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Old 01-15-2012, 12:25 AM   #181
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People keep comparing this to LotRO, saying they have a better model. I really don't know about that, since I've never gotten a character above level 20. And the last time I played, you had to buy the quests from level 20 on, and you also had to buy your riding skill. That turned me off. Is it still that way?

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Old 01-15-2012, 02:19 AM   #182
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People keep comparing this to LotRO, saying they have a better model. I really don't know about that, since I've never gotten a character above level 20. And the last time I played, you had to buy the quests from level 20 on, and you also had to buy your riding skill. That turned me off. Is it still that way?

For the fist part, I have no experience (only level 18), but it looks like free quests cap out a bit after 30. As for riding, the free cash shop points you get from deeds adds up enough to get the skill by level 20 (which is when you'd get it as a sub) without much hassle (you want the traits from deeds anyway).

I think of it as much friendlier than EQ2's because the stuff I want/need from the cash shop are all unlocks, mostly account level unlocks to boot. Spending 30 cents for the privilege of using one quest reward I just earned sucks. Spending 8 dollars to gain access a whole new area for all my characters forever is psychologically much better.

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Old 01-15-2012, 03:57 AM   #183
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Why are we even comparing LotRO to EQ2?

EQ2 has had 7 expansion packs and 3 adventure packs between the date of its initial release and F2P conversion. LotRO has had 2 expansion packs. Yes, only 2, because Rise of Isengard wasn't released until a year AFTER the conversion.

EQ2 is currently on it's 62nd game-wide update LotRO? 5. In fact, LotRO's list of game updates and release notes comes out to a whopping 77 articles total. There is a very large gap in the amount of content seperating EQ2 and LotRO, so why are we comparing the two again?

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Old 01-15-2012, 04:01 AM   #184
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Why are we even comparing LotRO to EQ2?

EQ2 has had 7 expansion packs and 3 adventure packs between the date of its initial release and F2P conversion. LotRO has had 2 expansion packs. Yes, only 2, because Rise of Isengard wasn't released until a year AFTER the conversion.

EQ2 is currently on it's 62nd game-wide update LotRO? 5. In fact, LotRO's list of game updates and release notes comes out to a whopping 77 articles total. There is a very large gap in the amount of content seperating EQ2 and LotRO, so why are we comparing the two again?

Because they use very similar F2P models.

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Old 01-15-2012, 04:25 AM   #185
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Ogremindes wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Why are we even comparing LotRO to EQ2?

EQ2 has had 7 expansion packs and 3 adventure packs between the date of its initial release and F2P conversion. LotRO has had 2 expansion packs. Yes, only 2, because Rise of Isengard wasn't released until a year AFTER the conversion.

EQ2 is currently on it's 62nd game-wide update LotRO? 5. In fact, LotRO's list of game updates and release notes comes out to a whopping 77 articles total. There is a very large gap in the amount of content seperating EQ2 and LotRO, so why are we comparing the two again?

Because they use very similar F2P models.

Do they? Weren't you just complaining in your previous post you'd rather spend 8 bucks for unlocking an area on your whole account, which EQ2 doesn't offer at all (in fact, they give you those areas minus DoV for FREE!), rather than 30 cents to unlock a piece of gear?

Doesn't sound too similar to me. Of course, if you're willing to pay to unlock 7 expansion and 3 adventure packs worth of areas and quest lines, I'm sure SoE would love to hear you out. That sounds like a lot of money to be made.

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Old 01-15-2012, 01:34 PM   #186
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In the Turbine model, you pay to access an area, once, but get all the gear from that zone, ever and on all toons.

In the SOE model, the zone is generally free, but any given gear drop or quest reward may be unequippable without payment ... and the non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it.

They are different models, but before endgame, SOE's just encourages me to shrug my shoulders, turn the unusable drop or quest reward into adorning mats and move on. Turbine's model is more successful in extracting money from me, as if I want to see more content, I need to give them more money to buy it ... but once it's bougth, it's bought, not rented.

