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Old 08-01-2012, 12:06 AM   #121
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The overlapping cast bars was an issue for users of some custom UIs (until Terrogaunt added the option to turn player bars off), but the fundamental problem is the cast bars getting cut off.

HM Skulldugger in Vallons is a mob we saw it on tonight, for example. When it comes on severe AEs in HM drunder and PoWar it's pretty much a game ender, given that those AEs must be pre-cured.

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Old 08-01-2012, 11:19 AM   #122
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Have to actually figure out the problem first.

The disappearing casting bar (NPC's when the NPC was my target) happened during our raid on Unrest in Betrayal of the Underdepths last night [07.31.12] on at least Belkreiz Blazeclaw, Ikatiar, Sevalor Gorescale (though I had Putrator targeted), and Malteor Flamecaller.

Note:  There are times when the casting bar does not disappear and there are times when the extreme opposite effect happens - it never appears [on AEs when it used to - prior to this "change"].

I was using the default UI.

Terrogaunt - what information do you need for us to data gather for you so we can assist in getting this solved as quickly as possible?

As people have indicated - this is can be a pretty deadly "feature" as some of these AEs can be fail conditions waiting to happen if not cured properly.

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Old 08-01-2012, 11:31 AM   #123
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Terrogaunt wrote:

I'm looking into the issue. I got it to happen to me on the aviak boss in tallon raid, but it seems to be pretty tempermental. If it's related to scripted spell casting, I'll see if there's anything that we can do about it, like adding a second casting bar for NPCs in case they ever overlap and cancel each other. - All speculative though. Have to actually figure out the problem first.

While i can respect your desire to correctly fix this problem.  My hats off to you for that and your continued communication with the players.  MUCH CUDOS!  

I am wondering why you dont just roll back that cast bar update?? Push it back to test where you can beat it up in peace and quiet then try to roll it out later.  Its way to buggy and tempermental in its current state to even be on live.  How did it get past test server in this state? 

But again thank you terrogaunt for your dedication and updates to the forums, it is refreshing to see.

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Old 08-01-2012, 12:01 PM   #124
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Thank you for the "fix" that was put in at least.  It's great that we can pick and choose which casting bar/s we want to see, though the disappearing and/or non-existant casting bars for some NPC's does cause issues with curing.  It was happening for our raid last nigh in Betrayal of the Underdepths.  As others have posted, I didn't notice it on trash but it was very obvious on names.  It's not "as important" in Underdepths as it is in HM Drunder or PoW, but it's still nice to be able to practice pre-curing in other raid zones.  Hopefully you will get this problem fixed soon.  SMILEY

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Old 08-01-2012, 12:12 PM   #125
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Pretty much play a healer on any relevant raid and you should be immediately aware of the cast bar issue.

Any relevant healer on any relevant raid is using a third party casting bar that currently overlays two casting bars because it used to be that only one of them would be functional at a time. If you follow the directions earlier in the thread to mod your Custom.TargetCasting into two windows, you won't have the problem.

To Terrogaunt: what the players are asking for is a single UI interface piece that shows only the enemy's casting bar, regardless of whether the enemy is the Target or Implied Target, and they want you to maintain it for them.

Nope, happes on default UI as well.

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Old 08-01-2012, 12:55 PM   #126
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Pretty much play a healer on any relevant raid and you should be immediately aware of the cast bar issue.

Any relevant healer on any relevant raid is using a third party casting bar that currently overlays two casting bars because it used to be that only one of them would be functional at a time. If you follow the directions earlier in the thread to mod your Custom.TargetCasting into two windows, you won't have the problem.

To Terrogaunt: what the players are asking for is a single UI interface piece that shows only the enemy's casting bar, regardless of whether the enemy is the Target or Implied Target, and they want you to maintain it for them.

