EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > General EverQuest II Discussion > General Gameplay Discussion
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-10-2012, 01:00 AM   #31
The_Cheeseman

Loremaster
The_Cheeseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,285
Default

You can't enforce morality through code. The situation in the OP, where the perpetrator was actually the group leader and had the authority to change loot rules, is simply too complex to police via mechanics. As with any social interaction, when you group with somebody in-game you are putting yourself at risk. People are unpredictable, and dealing with others' capricious ways is part of being a member of society. You just have to understand that sometimes people will be jerks, and there's really nothing you can do about it.

Just remember that person's name, blacklist them, warn all your friends about them, and do your best to make sure that the player has to face the social repercussions of his selfishness.

__________________
The_Cheeseman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:04 AM   #32
The_Cheeseman

Loremaster
The_Cheeseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,285
Default

alaplayer wrote:

This discussion that is going on is just one example of why these drops did not belong in these zones in the first place.

I fail to see how this in any way relates to itemization of heroic content. This same issue could have (and has) occured with any rare-dropped item of value, in any form of content. There is nothing about this situation that is specific to heroic content or mythical items. If you want to complain about the existence of quality loot in heroic zones, do it in another thread.

__________________
The_Cheeseman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:48 AM   #33
Kraeref

Champion
Kraeref's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Dear fellow gamers, why in the world we so obsessed with game events and situations. I am talking here about both sides: the one who so called stole the item and apparently was obsessed to get the best item in a game and the other one who cried full. It's a game. It is going to be another day and another loot. Few days and so on. Big deal. Yesterday our office lost a wonderful man to a cancer. This is real life and real loss. And please don't give me a hard time for my opinion, but I think we all have tendency sometimes to take a fictional game too close to the heart. Peace, Krae.
__________________
Kraeref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:56 AM   #34
Kraeref

Champion
Kraeref's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 48
Default

Sorry, misspelled. Full=fool
__________________
Kraeref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 02:50 AM   #35
The_Cheeseman

Loremaster
The_Cheeseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,285
Default

Kraeref wrote:

Dear fellow gamers, why in the world we so obsessed with game events and situations. I am talking here about both sides: the one who so called stole the item and apparently was obsessed to get the best item in a game and the other one who cried full. It's a game. It is going to be another day and another loot. Few days and so on. Big deal. Yesterday our office lost a wonderful man to a cancer. This is real life and real loss. And please don't give me a hard time for my opinion, but I think we all have tendency sometimes to take a fictional game too close to the heart. Peace, Krae.

I am sorry for your loss. However, not only is an MMO like EQ2 technically not a "game", the emotional effects of betrayal and disappointment are not dependent on context. Regardless of what activity you were taking part in, when somebody else betrays your trust, it hurts. Yes, the item itself is only an abstract collection of data, but the feeling of loss and disappointment caused by the offending player's actions are entirely real and should not be belittled.

__________________
The_Cheeseman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 05:00 AM   #36
hoosierdaddy

Loremaster
hoosierdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 302
Default

The_Cheeseman wrote:

Kraeref wrote:

Dear fellow gamers, why in the world we so obsessed with game events and situations. I am talking here about both sides: the one who so called stole the item and apparently was obsessed to get the best item in a game and the other one who cried full. It's a game. It is going to be another day and another loot. Few days and so on. Big deal. Yesterday our office lost a wonderful man to a cancer. This is real life and real loss. And please don't give me a hard time for my opinion, but I think we all have tendency sometimes to take a fictional game too close to the heart. Peace, Krae.

I am sorry for your loss. However, not only is an MMO like EQ2 technically not a "game", the emotional effects of betrayal and disappointment are not dependent on context. Regardless of what activity you were taking part in, when somebody else betrays your trust, it hurts. Yes, the item itself is only an abstract collection of data, but the feeling of loss and disappointment caused by the offending player's actions are entirely real and should not be belittled.

Exactly.

This thread has become a discussion over whether classes should be allowed to role on gear intended for other classes, when it's really a matter of ethics and integrity.

To change loot options, loot an item, and drop group without giving others even a chance to roll is reprehensible, whatever the circumstances.

Then people complain about guilds being insular and only grouping among themselves.

