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Old 11-05-2012, 09:47 PM   #31
Frezzyisfuzzy

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Zoltaroth wrote:

I am happy to look at more of these, but the more detailed the info on the failure the faster I can run the tests and fix any bugs!

A couple quick ones for you:

#1 - In heroic Sleeper's Tomb, you always get the "You are in combat" message if you try to call someone in after killing the final named.  This has happened 100% of the times I've tried it, regardless of if/when I died.

#2 - In Plane of War, it nearly always (>90%) tells me I am still in combat if I revive following a wipe and try to call back to rez the raid.

If you're really serious about testing these, please try to recreate them as close as you can to realistic events.  Do it on a live server, and try to avoid using dev laser goggles and other tools that we can't use.

Also, how hard would it be to make the "check" for whether or not a person is in combat something simpler?  For example, keep whatever you have now, but add in another thing that if the person hasn't dealt damage, received damage, avoided an attack, and isn't grouped with anyone who has done those things in the last X seconds, then they get their combat flag removed.  Just make X whatever you consider reasonable (10-15 I think would be fine), and have it overwrite all other "in combat" indications within the game.

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Old 11-05-2012, 10:35 PM   #32
ZUES

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Zoltaroth wrote:

AinaFV wrote:

I've seen many a CoV bug.  One thing I've noticed is that it can be cause by an ineligibity flag that doesn't reset properly such as:

1)  If you are swimming when you invite someone to group, you are ineligible for CoV.  That ineligibity doesn't clear properly when you get out of the water until one or both of you zone.

2)  Flying on your own mount...read #1.

3)  Flying/riding on an NPC mount...read #1.

     (i.e. griffon ride in CL, pony ride in LFay, etc.)

4)  Standing on a bridge...read #1.

5)  Combat bug (script bug?)...read #1.

6)  Standing on a griffon (landing zone) platform...read#1.

To prevent the above bugs from occuring, I wait until I've finished all my riding, flying, swimming, etc. before inviting someone to group for CoV.  Still happens occassionally but nowhere near as much as it did before.

One final thought...

Of all the CoV bugs I've seen, I've never seen one weirder or more persistant than the Nektulos Forest bug.  If you want to leave Nek Forest with CoV, fine, it works.  But under no circumstances what so ever have I ever been able to CoV into Nektulos Forest.  I have tried on multiple accounts and between multiple toons.  I've tried brand new launches with no switching between alts and no swimming/flying/combat/etc.  Drives me crazy some days, dunno why it happens, but whatever bug it is, it appears to be zonewide. 

I promise I really want to fix every one of these bugs (as I stated at SOE Live).

That said, I tested a few of your listed failures (this take a long time without specific reproduction steps unfortunately):

1) Char A is in Nekforest in the River , Char B is in Commonlands in the River, Char A invites B

   1a) Char A COV Char B while in River - Works

1b) Char A COV Char B after existing River - Works

1c) Char B COV_TO Char A while Char A in River - Works

1d) Char B COV_TO Char A after Char A exists River - Works

2) Char A is in Nekforest flying on his personal flying mount, Char B is in Commonlands Char A invite Char B

2a) Works

2b) Works

2c) Works

2d) Works

I am happy to look at more of these, but the more detailed the info on the failure the faster I can run the tests and fix any bugs!

As the title of this thread suggests, it will work 75% of the time. I'm an alt-a-holic and I'm retired (at 38 yay!). I play this game from sun up to sun down most of the time. My two primary accounts have CoV and have had them for a very long time now. The events are random. I can't come up with any logical or specific reason why it decides not to work. Recent combat is a factor, of that I'm sure. But there are times when I log in after a weekend away from home and try to CoV an alt to a dungeon and it fails. No cambat, no nothing. Sorry but personally I have no advice to give you that would help you recreate CoV not working. I wish I could!

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Old 11-06-2012, 12:47 AM   #33
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It is *extremely* consistently broken in Sleepers Tomb.  Certainly after killing either of the CM mobs.  Cannot summon anyone, and noone can call to any of us.  Evacing always resets it. 