There has been an update for Profit so the bars are each separate and not overlapping.  The problem is that the NPC casting bar not finishing before it disappears.  SMILEY

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Old 08-01-2012, 01:51 PM   #127
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The new option defaults to the known bad setting.  Show all is not a good choice for anyone.  It probably should default to show hostile player cast bars.  I assume that will be functionally equivalent to no player cast bars.

I actually was doing okay timing my cures off seeing the ae start to cast, on easy fights, but it is a critical issue.  And I confirmed that the cast bar was sometimes showing, sometimes not showing, and sometimes disappearing early for no apparent reason when I target myself and cast spells (with the option to show all).

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Old 08-01-2012, 02:38 PM   #128
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The issue of the casting bar randomly vanishing durring cast in no way has anything to do with certian Names, Monsters, or Zones in particular... even by targeting your self and casting something with a long cast time "IE: Call to Guild Hall" you will see the Casting bar starts for a "random" length of time then vanishes... I've been trying to modify a target window for the last 2 days and have knowticed this happening every time since i been using my GH Call and Call Home abilities to see the placement of my cast bar... as far as i know this has nothing to do with any UI issues as well its a SOE end problem with the dynamic data flow... somewhere along the line the casting the information is droping and the bar just cancles the progression... this has been a bug since before they even introduced the toggle with the patch yesterday...

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Old 08-01-2012, 03:42 PM   #129
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I've tried the targetting yourself thing and I can't get that to happen at all. I was on Live in Freeport just casting 'Call to Home' over and over and never failed to get a bar from beginning to end.

What generally is happening with this issue is that the mob that you're looking at is casting a long spell (an AOE, if you will), and then casts one of its innate abilities that has an instant cast time. In doing so, the single casting channel that exists on the mob is being overwritten with the new spell and making the old one disappear since only one spell is sent down to your dynamic data. The issue is nothing new and wasn't introduced with any new changes, it just drew more attention to it. So reverting out changes will not help, since this casting channel did not get changed.

I am looking into making it so spells that are more important will take priority when deciding which spells to show though, so hopefully this will address that issue on almost all occurances where it could happen.

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Old 08-01-2012, 03:50 PM   #130
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Terrogaunt wrote:

I've tried the targetting yourself thing and I can't get that to happen at all. I was on Live in Freeport just casting 'Call to Home' over and over and never failed to get a bar from beginning to end.

What generally is happening with this issue is that the mob that you're looking at is casting a long spell (an AOE, if you will), and then casts one of its innate abilities that has an instant cast time. In doing so, the single casting channel that exists on the mob is being overwritten with the new spell and making the old one disappear since only one spell is sent down to your dynamic data. The issue is nothing new and wasn't introduced with any new changes, it just drew more attention to it. So reverting out changes will not help, since this casting channel did not get changed.

I am looking into making it so spells that are more important will take priority when deciding which spells to show though, so hopefully this will address that issue on almost all occurances where it could happen.

It is definitly new having stared at casting bars for years raiding including current content ...etc, this was not happening pre this game update, the mob starts to cast and the bar drops off, what ever is causing this, is new. Instant spells dont have a cast time how are they interfearing with a cast bar sounds like they may have been written into the existing cast bar and that is the problem since you can not cast 2 abilities at the same time.

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Old 08-01-2012, 03:58 PM   #131
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Terrogaunt wrote:

What generally is happening with this issue is that the mob that you're looking at is casting a long spell (an AOE, if you will), and then casts one of its innate abilities that has an instant cast time. In doing so, the single casting channel that exists on the mob is being overwritten with the new spell and making the old one disappear since only one spell is sent down to your dynamic data. The issue is nothing new and wasn't introduced with any new changes, it just drew more attention to it. So reverting out changes will not help, since this casting channel did not get changed.

I disagree, this is new.  If an ae hit without a casting bar in the past, it was EXTREMELY rare.  Now it will happen multiple times per fight on many different mobs in the same zone.  Where previously we maybe observed this on one ae cast over an entire month of raiding.