SOE's model is about making a payment to buy away negative limitations, with some limitations set in concrete without a monthly rental payment. Turbine's model is about making payments to access new content.

Buying power for cash is a wash, with Turbine through selling rare drops like +stat tomes in the store, and SOE effectively selling rare drops by allowing trading plat for SC and allowing selling loot rights for plat, meaning you can easily turn cash into rare loot.

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Old 01-15-2012, 01:59 PM   #187
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They are now selling wings. That should tell how SOE is planning the twilight years (or year) for EQ2. I would be shocked if they touched the so called F2p system at this point.

With the addition of the wings, it should be crystal clear that F2p is not the model being used ..the wholesale fleecing of the playerbase is the model EQ2 is using.

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Old 01-15-2012, 02:10 PM   #188
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agnott wrote:

They are now selling wings. That should tell how SOE is planning the twilight years (or year) for EQ2. I would be shocked if they touched the so called F2p system at this point.

With the addition of the wings, it should be crystal clear that F2p is not the model being used ..the wholesale fleecing of the playerbase is the model EQ2 is using.

Just because someone is subscription, doesn't mean they get everything for free.  WoW does this as well (they sold a mount for $20 a while back.)  Welcome to the current world of MMOs. 

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Old 01-15-2012, 02:20 PM   #189
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Nolrog wrote:

agnott wrote:

They are now selling wings. That should tell how SOE is planning the twilight years (or year) for EQ2. I would be shocked if they touched the so called F2p system at this point.

With the addition of the wings, it should be crystal clear that F2p is not the model being used ..the wholesale fleecing of the playerbase is the model EQ2 is using.

Just because someone is subscription, doesn't mean they get everything for free.  WoW does this as well (they sold a mount for $20 a while back.)  Welcome to the current world of MMOs. 

That's p[ossibly one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen.

Just because someone is subscription, doesn't mean they get everything for free

If you pay a sub, you pay a sub you don't get stuff for free. that's what the word pay means ... A lot of us here don't like this direction at all and we will voice our concerns regardless of what a few freeloaders think.

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Old 01-15-2012, 03:14 PM   #190
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Tollymore wrote:

may be unequippable without payment ... and the non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it.

Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.

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Old 01-15-2012, 04:12 PM   #191
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Ogremindes wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

People keep comparing this to LotRO, saying they have a better model. I really don't know about that, since I've never gotten a character above level 20. And the last time I played, you had to buy the quests from level 20 on, and you also had to buy your riding skill. That turned me off. Is it still that way?

For the fist part, I have no experience (only level 1SMILEY, but it looks like free quests cap out a bit after 30. As for riding, the free cash shop points you get from deeds adds up enough to get the skill by level 20 (which is when you'd get it as a sub) without much hassle (you want the traits from deeds anyway).

I think of it as much friendlier than EQ2's because the stuff I want/need from the cash shop are all unlocks, mostly account level unlocks to boot. Spending 30 cents for the privilege of using one quest reward I just earned sucks. Spending 8 dollars to gain access a whole new area for all my characters forever is psychologically much better.

All you peeps ballyhooing about how great LoTRO's F2P is do realize that they sell statted gear in the marketplace now, right? 

*ducks for cover against the screaming hordes with pitchforks and torches*

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Old 01-15-2012, 10:47 PM   #192
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[email protected] wrote:

Ogremindes wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Why are we even comparing LotRO to EQ2?

EQ2 has had 7 expansion packs and 3 adventure packs between the date of its initial release and F2P conversion. LotRO has had 2 expansion packs. Yes, only 2, because Rise of Isengard wasn't released until a year AFTER the conversion.

EQ2 is currently on it's 62nd game-wide update LotRO? 5. In fact, LotRO's list of game updates and release notes comes out to a whopping 77 articles total. There is a very large gap in the amount of content seperating EQ2 and LotRO, so why are we comparing the two again?