__________________
"The human race is the most stupid and unfair kind of race. A lot of the runners don't even get decent sneakers or clean drinking water. Some runners are born with a massive head start, every possible help along the way and still the referees seem to be on their side. It's not surprising a lot of people have given up competing altogether and gone to sit in the grandstand, eat junk and shout abuse. What the human race needs is a lot more streakers." -- Banksy
hoosierdaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:34 AM   #37
General_Info

Lord
General_Info's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 658
Default

hoosierdaddy wrote:

The_Cheeseman wrote:

I am sorry for your loss. However, not only is an MMO like EQ2 technically not a "game", the emotional effects of betrayal and disappointment are not dependent on context. Regardless of what activity you were taking part in, when somebody else betrays your trust, it hurts. Yes, the item itself is only an abstract collection of data, but the feeling of loss and disappointment caused by the offending player's actions are entirely real and should not be belittled.

To change loot options, loot an item, and drop group without giving others even a chance to roll is reprehensible, whatever the circumstances.

Then people complain about guilds being insular and only grouping among themselves.

Personally i'd make it so chests spawned by a group kill assume the loot option of the group. i.e a chest drops grpleader changes from 'need before greed' to 'leader-only' and tries to loot the chest.

The chest uses need before greed option. (to open the chest at least half of the group which spawned the chest must  be grouped with the person who attempts to loot the chest.)

__________________
General_Info is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 08:00 AM   #38
Senara

Defender
Senara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 23
Default

General_Info wrote:

Personally i'd make it so chests spawned by a group kill assume the loot option of the group. i.e a chest drops grpleader changes from 'need before greed' to 'leader-only' and tries to loot the chest.

The chest uses need before greed option. (to open the chest at least half of the group which spawned the chest must  be grouped with the person who attempts to loot the chest.)

No thanks.It would cause more problems than it solves, such as preventing the legitimate change of loot format after a chest has been opened.

Senara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 09:51 AM   #39
Katz

Loremaster
Katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,601
Default

While I have no "fix" to this problem to suggest, I think that there are two different circumstances entirely depending on the "group".   If you are just a group, then "social handling" of it doesn't work.   And this is probably one reason it is hard for players to find groups as they go through content.   People have a bad experience with a group or groups, its easy to solo most things or just ask your guild to help.   Why join groups when it is so easy to be taken advantage of?

There is no consequence to this for most jerks.   They have fun being a jerk.  They enjoy the taking advantage of others and nothing ever happens to them as a consequence other than they get loot.

Then you have raid groups.   This is entirely different type of group with different needs and you can have social consequences work here.   If you get a  bad reputation, you can be shunned by raid groups.   And there is a definite need for the raid leader to have complete control over the looting.  

If they could put in a fix for non-raid groups that didn't create it's own set of problems, that would be great.  I don't know if that is possible though.

I do think it is a game problem.  Saying the community should handle it is all well and good as a theoretical concept but in reality, we don't have virtual police, jails, or courts to handle the virtual criminals.    In the end, bad experiences discourage people from staying with the game or at the very least grouping.   Lack of grouping probably hurts the game by people getting discouraged and leaving due to not finding others to group with.

Katz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 09:58 AM   #40
Kenazeer

Loremaster
Kenazeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,178
Default

So, if they change the looting options so it has to be confirmed to be changed:

How many does it take?

Can it even be coded so that it is group only?

What happens to the people that voted no?

Does the change keep "ninja" looting from happening completely, or is it only a partial solution?

Does the change open up other ways for someone to "grief"?

Bottom line is that it is a social problem that should be handled by the community, and/or through a petition. Taking dev time to code a prtial solution that only makes it a pita for other people (i.e. raid) is a waste of resources.

__________________
Come play EQ2...we have SOEmote, Dungeon Finder, and Dungeon Maker.
Kenazeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:40 PM   #41
RafaelSmith

Loremaster
RafaelSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,808
Default

Katz wrote:

I do think it is a game problem.  Saying the community should handle it is all well and good as a theoretical concept but in reality, we don't have virtual police, jails, or courts to handle the virtual criminals.    In the end, bad experiences discourage people from staying with the game or at the very least grouping.   Lack of grouping probably hurts the game by people getting discouraged and leaving due to not finding others to group with.

Sorry, but I really disagree that this is a game problem or a problem that SOE is repsonsible for.

