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Old 07-12-2012, 11:38 AM   #61
Rijacki

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Hateeternal wrote:

feldon30 wrote:

Let's say I created an Alchemist and leveled him from 1-90. I didn't care in the slightest that I was choosing a Dirge or other adventure class. I created him as a pure crafter. Now, here we are 3 years later and I'd like to change the adventure class of that crafting-only character and make him into another adventure class.Currently, my option is to DELETE the character and remake it with the correct adventure class, and then grind 90 levels of tradeskills again.

Like many pointed out before, you can also keep your crafter and just make a new adventurer. Do the crafting on your crafter and the adventuring on you adventurer. As a nice side effect this will give you another few weeks (or months, depending on your style) of pure fun, cause the smaller levels are a complete different game, imo, than endgame.

If you don't have anymore slots you can still buy one (another reason why they most likely won't implement the change in question, if you ask me...).

And if you raid and get a chance to get the stone/quest to obtain the raid TS apprentice, how would you suggest that crafter/adventurer on 2 characters be able to obtain it? You can't do the quest to turn the stone into an apprentice summoner unless you're a 90+ crafter. You can't enter the raid zone unless you're a level 92 adventurer and the quest-giver is in the zone.

feldon30 wrote:

Personally, I would make it so you are reset to level 10 with 40 AAs or however many AA points you have, whichever is lower. You'd keep your location discoveries, and all quests that are tradeskill-specific would be kept. All non-tradeskill and non-location achievements would be reset. People are asking for a way to change adventure class just like they can change tradeskill class now, even if it requires some pain. Sure some people are asking for the moon but most people are willing to take losing some achievements, some AAs, and their levels.

This would be the fairest way and likely the easiest. But, there would need to be several warning messages before the switch would occur or there would be crying on the forums about 'accidentally' resetting a max adventure level / max AA character and expecting it to still be maxed.

The 'reset adventure class' was and should be only intended for a character with a high tradeskill level and low adventure level.

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Old 07-12-2012, 11:53 AM   #62
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I personally wouldn't care about how much exp or AA I was left with after a reset.

The only thing I would not like to lose is the potential to finish any quest and get any achievement with a character (whether quest/achievement completions are carried over from before the reset, or I have to complete it again after the reset is irrelevant).  I wouldn't even mind if all quests stayed complete and I had to grind my way back up without questing as long as it was possible to reset the class. 

It's more about making it an option than about making it a pleasant option.

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Old 07-12-2012, 02:48 PM   #63
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A simple solution would be to add a button to the character select screen under Delete character.

Similar to Delete you would type in the name of character for safety.

Then run the character creation script but without asking for a name.

Finally replace your old character with a new level 1 version and set the trade skill class and level to that of your old character, possibly copy transmuting and adorning and tinkering.

You would lose all your gear, faction, aa points and quests completed.

Tradeskill epic, mount, prayer shawl etc would be lost, but perhaps these 3 items could be tested for and copied across.

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Old 07-13-2012, 11:35 AM   #64
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The_Cheeseman wrote:

People like to claim that whatever barrier stands in the way of what they want in an MMO is artificial and unnecessary, and should therefore be abolished. Players are always asking to make advancement easier and more convenient, because we're conditioned to find the most efficient path to our goals (and finding those paths of least resistance is the essence of system mastery, AKA player skill). But what they don't understand is that the very things they are asking for will make the game less enjoyable.

How in the name of all that is holy is asking for an Adventure Class Reset asking for the game to be "easier and more convenient" or the "most efficient path to our goals"?

Please tell me how requiring someone to re-grind 90 levels of tradeskill class (and 450 skillups of transmuting, 450 skillups of adorning, and 450 skillups of tinkering) because they want to change their adventure class would make the game "more enjoyable".

The_Cheeseman wrote:

To put it simply: being a max-out character isn't inherently fun. The fun part is advancing your character to the maximum

That is your opinion. But it is not the opinion of people who are actively grouping and raiding level 90-92 content. From the launch of EverQuest 2 until about Kunark, level 1-70 was a GROUP experience. Starting with Kunark, numerous nerfs to overland zones, gear revamps, and the enforced SOLO QUEST GRIND of Kunark, level 1-80 became a solo tutorial which ill-prepares the player for grouping later on.

For many players, level 1-90 is no longer an enjoyable experience. It is a task that must be done before grouping, raiding, and progressing through EQ2 content can BEGIN. Blame the design decisions to invalidate 1-89 content, not the players. I have been warning the EQ2 team that we were heading down this road. Group XP penalty should have been removed. Heritage Quests should have been boosted. Names in older dungeons should have been given amazing loot and increased in difficulty so people would want to go back and do them for XP and loot. Instead, 1-89 is a solo quest grind which does not appeal to everyone.

The_Cheeseman wrote:

As I previously mentioned, I completely disagree that tradeskill levels and adventure levels are equivalent. People should be more thoughtful when creating a character, in the first place.

And you have completely failed to explain WHY tradeskill levels and adventure levels are not equivalent.

Ok, take out the ability to reset your AA points. You should have been more thoughtful when you picked your AA points the first time.

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Old 07-13-2012, 12:07 PM   #65
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 can I please PLEASE get a class change to Shadowknight?

*Please do not cross post issues*

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Old 07-13-2012, 04:56 PM   #66
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feldon30 wrote:

The_Cheeseman wrote:

People like to claim that whatever barrier stands in the way of what they want in an MMO is artificial and unnecessary, and should therefore be abolished. Players are always asking to make advancement easier and more convenient, because we're conditioned to find the most efficient path to our goals (and finding those paths of least resistance is the essence of system mastery, AKA player skill). But what they don't understand is that the very things they are asking for will make the game less enjoyable.

How in the name of all that is holy is asking for an Adventure Class Reset asking for the game to be "easier and more convenient" or the "most efficient path to our goals"? What else would you call it? You want to be a different adventure class, but you don't want to spend the time to make a new alt and re-level your tradeskill class. Therefore, you are looking for a faster, more convenient route to your goal.

