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Old 06-19-2012, 07:57 PM   #61
gourdon

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I did a little testing with Edgar on Freeport, a 90/216 Swashbuckler with Thurgadin armor, top faction jewelry from DoV, and a couple of decent weapons, but no augments.

I don't know how much was changed, but it seemed a bit easier for him. I was able to kill the three even con rats without dying, but it took everything he had to win that fight. The biggest issue was with how long it took to regen health. If we were to regen like the avatars do in dungeon maker, I'm pretty sure that a character of this quality would be as well off in dungeons as the avatars have been in the past. Harder encounters will involve some deaths, but that is pretty much par for the course.

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Old 06-19-2012, 08:14 PM   #62
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I asked it before, and I will ask it again, is it possible to copy your dungeon to test server(s) in some way?Trying a real dungeon on test server will be the best way to test difficulty and to not mess up with the ones people have already created.The reason I wanted two of my dungeons copied from Freeport is because they have two different difficulty settings and it would be easier to compare to how they work live with avatars.

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Old 06-20-2012, 01:32 AM   #63
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Shadowynn 90 Beastlord from Test Copy Server, 194 AA'sDungeon: "Funnnn, lol" by KildidarOverall: It seemed like the mobs were more on the difficult end. It's not necessarilly that they're impossible but a group of three drains a lot out of me and my mercenary. I think if they're scaled back a bit or you could choose between an easy and hard setting then it would be more reasonable.

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Old 06-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #64
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Thanks again for all the feedback! This feature needs a lot of feedback and tuning to make it work just right. We have a bunch of the tweaks going out, tentatively, next week likely Tuesday but don't quote me on that.

A few things that I'd love if you guys and gals could test out:

Mercenaries are going to increase the difficulty of player made dungeons. However, know that the difficulty for 1 and 2 players is the same as if you are solo, then it ticks up for 3, 4 and 5 and 6 is the same as 5. Give it a try with the differing numbers of players/mercs and let us know what you think.

We scaled up the difficulty just a bit on level 92s and slightly lowered it for everyone else and really lowered it for people under level 35. I am sure that this will need another round of feedback+tuning after this. Thank you for bearing with us.

So in the meantime while we wait for these changes to hit test server. I would like to ask:

Is this fun? What would you recommend to make this more fun?

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Old 06-21-2012, 06:25 PM   #65
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There are two things I can think of that will make Dungeon Maker more fun.  First, there need to be more rewards associated with Dungeon Maker.  There should be more achievements and/or titles etc. associated with running dungeons, including how many different dungeons you've completed.  A status award might not be unreasonable if it is kept low enough not to be the best way to get status.

It also would be nice to have more stuff that isn't just stuff to build a dungeon to buy with our marks.  SJ and Holly said something about some SC items being made available in game.  Opening Brell's vault to mark purchases might not be a bad idea.  There probably should also be maybe one meaningful piece of gear associated with Dungeon Maker with a lot of moderately expensive upgrades so people can progress in small steps but still have a significant time sink.  I was thinking something along the lines of 10 steps of 500 marks each or something along those lines.  To reduce the number of items someone has to make up, it could be a class agnostic piece of jewelry that increases all stats, sticks mostly to cc cb pot reuse speed mit increase etc, with only one non-universally useful stat that can be reforged.

Finally, make sure people aren't sitting around waiting to regen for too long, as this will make the dungeons not so tedious.  This can be accomplished by just shifting the balance to mobs not hitting very hard or by just increasing out of combat regen.  Either way can work, though dungeons will probably be tuned to where encounters are barely doable for the weakest players, so faster regen is probably the better solution.

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Old 06-21-2012, 06:45 PM   #66
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Let us script encounters and assign loot (pulling coin and items from our inventory). I know the scripting will probably not happen but loot would make it tons more fun to both build and play these. I bet everyone here instinctively tries to loot everything they kill in the dungeons (I know I do).

EDIT: Yeah, I just realized what I asked for. Kinda difficult to assign loot as the dungeon builder would end up doing nothing but assigning loot after each run of the dungeon. Hrm..