If the ninja looter mentioned in the OP had used some hack or whatever to get or take item then it would be a game problem for SOE to correct.   What the looter did was behave like a jerk....which may or may not break the EULA or Fair play clauses but SOE already has ways to players to petition, etc.

Beyond that this is very much a community player problem.   Asking for SOE to waste time putting in more complicated methods is just asking for more/additional things to be added to the game to abuse.   Just like in RL...the more rules beyond the minimum needed you try to put in place to deal with some negative social behavior or whatever the worse the problem gets in the end.

There is no way in software code to prevent players from being jerks.  The more you try the more all you end up doing is hurting the honest players.

__________________
RafaelSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:55 PM   #42
Jrral

Loremaster
Jrral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,610
Default

General_Info wrote:

Personally i'd make it so chests spawned by a group kill assume the loot option of the group. i.e a chest drops grpleader changes from 'need before greed' to 'leader-only' and tries to loot the chest.

That'd completely mess things up in cases where the raid wants one type of looting on main chests (eg. leader-assigned so people can bid DKP on items) but the fight requires another type of looting (eg. there'll be chests that drop that contain items people have to loot and use to complete the fight, so the fight needs to be run with free-for-all looting set) and someone jumps the gun (or the RL's just forgotten) and opens the chest before the raid leader's reset loot options after the fight. This happens to us often enough that the running joke isn't "$FEARLESSLEADER, did you set loot options?", it's the "... No, let me do that real quick..." in response.

Jrral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 01:57 PM   #43
Yimway

Loremaster
Yimway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,707
Default

[email protected] wrote:

General_Info wrote:

Personally i'd make it so chests spawned by a group kill assume the loot option of the group. i.e a chest drops grpleader changes from 'need before greed' to 'leader-only' and tries to loot the chest.

That'd completely mess things up in cases where the raid wants one type of looting on main chests (eg. leader-assigned so people can bid DKP on items) but the fight requires another type of looting (eg. there'll be chests that drop that contain items people have to loot and use to complete the fight, so the fight needs to be run with free-for-all looting set) and someone jumps the gun (or the RL's just forgotten) and opens the chest before the raid leader's reset loot options after the fight. This happens to us often enough that the running joke isn't "$FEARLESSLEADER, did you set loot options?", it's the "... No, let me do that real quick..." in response.

Yes, any changes to how loot rights and chests work would need to ONLY be done to group/heroic play.   Any change that affected raid play would penalize far more people than we'ld benefit.

__________________
Yimway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 02:10 PM   #44
Darkholis

Guardian
Darkholis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 116
Default

Another simple solution that dosen't require any programming at all. Change the Rules of Conduct.

Check this out from EQ1 rules:

2. You may not ninjaloot.Ninjalooting is defined as taking special equipment from a fallen creature without the express permission of those who killed the creature if they are in attendance.The purpose of this rule is to stop those who stand near creatures that carry special items and attempt loot that equipment prior to it being looted by the rightful owner.

We should have the appropriate version for EQ2 rules imo.

__________________
-Raiding is not all about dps, it's about a flawless script execution.

-I do not valuate a raid force on the number of kills they got, I instead valuate it on the number of flawless they achieved.

(Vanuk, 92 guardian, Tyrant of Revenge)
Darkholis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 02:10 PM   #45
Koleg
Server: Unrest_old

Lord
Koleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 713
Default

Sounds like many of you are asking for something you already have when setting loot options when PUG's are built through the Dungeon Finder and as dumb and broken as it is builting balanced groups it does force a loot change poll, so there you go.

Why people still PUG or PUR these days is beyond me; between the fail_001 players thinking they are asweome and the total destrcution of the social aspects, its beyond me.  I can't remember the last time I PUG'ed or PUR'ed outside of guild or a extensive friends list.  You reap what you sow.

Koleg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 02:54 PM   #46
shots01

Lord
shots01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 452
Default

[email protected]_old wrote:

Sounds like many of you are asking for something you already have when setting loot options when PUG's are built through the Dungeon Finder and as dumb and broken as it is builting balanced groups it does force a loot change poll, so there you go.

Why people still PUG or PUR these days is beyond me; between the fail_001 players thinking they are asweome and the total destrcution of the social aspects, its beyond me.  I can't remember the last time I PUG'ed or PUR'ed outside of guild or a extensive friends list.  You reap what you sow.

