EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > The Development Corner > In Testing Feedback
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-28-2012, 06:35 PM   #31
Rhita
Server: Unrest
Guild: Shoukin
Rank: Yakuin

Loremaster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 144
Default

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Neonblue wrote:

Really Lyndro, is that a joke? If so its not very funny.  I thought april fools has passed.   

I guess we will have to wait until the so called "class by class" change happen.  It will prolly be rolled in right before the test goes live, if at all.  

As a person who regularly plays all classes, I can guranetee that this change will have drastic affects if not addressed.  I don't get what the problem is if a mage has a little more physical mit?  Please don't tell me this is a PVP fix, cause it sure does smell like one.  And nothing makes me want to rage quit this game more than PVP fixes affecting PVE play.

This change has nothing to do with PvP. We are able to tune and balance PvP mitigation curves percentages independently.

Are you able to tune trauma AE's, melee damage with the multi attacks on tanks, and that really lame melee proc that every mob in game seems to have that triggers off every melee hit now that already inflicts 40k+ and constantly 1 shots tanks and will do so even more with less mit?

__________________
Rhita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 06:38 PM   #32
Tylia
Server: Butcherblock
Guild: Test of Time
Rank: Member

Loremaster
Tylia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 757
Default

1656 is a huge chunk of physical mit to suddenly lose!  It's not something that is easily replaced.  Please, reconsider!!

Tylia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 06:49 PM   #33
Dethdlr
Server: Butcherblock
Guild: Advent of Valor
Rank: Council Leader

Fansite Staff
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 673
Default

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

This change has nothing to do with PvP. We are able to tune and balance PvP mitigation curves percentages independently.

Then why the change?  And why only implement the removal part and not the class by class adjustment to compensate?

You're unbalancing every encounter in the game and doing nothing to compensate for it.  Is this really the plan or are those class by class adjustments going to be implemented before the GU?

Sorry, but plenty of us have seen first hand the difference between being spec'd this way and not being spec'd this way and how it impacts survivability.  Are we not dying enough or something?  lol

__________________


EQ2U Lead Programmer |Dethdlr's Adornment Calculator | EQ2Wire.com Columnist

Dethdlr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 06:56 PM   #34
Uwopo
Server: Antonia Bayle
Guild: Vertigo
Rank: Officer

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 164
Default

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

This needs to be addressed before GU64 goes live.  Any raider with half a clue went down the mitigation resist line, regardless of class.

Losing ~1600 mitigation on my fighter is annoying enough, but it's going to break things for other classes.

If the purpose of this character development consolidation was to simplify the page, why is a significant nerf being rolled into it before an appropriate balance solution has even been proposed?

Uwopo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 07:00 PM   #35
kalaria

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 121
Default

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

This change has nothing to do with PvP. We are able to tune and balance PvP mitigation curves percentages independently.

Out of all the SERIOUS concerns in this thread about this ill-thought-out change, the only point you address is a conspiracy theory? Seriously?

The scope of this mitigation removal is vast and is affected by so many entirely separate encounter mechanics that honestly, you have no hope in ever correcting them... yet, you are going to do this anyways.

kalaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 07:09 PM   #36
Trennt
Server: The Bazaar
Guild: Knights Of Goodness
Rank: Junior Member (5,000)

Loremaster
Trennt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11
Default

Time has come to cancel my EQII accounts and start playing SW:TOR again? Thats just great, all the time I've spent recently gearing up my guardian to tank SS zones for my guild specced fully defensive/hate gain and the healers I have are having enough trouble to keep me alive already. On live I have what I consider to be a pretty decent amount of mitigation, with my standard group I am buffing to 75% (I believe I have 72-73% unbuffed) logged onto testcopy, bought all of my focus effects, and im down to 68% mitigation, to me this is totally unacceptable. I havent even had the heart to see how large this nerf is to my non fighter alts but if "clothies get more" then every one of my alts got beat down with this gigantic nerf bat and I don't see them getting back up. /mourn

__________________
Trennt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 07:43 PM   #37
jjlo69

Loremaster
jjlo69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Default

 You know what funny is these changes changes are gonna go in mid july.. which mean they wont get fixed until early sept - oct just in time for fanfare or what every it is called now.. Glad arenenet annouced gw2 will beout on aug 28 today give me something to do until this gets fixed

jjlo69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 08:01 PM   #38
Megavolt
Server: Everfrost
Guild: Mithril
Rank: Emissary (6mo + 250k status)

Loremaster
Megavolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 212
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Glad arenenet annouced gw2 will beout on aug 28 today give me something to do until this gets fixed

+1

Maybe SOE made some back office deal with arenanet to chase everyone off in less than chain over to GW2.