Please tell me how requiring someone to re-grind 90 levels of tradeskill class (and 450 skillups of transmuting, 450 skillups of adorning, and 450 skillups of tinkering) because they want to change their adventure class would make the game "more enjoyable". Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. Why can't you just make a new character if you want to play a different class? That's what everybody else does. Your old tradeskiller will still be there. If you don't enjoy leveling tradeskill classes, then don't do it.

The_Cheeseman wrote:

To put it simply: being a max-out character isn't inherently fun. The fun part is advancing your character to the maximum

That is your opinion. But it is not the opinion of people who are actively grouping and raiding level 90-92 content. From the launch of EverQuest 2 until about Kunark, level 1-70 was a GROUP experience. Starting with Kunark, numerous nerfs to overland zones, gear revamps, and the enforced SOLO QUEST GRIND of Kunark, level 1-80 became a solo tutorial which ill-prepares the player for grouping later on.

For many players, level 1-90 is no longer an enjoyable experience. It is a task that must be done before grouping, raiding, and progressing through EQ2 content can BEGIN. Blame the design decisions to invalidate 1-89 content, not the players. I have been warning the EQ2 team that we were heading down this road. Group XP penalty should have been removed. Heritage Quests should have been boosted. Names in older dungeons should have been given amazing loot and increased in difficulty so people would want to go back and do them for XP and loot. Instead, 1-89 is a solo quest grind which does not appeal to everyone.

These two paragraphs are just a rehash of the old, "The game starts at max level" argument. The same exact argument that has been used to justify starting new characters at max level (which is essentially what people are asking for in this thread--starting a new character with a previously-leveled tradeskill class at max level). I don't wish to rehash that tired old debate, but to put it simply: leveling a character is part of the game, it gives you something to do and builds investment in your character. Just because you don't personally feel it's important, doesn't mean it actually isn't important. The endgame consists of about 10 zones right now. Do you really want to reduce the entire game down to that?

The_Cheeseman wrote:

As I previously mentioned, I completely disagree that tradeskill levels and adventure levels are equivalent. People should be more thoughtful when creating a character, in the first place.

And you have completely failed to explain WHY tradeskill levels and adventure levels are not equivalent. Adventure class defines the character's fundamental identity in the game world. It determines the character's spell/combat art/skill selection, its play style, its group role, and how other characters interact with it. It determines what items it can use, what quests are available to it, the reward from those quests, and how various abilities/scripts affect the character. I really can't believe that you don't understand the difference in magnitude, here. I mean, the only difference between the various tradeskill classes is skill caps and the effectiveness of 6 abilities. Other than that, it's just a list of recipes.

Ok, take out the ability to reset your AA points. You should have been more thoughtful when you picked your AA points the first time. You know full well that this is an invalid comparison. The AA system was designed from the outset to be a post-character-creation advancement system that was built to employ opportunity costs.

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Old 07-14-2012, 10:17 AM   #67
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Wingrider01 wrote:

Pervis wrote:

I don't get why people would be arguing against this as an option for people that want it, nor do I see why it would be hard to implement.

A simple quest that 'rewards' players by dropping their adventure level down to level 9, allows them to pick from any one of the 25 classes in the game (hey, if they want to level up the same class again, why should I stop them?). From here, the only possible issue that anyone could ever even concieve to consider may one day have the potential to turn in to something that may be close to resembling an issue (ie, it is still far from an issue in itself), is the number of AA's the character will have.

The solution to this is breathtakingly simple: apply the AA restrictions that are (or at least used to be) on PvP servers.

don't do any professional programming do you? Have to take into account every possible senario that could come up to the best of the ability. It is not as simple as saying "oh ok - we will just reset the level to 10 and leave everything else the same", as previously mentioned - factions, spells, aa, abilities, resets, chooseable character abilities, and other variables need to be taken into account. Trade skill was easy, adventurer level is a lot more complex with interrelational variables that need to be taken into account.

Professional programming, no.

What I do have, however, is an understanding of basic mechanics.

Factions, spells, AA's, abilties, resets, character traits, all of these have systems in place already to take care of them. Am adventure reset would obviously result in a total reset of any number of these, just as betraying does. If you look at what needs to be altered for any given character to change class, the actual mechanics for it are already in game in some form or another.

I guess you could say that if there is a single thing I know about programming, it's that programming is easy if the actual programming is already done, and had years of testing in an appropriate environment.

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Old 07-14-2012, 11:28 AM   #68
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Pervis wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Pervis wrote:

...

...

...I guess you could say that if there is a single thing I know about programming, it's that programming is easy if the actual programming is already done, and had years of testing in an appropriate environment.

Hello, you must be new here. I welcome you to Everquest 2, a game powered by SOE.

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Old 07-14-2012, 12:39 PM   #69
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Some have opposed this by saying you can level tradeskilling and adventuring to maximum in a matter of hours.   

If that is the case, then why make a big deal out of being able to relevel as a different adventure class?  According to you it is trivial anyhow.

Some say that people are lazy for not wanting to just delete the character and relevel both adventuring and tradeskilling.  

1) Leveling tradeskill is tedious.  The quests are fun but you can't achieve maximum level by quests only.  Writs are fast, efficient, and mindnumbingly boring.   Plus pushing three buttons over and over causes repetitive motion damage.

2) you might have items on that toon you don't want to lose.  Items purchased from marketplace, for example.   

Would I use this feature if it is introduced?   I don't know.  If it had been added at the time beastlords were added I would have changed my (at the time) 90 sage, 20 something templar to a beastlord and actually started adventuring with her.   I don't like playing templar....I will never level her up as a templar.   I might betray her to Inquisitor but I'd rather not as I've found I don't like playing reactive healers.   If I could change her adventure class to one I actually enjoy, I would level her in adventuring.  Since I can't change her adventure class and will only level 1 of each type of tradeskller one time only, then she will continue as now, standing by the tradeskill bench waiting to craft when I log on her and doing only quests that are holiday or world event type that give tokens or items that I want.

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Old 07-14-2012, 01:20 PM   #70
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Hateeternal wrote:

Hello, you must be new here. I welcome you to Everquest 2, a game powered by SOE.