Just bury us in debug output, then we can tell you what the game is smoking when it tells us we're in combat...

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Old 11-06-2012, 12:32 PM   #34
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Just let us use it in combat until you figure it out. What's the big deal? If we are about to pull a target we only do so because we're confident we can kill it. What does it mater if someone joins us midfight? Last I checked you cant invite while in combat anyways. The only possible exploit I can think of is raids calling in needed classes at various stages of a long script. Find a way around it. Edit - Just rememberd pvp. Dammm you pvp!

On the other hand, 3 nights ago I logged in for a 2 box exp grind. Ran toon A out to destination, popped CoV and it failed to call toon B to my location. Just to test my theory I logged both toons off and logged a new set on. Same thing happened. Neither set was engaged in combat, nor had they been, for at least 24 hours.

It was nightime in Norrath. The zone was my guild hall to Vastly Deep. All four were different classes.

BTW as it's previously been stated, sometimes an evac will clear whatever is doing this. You can run back to where the CoV was cast and it works. But there are times when I wont test it because an evac means a long distance to travel.

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Old 11-06-2012, 03:28 PM   #35
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ZUES wrote:

Zoltaroth wrote:

AinaFV wrote:

I've seen many a CoV bug.  One thing I've noticed is that it can be cause by an ineligibity flag that doesn't reset properly such as:

1)  If you are swimming when you invite someone to group, you are ineligible for CoV.  That ineligibity doesn't clear properly when you get out of the water until one or both of you zone.

2)  Flying on your own mount...read #1.

3)  Flying/riding on an NPC mount...read #1.

     (i.e. griffon ride in CL, pony ride in LFay, etc.)

4)  Standing on a bridge...read #1.

5)  Combat bug (script bug?)...read #1.

6)  Standing on a griffon (landing zone) platform...read#1.

To prevent the above bugs from occuring, I wait until I've finished all my riding, flying, swimming, etc. before inviting someone to group for CoV.  Still happens occassionally but nowhere near as much as it did before.

One final thought...

Of all the CoV bugs I've seen, I've never seen one weirder or more persistant than the Nektulos Forest bug.  If you want to leave Nek Forest with CoV, fine, it works.  But under no circumstances what so ever have I ever been able to CoV into Nektulos Forest.  I have tried on multiple accounts and between multiple toons.  I've tried brand new launches with no switching between alts and no swimming/flying/combat/etc.  Drives me crazy some days, dunno why it happens, but whatever bug it is, it appears to be zonewide. 

I promise I really want to fix every one of these bugs (as I stated at SOE Live).

That said, I tested a few of your listed failures (this take a long time without specific reproduction steps unfortunately):

1) Char A is in Nekforest in the River , Char B is in Commonlands in the River, Char A invites B

   1a) Char A COV Char B while in River - Works

1b) Char A COV Char B after existing River - Works

1c) Char B COV_TO Char A while Char A in River - Works

1d) Char B COV_TO Char A after Char A exists River - Works

2) Char A is in Nekforest flying on his personal flying mount, Char B is in Commonlands Char A invite Char B

2a) Works

2b) Works

2c) Works

2d) Works

I am happy to look at more of these, but the more detailed the info on the failure the faster I can run the tests and fix any bugs!

As the title of this thread suggests, it will work 75% of the time. I'm an alt-a-holic and I'm retired (at 38 yay!). I play this game from sun up to sun down most of the time. My two primary accounts have CoV and have had them for a very long time now. The events are random. I can't come up with any logical or specific reason why it decides not to work. Recent combat is a factor, of that I'm sure. But there are times when I log in after a weekend away from home and try to CoV an alt to a dungeon and it fails. No cambat, no nothing. Sorry but personally I have no advice to give you that would help you recreate CoV not working. I wish I could!

Next time it is not working on live don't log out.  Email me with your server and name and I will log in and try to figure out what state you are in.