Because they use very similar F2P models.

Do they? Weren't you just complaining in your previous post you'd rather spend 8 bucks for unlocking an area on your whole account, which EQ2 doesn't offer at all (in fact, they give you those areas minus DoV for FREE!), rather than 30 cents to unlock a piece of gear?

Doesn't sound too similar to me. Of course, if you're willing to pay to unlock 7 expansion and 3 adventure packs worth of areas and quest lines, I'm sure SoE would love to hear you out. That sounds like a lot of money to be made.

Actually, we are not comparing LotRO to EQ2, we are comparing LotRO's F2P system to EQ2's F2P system, which is an entirely different thing altogether. (Same game could have a different F2P, or different games could have the same, etc.)

And, not because they use similar F2P models, but exactly because they are two otherwise comparatively similar games, using comparatively different F2P.

And, yes, I tend to agree with Ogremindes that LotRO's model is friendlier, in that you can get access to zones there by means of a one-time payment, and after that the game is playable in a fairly normal way.

As for statted gear selling in the marketplace, what is to rule out its adoption here as well?

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Old 01-16-2012, 12:29 PM   #193
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Hallo. I am Leanomaa, and I am following up. It took 3+ days to get access to the forum, and then I got busy.

Anyhoo, I decided, despite my misgivings after the first 6 levels, to go ahead and try the game at one month of the Gold level. I kind of felt that if I wanted to get the picture I had to pay upfront. 

I wanted to check in to say that I definitely like the game, especially the openess of the guild system (found a great guild in 3 days). The setting, environment, and activity is fun. I would have missed a lot if I had not decided to gamble and try a 1-month sub after the limits to the F2P.

I guess my big point here would be that the current F2P is fairly limited - but might not seem so if there were a few more tutes easily found - about the banking (I 2 slots available but did not know you could put an expander bag in them), the craft items you can't actually craft with (until level 9 or 10?), the misc objects that you can't sell or do anything with (city market?), or the possibilities of the home, macros for abilities, etc.

Those things alone could help make the complexity that is EQII F2P easier to get thru in the first 10 levels. Overall, my past gameplay wit Lotro and other games helped some, but there were many niggling questions that I didn't feel I could do anything about in the F2P because a lot of the limitations on stuff was confusing and distracting. Perhaps having Silver Levell free to play for 2 full weeks would help more than the total piecemeal for noobs; old hands who want to go down to Silver of F2P should be okay, but to attract the noobs, even the much more noobish than me, at least the Silver for 2 uninterrupted weeks could be smoother. Then you hook 'em, and life is cool.

But, just wanted to join back in and say that I am glad I did pay the Gold so I could see the greater picture earlier on. It is a fun game and has a lot of interesting stuff to do. Hope to stay on a bit. :0)

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Old 01-16-2012, 01:42 PM   #194
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ljbnomad wrote:

Hallo. I am Leanomaa,

Welcome ~L ... hope you enjoy your stay.

As for the rest of you, thinking that anyone can fire up a F2P game, regardless of it's title or producer, and expecting to use all available features such as gear, land mass, quests is foolishness.  The F2P model allows people to expereince the game without committing a large cash investment.  There is a certain amount of that content available for that free access.  EQ2 provides much more content than any other title.  LOTR gives open access for a very limited lelev range and afterwards your paying, for everything.  EQ2 provides ten times the content and doesn't limit levels in anyway, but only 'power'.

Content (gear) not available to F2P toons is misleading.  Mostly becasue a toon would have already paids under other models just to experience that content, where here you only have to pay for what your toons values.  It's a totally different model and apporach.  LOTR, as example, is herding the players into a cash shop, EQ2 is really only offering one that isn't even required to expereince 85%+ of the content.