 

A year or 2 ago they had a live bug where you could change to inquistor.  Their code actually worked quite well and lots of people switched (and were consequently rolled back to their original class).

I figured they were close to releasing it on test, but that never came about.

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Old 07-14-2012, 04:16 PM   #71
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The_Cheeseman wrote:

feldon30 wrote:

The_Cheeseman wrote:

People like to claim that whatever barrier stands in the way of what they want in an MMO is artificial and unnecessary, and should therefore be abolished. Players are always asking to make advancement easier and more convenient, because we're conditioned to find the most efficient path to our goals (and finding those paths of least resistance is the essence of system mastery, AKA player skill). But what they don't understand is that the very things they are asking for will make the game less enjoyable.

How in the name of all that is holy is asking for an Adventure Class Reset asking for the game to be "easier and more convenient" or the "most efficient path to our goals"? What else would you call it? You want to be a different adventure class, but you don't want to spend the time to make a new alt and re-level your tradeskill class. Therefore, you are looking for a faster, more convenient route to your goal.

Please tell me how requiring someone to re-grind 90 levels of tradeskill class (and 450 skillups of transmuting, 450 skillups of adorning, and 450 skillups of tinkering) because they want to change their adventure class would make the game "more enjoyable". Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. Why can't you just make a new character if you want to play a different class? That's what everybody else does. Your old tradeskiller will still be there. If you don't enjoy leveling tradeskill classes, then don't do it.

The_Cheeseman wrote:

To put it simply: being a max-out character isn't inherently fun. The fun part is advancing your character to the maximum

That is your opinion. But it is not the opinion of people who are actively grouping and raiding level 90-92 content. From the launch of EverQuest 2 until about Kunark, level 1-70 was a GROUP experience. Starting with Kunark, numerous nerfs to overland zones, gear revamps, and the enforced SOLO QUEST GRIND of Kunark, level 1-80 became a solo tutorial which ill-prepares the player for grouping later on.

For many players, level 1-90 is no longer an enjoyable experience. It is a task that must be done before grouping, raiding, and progressing through EQ2 content can BEGIN. Blame the design decisions to invalidate 1-89 content, not the players. I have been warning the EQ2 team that we were heading down this road. Group XP penalty should have been removed. Heritage Quests should have been boosted. Names in older dungeons should have been given amazing loot and increased in difficulty so people would want to go back and do them for XP and loot. Instead, 1-89 is a solo quest grind which does not appeal to everyone.

These two paragraphs are just a rehash of the old, "The game starts at max level" argument. The same exact argument that has been used to justify starting new characters at max level (which is essentially what people are asking for in this thread--starting a new character with a previously-leveled tradeskill class at max level). I don't wish to rehash that tired old debate, but to put it simply: leveling a character is part of the game, it gives you something to do and builds investment in your character. Just because you don't personally feel it's important, doesn't mean it actually isn't important. The endgame consists of about 10 zones right now. Do you really want to reduce the entire game down to that?

The_Cheeseman wrote:

As I previously mentioned, I completely disagree that tradeskill levels and adventure levels are equivalent. People should be more thoughtful when creating a character, in the first place.

And you have completely failed to explain WHY tradeskill levels and adventure levels are not equivalent. Adventure class defines the character's fundamental identity in the game world. It determines the character's spell/combat art/skill selection, its play style, its group role, and how other characters interact with it. It determines what items it can use, what quests are available to it, the reward from those quests, and how various abilities/scripts affect the character. I really can't believe that you don't understand the difference in magnitude, here. I mean, the only difference between the various tradeskill classes is skill caps and the effectiveness of 6 abilities. Other than that, it's just a list of recipes.

Ok, take out the ability to reset your AA points. You should have been more thoughtful when you picked your AA points the first time. You know full well that this is an invalid comparison. The AA system was designed from the outset to be a post-character-creation advancement system that was built to employ opportunity costs.

My responses inline in red text.

What I find more amazing about all your posts are that you are enforcing how you think the game should be played on others.   While your solution fits your style and your role why should the others be forced to do as you say?  Conversely the same holds true others should not be forcing their style of game play on you.   So now the only question is why do you care if someone is allowed to reset their adventure class?  There is already a reset of a tradeskill class why shouldn't there be a reset adventure class?  I can think of several reasons from a player perspective why this would be good idea.

  • Limited slots for toons
  • Limited real money resources to purchase additional slots
  • More freedom to play the game as they would want to

From a SOE perspective I can see why they wouldn't want this to happen

  • They would rather you purchase slots, which makes sense they are a business and they are there to make money
  • Possible explotation that would have to be controled
  • Coding and support issues

So again why do you really care, odds on favorite you realy don't you just want to argue.

I have givent thought that it would be nice to be able to reset a couple of lowbie toons that I have with my max level all advanced books.  But if I don't get it I just won't play those adventure toons by the same token I won't buy more slots either. So what is really the best option here I think it comes in two flavors a free quest reset for a complete hard reset and a Station Cash option.   The in game reset would have to have a two step validation process in my opinion to make sure SoE wouldn't be flooded by "ohh I didn't mean to do that"  in the form of a quest and a freebie station cash item.  You would have to purchase the freebie station cash item before or sometime during the quest to turn in to do a hard reset of your adventure class.  This would basically wipe you down to level 1 no AA, no faction no nada but retain your tradeskill level and books this would require the player to address any issues with factions or other wise that would be tied to their adventure class.  The other is a station cash option say 1500 station cash it basically allows you to pick a new class based on your current alignment IE if you are a templar you wouldn't be able to change to a brusier since that is a class and an alignment change.   If you did want to move from a templar to a brusier you would have to betray to an inquisitor THEN change your class. 

So in both cases the player has to take on an active role on how they want to change.

Since all these changes are currently in game 

  • resetting your tradeskill
  • changing your race
  • changing your gender
  • chaning your name

all that is really left from a service perspective is the ability to change your adventure class.

So again my question why do you care about people changning their adventure class.

