EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > General EverQuest II Discussion > PVP Discussion
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-04-2012, 11:48 AM   #91
Corydonn

Loremaster
Corydonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 744
Default

Probably complained a bit too much there not taking in account the bonus flag damage buuuuut.  With stuns and stifles being WAY more active you can keep a brawler from getting the FD off pretty easily for the 3 seconds it takes to kill them as a mage~ Not to mention other tricks that can be used while not targeting anything.

Plus the detriments of FDing also detargeting the brawler for their teammates healers and the entire taunt not working with any other tank on the team using a taunt or passive taunt.

Corydonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 11:50 AM   #92
Twyxx

Guardian
Twyxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 244
Default

neefing wrote:

 i think melee dps classes should get ther own form of a taunt immunity to make it more possible to burn who you want. add taunt immunity temps to rogues and predators on a short duration and maybe a 2 minute resuse

For predator's you could add taunt immunity to Predator's Final Trick since it's currently useless in pvp as a cb spike.

__________________
Twyxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 11:52 AM   #93
convict

Loremaster
convict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 375
Default

neefing wrote:

it shouldnt take a rogue 10-15 clicks to kill a mage either when it only takes them 3 at the most... and they can cast them at range! also taunting is out of control for melee dps to deal with in group pvp or even raid pvp.. gurdian taunts are broken! they have 3 encounter taunts the can time and rotate to lock your whole group down.. its not bad if your a mage cuz mages can still do isnane damage on tanks where melees can barely even hit them let alone scratch them... the 10 seconds of taunt immunity implimented isnt enough for melees to spike anything down vs a solid group. i think melee dps classes should get ther own form of a taunt immunity to make it more possible to burn who you want. add taunt immunity temps to rogues and predators on a short duration and maybe a 2 minute resuse

LOL.. It's always about what will make it easier isnt it? Healers heals make it too hard to burn down who I want, same thing right?

__________________
convict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 02:24 PM   #94
Notsovilepriest
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Ill Gotten Gain
Rank: Raider

Loremaster
Notsovilepriest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,184
Default

Corydonn wrote:

Holding the flag with argueably one of the best mystics in the pvp game now. Full defensive temps up against a conjuror. They are able to burn through all three of my Tenacity triggers with EB and pet spells. I accounted for that and predicted it. Didn't predict the 25k fury of the elements + other pet spell damage . Thanks!

This was also with a t3 armor and two t2 pieces!

Report the bug of summoner pets not scaling ability mod downwards. That is what is causing that, I've done it already and posted about it on the forums. I'm guessing said conj has raid gear with tons of ability mod set bonuses.

__________________
Notsovilepriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #95
Delethen
Server: Mistmoore
Guild: Arch of Chaos
Rank: Muad'Dib

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 215
Default

neefing wrote:

also rogues need a slight boost? i think rogue combat art damage is pathetic compared to predators. i also see people talking up swashbucklers because ther able to maintain splash dps in a bg because of ther aoes resetting every few clicks... ther is no killing ability going on unless you manage to land all 8 of your dom triggers on the target you want within 10 seconds... try burning the person you want with a domchain with a good tank or multiple tanks on the other team... also dom isnt even enough to kill a good healer even if your not getting taunted you land the best possible chain of attacks with dom hitting all 8 triggers and still cant burn the GOOD healers. its also to easy to negate dom now since everyone has a 3 second detarget now and you only have 10 seconds to LAND 8 combat arts

This is all too sadly correct, the fact that you only have a 44% chance of crit means thats its not likely all your dom hits will crit anyway, and without it critting toward the end you've got no chance of doing anything.  The final dom hit is only like 15k anyway.

Not to mention its not like torporous strike has a noticeable impact either when everyone is running around at 100 casting speed or more.

edited because I wasn't paying attention and quoted the wrong post!

Delethen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 04:01 PM   #96
Dorsan
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Onyx
Rank: Member

Loremaster
Dorsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 971
Default

I don't see any issues with pets at all. My pet is doing 20-30% of my total DPS and that number is just right.
__________________
Dorsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 05:19 PM   #97
Loldawg
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Onyx
Rank: Recruits

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 253
Default

All I know is summoners are squishy as f***. No healer, no tank, we go down very fast. 

