form of advancement, rather than a specific one.

What kind of diversity do you suggest that would be desirable but not give any advantiges?

Take away potency of an ability's component, and add to another component to the same ability or different abilities. Have it be themed and such; I'm not too specific on my ideas.

The way I read it, the "Alternative" doesn't mean it's an alternative to leveling up (it's a complement, not an alternative), it means it gives you several alternative ways to improve your stats, you can use your points to improve your attacks or your defence or a bit of both but not as much as if you specialize.There are multiple ways to advance your character; numerous. It would seem viable to have it be alternative to what is already advancing. This isn't entirely specified by name itself, as mentioned earlier, and is entirely up to the game's current mechanics.

And it isn't true that characters with the same numbers of AAs, gear, class, skill and level will be as strong in a certain situation, that's the point of AAs, one might have specialized for that situation, another for a different situation, while a third generalized by spreading their AAs more widly (but thinner). The first would be stronger in that situation, the second in a different situation and the third would be strong (but not as strong) in both situations.

I meant those specialized for the same situation as well. I'll specify in an edit.

The AAs help you fine tune your class, so that instead of only 25 classes there are a near infinate number of "micro" classes and just as the "basic" class gets better as you level up the "micro" class gets better as you add more AAs.

They do indeed. Having it be based on diversity will also offer this option.

Overall, it isn't just about the system itself, but how it affects other systems in the game. Right now, it is very specific into what it alternatively advances; a system of its own that affects the other systems. If it were to apply to all systems of advancement, without a separate progression system of its own, it would have a more general definition on the current mechanics. That is the concern outlined in this thread.

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Old 07-09-2012, 11:43 AM   #7
Arielle Nightshade

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So what you are saying..sort of...is you'd like AA to level with you, like it does in WoW.   You just 'get' the AA points to specialize your advancements, you don't want to have to do anything different for them and you definitely don't want to grind.

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Old 07-10-2012, 12:50 AM   #8
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When the points system was first implemented in EQ2, it was actually a pretty cool concept. You only earned the AA exp by killing named, completing quests, discoveries, looting rare items, and other non-grinding tasks. It actually incentivized exploring and doing lots of different things, and was a great reason to mentor lower-level characters.

Eventually, though, SOE surrendered to power creep, added an exp slider and way too many more points, and just changed the whole system into the long, monotonous grind we have today. It's a real shame.

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