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Old 11-06-2012, 03:28 PM   #36
Zoltaroth

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[email protected] wrote:

It is *extremely* consistently broken in Sleepers Tomb.  Certainly after killing either of the CM mobs.  Cannot summon anyone, and noone can call to any of us.  Evacing always resets it. 

Just bury us in debug output, then we can tell you what the game is smoking when it tells us we're in combat...

Are you "at rest" or are you stuck in combat with the combat animations?

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Old 11-06-2012, 03:49 PM   #37
Zoltaroth

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Frezzyisfuzzy wrote:

Zoltaroth wrote:

I am happy to look at more of these, but the more detailed the info on the failure the faster I can run the tests and fix any bugs!

A couple quick ones for you:

#1 - In heroic Sleeper's Tomb, you always get the "You are in combat" message if you try to call someone in after killing the final named.  This has happened 100% of the times I've tried it, regardless of if/when I died.

#2 - In Plane of War, it nearly always (>90%) tells me I am still in combat if I revive following a wipe and try to call back to rez the raid.

If you're really serious about testing these, please try to recreate them as close as you can to realistic events.  Do it on a live server, and try to avoid using dev laser goggles and other tools that we can't use.

Also, how hard would it be to make the "check" for whether or not a person is in combat something simpler?  For example, keep whatever you have now, but add in another thing that if the person hasn't dealt damage, received damage, avoided an attack, and isn't grouped with anyone who has done those things in the last X seconds, then they get their combat flag removed.  Just make X whatever you consider reasonable (10-15 I think would be fine), and have it overwrite all other "in combat" indications within the game.

I ran through ST and wasn't able to get it to happen - doesn't mean that you are wrong it's just that the problem is something other than simply fighting the last boss - perhaps a spell he puts on you or something.  

Debugging on live while possible is just not really a good idea - I can get a much better idea of what is going on with my development server.  That said if you get in this state on live toss me an email and I will try to come look (if I am not in a meeting, etc).

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Old 11-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #38
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Someone reproed this for me on live (thanks for all the PMs!) and I think I know what the issue is - it may not be the only issue but it is definately one of the big ones.  I will try to get a fix in for it with next weeks update.

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:10 PM   #39
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Zoltaroth wrote:

Someone reproed this for me on live (thanks for all the PMs!) and I think I know what the issue is - it may not be the only issue but it is definately one of the big ones.  I will try to get a fix in for it with next weeks update.

Woot you're awesome Zoltaroth! Thank you kind sir! Beer for everybody... my treat! BARTENDER!

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:39 PM   #40
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ZUES wrote:

Zoltaroth wrote:

Someone reproed this for me on live (thanks for all the PMs!) and I think I know what the issue is - it may not be the only issue but it is definately one of the big ones.  I will try to get a fix in for it with next weeks update.

Woot you're awesome Zoltaroth! Thank you kind sir! Beer for everybody... my treat! BARTENDER!

Here is the case that I fixed this morning (it is entirely possible there are more cases but this was pretty common).

Char A and Char B are in ST Char C is outside.

Char A and Char B fight Ingolfa

Char B Dies

Adds Spawn and Force lock to the group (this locked even dead characters <- this was the bug)

Char A and Char B now have hate from the Adds

Char A kills Ingolfa

Char A has a clean hate list

Char B has "phantom" hate from the adds because his hatelist didn't think it needed cleaned up since he was dead.

Char B COV Char C => Failure.

As you can see these failures are sometimes pretty tricky to nail down.  It would also never happen soloing the zone.  Which is why it was so hard for me to reproduce on my development server.  The good news is that this was a bug that could have effected other things not just CoV and it is now fixed for everything.

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Old 11-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #41
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Zoltaroth wrote:

Adds Spawn and Force lock to the group (this locked even dead characters <- this was the bug)

Char B has "phantom" hate from the adds because his hatelist didn't think it needed cleaned up since he was dead.

Char B COV Char C => Failure.

As you can see these failures are sometimes pretty tricky to nail down.  It would also never happen soloing the zone.  Which is why it was so hard for me to reproduce on my development server.  The good news is that this was a bug that could have effected other things not just CoV and it is now fixed for everything.