__________________
Megavolt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 08:04 PM   #39
Neiloch

Loremaster
Neiloch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,430
Default

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

You guys really need to learn how to adjust things evenly. You got this stance going in but only fighters get a new stance, no one else gets any other equivalent change. Then you get rid of mitigation traits with vague 'plans' to make up for it later.

Pro tip: You don't get rid of something until it's replacement is finished. You make additions in even layers, not towering chunks.

Yes i know this is the test server, but by your own admission this is a temporary state, which makes testing this pointless.

"we're definitely going to be putting a new steering wheel in here later, but for now just test drive the car without a steering wheel, thus making any feedback about how the car handles without a steering wheel useless."

__________________
Neiloch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 08:11 PM   #40
Alenna
Server: Guk
Guild: Defenders of the Light
Rank: Count

Loremaster
Alenna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,938
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Anastasie wrote:

Please say they are going to balance this prior to the gu so I don't have a full group of mages going splat every time a trauma ae hits them

Oy, if this goes live before it's all sorted, I think I'll just stop raiding for a while.  It is not going to be pretty and to be honest, I'm not that fond of dying.. repeatedly.. for over 3 hours. 

Lyndro!  Please reconsider this huge mistake of a change!!!

I"m already having a little trouble going splat and 3 or 4 times on my 92/302 Lock  during the raids our causual raid force is doing and with this change I'll be on the floor hte whole time how is that going to help my raids dps hmm?

Give us back the ability to choose physical mit in the character select or put it auto maticaly in as you've done with noxious, arcane and elemental.  I choose the phys mit for a reason you do not give me pieces of armour or jewelry that up my physical mit only the other three. do something or I might have to try and talk my guild into letting me bring my Ranger out of retirement at least she has a better chance at survival.

__________________
Alenna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 08:30 PM   #41
Tigerr

Lord
Tigerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 125
Default

I cant believe this, I really cant. I understand if ALL of the foci were an ADDITION to our total stats, instead you guys managed to NERF us in the process... This was NOT needed at all. I don't understand why you would even announce this in the webcast, this is seriously pathetic... Like I mentioned earlier, your "Captain" has probably done less "sailing" than I have in the community pool. This is INSANE that you guys try to launch some "addition" ( which was not a bad idea but, NOT NEEDED) and end up nerfing 25 classes that are now TERRIFIED at the upcomming "adjustments" SoE, seriously... Stop... This didn't even NEED to be addressed in the webcast considering how great you made this "addition" out to be... The fighter upgrade is a complete joke and it really feels that noone on the team played a character passed level 20 based on these idiotic changes. Instead of breaking stuff that didn't even need to be touched, focus on the new zones that you guys STILL have not fixed... There are still dozens of broken mechanics and countless broken raid/heroic items. I understand the idea that you guys are "trying" but really, this is not doing ANYTHING but scaring the crap out of every single person that plays this game. Stop listening to the whiners, the majority of them have NO idea what they are talking about. Noone would be this upset if we all knew that with this mitigation decrease, each class would be boosted properly BEFORE the launch.. but we ALL know that is NOT going to happen and you guys are going to screw something up....again. If this is just a reason to nerf zones, dont... they are easy as is.. Its really pathetic, everytime I see a red name post, it makes me cringe, its sad that the players know more about the mechanics of this game (lvl 40+) than you guys do.
Tigerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 08:40 PM   #42
Beko
Server: Antonia Bayle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 283
Default

Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.

Beko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 09:13 PM   #43
kdmorse

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 653
Default

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

Translation:  "Yes, we're intentionally nerfing you blue.  But *trust us*, we'll come up with a new class by class mechanic at some undisclosed point in the future."

You don't have any *Trust Us* left.  You've used that line too many times.  But what really baffles me is the last bit:

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

But... with this very change... you're doing exactly that...   you're making a blanket change for everyone that effects people unevenly.  You're making a mechanics change that hurts plate wearers a little, chain wearers a lot, and screws cloth wearers blue.

And we all know darn well you're going to launch GU64 that way, with a promise of "we'll address issues later".