You very clearly broke something, and if you actually played your game, you might understand that.

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Old 08-01-2012, 04:05 PM   #132
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You guys always manage to break something.....Just amazing, does this teach you not to touch stuff that was never broken? I really really hope so. Tell me this, how do we know that some of the AoE's being casted by mobs ( important AoEs that NEED to be precured/deathprevented) are not some of their innates?.. Since Devs dont raid and dont have a clue regarding each individual mob, how are you guys going to set priority?... I feel you guys are going to mess this up again... Unless you mean you will be changing how it works period and not tweaking every single encounter. Terror, it will not help... I saw the casting bar drop when I was targeting myself and casting heal spells... ( dont know if call to home would work). I wasn't casting any other spells, nor was I proccing anything else. I'm telling you that putting a bandaid on it will not help. I told you earlier that it was interrupted while NOT casting anything else but 1 spell and that it dropped at RANDOM times... How can you conclude that it is caused by innates?. I promise you, if you launch the fix you proposed, it will still be broken...........
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:16 PM   #133
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Whats hilarious is that nobody listens.... They will try 50 new fixes until they just revert the changes, regardless if anything castbarish was touched or not. I'm going to say this again sir... When I was targeting MYSELF and casting SPELLS randomly, some of them were INTERRUPTED as well.. Just like the mobs did. I was NOT casting any sort of INNATES... Just because you cannot replicate it, doesn't mean its not there. Honestly, just by someone telling you what i just told you, that should be enough to look somewhere ELSE. Trust me, I want this thing fixed ASAP... I wouldn't give you bad info. Just revert the changes, trust the playerbase, we'll make your boss happy and you can tell him/her that you guys figured it out all by yourselves.
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:21 PM   #134
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Terrogaunt wrote:

I've tried the targetting yourself thing and I can't get that to happen at all. I was on Live in Freeport just casting 'Call to Home' over and over and never failed to get a bar from beginning to end.

What generally is happening with this issue is that the mob that you're looking at is casting a long spell (an AOE, if you will), and then casts one of its innate abilities that has an instant cast time. In doing so, the single casting channel that exists on the mob is being overwritten with the new spell and making the old one disappear since only one spell is sent down to your dynamic data. The issue is nothing new and wasn't introduced with any new changes, it just drew more attention to it. So reverting out changes will not help, since this casting channel did not get changed.

I am looking into making it so spells that are more important will take priority when deciding which spells to show though, so hopefully this will address that issue on almost all occurances where it could happen.

You should go in to Betrayal in the Underdepths and test it out on the names in there.  The bar was dropping quite often last night, and was especially noticable on Ikatiar with the noxious that casts (I can't remember the name of it), or on Malteor Flamecaller with Call of Flames and Infernal Tempest.  Before the game update, things (such as those I just listed) would show from beginning to end on the casting bar.  The only time the bar would disappear was if it was something that was interruptable by a player and a player interrupted it.  The problems that are happening now, along with the need for the casting bar "fix" that was just implemented, are most definitely a result of something "new" that was introduced with the recent Game Update.

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Old 08-01-2012, 04:55 PM   #135
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Guys, I can understand your frustrations but if you want Devs to actually communicate with you regularly then it's best not to point fingers and (maybe I'm reading the posts wrong), be kinda rude. Telling him to go play the game is not going to motivate him to help you. He's trying to sort it, he's actively communicating what he's doing. If you don't agree with his findings, at least be polite about it and be constructive.
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:56 PM   #136
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Terrogaunt wrote:

I've tried the targetting yourself thing and I can't get that to happen at all. I was on Live in Freeport just casting 'Call to Home' over and over and never failed to get a bar from beginning to end.