/bow

Disclamier:  I do not check my spelling if this offends you I am sorry I tend to write my comments as a stream of thought much like a person having a converstaion.

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Old 07-14-2012, 04:39 PM   #72
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Since all these changes are currently in game

  • resetting your tradeskill - simple change, only have to deal with one or two relationships in the database
  • changing your race - again, maybe 3 tables entries, little interrational links to other tables
  • changing your gender - single field change F to a M or M to a F
  • chaning your name - simple rename in the database, affects nothing else

Changing a class is a lot more invovled then any of the thingd you mention, stop and review your character to see exactly what would have to be changed.  Why aer you assuming it would be free? Of the ones that you mentioned only the reseting of the trade skill does not cost real world funds

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Old 07-14-2012, 09:27 PM   #73
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Wingrider01 wrote:

Since all these changes are currently in game

  • resetting your tradeskill - simple change, only have to deal with one or two relationships in the database
  • changing your race - again, maybe 3 tables entries, little interrational links to other tables
  • changing your gender - single field change F to a M or M to a F
  • chaning your name - simple rename in the database, affects nothing else

Changing a class is a lot more invovled then any of the thingd you mention, stop and review your character to see exactly what would have to be changed.  Why aer you assuming it would be free? Of the ones that you mentioned only the reseting of the trade skill does not cost real world funds

My point was there were already services in the game and now the players are requesting another service from SoE.  I have no direct knowledge of how hard it might be for SoE to stand up since I haven't seen the source code much less the database backend for the game.  But I would hazard a guess that yes it might be hard but since there are already services that would simular code reuse would allow the service to be at least looked at.  I still think the hardest part will be the policy on how exactly SoE wanted to setup and use this service.  I can see it being more of a support nightmare from the metric ton of people would try to abuse just because they can.

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Old 07-15-2012, 08:58 AM   #74
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[email protected] wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Since all these changes are currently in game

  • resetting your tradeskill - simple change, only have to deal with one or two relationships in the database
  • changing your race - again, maybe 3 tables entries, little interrational links to other tables
  • changing your gender - single field change F to a M or M to a F
  • chaning your name - simple rename in the database, affects nothing else

Changing a class is a lot more invovled then any of the thingd you mention, stop and review your character to see exactly what would have to be changed.  Why aer you assuming it would be free? Of the ones that you mentioned only the reseting of the trade skill does not cost real world funds

My point was there were already services in the game and now the players are requesting another service from SoE.  I have no direct knowledge of how hard it might be for SoE to stand up since I haven't seen the source code much less the database backend for the game.  But I would hazard a guess that yes it might be hard but since there are already services that would simular code reuse would allow the service to be at least looked at.  I still think the hardest part will be the policy on how exactly SoE wanted to setup and use this service.  I can see it being more of a support nightmare from the metric ton of people would try to abuse just because they can.

Interesting, not even that other game offers a class respec, they offer everything else for a price but not a class respec... they have the other services also.

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Old 07-15-2012, 11:18 AM   #75
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Hateeternal wrote:

Pervis wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Pervis wrote:

...

...

...I guess you could say that if there is a single thing I know about programming, it's that programming is easy if the actual programming is already done, and had years of testing in an appropriate environment.

Hello, you must be new here. I welcome you to Everquest 2, a game powered by SOE.

 

While I fully understand what you're saying, and don't disagree with you at all, I have a counter-point.

SoE make a habbit of hiring fairly competant people to the positions that actually work on the game. Their coders, artests and designers are all actually fairly top notch (and in high demand with other game developers). The area where SoE fails is in empowering these talented people to put said talent to work.

This is obviously a management problem, specifically to do with the various producers at SoE (a producers job is best defined as someone that creates the conditions for others to be able to do their best work).

EQ2 has teh coders to be able to do what players are asking for here. The only thing stopping them from doing so, and doing so very well, is the fact that the producer has not provided them with the conditions to do it.

If enough people want it, it will happen. SoE said Beastlords will only ever happen if every other class is perfectly balanced (yet they are in game, and we are still working on fighter balance that should have happened 4 years ago, then agains 2 years ago). They also said a race respec would be impossible, because a characters race is referenced to far too many times in teh games database for it to be safe to make changes.

Somehow, both of these are in game. Beastlords were added because they realized they were planning an expansion that had nothing the vast majority of people would pay for, and they knew the nostalga of Beastlords would see people happy to pay $50. Race changes were because they saw so many people asking for them, and realized they could make a quick buck if they sold them as a service.

If it can be proven that an adventure class reset service would make more money for SoE than anything else the coders needed could do in that time would make, they would be directed to do it immediately.

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Old 07-15-2012, 11:42 AM   #76
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Wingrider01 wrote:

Changing a class is a lot more invovled then any of the thingd you mention, stop and review your character to see exactly what would have to be changed.

As a Wizard, I can change to a Warlock.

What would you assume (since assume is all you can do) would need to change, database wise, if I were to change instead to an illusionist instead? The answer, obviously, is next to nothing.

Changing to a different archtype is slightly more involved, but only slightly.

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Old 07-15-2012, 12:42 PM   #77
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Pervis wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Changing a class is a lot more invovled then any of the thingd you mention, stop and review your character to see exactly what would have to be changed.

As a Wizard, I can change to a Warlock.

What would you assume (since assume is all you can do) would need to change, database wise, if I were to change instead to an illusionist instead? The answer, obviously, is next to nothing.

Changing to a different archtype is slightly more involved, but only slightly.

You assume it's easy from a position of total ignorance? I have a feeling that if it were that easy to implement, they would be selling class resets already.

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Old 07-15-2012, 03:14 PM   #78
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Pervis wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Changing a class is a lot more invovled then any of the thingd you mention, stop and review your character to see exactly what would have to be changed.

As a Wizard, I can change to a Warlock.

What would you assume (since assume is all you can do) would need to change, database wise, if I were to change instead to an illusionist instead? The answer, obviously, is next to nothing.

Changing to a different archtype is slightly more involved, but only slightly.

hey of that is all you want to be able to change between the same archtype then you have your wish, it is already in - called betrayal.