__________________
Loldawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 09:20 PM   #98
Proud_Silence

Loremaster
Proud_Silence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 342
Default

all non tanks are squishy when going toe to toe recklessly.

Must be the smart summoners i see standing at range and chosing their targets, necros seem to have decent selfheal capabilities, conjis stoneskinning my burst dps.

Might be too squishy compared to sorcerors, but they dont have a pet nuking people for 10k while hiding behind a tree. Wouldn't really complain if my warlock would die faster tho. Worse geared then my bruiser and assassin, but so much deadlier in pvp atm, i can't deny spell damage is out of hand.

rather see spell dmg fixed instead of survivability of clothies.

Proud_Silence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 09:45 PM   #99
Notsovilepriest
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Ill Gotten Gain
Rank: Raider

Loremaster
Notsovilepriest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,184
Default

Proud_Silence wrote:

all non tanks are squishy when going toe to toe recklessly.

Must be the smart summoners i see standing at range and chosing their targets, necros seem to have decent selfheal capabilities, conjis stoneskinning my burst dps.

Might be too squishy compared to sorcerors, but they dont have a pet nuking people for 10k while hiding behind a tree. Wouldn't really complain if my warlock would die faster tho. Worse geared then my bruiser and assassin, but so much deadlier in pvp atm, i can't deny spell damage is out of hand.

rather see spell dmg fixed instead of survivability of clothies.

10k is on a crit from a pet on a 12.5-22.5 second recast ability and the summoners themselves have 0 big hits that don't originate from the pet itself. They have soulburn which hits 10k (non crit) - ~23k (Crit), but it also drops the pet to 1 HP so anything can hit it and kill it at that point. Did you not look at the data I posted at all about summoner damage from pets and themselves?

__________________
Notsovilepriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 10:03 PM   #100
Proud_Silence

Loremaster
Proud_Silence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 342
Default

I did actually. Didn't really need to tho, cause i run ACT myself and have excessive data from many many pvp fights. I'll give you that, i said 10k to make a point, not cause it's the standard pet nuke. My point remains tho, pets don't follow you around like a player, if they could, they'd laugh at attempts of getting out of line of sight. And for how you can send a pet on someone and just instantly summon it back to you if it needs healing, it certainly does either too much dmg or doesn't die fast enough.

Always talking about summoners that know what they're doing of course. the average summoner is no threat, much less his pet. But when you're facing a decent player, or in case of current spell dmg, facing a decent geared player, that pet is going to be a powerful nuisance.

Proud_Silence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 11:00 PM   #101
Notsovilepriest
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Ill Gotten Gain
Rank: Raider

Loremaster
Notsovilepriest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,184
Default

Proud_Silence wrote:

I did actually. Didn't really need to tho, cause i run ACT myself and have excessive data from many many pvp fights. I'll give you that, i said 10k to make a point, not cause it's the standard pet nuke. My point remains tho, pets don't follow you around like a player, if they could, they'd laugh at attempts of getting out of line of sight. And for how you can send a pet on someone and just instantly summon it back to you if it needs healing, it certainly does either too much dmg or doesn't die fast enough.

Always talking about summoners that know what they're doing of course. the average summoner is no threat, much less his pet. But when you're facing a decent player, or in case of current spell dmg, facing a decent geared player, that pet is going to be a powerful nuisance.

you said it yourself, they are a nuisance they aren't a threat even in the current state of spell damage as you said...

__________________
Notsovilepriest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 11:18 PM   #102
Novusod

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,719
Default

Corydonn wrote:

Holding the flag with argueably one of the best mystics in the pvp game now. Full defensive temps up against a conjuror. They are able to burn through all three of my Tenacity triggers with EB and pet spells. I accounted for that and predicted it. Didn't predict the 25k fury of the elements + other pet spell damage . Thanks!

This was also with a t3 armor and two t2 pieces!

Considering you could have killed that conjy as fast he killed you I would say that is more than fair and ballanced. What defensive temps? Stonedeaf has 3 triggers and EB is 8 and if he gets lucky on procs you are going down as it should be. Corydonn should be one shotted at least once every match for the BGs to be ballanced.