What generally is happening with this issue is that the mob that you're looking at is casting a long spell (an AOE, if you will), and then casts one of its innate abilities that has an instant cast time. In doing so, the single casting channel that exists on the mob is being overwritten with the new spell and making the old one disappear since only one spell is sent down to your dynamic data. The issue is nothing new and wasn't introduced with any new changes, it just drew more attention to it. So reverting out changes will not help, since this casting channel did not get changed.

I am looking into making it so spells that are more important will take priority when deciding which spells to show though, so hopefully this will address that issue on almost all occurances where it could happen.

As others have said, this def is a new issue. This issue started with the new casting bar changes. I've raided 4 nights a week for the past 2 years as a healer. I'm pretty sure I'd recognize if I had been previously unable to see a targets casting bar finish it's casting before now. Through my personal testing of it, I thought that mobs were only doing it when their target cast something non instant. That's when it mostly seemed to be occurring in raids/groups. What I've started doing is relying on ACT even more and using spell timers to keep track of things to cure since I can no longer depend on the casting bars.

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Old 08-01-2012, 05:05 PM   #137
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Terror, we are all obviously upset... This shouldn't have made it past test. Just remember, I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the innates of the mobs. Even if you cannot replicate targeting yourself and casting, it does not mean its not there. This tells me right away that it has nothing to do with the innates and that it is something else entirely as it was also having effect on player casting. Trust us when we say that it is NOT the innates, if you go along with this change, this will still happen, all you would do is fix the "bug" that has been present for a very long time and like Atan said, happened once a month. If my own spells were dropping from the cast bar that means something is wrong with how spells are read period. When you go about your fixing, please take in account that it has happened to player casting as well, without the player doing anything else but cast that one spell. (it would drop randomly, sometimes midcast, sometimes right when u cast, sometimes 90% through) Please check this out and do it the right way. This cannot wait till next tuesday, there should be no reason that it even has to wait till next tuesday. Roll back the changes you guys made regardless if you think it will help or not and patch it ASAP ( as in TONIGHT). You might not think it is serious but, on mobs where I need to time death prevent or i NEED to precure a nasty stun...I cannot do my job at all. It is not something small and trust me, alot of players IN game are upset about this. The Enraged WarBoar dropped his Nox cast RANDOMLY... I think throughout the fight he only cast it through the whole way ONCE. I don't understand what you guys did but, please.. fix it right this time.. We waited a week for you guys to add a toggle ( thank you btw...should have been put in first day) and now we are going to wait weeks and weeks hoping that every tuesday will be the day that this stuff gets fixed. Sorry, I don't even feel like playing my inquis at this point if i cannot do my job efficiently.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:28 PM   #138
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Terrogaunt wrote:

I've tried the targetting yourself thing and I can't get that to happen at all. I was on Live in Freeport just casting 'Call to Home' over and over and never failed to get a bar from beginning to end.

What generally is happening with this issue is that the mob that you're looking at is casting a long spell (an AOE, if you will), and then casts one of its innate abilities that has an instant cast time. In doing so, the single casting channel that exists on the mob is being overwritten with the new spell and making the old one disappear since only one spell is sent down to your dynamic data. The issue is nothing new and wasn't introduced with any new changes, it just drew more attention to it. So reverting out changes will not help, since this casting channel did not get changed.

I am looking into making it so spells that are more important will take priority when deciding which spells to show though, so hopefully this will address that issue on almost all occurances where it could happen.

What you're describing is something that has actually existed for a long while now.  Mobs overwriting cast bars from "double casting" scripted abilities.  While it would be great if that gets fixed, the primary problem is something new that didn't start happening until player castbars were introduced.

The cast bar here is starting and within a second it will just disappear.  It doesn't happen on all fights and it isn't that the mob is "double casting".  I mainly notice it on HM fights.  I can also reproduce it solo just on my inquisitor by targeting myself and casting spells in my house.  Someone should just produce a video of the problem to show you it's not a custom UI thing and it has nothing to do with scripted mobs double casting abilities.

