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Old 01-01-2012, 06:21 AM   #1
Enever

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Normally I don't post things like this. I doubt Anyone will even care, but when I spoke to a person today they gave some real good points towards how limiting the Free to Play is.

I brought it forward to get it off of my mind, and maybe, by some blessing of god SoE will take into consideration.

He's played the game for 2 hours, and got disgusted with the thigns He could not do. He could not wear what he quested for and lost all incentive to even loo kat EQ2 again.

My concern is that other Free to Play people wishing to try the game out are being chased away due to SoE severly limiting the Free to Play accounts.

The thign that he really was mad about was the inability to wear Legendary/Fabled gear. To me this is one Limitation that -must- go. Give the acounts access to these items so that the new players can give a taste for what the game has to offer.

The whole free-to-play concept in EQ2 is stupid and extremely limiting. For an example at what game does F2P best is Champions Online... they do it right.

Just please take into consideration, just atleast remove the gear limitations from Free to Play. it makes new players not want to play the game anymore.

Thanks...I needed to get that out of my mind, if this is the wrong forum for it please move it to a relevant one.

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Old 01-01-2012, 06:46 AM   #2
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The only time it really would annoy me is in DoV, where there is *no* treasured gear. At all. And you can't really do much in Velious with SF treasured stuff.

But eh. My other account's silver atm. She's making do with Mastercrafted.. till I move her off that account. ><

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Old 01-01-2012, 06:47 AM   #3
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If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?

The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.

As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.

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Old 01-01-2012, 07:41 AM   #4
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[email protected] wrote:

If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?

The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.

As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.

The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.

Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/

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Old 01-01-2012, 08:01 AM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

the bills need to be paid

Nothing more needs to be said.

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Old 01-01-2012, 08:17 AM   #6
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The problem is with people thinking 'F2P' stands for 'Free to Play', it doesn't, it stands for 'Fee to Pay'

The reason SOE is turning all it's games 'Fee to Pay' is because think it is 'Free to Play' end up paying more than those who paid a monthly rental

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Old 01-01-2012, 08:45 AM   #7
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Enever wrote:

Normally I don't post things like this. I doubt Anyone will even care, but when I spoke to a person today they gave some real good points towards how limiting the Free to Play is.

I brought it forward to get it off of my mind, and maybe, by some blessing of god SoE will take into consideration.

He's played the game for 2 hours, and got disgusted with the thigns He could not do. He could not wear what he quested for and lost all incentive to even loo kat EQ2 again.

My concern is that other Free to Play people wishing to try the game out are being chased away due to SoE severly limiting the Free to Play accounts.

The thign that he really was mad about was the inability to wear Legendary/Fabled gear. To me this is one Limitation that -must- go. Give the acounts access to these items so that the new players can give a taste for what the game has to offer.

The whole free-to-play concept in EQ2 is stupid and extremely limiting. For an example at what game does F2P best is Champions Online... they do it right.

Just please take into consideration, just atleast remove the gear limitations from Free to Play. it makes new players not want to play the game anymore.

Thanks...I needed to get that out of my mind, if this is the wrong forum for it please move it to a relevant one.

You can't be talking about a new player unless it was someone you were powerleveling and has got their hands on Legendary/Fabled already or they are a return player.  The limitations are very reasonable for a normal new player.  They are rough for a returning player, but there is little more that can be done that doesn't give the game away other than to provide free gold for a week or so every once in a while so former players with high end characters can have a trial every now and then.

As for Champions being superior, a game that sells substantive game affecting power tokens in their cash shop isn't doing free to play the right way.

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Old 01-01-2012, 09:29 AM   #8
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DrkVsr wrote:

The problem is with people thinking 'F2P' stands for 'Free to Play', it doesn't, it stands for 'Fee to Pay'

The reason SOE is turning all it's games 'Fee to Pay' is because think it is 'Free to Play' end up paying more than those who paid a monthly rental

Welcome to why no new games are coming out that have a subscription basis.

New games are being developed with microtransactions as a main or sole payment plan in mind. Either you pay out the nose to buy and unlock stuff or you lame yourself.

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Old 01-01-2012, 10:59 AM   #9
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Felshades wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?