__________________
Novusod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 12:22 AM   #103
Corydonn

Loremaster
Corydonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 744
Default

Novusod wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Holding the flag with argueably one of the best mystics in the pvp game now. Full defensive temps up against a conjuror. They are able to burn through all three of my Tenacity triggers with EB and pet spells. I accounted for that and predicted it. Didn't predict the 25k fury of the elements + other pet spell damage . Thanks!

This was also with a t3 armor and two t2 pieces!

Considering you could have killed that conjy as fast he killed you I would say that is more than fair and ballanced. What defensive temps? Stonedeaf has 3 triggers and EB is 8 and if he gets lucky on procs you are going down as it should be. Corydonn should be one shotted at least once every match for the BGs to be ballanced.

Considering it was all 3 triggers of tenacity and my mystic had 100% crit rate on wards. No, This should not of happened.

Corydonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 05:40 AM   #104
Dorsan
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Onyx
Rank: Member

Loremaster
Dorsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 971
Default

Mage dps is fine and needs no nerfs. Mage dps is still not enough to kill anyone if the enemy has decent heals. If you nerf it further games will only become more and more boring. Example of a borig game where no one ever dies:

__________________
Dorsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 08:10 AM   #105
Peak
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Slice of Life
Rank: Trinity

Loremaster
Peak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 501
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Mage dps is fine and needs no nerfs. Mage dps is still not enough to kill anyone if the enemy has decent heals. If you nerf it further games will only become more and more boring. Example of a borig game where no one ever dies:

That's a bad example, though.

You were against a team with wards - which honestly, a team without wards would have died.In addition, there is a Mystic. Nox ward, son.

Mages are stronger than they need to be. At least Sorcerors, for sure.I originally thought that once we got some PVP gear it would all sort itself out.. but then I remembered that mages were ridiculous on PVP Test too, and that was with full T3 PVP gear already.

Also, I don't know what team you're talking about. The team you were against died a few times each, and that was with the OP wards. Your team had very few deaths, but did you compare the damage output?

We've done tests with mage groups vs scout groups, with the mage group having a shaman. Done tests with the same group setup with the scout group having a Shaman. A good Shaman is night and day difference, and even when we won (with the Scout group having a Shaman), the damage of the scouts was not even close to half the damage the mages did.

Adjustments are needed. Maybe not necessarily for all Mages in general, but for some, yes.

__________________
Peak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #106
Dorsan
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Onyx
Rank: Member

Loremaster
Dorsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 971
Default

So you did a test where you moved the shaman from grp 1 to grp 2 and in both cases the shaman won and that gave you the conclusion that mages are op? Aslo, I don't know why people think single target DPS should put the same numbers as AoE DPS in grp vs grp fights. Mages do need to put out higher numbers than scouts in group vs group PvP. The only reason they didn't was that souts were overpowered for years. If a necro can do higher single target dps than an assassin then yes, adjustments are needed. But you can't take an aoe fight and say hey aoe classes are OP compared to single target DPS. If you nerf mages any more fights will never end again.
__________________
Dorsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 12:36 PM   #107
Daalilama
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Illuminati
Rank: Senior Officer

Loremaster
Daalilama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 437
Default

[email protected] wrote:

So you did a test where you moved the shaman from grp 1 to grp 2 and in both cases the shaman won and that gave you the conclusion that mages are op? Aslo, I don't know why people think single target DPS should put the same numbers as AoE DPS in grp vs grp fights. Mages do need to put out higher numbers than scouts in group vs group PvP. The only reason they didn't was that souts were overpowered for years. If a necro can do higher single target dps than an assassin then yes, adjustments are needed. But you can't take an aoe fight and say hey aoe classes are OP compared to single target DPS. If you nerf mages any more fights will never end again.