Completely unbelievable...

kdmorse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 09:49 PM   #44
Tigerr

Lord
Tigerr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 125
Default

Pointless changes, If I were you guys, I'd change it back... These empty promises are getting old. You guys said we are getting an "upgrade" and how nice this new character tab will be... You took out PHYSICAL mit in the process. A HUGE stat that will make a HUGE difference. You said that it is different from class to class, some classes lose less, some lose more. With that thought process, you should take out EVERY SINGLE STAT IN THE GAME. Why would you even do this to begin with?.. It WAS NOTTTT needed. Stop messing up the game, its already fragile, instead, work on stuff that makes a difference instead of giving scrubs a way to get class focus from lvl 9. This may come off mean spirited but guess what, these changes are POINTLESS, and not only are they pointless, they are ALSO nerfing something thats a pretty big deal in the process. The team right now, has NO idea what they are doing. I find it HILARIOUS that with a change that is supposed to give handouts to everyone, you managed to take something OUT. Not one person trusts that you will do this the right way. I said it before and I will say it again..We can deal with the pointless changes and just shake our heads while you please the whiners, but pointless changes while ALSO nerfing us is not something the community will ignore.
Tigerr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 10:13 PM   #45
Piropiro
Server: Unrest_old
Guild: Shoukin
Rank: Buzai

Loremaster
Piropiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 129
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.

no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.

giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...

Piropiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2012, 11:31 PM   #46
Novusod

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,719
Default

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

Please consider putting mitigation increase on the Reforger NPC. This gives the player the option of choosing survivablitiy over DPS stats.

__________________
Novusod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 01:05 AM   #47
Hirofortis

Loremaster
Hirofortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 610
Default

I have to wonder if you really understand your own game at this point.  You have years of content tuned to a mitigation system that YOU are now saying is broken and does not work. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example)" The mitigation formula works fine.  There is no error in the mathematics.  At this point you are focusing on creating a problem instead of fixing all the other issues that are out there.  You feel there is an issue, fine, but come up with a solution before you use a nuke on our characters.  All you are doing is making an absolute mess out of every raider.  People are going to be 1 shotted and frustrated and want nothing but to quit becasue of the absolute poor management of this situation.  If you want to change it fine, but get a solution first.  Don't screw up 90% of the encounters in the game with such a stupid move. SMILEY  You are seriously making me doubt wether I want to play this game anymore and I have been playing SOE games for 14 years. SMILEY

Hirofortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 01:57 AM   #48
Beko
Server: Antonia Bayle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 283
Default

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.

no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.

giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...

Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?

Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.

Beko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 02:45 AM   #49
Hirofortis

Loremaster
Hirofortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 610
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.

no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.

giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...

Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?

Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.

All classes were effected the same by mitigation. NO class was treated differently with mitigation.  We all started at the bottom of the curve and worked our way up.  If you are at the top of the curve you get less than at the bottom so that as you got closer to the cap it was harder to max out.  This system is used in almost everythign in the game. Why is it suddenly messed up Lyndro?

Hirofortis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 03:41 AM   #50
Daalilama
Server: Nagafen
Guild: Illuminati
Rank: Senior Officer

Loremaster
Daalilama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 437
Default

I think there solution is for raiders to replace the squishes with more tanks in reckless stance afterall Atan himself pointed out in another thread that tanks in reckless should have all the tools to mitigate a 50% increase in damage while dps'in...lol if only this was some fairy tale where tanks could go hyper dps stance and squishes are getting 1 shotted by a 30-50% nerf in their mitigation against physical ae's and attcks..ohh wait nevermind.

/sarcasim off

This needs to be fixed not the night before live...now otherwise  I'd say put the physical mit back in until your "class by class" fix is ready to try out.

Daalilama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 09:58 AM   #51
Hateeternal

Loremaster
Hateeternal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Berlin
Posts: 155
Default

Lyndro-EQ2 wrote:

Howdy all,

Physical mitigation will not be rolled into the new focus effects. Physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes (Clothies get a bigger bonus from it than plate wearers do, for example). We'll address issues in ways that are easier to maintain and balance on a class by class basis instead of something that is a blanket change for everyone.

You can't really be serious on that, aren't you realizing what you're just saying?

If physical mitigation doesn't scale equally for all classes there WILL bei unequal changes to all classes when this

kicks in and you ARE going to have even more problems in "adressing issues" as you are, with the current state.

You are trying to get to the issue from the wrong side - physical mitigation HAS to stay in the game as it is,

just make it invisible (like you did now with the other stuff, regen and such) and adress your issues on a real class to class basis, like you said.

This is just stupid and I'm starting to wonder if SOE is going down the same road with EQ2 now, than it did with SWG...