The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.

As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.

The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.

Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/

They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.

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Old 01-01-2012, 12:21 PM   #10
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I'm taking the limitation as a challenge...

See how far you can progress with the gear available.

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Old 01-01-2012, 12:30 PM   #11
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How's that old saying go, Beggars can't be choosers?

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Old 01-01-2012, 01:31 PM   #12
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Katz wrote:

Felshades wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

If they remove the limitations, what reason would there be to get a subscription or buy the unlockers?

The math is simple: the bills need to be paid, and the game has to bring in enough money every month to cover those bills. If that doesn't happen, the game shuts down. So when you see free-to-play advertised, don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to avoid paying for the game.

As for the gear, I don't see where you need legendary/fabled gear short of top-end group instances and raiding. By the time you've gotten to that point, you're playing the game consistently enough that the monthly subscription makes sense.

The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.

Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/

They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.

I like LOTRO a lot.  Some of the items in the store I wish had similar counterparts in this store.  Been playing it since the first day it went F2P.  On the first day the server was hopping and it was a truly new server much like Freeport is.  Within a few months the population had dropped dramatically.   Now you see only a few kinships with the vast majority of the population disappearing after 30.

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Old 01-01-2012, 01:36 PM   #13
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The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.

Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.

What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.

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Old 01-01-2012, 01:41 PM   #14
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Katz wrote:

They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.

What is it that people think LOTRO does so well? I've played that one on and off from beta through it's F2P iteration (not much lately though since I've been too busy).

I have a grandfathered in account so it's not too bad for me other than not having access to a metric ton of quests I previously had access too. However, making a new character you have to rebuy everything  AND all the quests and crap. Certainly not any better than SOE's version IMO, just different. You can't even get a horse  there unless you buy riding from their market (last I played anyway). IMO the only thing Turbine did that is better is having ways to earn their points in game (albiet at an incredibly slow rate).

If EQ2s system added  per-character gold cap increasers, ability to purchase bank space and maybe some slow grindy way to earn some SC in game then I think they'd have a pretty good system actually. You really get a lot for nothing as it stands.

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Old 01-01-2012, 01:43 PM   #15
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Katz wrote:

Felshades wrote:

They should look at how Lotro does it.  They manage to make loads of money without limiting it so much people won't even give it a go.

ROFL, imagine playing Everquest II and not being able to quest past Frostfang Sea or the other starting areas.  And the bag space for a starting FtP player there is a joke.

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:08 PM   #16
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Maybe it's just me, but I've never seen an issue with the limits SoE has. You get all the content up to DoV, you get access to all gear up to mastercrafted (where you only need better at endgame), and it's possible to fully play and enjoy the game with the coin caps if you're going casual.

One of my accounts is silver and when playing new characters, as long as I'm not powering them through, have rarely had an issue with not being able to use gear that they have quested or looted, especially at the lower levels. If this limitation is the thing that made your friend not want to play, then perhaps this simply was not the game for him; it's a really minor limitation to be upset about when just starting out.

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:22 PM   #17
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well, back when I started, when the ice age reached nearly to crossroads, and wooly mammoths stalked the commonlands most of us never saw a legendary weapon till far later in the game.. save for rockbellys cutlass.

Going to sound "oh riiight gramma" here.. but we did nastier content.. lots and lots of linked heroics.. with the same "junk" most people  abandoned old world loots because of and would laugh at today.  Ah, Chickenbane..

rares were rare, spendy, and MC armor was a pipe dream.  Adept spells were the rule.. Expert and Fabled.. way out of price.

Limitations look rough but should be manageable far into the game.

Plat is easier to get, Treasured drops are far better, Rares are less rare, quest payouts are better.

Remember that fuel as a gold placeholder works well.

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Old 01-01-2012, 02:52 PM   #18
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Back in my day.. we crafted with dog spit!

And needed an alch just to do any crafting!!!!!

I have 1 gold and about 6 silver accounts... The limitions really arn't that bad considering I only have to sub for one account now..