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Old 08-01-2012, 05:41 PM   #139
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Ok here is how you can reproduce it.  Get a cleric and then spec both steadfast and the duration increase to steadfast.  Now every time steadfast "refreshes", the cast bar will be interrupted for you when you target yourself.  So I imagine any instant ability that refreshes itself will cause this.  I also can reproduce it on a defiler by casting Defile and then every "pulse" of defile I watch my cast bar disappear.  So possibly it is the raidwide debuffs on raid mobs may be refreshing every x seconds and causing cast bars for them to disappear since they "recast" the debuff.

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Old 08-01-2012, 05:42 PM   #140
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Kreton wrote:

Ok here is how you can reproduce it.  Get a cleric and then spec both steadfast and the duration increase to steadfast.  Now every time steadfast "refreshes", the cast bar will be interrupted for you when you target yourself.  So I imagine any instant ability that refreshes itself will cause this.  I also can reproduce it on a defiler by casting Defile and then every "pulse" of defile I watch my cast bar disappear.  So possibly it is the raidwide debuffs on raid mobs may be refreshing every x seconds and causing cast bars for them to disappear since they "recast" the debuff.

Cha-Ching.

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Old 08-01-2012, 06:09 PM   #141
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Kreton wrote:

Ok here is how you can reproduce it.  Get a cleric and then spec both steadfast and the duration increase to steadfast.  Now every time steadfast "refreshes", the cast bar will be interrupted for you when you target yourself.  So I imagine any instant ability that refreshes itself will cause this.  I also can reproduce it on a defiler by casting Defile and then every "pulse" of defile I watch my cast bar disappear.  So possibly it is the raidwide debuffs on raid mobs may be refreshing every x seconds and causing cast bars for them to disappear since they "recast" the debuff.

If this is the case, my fix coming up should cover it since it will prevent any spells with .5 seconds or lower show priority to not override.

I also noticed another line of code that might have been causing it. I'm playing around with it on a local server now to see if any AOE bars poof on me after changing it. I'll keep you guys posted and try and get something in by the next patch.

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Old 08-01-2012, 06:54 PM   #142
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Regolas wrote:

Guys, I can understand your frustrations but if you want Devs to actually communicate with you regularly then it's best not to point fingers and (maybe I'm reading the posts wrong), be kinda rude. Telling him to go play the game is not going to motivate him to help you. He's trying to sort it, he's actively communicating what he's doing. If you don't agree with his findings, at least be polite about it and be constructive.

That doesn't change that if they actually played their own game they'd catch these issues before live, and if they snuck thru to live they'd understand them more readily.

I remember when we had devs that were avid players, and the result was much better than what we have today.

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:06 PM   #143
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Kreton wrote:

Ok here is how you can reproduce it.  Get a cleric and then spec both steadfast and the duration increase to steadfast.  Now every time steadfast "refreshes", the cast bar will be interrupted for you when you target yourself.  So I imagine any instant ability that refreshes itself will cause this.  I also can reproduce it on a defiler by casting Defile and then every "pulse" of defile I watch my cast bar disappear.  So possibly it is the raidwide debuffs on raid mobs may be refreshing every x seconds and causing cast bars for them to disappear since they "recast" the debuff.

If this is the case, my fix coming up should cover it since it will prevent any spells with .5 seconds or lower show priority to not override.

I also noticed another line of code that might have been causing it. I'm playing around with it on a local server now to see if any AOE bars poof on me after changing it. I'll keep you guys posted and try and get something in by the next patch.

That sounds like it could do the trick. Any abilities that have to be watched are at least 1s cast time, so as long as the "junk" type abilities don't override longer real abilities it make solve it.

Also, the issue happened in the past and then was fixed at some point (I can't remember the exact dates for it) and then broke again in the GU.

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:13 PM   #144
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Okay guys. I think I got it. I'm fighting Klaatuus right now and I get Tactical Fog, Leeching Cloud, and Powertap to show their full bars and none of the instant casts to interrupt the long bars and they persist until the very end. It looks good.