BTW, the F2P model is really only there to benefit three groups.  The "new" people to try it and test it.  The "Veterans" that have all the upgrades they desire via gear/spells/ca's that want to "coast" with less cost.  The Game producer that enjoys the profits from all the people in the middle that foolishly don't sub gold.

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Old 01-17-2012, 03:13 PM   #195
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FTP works for those, like me, who can't play everyday.  I can squeeze in 2 hours on Saturday and 2 hours on Sunday.  Have kids and other responsibilties.

I think the number of potential customers to Sony who are in my situation greatly out number the the quantity that can play everyday for even just 4-5 hours.

As long as I can progress through the game, and I can't group since I need to jump up and leave at a moments notice, I'm happy. 

Only thing I wish I could do is use the broker with my Silver account access.

And in all fairness I grandfathered in 4 toons where 3 of them are restricted classes and races....but I just opened a new account to play from scratch since I'm pretty out of touch with the game at this point!

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Old 01-17-2012, 03:44 PM   #196
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[email protected] wrote:

Tollymore wrote:

may be unequippable without payment ... and the non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it.

Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.

Not really. That's the gear restriction part of Free and Silver accounts: Free and Silver are restricted from equipping Legendary and Fabled gear. They can buy unlockers, but yes the restrictions do mean that Free and Silver players can run eg. the SF and DoV instances but not be able to immediately use the Legendary gear that'll drop in them.

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Old 01-17-2012, 03:56 PM   #197
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*checks to see if Dell has started giving away free servers -- nope*

*checks to see if sysadmins have started working full time jobs for free -- nope*

*checks to see if programmers and artists have started working full time jobs for free -- nope*

If you work all day how long would you stay there if they expected you to work for free?  Some people are independently wealthy or are supported by someone else (even if it's the government) but for most of us who have gotten into the habit of eating regularly it's out of the question.  We HAVE to charge for our services i.e. demand a paycheck.

The same for companies.

It costs a LOT to run a game like EQ2 even for just the day to day operations not even taking into account the development work for new content.  Yet some people expect Sony to just run it and give away their product for free thus eating the cost.  That is not a good way to stay in business.  And if Sony goes out of business EQ2 will shut down and then you won't be able to play at all.

SoE is being very generous with their current setup.  Yes they've made mistakes (who hasn't made mistakes) but they let you do a lot for free.  If you want more you're going to have to pitch in and put in some money to actually PAY for it.  If they're any more generous there will be no incentive for people to pay and the whole enterprise goes OUT of business.  No more play.

So if you don't like the limitations for playing for free then toss in some money and help pay for all this.  If you're not willing to help pay for it then you have no right to complain.   Be glad for what you got for free.

But I suppose you could give SoE the ultimatum that if they don't let your free account have access to more content you'll stop playing and costing them bandwidth.  Maybe that will work.

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Old 01-17-2012, 04:26 PM   #198
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Scotia_The_Great wrote:

Only thing I wish I could do is use the broker with my Silver account access.

As a Silver account you can buy from the broker, but not sell. If you want to sell, you buy tokens. They are 10 for 50sc, which really isn't that bad. Before the entire game went F2P my finances were tight so I played as Silver on EQ2X for a while. I bought enough SC to keep me in broker tokens and everything was peachy.

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Old 01-17-2012, 10:47 PM   #199
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Tollymore wrote:

may be unequippable without payment ... and the non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it.

Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.

Not really. That's the gear restriction part of Free and Silver accounts: Free and Silver are restricted from equipping Legendary and Fabled gear. They can buy unlockers, but yes the restrictions do mean that Free and Silver players can run eg. the SF and DoV instances but not be able to immediately use the Legendary gear that'll drop in them.

Well duh, I know how the gear system works, but apparently you dont know how velious works.. The point is that the solo quested treasured gear in Velious is instead legendary. There is NO treasured gear in velious. None. Therefore its selling a useless expansion without gold or unlockers, as 20 minutes into the solo part of the expansion you cannot beat even the solo mobs without crit mit gear. previous expansion treasured or MC will not avail you one bit.