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Old 06-21-2012, 07:23 PM   #67
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Hordolin Awanagin wrote:

Let us script encounters and assign loot (pulling coin and items from our inventory). I know the scripting will probably not happen but loot would make it tons more fun to both build and play these. I bet everyone here instinctively tries to loot everything they kill in the dungeons (I know I do).

EDIT: Yeah, I just realized what I asked for. Kinda difficult to assign loot as the dungeon builder would end up doing nothing but assigning loot after each run of the dungeon. Hrm..

Assuming loot drops can be programmed in with minimal effort, requiring the dungeon designer to provide the loot isn't going to work.  As an alternative, they could make the dungeons a good place to get transmute fodder by giving the mobs a perentage chance of dropping a treasured item.  The level of the item could be determined either by the highest level character in a party or by randomizing amongst the party members.  They could include the usual body drops as well, but just adding the chance of a treasure chest dropping would add quite a bit.

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Old 06-21-2012, 07:37 PM   #68
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Maevianiu wrote:

So in the meantime while we wait for these changes to hit test server. I would like to ask:

Is this fun? What would you recommend to make this more fun?

Honestly, I'd rather play with an avatar instead of as myself at this point. While some gripe that they want to play as their characters there's nothing wrong with the avatars and they do the job quite efficiently with the live server version of DM.

As for general DM feedback, I made a huge post a couple of weeks ago in the Dungeon Maker forum: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=518354

... also, please add some loot drop plant spawners.... I want to finish my plant-themed dungeon before 2013 runs out and that's looking unlikely with how difficult it is to get one from the RNG boosters (there's only two in there).

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Old 06-21-2012, 08:59 PM   #69
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Cyliena wrote:

Maevianiu wrote:

So in the meantime while we wait for these changes to hit test server. I would like to ask:

Is this fun? What would you recommend to make this more fun?

Honestly, I'd rather play with an avatar instead of as myself at this point. While some gripe that they want to play as their characters there's nothing wrong with the avatars and they do the job quite efficiently with the live server version of DM.

As for general DM feedback, I made a huge post a couple of weeks ago in the Dungeon Maker forum: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=518354

... also, please add some loot drop plant spawners.... I want to finish my plant-themed dungeon before 2013 runs out and that's looking unlikely with how difficult it is to get one from the RNG boosters (there's only two in there).

Your wish list for dungeon builders is very nice.  I think that if there is only one thing that they work on, it should be having the mobs recognize barriers.  With that one feature they will drastically improve the potential for interesting dungeons.

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Old 06-22-2012, 09:03 AM   #70
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One thing I have noticed is that pets seem to have 'super mitigation'. As mid 60 Necromancer I can clear entire rooms with only a few heals on my pet (as long as I avoid all the AOE damage). I mean I like being seemingly invincible but seems a bit unfair to any non pet class. For numbers at 65 my mage pet would never be hit any harder than 70ish and thats a lvl 96 one tier up mob.

Also mob healers heal as if they are your level even though your damage is scaled way up. So an average autoattack maybe 10,000 but a mob heal will only be 3000 so realy it does squat for them.

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Old 06-22-2012, 09:09 AM   #71
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Griegus wrote:

One thing I have noticed is that pets seem to have 'super mitigation'. As mid 60 Necromancer I can clear entire rooms with only a few heals on my pet (as long as I avoid all the AOE damage). I mean I like being seemingly invincible but seems a bit unfair to any non pet class. For numbers at 65 my mage pet would never be hit any harder than 70ish and thats a lvl 96 one tier up mob.

Also mob healers heal as if they are your level even though your damage is scaled way up. So an average autoattack maybe 10,000 but a mob heal will only be 3000 so realy it does squat for them.

It must depend on the level, I had to heal my conjuror tank all the time at level 92. Did you have any kind of aggro problems? My pet just couldn't keep the aggro clear of me and healing my pet brought all the other mobs of each encounter on me and the pet never switched to hit one of those whe where on me.