Go ahead and give me the full name of some more bosses you'd like me to test this on before throwing it in to QA. SMILEY

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:15 PM   #145
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Dellmon wrote:

Terrogaunt wrote:

Have to actually figure out the problem first.

The disappearing casting bar (NPC's when the NPC was my target) happened during our raid on Unrest in Betrayal of the Underdepths last night [07.31.12] on at least Belkreiz Blazeclaw, Ikatiar, Sevalor Gorescale (though I had Putrator targeted), and Malteor Flamecaller.

Think that is the data you are looking for...

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:35 PM   #146
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Atan, Your opinion may hold weight, as they often do, but it doesn't mean you should criticise in this particular thread. Here you have a dev actively communicating and trying to solve the problem, and he's getting stick for something that you don't even know is true. He may play the game, although maybe not to your (raid) level. It wasn't just your post that I thought came across ungrateful and flaming, there were others too. I'd be there complaining too if there was no dev response at all, but I think Terrorguant has been great on this thread and deserves some respect and constructive assistance, not insults. I can imagine just how complicated the coding for this game is. Yes it should have been picked up on test, but it's going to be a tiny piece of code in a giant wall of it. Anyway, I'll shut up now!
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:42 PM   #147
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Okay guys. I think I got it. I'm fighting Klaatuus right now and I get Tactical Fog, Leeching Cloud, and Powertap to show their full bars and none of the instant casts to interrupt the long bars and they persist until the very end. It looks good.

Go ahead and give me the full name of some more bosses you'd like me to test this on before throwing it in to QA.

How about a Plane of War name like Glokus Windhelm.

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Old 08-02-2012, 12:13 PM   #148
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Raided yesterday in Underdepths EM.

First three bosses and the one before last (didn't pull anything else that night) have their spellcasts disappear around half of their spells. I'm guessing this is an allround-problem and not related to any specific mobs.

So a good week or something after this "implementation" raiding is still screwed up, escpecially if you're a healer.

But hey, we got player's spells shown in BLUE now. BLUE!!! Now isn't that something.

We don't need fixes of broken mechanics, no no, we need more colour in the game!!

Thanks alot for the blue spell bars, maybe after you coloured a few other things you can go work on the mechanics please?

Thanks

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Old 08-02-2012, 12:37 PM   #149
Yimway

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Regolas wrote:

Here you have a dev actively communicating and trying to solve the problem, and he's getting stick for something that you don't even know is true. He may play the game, although maybe not to your (raid) level.

Thing is, if you raid at all, or do much of any of the heroic content you immediately see this problem.  There are alot of heroic encounters that have abilities that are designed to be interputed or reacted to, and they also were having cast bars reset.

You don't have to 'play at my level' or even raid at all to immediatly recognize the problem and to understand it was introduced with the latest changes.

I've seen so many instances of things like this that if they played their own game they'd immediately understand, this thread is just one more example on a large pile of examples of similar issues.  And it has turned into a 'hot button' issue from my viewpoint, so I'll continue to point it out when there are glaring examples.

We used to have devs who were avid players who could explain the behavior to others when things came up like this.  We used to have community members that were avid players that could assist in explaining / demonstrating these issues.  Now problems come to live and we as players have to compile spreadsheets for them to demonstrate what is wrong cause simple explanations aren't enough detail for them.

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Old 08-02-2012, 06:29 PM   #150
jjlo69

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Terrogaunt wrote:

Okay guys. I think I got it. I'm fighting Klaatuus right now and I get Tactical Fog, Leeching Cloud, and Powertap to show their full bars and none of the instant casts to interrupt the long bars and they persist until the very end. It looks good.

Go ahead and give me the full name of some more bosses you'd like me to test this on before throwing it in to QA.

the enraged warboar in POW cast bars we not working tuesday night when we killed it.. so id check those named as well  

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