Some of us are in very small guilds and don't have many friends so PuG groups are the only option we have.  Unless we continue to solo.  Then, we miss out on the raiding feature which for me isn't a big deal.

As for the loot issue..

DDO had similar problems then they instituted a new system:

Loot became assigned to player only with the option to trade it to a specific person.

When you looted a chest, you would get the loot assigned to you.

On a raid, if there was something anyone wanted, they announced so in voice chat then all those that wanted that item did a d100 roll on the item.

highest winner won the item.

shots01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 03:02 PM   #47
Koleg
Server: Unrest_old

Lord
Koleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 713
Default

shots01 wrote:

Some of us are in very small guilds and don't have many friends so PuG groups are the only option we have.  Unless we continue to solo.  Then, we miss out on the raiding feature which for me isn't a big deal.

As for the loot issue..

DDO had similar problems then they instituted a new system:

Loot became assigned to player only with the option to trade it to a specific person.

When you looted a chest, you would get the loot assigned to you.

On a raid, if there was something anyone wanted, they announced so in voice chat then all those that wanted that item did a d100 roll on the item.

highest winner won the item.

That is nothing more than the round-robin option you already have.  Agin .. ever "trick mechanic" being asked for is already in the game... however, if people choose not use the tools I don't really want SOE trying to programmatically fix something that not only they already allow you to do, but also make some asinine attempt at interrupting the intentions of 6+ people becasue 1 loot out of 100,000 was mishandled.

Koleg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 03:50 PM   #48
Xianthia

Loremaster
Xianthia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 545
Default

The loot options were messed with (and thankfully reset to how they worked originally before going live) sometime in the past year, maybe even longer than that.  The changes were not well received.  I hope they don't mess them up again. 

The only change I could see "possibly" being a good one is that a heroic group has to approve if the leader wants to change the loot options after a chest has dropped.  Meaning chest drops (let's even add to that it /has/ to be an exquisite chest) and let's supposed it's a dodgey type leader and they want to change the loot option, then a window would pop up on group members screen asking if ok to switch from "this type looting" to "that type looting". 

Even with the above example, I'm not sure that it is even needed.  Losing an item is bad, but will you ever again group with those people? I wouldn't.  There are some great players out there and there will be the not so honorable ones.  The server community really has to be the one to not group with those that are less than stellar in how they behave with looting (and other behaviors, but that's a different thread I bet!).

Xianthia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 04:13 PM   #49
Hateeternal

Loremaster
Hateeternal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Berlin
Posts: 155
Default

The_Cheeseman wrote:

You can't enforce morality through code. The situation in the OP, where the perpetrator was actually the group leader and had the authority to change loot rules, is simply too complex to police via mechanics. As with any social interaction, when you group with somebody in-game you are putting yourself at risk. People are unpredictable, and dealing with others' capricious ways is part of being a member of society. You just have to understand that sometimes people will be jerks, and there's really nothing you can do about it.

Just remember that person's name, blacklist them, warn all your friends about them, and do your best to make sure that the player has to face the social repercussions of his selfishness.

Well you are right with what you are saying, but you forget that, also with every social interaction, there are pre-set rules that everybody HAS to go by and if they don't, they usually know the punishment.

There are also rules to the social interaction in this game, that everybody agrees to when logging in and they also know the punishment for misbehaviour.

The only real sad thing here is, that SOE have their heads too deep in their own problems and things that goe on plus they constantly lose or change staff... they won't ever have the wish nor the manpower to either work on a solution by code or to enforce their own rules. They simply don't want to as well as they aren't able to, in my eyes.

__________________
Ihr seid lästig und habt euch noch nicht entschieden, wen ihr nerven werdet.

SOE Schedule:

8:00: see what isn't broken yet and break it

10:00: ban players complaining about it on the board

11:00: implement stuff noone wants, that breaks other stuff

-repeat-
Hateeternal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 04:44 PM   #50
hansomepete

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 229
Default

Wow just not sure to say but wow really? That's just messed up.

I thought this was going to be a I was fighting a bunch of mobs to get to named and a bunch of guys jumped the name. I HATE that when people do that.

This is also why I don't group outside our guild anymore. Just a bunch of us that are not super cool or uber we die a ton that's fine, No one has a issue with loot. I still say the one guildie cheats with her roles because I swear she wins ever single role LOL. I always end up The one time I swear it was a great piece of armor I rolled a 99 she roles a 100. ARRG! just lucky see I get the trash junk I can't use.