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Old 01-01-2012, 03:11 PM   #19
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i ended up spending 20 times as much to play on line than buying games outright , and ended up being excluded from most of the content to boot

its all ego now .

how many stand alone game are there where you have to get out your credit card and pay extra for appearence armor 

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Old 01-01-2012, 03:18 PM   #20
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Only issue I really have a problem with is how the exp/aa slider is locked at 50%. It would be nice to have control over how much AA you can get.

Yeah yeah I know... if you want that option sub monthly however it would be nice to have an unlocker for that also...

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Old 01-01-2012, 04:42 PM   #21
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To the OP.  f2p is arguably the biggest misnomer ever created.  The entire point of it is to get you in the door and then for all intents and purposes force you to either get a subscription or pay for things alla carte.  It is NOT for people to enjoy all aspects of the game for free.  So you get a drop and can't wear it BUT you can spend a couple bucks to wear that tier of gear or you can sub up and wear most/all tiers of gear and not worry about it again.  It's not going to change anytime soon.

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Old 01-01-2012, 05:15 PM   #22
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gourdon wrote:

You can't be talking about a new player unless it was someone you were powerleveling and has got their hands on Legendary/Fabled already or they are a return player.

No, a lot of the solo quests now give legendary rewards. The chance is recent, it happened sometime in the last few months.

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Old 01-01-2012, 05:27 PM   #23
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Felshades wrote:

The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.

Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/

It's supposed to irritate you. But then, if you're at DoV, if you're truly a new player with no veteran bonus and few in-game contacts to start with and you're not playing 6+ hours a day every single day then you've probably needed a minimum of several months to get to to point of starting DoV. By that point if you're still playing you know you like the game and want to keep playing it regularly. I'd've long before this concluded it'll be cheaper and more convenient to swap piecemeal Marketplace purchases for the monthly subscription (especially considering the SC allowance that comes with it that'll make some future purchases essentially free).

Which I think is the whole point. F2P may be the current fad, but the subscription model is a nice, consistent, predictable revenue stream and SOE's loathe to give that up to cater to a fad. I treat F2P as a "free trial", a way for people to start the game and level up far enough to decide whether they want to keep playing regularly. Once you've decided you're going to stay and devote significant play-time to this game, it's time to ditch the trial for a regular subscription.

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Old 01-01-2012, 05:39 PM   #24
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Elomort wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

the bills need to be paid

Nothing more needs to be said.

The sub model was and is a sound business model to run a MMO. Recent events have proven that.

The suggestion that the F2P nicking & diming your playbase is the only way to pay the bills is not one based on fact.

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Old 01-01-2012, 05:46 PM   #25
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deadcrickets2 wrote:

The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.

Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.

What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.

Try it in melee range, with no pet, and no stuns.

My dirge couldn't do it in SF quested gear worth a crab. The mobs crit a LOT and have a load of HP. It's pretty brutal for any melee class that can't heal.

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Old 01-01-2012, 05:59 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

Felshades wrote:

The problem I see with DoV is people on silver and free accounts have to buy the expansion... but then on their first quest, they can't wear their quest rewards.

Buying unlockers constantly on top of the price of the expansion would kind of irritate me personally. :/

It's supposed to irritate you. But then, if you're at DoV, if you're truly a new player with no veteran bonus and few in-game contacts to start with and you're not playing 6+ hours a day every single day then you've probably needed a minimum of several months to get to to point of starting DoV. By that point if you're still playing you know you like the game and want to keep playing it regularly. I'd've long before this concluded it'll be cheaper and more convenient to swap piecemeal Marketplace purchases for the monthly subscription (especially considering the SC allowance that comes with it that'll make some future purchases essentially free).

Which I think is the whole point. F2P may be the current fad, but the subscription model is a nice, consistent, predictable revenue stream and SOE's loathe to give that up to cater to a fad. I treat F2P as a "free trial", a way for people to start the game and level up far enough to decide whether they want to keep playing regularly. Once you've decided you're going to stay and devote significant play-time to this game, it's time to ditch the trial for a regular subscription.

I'm speaking as someone with a second account and on a limited budget.

Personally, if I was just coming to the game, on my limited budget, with an abhorrent attitude towards paying to play online games(most of my RL friends will not play any subscription based game just on the principle that you buy the game then have to pay MORE to play it) I'd stop playing the instant I couldn't equip my quest rewards.