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Old 01-18-2012, 12:27 AM   #200
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thesiren wrote:

All you peeps ballyhooing about how great LoTRO's F2P is do realize that they sell statted gear in the marketplace now, right? 

*ducks for cover against the screaming hordes with pitchforks and torches*

Sony dont need to sell statted gear - their players do it for them.

Let us say I have money, and I want statted gear. Sony wants this money.

I buy Station Cash cards off Sony for money. Sony now has the money. Sony is happy.

I sell those Station Cash cards for plat. Some other player later gives the SC to Sony for game time. They are happy.

I take that plat and buy Loot Rights. I now have statted gear to equip . I am happy.

Some other player now has plat to buy Station Cash cards with. They are happy.

Given Sony can get money by enabling the SC -> plat -> loot -> plat -> SC cycle, why create all the angst about "selling power" by selling statted gear directly, when you can just use players as intermediaries ?

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Old 01-18-2012, 02:00 PM   #201
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Tollymore wrote:

may be unequippable without payment ... and the non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it.

Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.

Not really. That's the gear restriction part of Free and Silver accounts: Free and Silver are restricted from equipping Legendary and Fabled gear. They can buy unlockers, but yes the restrictions do mean that Free and Silver players can run eg. the SF and DoV instances but not be able to immediately use the Legendary gear that'll drop in them.

Well duh, I know how the gear system works, but apparently you dont know how velious works.. The point is that the solo quested treasured gear in Velious is instead legendary. There is NO treasured gear in velious. None. Therefore its selling a useless expansion without gold or unlockers, as 20 minutes into the solo part of the expansion you cannot beat even the solo mobs without crit mit gear. previous expansion treasured or MC will not avail you one bit.

Apparently you don't know how velious works either.  

SoE removed the crit mit requirements a long time ago for DoV except for a select few upper heroic zones. (and of course you need crit mit for raids)

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Old 01-18-2012, 02:08 PM   #202
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Gilasil wrote:

*checks to see if Dell has started giving away free servers -- nope*

*checks to see if sysadmins have started working full time jobs for free -- nope*

*checks to see if programmers and artists have started working full time jobs for free -- nope*

If you work all day how long would you stay there if they expected you to work for free?  Some people are independently wealthy or are supported by someone else (even if it's the government) but for most of us who have gotten into the habit of eating regularly it's out of the question.  We HAVE to charge for our services i.e. demand a paycheck.

The same for companies.

It costs a LOT to run a game like EQ2 even for just the day to day operations not even taking into account the development work for new content.  Yet some people expect Sony to just run it and give away their product for free thus eating the cost.  That is not a good way to stay in business.  And if Sony goes out of business EQ2 will shut down and then you won't be able to play at all.

SoE is being very generous with their current setup.  Yes they've made mistakes (who hasn't made mistakes) but they let you do a lot for free.  If you want more you're going to have to pitch in and put in some money to actually PAY for it.  If they're any more generous there will be no incentive for people to pay and the whole enterprise goes OUT of business.  No more play.

So if you don't like the limitations for playing for free then toss in some money and help pay for all this.  If you're not willing to help pay for it then you have no right to complain.   Be glad for what you got for free.

But I suppose you could give SoE the ultimatum that if they don't let your free account have access to more content you'll stop playing and costing them bandwidth.  Maybe that will work.

^^^THIS!

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Old 01-18-2012, 03:44 PM   #203
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Slightly irritated that having bought the game in 2005 and played EQ1 before that then left for a bit I can now no longer play certain classes.  Like I bought a car and they took the electric windows away after I bought it.