Dont worry if the vocal minority gets their way they will nerf healers so the potential nerf to mages will be a twofer

Daalilama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 04:59 PM   #108
neefing

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16
Default

dorsan you really havent tested the meleegroup v mage group in the open world have you? ive also tested the meleegroup vs magegroup. the melee group had swash brigand dirge zerker templar mystic while the mage group had warlock conj troub guardian templar defiler.. the result wasnt even close the mage group had the melee group dead within a few minutes while staying in green health the ENTIRE fight... the melee group was spikeing the whole tiem people were dieing getting rezzed and dieing again we were on the defensive the entire time just couldnt deal with the amount of dps they were putting out... the warlock parsed 20k by himself while thr conj did 15k and ther troub was over 7k dps.. the melee group which had arguably the best brig and swash combo the server could throw together along with a very solid dirge and zerker were barely in the double digits put together.. the swash did under 5k dps the brigand did under 3k dps the dirge barely broke 1k dps while the zerker was around 4k dps.. we couldnt even get through wards not to mention tanks just nullify melees way way too much. with that kind of dps difference between melee group to mage group how do you not see a problem with this? like dirges do NOTHING for a melee group anymore in pvp its pathetic that ur better off bringing a troub! also you say the mages parse higher because of aoes? what about swashbucklers? arent they one of the high aoe dpsing classes iin the game? i swash at the most can barely hit 7k dps in a perfect scenerio.. and thats 7k of nothing but splash dmg that cant even break wards...
neefing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2012, 08:09 PM   #109
spudsmckenzie2

Loremaster
spudsmckenzie2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 58
Default

Caster damage is broken broken broken.....please fix asap. as soon as i taunt, im dead. please fix tyty

__________________
spudsmckenzie2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 10:17 AM   #110
Peak
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Slice of Life
Rank: Trinity

Loremaster
Peak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 501
Default

[email protected] wrote:

So you did a test where you moved the shaman from grp 1 to grp 2 and in both cases the shaman won and that gave you the conclusion that mages are op? Aslo, I don't know why people think single target DPS should put the same numbers as AoE DPS in grp vs grp fights. Mages do need to put out higher numbers than scouts in group vs group PvP. The only reason they didn't was that souts were overpowered for years. If a necro can do higher single target dps than an assassin then yes, adjustments are needed. But you can't take an aoe fight and say hey aoe classes are OP compared to single target DPS. If you nerf mages any more fights will never end again.

I don't know why you're trying to argue that Mages aren't stronger than they should be.

Absolutely no melee class can get even CLOSE to ANY skilled mage. Period. End of story.

__________________
Peak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 12:45 PM   #111
Dorsan
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Onyx
Rank: Member

Loremaster
Dorsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 971
Default

I am not saying anything about mage vs melee, but mage vs shaman the mage is not broken, the shaman is. And if in any test you had a cleric+shaman heals vs mage dps and they couldn't outheal the mage dps then something is seriously wrong with those healers.
__________________
Dorsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 12:52 PM   #112
Peak
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Slice of Life
Rank: Trinity

Loremaster
Peak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 501
Default

[email protected] wrote:

I am not saying anything about mage vs melee, but mage vs shaman the mage is not broken, the shaman is. And if in any test you had a cleric+shaman heals vs mage dps and they couldn't outheal the mage dps then something is seriously wrong with those healers.

I think if Mages get nerfed too hard, Shamans will need the same treatment.

Shamans are basically the answer to burst damage, but alone they can't handle keeping a group alive against any half decent DPS. Needs the secondary healer, but a Shaman might be too strong if DPS is toned down.

Otherwise, I think they're okay. It all comes down to mechanics anyway. If you let me (as an assassin - or any DPS for that matter) stick on your healer long enough, I will kill him. But throw in a good tank? It becomes 1000x harder. That effects melee more than ranged DPS imo.

__________________
Peak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 01:17 PM   #113
Sasquatch

Lord
Sasquatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 62
Default

Auto attack is nerfed and scouts are not op anymore. Hurry nerf anything that we cant kill anymore.
Sasquatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 04:40 PM   #114
Rageincarnate
Server: Unrest
Guild: Vindication
Rank: Officer

Loremaster
Rageincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 396
Default

I have a few issues with mages atm. 

A stun lands, i'm dead before it expires.  Mages crowd control is way out of wack.  I had a warlock chase my ranger down last night across a gears map solo and kill me. I was never able to hit a button the entire time he killed me, except my deagro, fairly sure that was up. 

He didn't even bother to deagro.. as my auto didn't hurt him while i was stifled at least.

Yes i didn't have pots.. My fault.  But with pot reuse, and mages cc reuse..  It's not practical anyways and i'm not talking about chanters.

I'm assuming it's ranged auto?  the fact that mages are able to auto attack me while im up on ledge in gears from the ground?