Changing everything which noone wants, etc... SMILEY

__________________
Ihr seid lästig und habt euch noch nicht entschieden, wen ihr nerven werdet.

SOE Schedule:

8:00: see what isn't broken yet and break it

10:00: ban players complaining about it on the board

11:00: implement stuff noone wants, that breaks other stuff

-repeat-
Hateeternal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 10:42 AM   #52
Piropiro
Server: Unrest_old
Guild: Shoukin
Rank: Buzai

Loremaster
Piropiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 129
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.

no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.

giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...

Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?

Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.

What is hypocritical about an equal add of mitigation to every class. does this mean we should remove every single stat that every class gets an equal amount because some class will be effected more? what is hypocritical is removing an equal numerical amt of mitigation increase that has been in the game for years that will destroy the weakest classes in game, yet add a stance for the strongest mitigated classes in game, drasticaly increasing their damage output. the day these two go live as it is i'm going back to consoles. this game is to screwed up already to suffer anymore screwed up mechanic inbalance issues.

Piropiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 11:19 AM   #53
Adegx
Server: Permafrost
Guild: League of the Extraordinary
Rank: KNIGHTS

Loremaster
Adegx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 276
Default

[email protected] Bazaar wrote:

Time has come to cancel my EQII accounts and start playing SW:TOR again? Thats just great, all the time I've spent recently gearing up my guardian to tank SS zones for my guild specced fully defensive/hate gain and the healers I have are having enough trouble to keep me alive already. On live I have what I consider to be a pretty decent amount of mitigation, with my standard group I am buffing to 75% (I believe I have 72-73% unbuffed) logged onto testcopy, bought all of my focus effects, and im down to 68% mitigation, to me this is totally unacceptable. I havent even had the heart to see how large this nerf is to my non fighter alts but if "clothies get more" then every one of my alts got beat down with this gigantic nerf bat and I don't see them getting back up. /mourn

See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.

Seriously people, Yes this probably is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as

abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.

We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.

Go forth and TEST!

Adegx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 11:31 AM   #54
RafaelSmith

Loremaster
RafaelSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,808
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Seriously people, Yes this probably is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as

abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.

We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.

Go forth and TEST!

Noting more satisfying than paying someone for the right to do their job for them.

__________________
RafaelSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 12:24 PM   #55
Beko
Server: Antonia Bayle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 283
Default

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.

no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.

giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...

Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?

Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.

What is hypocritical about an equal add of mitigation to every class. does this mean we should remove every single stat that every class gets an equal amount because some class will be effected more? what is hypocritical is removing an equal numerical amt of mitigation increase that has been in the game for years that will destroy the weakest classes in game, yet add a stance for the strongest mitigated classes in game, drasticaly increasing their damage output. the day these two go live as it is i'm going back to consoles. this game is to screwed up already to suffer anymore screwed up mechanic inbalance issues.

Yes, its about as equal as giving someone with 90% AOE Autoattack 50% More and someone with 0% AOE Autoattack 50% More, When the cap is 100%.

Wait... thats not equal at all!

Beko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 12:38 PM   #56
kalaria

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 121
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Yes, its about as equal as giving someone with 90% AOE Autoattack 50% More and someone with 0% AOE Autoattack 50% More, When the cap is 100%.

Wait... thats not equal at all!

Actually, your "example" is horribly inaccurate.AE autoattack has a hard cap (which is stupid, yes I agree) so anything about 100 truely does absolutely nothing, regardless of the level of the mob you are fighting.

Mitigation, on the other hand is on a diminishing returns curve, so more mitigation always gives you something, even if not as much on the top end.  Moreover, the damage mitigation is also dependent on the level of the mob that is attacking you, so while mousing over your mitigation stat shows minimal gains for an increase vs a lvl 92 mob....  that increase will be much more useful when being attacked by a lvl 100 mob.

kalaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 12:42 PM   #57
Piropiro
Server: Unrest_old
Guild: Shoukin
Rank: Buzai

Loremaster
Piropiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 129
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.

no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.

giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...

Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?

Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.

What is hypocritical about an equal add of mitigation to every class. does this mean we should remove every single stat that every class gets an equal amount because some class will be effected more? what is hypocritical is removing an equal numerical amt of mitigation increase that has been in the game for years that will destroy the weakest classes in game, yet add a stance for the strongest mitigated classes in game, drasticaly increasing their damage output. the day these two go live as it is i'm going back to consoles. this game is to screwed up already to suffer anymore screwed up mechanic inbalance issues.