Oh well it's still all good.

hansomepete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 05:39 PM   #51
Lotoria

Loremaster
Lotoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 18
Default

I'd be happy with just getting groups, they can have the loot.

Of course without the loot your character doesn't get 'better'.

__________________
Lotoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:18 PM   #52
Lotoria

Loremaster
Lotoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 18
Default

Regolas wrote:

*Please do not quote forum violations*

The point of this thread is that /petitioning him would not have resulted in getting the item or the other player being banned.

When I /report /petition someone I add them to my friends list, generally nothing happens regardless of what they are spewing in pubic channels.

__________________
Lotoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:28 PM   #53
The_Cheeseman

Loremaster
The_Cheeseman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,285
Default

Hateeternal wrote:

The_Cheeseman wrote:

You can't enforce morality through code. The situation in the OP, where the perpetrator was actually the group leader and had the authority to change loot rules, is simply too complex to police via mechanics. As with any social interaction, when you group with somebody in-game you are putting yourself at risk. People are unpredictable, and dealing with others' capricious ways is part of being a member of society. You just have to understand that sometimes people will be jerks, and there's really nothing you can do about it.

Just remember that person's name, blacklist them, warn all your friends about them, and do your best to make sure that the player has to face the social repercussions of his selfishness.

Well you are right with what you are saying, but you forget that, also with every social interaction, there are pre-set rules that everybody HAS to go by and if they don't, they usually know the punishment.

There are also rules to the social interaction in this game, that everybody agrees to when logging in and they also know the punishment for misbehaviour.

The only real sad thing here is, that SOE have their heads too deep in their own problems and things that goe on plus they constantly lose or change staff... they won't ever have the wish nor the manpower to either work on a solution by code or to enforce their own rules. They simply don't want to as well as they aren't able to, in my eyes.

There are both codified rules for behavior (laws) and implicit social contracts that shape social interactions. Neither of these can force behavior, they merely provide negative repercussions for those who choose to ignore them. In this case, I believe that the best solution is simply to make sure that this incident becomes well-known in the server community where it took place, forcing the ninja to face the stigma that his actions deserve. I do not feel that SOE's customer service staff should be responsible for policing player behavior (besides those issues in which they are uniquely capable, such as dealing with exploits, spammers, bots, etc). Encouraging arbitration of player disputes via GM intervention goes down a path that I--as a mature, independent adult--personally do not find attractive.

__________________
The_Cheeseman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:44 PM   #54
alaplayer

Elder
alaplayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 173
Default

The_Cheeseman wrote:

Encouraging arbitration of player disputes via GM intervention goes down a path that I--as a mature, independent adult--personally do not find attractive.

Some people simply never get comfortable with the fact that mommy or teacher can't solve all their problems.

Before anyones feathers get all ruffled, if the person that did it gets a temp susepnsion/ban/warning etc you are not going to know in the first place and even if you do what exactly is going to change?

Put them on your FRIENDS list with a note beside them that indicates what they did that way you know, you don't get confused as to who it was and if you ever get an invite and you find them in the group or they join you can inform the others and save them the trouble. Move along, it is only a loot item, it was only given a mythical tag and a high damage rating to placate in the first place. Dwelling on it won't make you get one any faster, nor will avoiding PUGs which for Skyshrine content are going to be a success 95%+ of the time anyway and maybe 1 in a 1000 will have someone that exhibits ibecilic behavior such as this.

alaplayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:45 PM   #55
Lotoria

Loremaster
Lotoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 18
Default

alaplayer wrote:

The_Cheeseman wrote:

Encouraging arbitration of player disputes via GM intervention goes down a path that I--as a mature, independent adult--personally do not find attractive.

Some people simply never get comfortable with the fact that mommy or teacher can't solve all their problems.

Before anyones feathers get all ruffled, if the person that did it gets a temp susepnsion/ban/warning etc you are not going to know in the first place and even if you do what exactly is going to change?