To change between different archtypes is just a smidgen more difficult contrary to what you believe, if you want it to work this way, and you change to a healing class with all your skills still set for a dps caster plwease let us know so you are not the main / only healer in the group

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Old 07-15-2012, 07:56 PM   #79
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I would love to see the ability to have my tradeskillers be able to change their adventure class; I have two that need this.  They’re maxed out 92 tradeskillers with their race and tradeskill aligned yet their adventure class is no longer viable due to changes SOE made.  For example, the gnome made a great priest class and alchemist so that’s what he was initially created as.  Then SOE got it into their mind that gnomes would be better as mage class and here I’m stuck with him being a lousy priest class.  The other seven of my tradeskiller are aligned by race, adventure class and tradeskill class.  Yah, many say race doesn’t matter then why is there such a diversification of player races and stats for each?

As for deleting the AAs when switching adventure class, I’m definitely not for this.  I can’t count the endless hours and years of repeated tradeskilling quests that gave me the AAs I have earned.  I’m very slowly bringing up my adventurer class on toons and having those AAs (especially the tradeskill ones) are great and when I get (if ever) to 92, then those hours collecting those earned AAs well then be there for me.  It’s not like I’m magically getting those AAs without any effort, unlike adventurers who now power level through their class and AAs.

I’d say if you’re going to force nuking the AAs for changing an adventurer class for tradeskillers, then do this for all such changes and be fair.   This means if you change your tradeskill, your lvl 92/320 adventurer must lose all there AAs.  And if you betray, which in a way is an adventurer class change, then there too the toon must lose all there AAs.  Note that right now those betraying don’t lose their AAs, level (both adventurer and tradeskill), quests, like spells stay the same and they get to keep items of their old class such as the mythical weapon.   So a Fury changing to Warden is not an adventurer class change?

And speaking of quests, these can’t be deleted or reset either.  Some of my toons have quests I’m proud to have done when the game came out or special one-time events that are no longer available today.  What about those tradeskill writ quests I’ve grinded through to get to 92?  If I lose those quests will I be forced to give up those tradeskill items associated with them?  Do you remember when Freeport had about 150 quests and I’m not including writs associated with the city?  That’s now I’d say down to 30-40 if lucky.  For those that enjoy questing, and thus the exploration of Norrath, these are like a badge of honor.  I can hear those end-game players saying, “yah, whatever!”

Okay, so why not reroll my race and spend the months / years of repetitive quests to get back to 92 tradeskiller with almost all the items (and quests) that I had before.  That can be done, and I’ve done it with one of my toons.  But the two remaining toons have items that are one time account specific claims that I cannot transfer to my other toons and I want to keep these items!  I joined the game as an artisan and not an adventurer (as we originally had to choose from) but I do get away from the crafting tables once in a while and explorer Norrath via quests.  I really don't want my toon to be penalized to such extremes if I decide to change my adventurer class for proper alignment to race and tradeskill class.

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Old 07-16-2012, 05:17 AM   #80
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I would love to see the ability to have my tradeskillers be able to change their adventure class; I have two that need this.  They’re maxed out 92 tradeskillers with their race and tradeskill aligned yet their adventure class is no longer viable due to changes SOE made.  For example, the gnome made a great priest class and alchemist so that’s what he was initially created as.  Then SOE got it into their mind that gnomes would be better as mage class and here I’m stuck with him being a lousy priest class.  The other seven of my tradeskiller are aligned by race, adventure class and tradeskill class.  Yah, many say race doesn’t matter then why is there such a diversification of player races and stats for each?

As for deleting the AAs when switching adventure class, I’m definitely not for this.  I can’t count the endless hours and years of repeated tradeskilling quests that gave me the AAs I have earned.  I’m very slowly bringing up my adventurer class on toons and having those AAs (especially the tradeskill ones) are great and when I get (if ever) to 92, then those hours collecting those earned AAs well then be there for me.  It’s not like I’m magically getting those AAs without any effort, unlike adventurers who now power level through their class and AAs.

I’d say if you’re going to force nuking the AAs for changing an adventurer class for tradeskillers, then do this for all such changes and be fair.   This means if you change your tradeskill, your lvl 92/320 adventurer must lose all there AAs.  And if you betray, which in a way is an adventurer class change, then there too the toon must lose all there AAs.  Note that right now those betraying don’t lose their AAs, level (both adventurer and tradeskill), quests, like spells stay the same and they get to keep items of their old class such as the mythical weapon.   So a Fury changing to Warden is not an adventurer class change?

And speaking of quests, these can’t be deleted or reset either.  Some of my toons have quests I’m proud to have done when the game came out or special one-time events that are no longer available today.  What about those tradeskill writ quests I’ve grinded through to get to 92?  If I lose those quests will I be forced to give up those tradeskill items associated with them?  Do you remember when Freeport had about 150 quests and I’m not including writs associated with the city?  That’s now I’d say down to 30-40 if lucky.  For those that enjoy questing, and thus the exploration of Norrath, these are like a badge of honor.  I can hear those end-game players saying, “yah, whatever!”

Okay, so why not reroll my race and spend the months / years of repetitive quests to get back to 92 tradeskiller with almost all the items (and quests) that I had before.  That can be done, and I’ve done it with one of my toons.  But the two remaining toons have items that are one time account specific claims that I cannot transfer to my other toons and I want to keep these items!  I joined the game as an artisan and not an adventurer (as we originally had to choose from) but I do get away from the crafting tables once in a while and explorer Norrath via quests.  I really don't want my toon to be penalized to such extremes if I decide to change my adventurer class for proper alignment to race and tradeskill class.

You don't seem to understand this game very well. If I have an adventurer, lvl 92, 320 AA and I want to reset my TS class that's fine. The AA's are gained by adventuring, not TSing. A reset of TS will never affect my adventurer because TS is simply just a job. I don't get stupid just because I change my job from from one thing to another, it doesn't affect who I am at all. Just because you gained some AA by TS-ing that doesn't mean you're right, it means you are o person who chose to do that in a very slow and inefficient way. 