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Old 06-22-2012, 10:52 AM   #72
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As far as I could tell I didnt have any agro problems especially in pet defensive stance. Very rarely would a mob prefer me over my pet and it usualy didnt take long for the pet to get agro back. I did have agro problems playing a beastlord but there pets are not made to hold agro. If I tried to over do it I am pretty sure I could have pulled agro away but I tried to be conservative with my dps. Not sure if tainted heals generates less agro than say a conjurer direct heal spell.

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Old 06-22-2012, 11:34 AM   #73
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Ah yes, could be that. The direct heal generates aggro for all mobs currently hitting the target healed, while tainted heals only generates hate for the target hit by the spell that triggered it.

aka if you have X, Y and Z target, healing will raise aggro with X, Y and Z. If you cast a root on X to trigger tainted heals, you'll only raise aggro with X.

And as the targets are not linked, every spell for an encounter, only works on a single target (which sure doesn't help a conjuror).

I'll test with a lower level necro once the patch is in though.

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Old 06-27-2012, 07:00 PM   #74
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I'm moving IRL this week but I saw the fixes finally patched. I'll try to get on to test them out next week if someone else doesn't beat me to it. SMILEY

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Old 06-27-2012, 08:13 PM   #75
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Cyliena wrote:

I'm moving IRL this week but I saw the fixes finally patched. I'll try to get on to test them out next week if someone else doesn't beat me to it.

I'm waiting until they fix the test environment first.  As it stands, test is so screwed up with damage and physical mitigation screw-ups that it isn't worth testing until they fix it.

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:44 AM   #76
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And I will not try again until we have a way of importing our own dungeons to test server. Would be so much easier to compare it with dungeons you have live than just putting up rooms. Too many combinations of effect objects and mobs to test thoroughly in temp dungeons.

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Old 07-03-2012, 11:01 AM   #77
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[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

And I will not try again until we have a way of importing our own dungeons to test server. Would be so much easier to compare it with dungeons you have live than just putting up rooms. Too many combinations of effect objects and mobs to test thoroughly in temp dungeons.

You already can. Save the layout on your live server, then make a copy of the "saved_house_layouts" folder and dump it in the TestServer folder.

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Old 07-03-2012, 11:12 AM   #78
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Compared to avatars on Live, playing as myself (92 Monk) is pretty outrageously overpowered. I am basically immortal in there, and can kill faster than any avatar I have tried. If this goes live in its current state, acquiring dungeon marks will be a complete joke (though I suppose that's not such a big deal, since there's nothing particularly useful to buy with them).

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Old 07-07-2012, 06:34 AM   #79
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I finally got back around to playing on the test copy server despite technical difficulties.

I tried playing Cythelia's test dungeon with Edgar on Freeport again.  After picking out his focus effects and other development AAs, the test dungeon was a little bit easier.  I'm not sure if this was because he is now more powerful or because he has been bumped up a little in dungeon maker dungeons.

Essentially, he is a rather weak level 90 character and is able to now kill the three rat encounter a little bit more comfortably.  He still needs to use a number of short term buffs, but still had orange health when he finished them.  The biggest problem for this character in dungeon maker dungeons will be how slowly his health regenerates between combats.  Doing a full dungeon with him would be possible, though incredibly tedious with long waits frequently.  This could be mitigated to some degree with a couple of healing proc augments for his weapons, but having a pair of 10+ plat augs might be a pretty high expectation for level 90 characters to need to make it through dungeon maker dungeons.

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Old 07-09-2012, 10:13 PM   #80
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Love Playing as Self!!

I copied over one of my Dungeons to TEST COPY - (granted some of it was lost in the copy)  -Flavor TXT and some of  the Single Spawners     ------Ohlon's  Illusion Factory

Mobs don't feel like a CAKE WALK on test ... 

I love the changes...look forward to them going LIVE!! ... 

I will have to rethink MOB placement once this goes live....Mobs actually have a bite now!!

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