Put them on your FRIENDS list with a note beside them that indicates what they did that way you know, you don't get confused as to who it was and if you ever get an invite and you find them in the group or they join you can inform the others and save them the trouble. Move along, it is only a loot item, it was only given a mythical tag and a high damage rating to placate in the first place. Dwelling on it won't make you get one any faster, nor will avoiding PUGs which for Skyshrine content are going to be a success 95%+ of the time anyway and maybe 1 in a 1000 will have someone that exhibits ibecilic behavior such as this.

Except sharing that information on the server is a bannable offense, that's the catch-22.

__________________
Lotoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:51 PM   #56
alaplayer

Elder
alaplayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 173
Default

CoLDMTL wrote:

Except sharing that information on the server is a bannable offense, that's the catch-22.

No it isn't.

Slandering a player is, this would not be slander.

alaplayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 06:55 PM   #57
Lotoria

Loremaster
Lotoria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 18
Default

alaplayer wrote:

CoLDMTL wrote:

Except sharing that information on the server is a bannable offense, that's the catch-22.

No it isn't.

Slandering a player is, this would not be slander.

Neither of us know whether the charge is 'actually' true.

And in general the server will just laugh at you if you put something like this in public chat, because most won't believe you or don't really care if you were loot ninjaed.

__________________
Lotoria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 07:31 PM   #58
Seiffil
Server: Permafrost
Guild: Grievance
Rank: Raider

Loremaster
Seiffil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 854
Default

Xianthia wrote:

The loot options were messed with (and thankfully reset to how they worked originally before going live) sometime in the past year, maybe even longer than that.  The changes were not well received.  I hope they don't mess them up again. 

The only change I could see "possibly" being a good one is that a heroic group has to approve if the leader wants to change the loot options after a chest has dropped.  Meaning chest drops (let's even add to that it /has/ to be an exquisite chest) and let's supposed it's a dodgey type leader and they want to change the loot option, then a window would pop up on group members screen asking if ok to switch from "this type looting" to "that type looting". 

Even with the above example, I'm not sure that it is even needed.  Losing an item is bad, but will you ever again group with those people? I wouldn't.  There are some great players out there and there will be the not so honorable ones.  The server community really has to be the one to not group with those that are less than stellar in how they behave with looting (and other behaviors, but that's a different thread I bet!).

The issues with the loot changes they made don't really apply to this situation necessarily.  Those changes were they prevented you from rolling on anything your class couldn't use.  The only thing they would do is prevent someone who's not of a class who can use said item, from being able to loot it, even if it was ok with the group, along with requiring you to be present for the kill in order to be able to loot.

As for the person who brought up the definition of ninjalooting from EQ1.  They don't really apply here though either, generally ninjalooting typically applied to people who weren't part of the raid.  In this case the person who took the item regardless of how much I may dislike the action, was involved in the fight, and while changing loot options and snapping up the item is definitely dirty, they aren't receiving loot they shouldn't have had any chance at.

Even the ninja looters who were active members of the raids from EQ1 which they ninja looted from, didn't necessarily get banned, they pretty much were outcast due to their actions by the community instead.

Seiffil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 08:15 PM   #59
Regolas

Loremaster
Regolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 603
Default

I know CSR could ignore a petition but I doubt they'd ignore 5 petitions on the same person at the same time. They can look at the data and see the ninja change of loot rules, loot and log. You may not get the mythical back, but there's hope the ninja looter would lose it and get a ban or temp ban. That way at least they get something detrimental.
Regolas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 09:03 PM   #60
alaplayer

Elder
alaplayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 173
Default

CoLDMTL wrote:

Neither of us know whether the charge is 'actually' true.

And in general the server will just laugh at you if you put something like this in public chat, because most won't believe you or don't really care if you were loot ninjaed.

If I had been involved I would know, if I was not involved I wouldn't say it, a few people started announcing in chat that so-and-so did the described actions in the OP I'd either add them to my friends list and put 2 letters beside their name that would alert me to what type of player they were, or I'd ignore it. The only reason I run them is for white shards anyway, and those can't be ninja'd from me.

Seriously though Cold if I were on your server and all of the comments that you make about how the mere mortals can't this and that, and raiders this and that I'd be inclined to laugh at it too if you made it. If I made a comment like that in general chat on my server I'm pretty sure there would be enough people respond positively that even those that didn't know me would take heed. It shouldn't really matter anyway, as long as you do what you can do to warn the community, if they don't take it seriously so be it, hopefully they will wind up at this person mercy soon.

alaplayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:45 PM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.