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Old 01-18-2012, 03:54 PM   #204
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[email protected] wrote:

Slightly irritated that having bought the game in 2005 and played EQ1 before that then left for a bit I can now no longer play certain classes.  Like I bought a car and they took the electric windows away after I bought it.

 well, IRL if you bought a car in 2005 and quit paying the monthly bill they would have repo-ed the whole thing...at least all you lost were your 'windows'.

Pay the monthly fee and get everything back...just because you paid in 2005 doesn't mean you get the entire game in 2012 for free 'just because'...

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Old 01-18-2012, 04:03 PM   #205
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[email protected] wrote:

Slightly irritated that having bought the game in 2005 and played EQ1 before that then left for a bit I can now no longer play certain classes.  Like I bought a car and they took the electric windows away after I bought it.

If you cared enough to play those classes or races before you quit, seemingly for good at the time, they would have been grandfathered to use now.  If you didn't care about playing those classes or races before you quit, seemingly for good, why do you care now?

BTW, your analogy is pretty weak becase the car still has windows, but now with crank windows that take a little effort to use.  Try something like; When I use to work at the bus station I used the bathrooms for free, now that I quit that job and go to the bus station to use the bathroom I have to pay to use them ($.25 to use a toilet, $.20 for toiletpapper, $.10 to use the sink and $.15 to use a hand towel)

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Old 01-18-2012, 04:11 PM   #206
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Yeah, it does occur to me I would be less annoyed if SOE just said , no pay then no play.  So you could argue I should be grateful and shut up.

Those characters were not transferred, I think possibly because I removed them in a fit of trying to take part in society!

Not to worry, Im not going to go postal at SOE hq or anything.

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Old 01-18-2012, 04:56 PM   #207
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Tollymore wrote:

may be unequippable without payment ... and the non-free zone they sell does not include the gear within it.

Apart from the bolded part I prefer SOEs model by far. The bold part is a shocker.

Not really. That's the gear restriction part of Free and Silver accounts: Free and Silver are restricted from equipping Legendary and Fabled gear. They can buy unlockers, but yes the restrictions do mean that Free and Silver players can run eg. the SF and DoV instances but not be able to immediately use the Legendary gear that'll drop in them.

Well duh, I know how the gear system works, but apparently you dont know how velious works.. The point is that the solo quested treasured gear in Velious is instead legendary. There is NO treasured gear in velious. None. Therefore its selling a useless expansion without gold or unlockers, as 20 minutes into the solo part of the expansion you cannot beat even the solo mobs without crit mit gear. previous expansion treasured or MC will not avail you one bit.

Apparently you don't know how velious works either.  

SoE removed the crit mit requirements a long time ago for DoV except for a select few upper heroic zones. (and of course you need crit mit for raids)

Done Storm Gorge in pre-velious treasured recently? Let me know how that goes k?

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Old 01-18-2012, 05:26 PM   #208
Nrgy

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[email protected] wrote:

Yeah, it does occur to me I would be less annoyed if SOE just said , no pay then no play.  So you could argue I should be grateful and shut up.

Those characters were not transferred, I think possibly because I removed them in a fit of trying to take part in society!

Not to worry, Im not going to go postal at SOE hq or anything.

Really?  You'd be happier to have nothing than 20% of something?  So, if they were giving away money and had $100,000, you'd rather have none of it than a measily $20,000 for just stopping by?

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Old 01-18-2012, 05:44 PM   #209
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No, you miss my point , that is what I was saying, that my reaction (in one sense) was daft.

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Old 01-19-2012, 12:31 PM   #210
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I am a silver player and do not mind buying unlockers at higher levels. However, I recently created 2 new characters and started the level 20 quest armor with one of them to find the armor has been changed to legendary! I ended up just making them some mastercrafted and skipping the quests since I couldn't use the reward. It is ashame that f2p can't use the rewards from questing without unlocking it the majority of the time. And at lower levels it doesn't make sense to unlock items since leveling happens so quickly. It would make more sense to provide usuable rewards for all players under level 50 or 60 since the game is a questing game.

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