On the other side of the coin, if you want to reset your adventure class, that affects who you are. You are used to your class and have no idea how to function in a new one so you have to re-learn everything you know. in that context a full reset - level and AA -  makes sense.

Your reasoning is neither here nor there and I hope you can now start to see why. The game is based on adventuring, that's how you get levels and AA - questing, soloing, grouping , going out in the world and doing things. TS is park your char near a table, hit 6 buttons over and over and that's it. If you choose to do some TS quests and need to get out, you will be doing it by effectively running away from mobs trying to stay alive while you get from point A to point B.

If you enjoy TS, thats fair enough, but the game itself does not evolve around that. They could take out TS today and it wouldn't make a big difference for adventurers, we can still play the game. Take out adventuring and there's not much left. Get it ?

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Old 07-18-2012, 11:40 PM   #81
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DamselInDistress wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I would love to see the ability to have my tradeskillers be able to change their adventure class; I have two that need this.  They’re maxed out 92 tradeskillers with their race and tradeskill aligned yet their adventure class is no longer viable due to changes SOE made.  For example, the gnome made a great priest class and alchemist so that’s what he was initially created as.  Then SOE got it into their mind that gnomes would be better as mage class and here I’m stuck with him being a lousy priest class.  The other seven of my tradeskiller are aligned by race, adventure class and tradeskill class.  Yah, many say race doesn’t matter then why is there such a diversification of player races and stats for each?

As for deleting the AAs when switching adventure class, I’m definitely not for this.  I can’t count the endless hours and years of repeated tradeskilling quests that gave me the AAs I have earned.  I’m very slowly bringing up my adventurer class on toons and having those AAs (especially the tradeskill ones) are great and when I get (if ever) to 92, then those hours collecting those earned AAs well then be there for me.  It’s not like I’m magically getting those AAs without any effort, unlike adventurers who now power level through their class and AAs.

I’d say if you’re going to force nuking the AAs for changing an adventurer class for tradeskillers, then do this for all such changes and be fair.   This means if you change your tradeskill, your lvl 92/320 adventurer must lose all there AAs.  And if you betray, which in a way is an adventurer class change, then there too the toon must lose all there AAs.  Note that right now those betraying don’t lose their AAs, level (both adventurer and tradeskill), quests, like spells stay the same and they get to keep items of their old class such as the mythical weapon.   So a Fury changing to Warden is not an adventurer class change?

And speaking of quests, these can’t be deleted or reset either.  Some of my toons have quests I’m proud to have done when the game came out or special one-time events that are no longer available today.  What about those tradeskill writ quests I’ve grinded through to get to 92?  If I lose those quests will I be forced to give up those tradeskill items associated with them?  Do you remember when Freeport had about 150 quests and I’m not including writs associated with the city?  That’s now I’d say down to 30-40 if lucky.  For those that enjoy questing, and thus the exploration of Norrath, these are like a badge of honor.  I can hear those end-game players saying, “yah, whatever!”

Okay, so why not reroll my race and spend the months / years of repetitive quests to get back to 92 tradeskiller with almost all the items (and quests) that I had before.  That can be done, and I’ve done it with one of my toons.  But the two remaining toons have items that are one time account specific claims that I cannot transfer to my other toons and I want to keep these items!  I joined the game as an artisan and not an adventurer (as we originally had to choose from) but I do get away from the crafting tables once in a while and explorer Norrath via quests.  I really don't want my toon to be penalized to such extremes if I decide to change my adventurer class for proper alignment to race and tradeskill class.

You don't seem to understand this game very well. If I have an adventurer, lvl 92, 320 AA and I want to reset my TS class that's fine. The AA's are gained by adventuring, not TSing. A reset of TS will never affect my adventurer because TS is simply just a job. I don't get stupid just because I change my job from from one thing to another, it doesn't affect who I am at all. Just because you gained some AA by TS-ing that doesn't mean you're right, it means you are o person who chose to do that in a very slow and inefficient way. 

On the other side of the coin, if you want to reset your adventure class, that affects who you are. You are used to your class and have no idea how to function in a new one so you have to re-learn everything you know. in that context a full reset - level and AA -  makes sense.

Your reasoning is neither here nor there and I hope you can now start to see why. The game is based on adventuring, that's how you get levels and AA - questing, soloing, grouping , going out in the world and doing things. TS is park your char near a table, hit 6 buttons over and over and that's it. If you choose to do some TS quests and need to get out, you will be doing it by effectively running away from mobs trying to stay alive while you get from point A to point B.

If you enjoy TS, thats fair enough, but the game itself does not evolve around that. They could take out TS today and it wouldn't make a big difference for adventurers, we can still play the game. Take out adventuring and there's not much left. Get it ?

Actually you are wrong I have a few lvl 92 tradeskillers and I gain AA everytime I do the tradeskill apprecitance quests.  So AA's are tied to both Tradeskills and Adventure and you can use up to 25 of the shared aa points for the tradeskills they are indeed part of a person's toon.  Just because people dismiss tradeskillers gives you no right to jump in and say how it affects who your toon is.  The game is not entirely based on adventuring my low level adventure toons that are make level tradeskillers are quite pleasing and profitable.  And I am pretty sure every fighter class toon that uses tradeskill crafter arrows, throwing stars and knifes would tend to disagree with you about taking out tradeskill and not making a big difference in how "we" play the game.

/bow

Disclamer: My opinions just like yours are mine and if you don't care for them that is a road you must travel.  No spelling checking was preformed again if this brothers tuff, tough.

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Old 07-19-2012, 10:10 AM   #82
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The_Cheeseman wrote:

Pervis wrote:

Wingrider01 wrote:

Changing a class is a lot more invovled then any of the thingd you mention, stop and review your character to see exactly what would have to be changed.

As a Wizard, I can change to a Warlock.

What would you assume (since assume is all you can do) would need to change, database wise, if I were to change instead to an illusionist instead? The answer, obviously, is next to nothing.

Changing to a different archtype is slightly more involved, but only slightly.

You assume it's easy from a position of total ignorance? I have a feeling that if it were that easy to implement, they would be selling class resets already.