A good number of people that play f2p games are playing them BECAUSE they're free. Because they have an aversion to paying to play a game they already paid for.

The nickel and diming works for the more casual players that don't mind putting out a few bucks here or there. The people I know don't want to put out money EVER. They will(and have) quit (Got my bf to try coming back.. his main was naked and he couldn't use anything he had so said screw it and quit again) if they can't use stuff they get from simple quests. ESPECIALLY things like their epic weapon. Got mine for my inq last night. Can't equip it without buying unlockers. Nice huh?

Only thing I want to know, is how much it's going to cost me outside the transfer fee and the character slot to transfer this character to my gold account. Course, CS is gonna be slammed when they get back on Tuesday...

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Old 01-01-2012, 05:59 PM   #27
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DrkVsr wrote:

The problem is with people thinking 'F2P' stands for 'Free to Play', it doesn't, it stands for 'Fee to Pay'

The reason SOE is turning all it's games 'Fee to Pay' is because think it is 'Free to Play' end up paying more than those who paid a monthly rental

How many times are you going to post the same comment to different threads?

If you don't like the F2P model, then go gold.  (But I bet you already are.)

Same goes for any new player-- don't like the limitations, subscribe.  I really don't get this constant argument that they're "nickle and diming" everyone to death.  You only get "nickled and dimed" if you choose it.

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Old 01-01-2012, 06:13 PM   #28
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Felshades wrote:

deadcrickets2 wrote:

The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.

Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.

What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.

Try it in melee range, with no pet, and no stuns.

My dirge couldn't do it in SF quested gear worth a crab. The mobs crit a LOT and have a load of HP. It's pretty brutal for any melee class that can't heal.

Doing it right now with my leveling berserker.  No problem at all.

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Old 01-01-2012, 06:44 PM   #29
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You can have a perfectly enjoyable gaming experience by playing totally free up to around level 85. Treasured gear and adpets spells are just fine. The AA slider set to 50% does not negatively affect gameplay from 1-90.

At 85 you'll need to decide whether to keep playing for free and stay in SF, or buy DoV and start thinking about subscribing or buying unlockers.

At 90 all your XP gets dumped into AA even if you are a Free player. At this point, AA rolls up pretty fast. Even faster if you're doing quests.

You can have a great amount of fun for totally free, a small upgrade to Silver makes it a bit easier.

The problem isn't with the subscription model - its with the players.

NO PLAYER NEEDS FABLED GEAR AT LEVEL 20.

NO PLAYER NEEDS MASTERED SPELLS AT LEVEL 40.

You get enough coin from quests to pay your repair bill and buy fuel if you want to craft.

Classes are so over-powered now from 1-80 that gear and spells are pretty much irreleveant. They only make you go from killilng fast to killing really fast.

IMO - EQ2 F2P model is just about perfect.

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Old 01-01-2012, 06:53 PM   #30
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deadcrickets2 wrote:

Felshades wrote:

deadcrickets2 wrote:

The way the hybrid F2P system is done here is mostly OK though it needs some minor tweaking such as allowing gold cap unlockers.

Right now it's fully possibly to get all the way to 90 in treasured gear and adepts.  You don't need fancy gear unless you are planning to either raid or do DoV.  How should I know?  I've done it now a few times.  The old challenge of harder mobs is there if you have the treasured gear on.  Anything better begins to trivialize it.

What's more interesting is I took my level 87 coercer to DoV to finish out the last few levels.  Treasured gear, all adepts except for one expert (A3) spell.  Guess what?  I was killing the mobs fairly rapidly still.  That doesn't mean I would dare to take the coercer up against the dungeons or the heroics in the zones there.   That'd be crazy.

Try it in melee range, with no pet, and no stuns.

My dirge couldn't do it in SF quested gear worth a crab. The mobs crit a LOT and have a load of HP. It's pretty brutal for any melee class that can't heal.

Doing it right now with my leveling berserker.  No problem at all.

My zerker, my dirge and to an extent, my mystic had one HELL of a time levelling up there at 86.

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