I'm parsing mage abilities hitting greater then 50% of my chars hp.  Plaguebringer for 1.  Eb for 2.

Rageincarnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 05:23 PM   #115
Yimway

Loremaster
Yimway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,707
Default

[email protected] wrote:

I'm parsing mage abilities hitting greater then 50% of my chars hp.  Plaguebringer for 1.  Eb for 2.

EB is down right stupid DPS atm.

But when the prefered premade is 2-3 healers, 2 sorcs, 1 chanter,  it should just in general hint something is up on mage dps SMILEY

The premades that simply own in gears are the ones with no tanks or scouts, just some mages, atleast one warder, and some extra heals.  They are flat out unkillable before they kill you.

__________________
Yimway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 05:40 PM   #116
spudsmckenzie2

Loremaster
spudsmckenzie2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 58
Default

Also.......fighter and scout classes should be able to resist spells just like a warlock parries our attacks...(lol) has anyone seen a resist yet since the changes or is combat tracker wrong? This is your time to shine soe, you've given us a great pvp update now please polish the product to make it good for all of us and not leave us with a half baked product.

I would be happy if you could just get it in the ballpark  8(

                                                                                                                  -Weaklings the cooked Beserker

__________________
spudsmckenzie2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2012, 08:19 PM   #117
Twinbladed
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Illuminati
Rank: Raider

Loremaster
Twinbladed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 468
Default

Sasquatch wrote:

Auto attack is nerfed and scouts are not op anymore. Hurry nerf anything that we cant kill anymore.

Not all the mages need a fix, certain one's who can tank and kill everything in a split second that was put out on a fix that was design to balance the game play. Personally I could care less if it got fixed or not, but to say here you go do massive damage and be as hard to kill as a plate tank is a little over stretched. People wouldn't care as much if it wasn't a invincibilty issue. Buya had like 6 people beating on him and killed them all. Also I got on my 90 wizard with 232 aa's and destroyed people. Admit it or not, sorc's got both sides of the playing feild. It's not just scout who notice this, it's basically every class in the game.

Twinbladed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 03:20 PM   #118
Umeil

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23
Default

Well the proof is in the pudding (as the saying goes)

Over the last 2 weeks there has been a HUGE increase in the number of casters out in the BG's. To the point now that you hardly even see any other class.

Premades dont even bother with tanks anymore just 2-3 heals rest casters no need for anything else as you cannot out damage them before you get destroyed.  On the whole most casters are out of wack. The ability to absorb more damage than main line tanks can - they pretty much dont even worry about melee classes hitting them just 2 shot what you have targeted if nothing else around then dispatch the dumb melee who thinks swords should be doing damage to cloth (where would one get such a notion from)

Game is going to fall hard just like warhammer did

Umeil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 04:04 PM   #119
Rageincarnate
Server: Unrest
Guild: Vindication
Rank: Officer

Loremaster
Rageincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 396
Default

Umeil wrote:

Well the proof is in the pudding (as the saying goes)

Over the last 2 weeks there has been a HUGE increase in the number of casters out in the BG's. To the point now that you hardly even see any other class.

Premades dont even bother with tanks anymore just 2-3 heals rest casters no need for anything else as you cannot out damage them before you get destroyed.  On the whole most casters are out of wack. The ability to absorb more damage than main line tanks can - they pretty much dont even worry about melee classes hitting them just 2 shot what you have targeted if nothing else around then dispatch the dumb melee who thinks swords should be doing damage to cloth (where would one get such a notion from)

Game is going to fall hard just like warhammer did

They are listening man.  You just have to have alot of paitence.  I'm currently trying to figure out how to use that video recorder, so when i go up against mage groups i can show how fast i die.

Rageincarnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2012, 04:11 PM   #120
Shredderr

Loremaster
Shredderr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 182
Default

tbh scouts should be in leather and healers in chain.... scouts arent that easy to dps down and as a mage we are just used to getting 1 shotted basically. takes a long rotation to kill those who are supposedly sneaking around in shadows wearing chainmail lol right . with heal procs as poison that can crit . plz miss me with the scout natzii "we are supposed to always win" crap.

__________________
Revrand 92 monk Nagafen

Knowall 92 mystic Nagafen

Shredderr 92 wizard Nagafen

Shredderr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:04 PM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.