What part of "There was an NPC placed on Test that anyone could hail and be converted to an Inquisitor" are you having a hard time with?

The code is DONE.

The issue? Player whining about

A) being able to do it in the first placeB) what should and should not be reset.

Also, as far as AAs and crafting, Domino tested it out and found that you can gain up to 40 AAs entirely by tradeskill quests. Since there are AAs specifically for crafting, the idea of resetting AAs back to 0 is ridiculous. Any kind of class reset should reset AAs back to 40 or whatever # of AAs you have, whichever is lower.

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Old 07-19-2012, 10:49 AM   #83
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[email protected] wrote:

Actually you are wrong I have a few lvl 92 tradeskillers and I gain AA everytime I do the tradeskill apprecitance quests.  So AA's are tied to both Tradeskills and Adventure and you can use up to 25 of the shared aa points for the tradeskills they are indeed part of a person's toon.  Just because people dismiss tradeskillers gives you no right to jump in and say how it affects who your toon is.  The game is not entirely based on adventuring my low level adventure toons that are make level tradeskillers are quite pleasing and profitable.  And I am pretty sure every fighter class toon that uses tradeskill crafter arrows, throwing stars and knifes would tend to disagree with you about taking out tradeskill and not making a big difference in how "we" play the game.

/bow

Disclamer: My opinions just like yours are mine and if you don't care for them that is a road you must travel.  No spelling checking was preformed again if this brothers tuff, tough.

All I see in there is an attempt to justify having low lvl adventurers / high lvl crafters. I don't see anything that responds to my clear points and abslutely nothing that supports the request in this thread.

I don't really care what's profitable for you or not and I don't really care you can craft arrows. That's not the point of the discussion.

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Old 07-19-2012, 10:54 AM   #84
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feldon30 wrote:

 Since there are AAs specifically for crafting, the idea of resetting AAs back to 0 is ridiculous. Any kind of class reset should reset AAs back to 40 or whatever # of AAs you have, whichever is lower.

Wrong. There may be 40 AA specifically for crafting, but they are not separate from adventuring ones. You can earn max AA without ever doing any crafting, so why should you be left with 40 if you reset ? If you had a way to earn them separately, then yes , but as it stands now, you can't and you shouldn't keep anything.

I can show you lots of people who gained 320 AA without doing any crafting.

How many can you put forward who gained that with crafting alone ?

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Old 07-19-2012, 02:39 PM   #85
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Minorious wrote:

This started over 2 years ago in mid 2010 and has been updated by many official people at SOE through the months including Fan Faire. However, it has seemed to drop off the radar as of August of last year when we were told "It has NOT dropped off the radar", but wouldn't be implimented until after the next update.

Well, here I sit for 2 years with a 90 provisioner/42 Illusionist I can't stand and want to reset the Illusionist to something I can level.

Now, to give everyone an update on what I'm talking about, MANY people have created high level tradeskillers but with a low level adventure class they can't stand since we have to create an adventurer "before" we create the tradeskiller.  Then we realize we created the wrong adventure class to begin with, but now have a high level tradeskiller we don't want to lose by completely re-rolling.

To make matters even worse, as a provisioner I have the ability to make some amazing items at 92 but need dungeon and raid rares to make them. I'll NEVER get my Illusionist to end-game to aquire the rares. It was painful enough to get it to 42. lol.

Anyway, the last official update we had on this was....

1. It was going to be a quested reset.2. It would reset your Adventure level down to between 1-10 so you can pick another and start over.3. All AA's would be lost.4. Tradeskill would not be affected.5. It would happen sometime after DoV launch.

Like myself, many of us have been patiently waiting for this for over 2 years. Any new update on this??

I would REALLY like to adventure with my Provisioner so I can someday soon be able to aquire the rares I need.

At the risk of sounding crazy. So in two years you had a toon sit when in shorter time you could have just, I don't know rolled a new one and started over, then deleted said blight on your existence? your a 42 illi with a 90 prov. If your in a guild you can crank out a traedskill like it was nothing. Adventure well take as long as you need, Some do it in a month some seven years. The run from 1-50 is fast as is, I would be willing to bet you could get a 50/50 in about a month with solo stuff.

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Old 07-19-2012, 08:10 PM   #86
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DamselInDistress wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Actually you are wrong I have a few lvl 92 tradeskillers and I gain AA everytime I do the tradeskill apprecitance quests.  So AA's are tied to both Tradeskills and Adventure and you can use up to 25 of the shared aa points for the tradeskills they are indeed part of a person's toon.  Just because people dismiss tradeskillers gives you no right to jump in and say how it affects who your toon is.  The game is not entirely based on adventuring my low level adventure toons that are make level tradeskillers are quite pleasing and profitable.  And I am pretty sure every fighter class toon that uses tradeskill crafter arrows, throwing stars and knifes would tend to disagree with you about taking out tradeskill and not making a big difference in how "we" play the game.

/bow

Disclamer: My opinions just like yours are mine and if you don't care for them that is a road you must travel.  No spelling checking was preformed again if this brothers tuff, tough.

All I see in there is an attempt to justify having low lvl adventurers / high lvl crafters. I don't see anything that responds to my clear points and abslutely nothing that supports the request in this thread.

I don't really care what's profitable for you or not and I don't really care you can craft arrows. That's not the point of the discussion.

I have requoted you at the bottom as you were unable to understand my post and bolded it to point that your "clear" posts are nothing more than random junk.   Honestly all I have seen from you and the_cheeseman is nothing but vile and insults attempting to have a real converstation has provided you a nice playground when you think you are smarter, better, faster than everyone else.  I congradulate your well thought post but alias my time has come to an end on this thread.  Good hunting and safe travels.

Disclaimer: My post, my thoughts enjoy or hate the path you choose is yours alone.