 However, would this "phantom hate" last thru logging out for an entire weekend, logging in and CoV not working?

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Old 11-07-2012, 04:08 PM   #42
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ZUES wrote:

Zoltaroth wrote:

Adds Spawn and Force lock to the group (this locked even dead characters <- this was the bug)

Char B has "phantom" hate from the adds because his hatelist didn't think it needed cleaned up since he was dead.

Char B COV Char C => Failure.

As you can see these failures are sometimes pretty tricky to nail down.  It would also never happen soloing the zone.  Which is why it was so hard for me to reproduce on my development server.  The good news is that this was a bug that could have effected other things not just CoV and it is now fixed for everything.

 However, would this "phantom hate" last thru logging out for an entire weekend, logging in and CoV not working?

No - there is nothing that I can think of that would persist through a logout.  If you have reproducable steps that make that happen send them to me or post them here.

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Old 11-07-2012, 04:40 PM   #43
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Wish I knew a way to reproduce it but I don't. Promise if when it happens again I'll send you a message. Thanks for the replies man. This is a very old problem and we're just glad it's getting some attention!

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Old 11-07-2012, 07:04 PM   #44
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For the Nektulos issue it could be the plants that toss allergy attacks at you.  Zoltaroth tried in the river, but anywhere you may have walked by the plants could add you to a hate list.  At least that could explain an issue unique to that zone.

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:43 PM   #45
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Zoltaroth wrote:

As you can see these failures are sometimes pretty tricky to nail down.  It would also never happen soloing the zone.  Which is why it was so hard for me to reproduce on my development server.  The good news is that this was a bug that could have effected other things not just CoV and it is now fixed for everything.

I've been posting for years its related to the hate list cleanup =/

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:45 PM   #46
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Quote:
As you can see these failures are sometimes pretty tricky to nail down.  It would also never happen soloing the zone.  Which is why it was so hard for me to reproduce on my development server.

at least you learned not to test solo next time. SMILEY

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:52 PM   #47
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they should just make this to work in combat and all issues would be solved...so what if someone is fighting.. you can only use it once an hr anyway.. this will fix so many problems

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Old 11-08-2012, 04:27 AM   #48
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Here's a rather simple fix for CoV, in addition to cleaning up the hate list bug that Zoltaroth was awesome enough to fix. I'm going to do this in pseudocode, cause I program for a living:

Set AccessAllowedFlag = Yes

If CasterInCombat then

   Set AccessAllowedFlag = No

If RecipientInCombat then

   Set AccessAllowedFlag = No

If CasterFlying then -- we don't want anyone dying from CoV

   Set AccessAllowedFlag = No

If CasterUnderWater then -- we don't want anyone drowning with CoV

   Set AccessAllowedFlag = No

If CasterOnPlatform then -- see flying

   Set AccessAllowedFlag = No

Return AccessAllowedFlag

Notice nowhere did I check to see if either party had finished an access quest? That's because if one of the people is already in the zone, the other person should just be able to go into the zone. If either party is already in the zone, CoV should work. (Otherwise, no one should be able to enter a zone with an access quest unless the entire group has completed the access quest! Making us zone out, CoV, and then manually zone the person in is just silly.)

Notice that the default is for the call to work? That's because it's simpler that way.

Notice that I didn't nest any IF statements? That's because madness lies down that road!

Any other checks can work a similar way. It's not rocket science. Everyone reading this list can follow the logic.

Another thing I've noticed is that sometimes you are stuck in combat if you're fighting a group of creatures and an even number of them die all at once. It's like the creature dying toggles your combat flag undirectionally, and since there are two creatures it gets toggled off and then back on. Zoltaroth, I can reproduce this reliably pretty much at will if you want to check it out.

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Old 11-08-2012, 04:52 PM   #49
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Don't forget to check lockout timers SMILEY

And I'd have set a return code in each of those so the client could tell you specificaly why you were denied SMILEY

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