Yes, its about as equal as giving someone with 90% AOE Autoattack 50% More and someone with 0% AOE Autoattack 50% More, When the cap is 100%.

Wait... thats not equal at all!

are you really that daft? the numerical value across the board is the same amount, same does by definition mean an equal amount. the GAIN is different, due to class and gear differences, but that is true on EVERY STAT. say ur a tank and im a mage, lets give us each 100 potency, and see if the gain is the same. of course it's not, does that mean we should remove potency from being shared also? no, this game is based off balancing the gains that different classes get from shared stats. the physical mitigation is the only thing that keeps some classes alive at all, and a lot of times its not even enough.

so your class happens to finally be at the point in itemization to where it can get a cap on physical mitigation, congratulations, mages have been caped at cast and reuse for over two years now. it doesn't mean that we should remove any other class from being able to get it. bc when we do we dont gain.

Piropiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 12:45 PM   #58
Drupal

Elder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 105
Default

[email protected] wrote:

See? This is why we cant have nice things, or open communication. Every time SoE sticks their head out and says this undesirable change was intentional the haters and rage quitters come out to play.  Its no wonder they hide in their shell and dont tell us things.

Seriously people, Yes this probably is an issue.  Go forth and TEST. Gather hard data.  I have yet to see a post such as

abc hits me on avg for X on live  vs  Y on test.

We need data if we are going to make SoE listen.  Data from clothies, from plates, from chain. Both live and test and both solo,heroic, and raid.

Go forth and TEST!

I am right with you bro, there's just one tiny little hiccup there. I am prepared to go and spen my time on test when SOE is paying me my rate of 40$ / hour. Until then, they can do the testing themselves, since it is in fact part of their job.

Drupal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 12:49 PM   #59
Beko
Server: Antonia Bayle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 283
Default

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected]_old wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Add 1% Damage Reduction per talent, that way it fairly gives every class the same advantage.

no, bc then the classes with a lot of mit will come off better as they will still take less overall dps while it will be an insignificant amt for a cloth. no matter what is done it wont go into affect "evenly". some class will always take more advantage of anything in game. thats just the reality of it. you can't balance every single thing, what u have to do is understand how things will affect each class and give dif stats/skills/abilities etc to balance classes out. all this is, is a nerf on well, weak characters mitigation. it doens't help fighters either, but it slams mages/druids. when u loose half of your phys mit, u loose a lot more then 1% dmg reduction per rank. and this is the already weakest physical mit archtype in game.

giving a mage 1500 mit isn't anything super unbalanced like giving a class an ability that doubles their potency...

Wait... so its fine how it was before where it effected the lesser mitigation classes WAY better?

Kind of hypocritical, lets just remove it.

What is hypocritical about an equal add of mitigation to every class. does this mean we should remove every single stat that every class gets an equal amount because some class will be effected more? what is hypocritical is removing an equal numerical amt of mitigation increase that has been in the game for years that will destroy the weakest classes in game, yet add a stance for the strongest mitigated classes in game, drasticaly increasing their damage output. the day these two go live as it is i'm going back to consoles. this game is to screwed up already to suffer anymore screwed up mechanic inbalance issues.

Yes, its about as equal as giving someone with 90% AOE Autoattack 50% More and someone with 0% AOE Autoattack 50% More, When the cap is 100%.

Wait... thats not equal at all!

are you really that daft? the numerical value across the board is the same amount, same does by definition mean an equal amount. the GAIN is different, due to class and gear differences, but that is true on EVERY STAT. say ur a tank and im a mage, lets give us each 100 potency, and see if the gain is the same. of course it's not, does that mean we should remove potency from being shared also? no, this game is based off balancing the gains that different classes get from shared stats. the physical mitigation is the only thing that keeps some classes alive at all, and a lot of times its not even enough.

so your class happens to finally be at the point in itemization to where it can get a cap on physical mitigation, congratulations, mages have been caped at cast and reuse for over two years now. it doesn't mean that we should remove any other class from being able to get it. bc when we do we dont gain.

Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.

Just Reuse And Cast Speed? Berserkers have been capped on DPS/Haste/AOE Autoattack for almost 4 years.

Reuse Speed was just recently capped.

Beko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2012, 01:01 PM   #60
kalaria

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 121
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Yes, therefore not equal and ruining your argument.

Ah so you have capped out physical mit in a raid situation then...Oh wait, you haven't?!

Well that rather sinks your argument there.

kalaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:03 PM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.