DamselInDistress wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

I would love to see the ability to have my tradeskillers be able to change their adventure class; I have two that need this.  They’re maxed out 92 tradeskillers with their race and tradeskill aligned yet their adventure class is no longer viable due to changes SOE made.  For example, the gnome made a great priest class and alchemist so that’s what he was initially created as.  Then SOE got it into their mind that gnomes would be better as mage class and here I’m stuck with him being a lousy priest class.  The other seven of my tradeskiller are aligned by race, adventure class and tradeskill class.  Yah, many say race doesn’t matter then why is there such a diversification of player races and stats for each?

As for deleting the AAs when switching adventure class, I’m definitely not for this.  I can’t count the endless hours and years of repeated tradeskilling quests that gave me the AAs I have earned.  I’m very slowly bringing up my adventurer class on toons and having those AAs (especially the tradeskill ones) are great and when I get (if ever) to 92, then those hours collecting those earned AAs well then be there for me.  It’s not like I’m magically getting those AAs without any effort, unlike adventurers who now power level through their class and AAs.

I’d say if you’re going to force nuking the AAs for changing an adventurer class for tradeskillers, then do this for all such changes and be fair.   This means if you change your tradeskill, your lvl 92/320 adventurer must lose all there AAs.  And if you betray, which in a way is an adventurer class change, then there too the toon must lose all there AAs.  Note that right now those betraying don’t lose their AAs, level (both adventurer and tradeskill), quests, like spells stay the same and they get to keep items of their old class such as the mythical weapon.   So a Fury changing to Warden is not an adventurer class change?

And speaking of quests, these can’t be deleted or reset either.  Some of my toons have quests I’m proud to have done when the game came out or special one-time events that are no longer available today.  What about those tradeskill writ quests I’ve grinded through to get to 92?  If I lose those quests will I be forced to give up those tradeskill items associated with them?  Do you remember when Freeport had about 150 quests and I’m not including writs associated with the city?  That’s now I’d say down to 30-40 if lucky.  For those that enjoy questing, and thus the exploration of Norrath, these are like a badge of honor.  I can hear those end-game players saying, “yah, whatever!”

Okay, so why not reroll my race and spend the months / years of repetitive quests to get back to 92 tradeskiller with almost all the items (and quests) that I had before.  That can be done, and I’ve done it with one of my toons.  But the two remaining toons have items that are one time account specific claims that I cannot transfer to my other toons and I want to keep these items!  I joined the game as an artisan and not an adventurer (as we originally had to choose from) but I do get away from the crafting tables once in a while and explorer Norrath via quests.  I really don't want my toon to be penalized to such extremes if I decide to change my adventurer class for proper alignment to race and tradeskill class.

You don't seem to understand this game very well. If I have an adventurer, lvl 92, 320 AA and I want to reset my TS class that's fine. The AA's are gained by adventuring, not TSing. A reset of TS will never affect my adventurer because TS is simply just a job. I don't get stupid just because I change my job from from one thing to another, it doesn't affect who I am at all. Just because you gained some AA by TS-ing that doesn't mean you're right, it means you are o person who chose to do that in a very slow and inefficient way. 

On the other side of the coin, if you want to reset your adventure class, that affects who you are. You are used to your class and have no idea how to function in a new one so you have to re-learn everything you know. in that context a full reset - level and AA -  makes sense.

Your reasoning is neither here nor there and I hope you can now start to see why. The game is based on adventuring, that's how you get levels and AA - questing, soloing, grouping , going out in the world and doing things. TS is park your char near a table, hit 6 buttons over and over and that's it. If you choose to do some TS quests and need to get out, you will be doing it by effectively running away from mobs trying to stay alive while you get from point A to point B.

If you enjoy TS, thats fair enough, but the game itself does not evolve around that. They could take out TS today and it wouldn't make a big difference for adventurers, we can still play the game. Take out adventuring and there's not much left. Get it ?

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Old 07-19-2012, 08:16 PM   #87
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DamselInDistress wrote:

All I see in there is an attempt to justify having low lvl adventurers / high lvl crafters

There's nothing about that idea that has to be "justified." It's a part of the game & has been for years.

I'm not commenting on or arguing with anything else you posted, I'm just sayin' that I've no idea why you think that particular line has any relevance to this discussion.

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Old 07-19-2012, 08:42 PM   #88
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...sure would be nice to hear a red name comment, even if it was "[BLEEP] you TS folk.  Get back to pressing 123".

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Old 07-20-2012, 02:14 AM   #89
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feldon30 wrote:

What part of "There was an NPC placed on Test that anyone could hail and be converted to an Inquisitor" are you having a hard time with?

The code is DONE.

The issue? Player whining about

A) being able to do it in the first placeB) what should and should not be reset.

Also, as far as AAs and crafting, Domino tested it out and found that you can gain up to 40 AAs entirely by tradeskill quests. Since there are AAs specifically for crafting, the idea of resetting AAs back to 0 is ridiculous. Any kind of class reset should reset AAs back to 40 or whatever # of AAs you have, whichever is lower.

Excuse me, but I am pretty sure there is a major difference between "Bugged NPC that changes your class to inquisitor" and "Fully-functional class reset". Who knows how many crazy bugs that NPC would have caused in the long run. Hence why every toon that was hit by that bug got rolled back. I don't claim that the code to change a character's class does not exist. What I am saying is that the ability to do so without breaking a dozen other aspects of the character has not yet been demonstrated.

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Old 07-20-2012, 10:39 AM   #90
DamselInDistress

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Join Date: Feb 2012
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[email protected] wrote:

I have requoted you at the bottom as you were unable to understand my post and bolded it to point that your "clear" posts are nothing more than random junk.   Honestly all I have seen from you and the_cheeseman is nothing but vile and insults attempting to have a real converstation has provided you a nice playground when you think you are smarter, better, faster than everyone else.  I congradulate your well thought post but alias my time has come to an end on this thread.  Good hunting and safe travels.

Disclaimer: My post, my thoughts enjoy or hate the path you choose is yours alone.

I am not sure what you're on about. There is not one insult in my replies, not one. Someone that is calling you out on your statements and does not agree with you, is not someone who is insulting you. All I ask is if you think there is a legitimate need for this request, by all means go ahead and make your case.

So far, you and the others failed to do it.

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