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Old 10-21-2012, 06:22 PM   #1
Detor

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I read online from somebody else (I guess they're actually at the SOE Live and heard more about this) that when EQ2Wire says 'Adjustment to Mentor Experience' what they mean is if you are mentoring or chrono'ed down to a lower level you no longer will get experience.  (only the person who you are mentoring will continue to get experience, and even then the person being mentored have to get on each mobs hate list or they won't get experience for it).

Is there anybody else at SOE Live that heard it described that way?  

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Old 10-21-2012, 08:24 PM   #2
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Alright, so I think I can answer this for you but don't quote me as I don't have the right link. The main adjustment to mentoring was announced that you must be on the hate list in order to gain xp, meaning that you couldn't dual box and just drag along a baby toon behind you and level up. You can still be mentored or chrono'ed, you just need to cast or at least be doing something on both. It was never mentioned that the one mentoring would not gain xp.

*And at panel the question was asked, "what if I'm grouped with a one-shotter and have no time to cast?", which I'm hoping someone can chime in and answer as I was in the way back to hear it.

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Old 10-21-2012, 09:02 PM   #3
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You may have more info than me, but eq2wires report can be interpreted a number of ways. It could be interpreted as "it will work as current but if you get on the hate list you'll get more xp". That way boxers at low levels can still get the same xp, but if you're actually contributing, you "loose the xp penalty". This would be good, but I may be optimistic in my interpretation.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:48 AM   #4
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Lizabethan wrote:

*And at panel the question was asked, "what if I'm grouped with a one-shotter and have no time to cast?", which I'm hoping someone can chime in and answer as I was in the way back to hear it.

That's too bad! This is what I'm most curious about. I really want to know what happens to those of us who are not boxing but still playing with a player who one-shots everything. I mean, I'm playing, I'm there... shouldn't I get full credit for the encounter? I may not be able to hit everything because of slower-casting spells, but I'm still there trying to contribute. It's especially hard when grouping with say, a tank who rounds up a collection of mobs, and you have to wait to cast spells unless you want to gank aggro and die, thus losing out on the entire group's worth of XP anyway.Now just from what I have heard, mentored characters will not get credit for green-conned mobs. White, yellow, orange, and red will still let the mentored person gain xp. Someone correct me if I'm wrong - I just heard this from a guildie who read an article about the changes.

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Old 10-22-2012, 08:00 AM   #5
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I really hope it's not true that you will get no experience, or no experience for greens. I've been using mentoring to level a lot - not powerlevelling, exactly, more like fixing old, neglected characters. For instance, I have a level 87 coercer with 177 AAs. I would level her by mentoring one of my boyfriend's alts - that way he gets extra xp, I get to sort out my neglected character while at the same time enjoying low level stuff that I might have missed on the way up.

That's how my previously abandoned swashbuckler (who was my main during EoF) got from level 75 to 92 - by mentoring my boyfriend's new inquisitor. Thanks to mentoring, we now have a maxxed out swashie and a maxxed out inquisitor, who did all that together as a mentored duo. It was fun, too. I thought we were meant to "play our way", not "play your way, as long as you are not mentored and the mobs aren't green". Grey means no xp, green means xp. Why mess up a system that is so simple and works fine?

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:55 AM   #6
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Wonder if no exp for green if mentored also means no loot drops for green if mentored.  This may be them attempting to stop people from chronoing to that exact level to reap rewards for soloing raid zones.

I don't know what the situation is, and they haven't come out to clarify yet, but my tinfoil hat is in place.

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Old 10-22-2012, 10:36 AM   #7
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When they did this to conjis and necros, it failed miserably and they had to back it out.

What makes them believe they will get a better response on it when it affects players?

This is aimed at boxers, but will kill the mentor system completely.  Non-mentored people can't even get a hit in before the mob is dead often.  I wish they played the game or at least knew people that did.

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Old 10-22-2012, 11:01 AM   #8
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They try to eliminate the box players but do forget about healers ^^, at least if i do play my healingclass, i more often dont hit the mob.

I dont even understand why they try to limit the possibility to box anyhow, as that means more accounts per user, more profit SMILEY

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Old 10-22-2012, 11:29 AM   #9
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Zergosch wrote:

They try to eliminate the box players but do forget about healers ^^, at least if i do play my healingclass, i more often dont hit the mob.

I dont even understand why they try to limit the possibility to box anyhow, as that means more accounts per user, more profit

I don't play healers, but if you heal someone on the hate list doesn't that put you on the hate list?

So if you can't hit something at least once per fight can you at least toss some diddly heal on someone who's hitting the mob whether they need it or not?  Something.  Also, do buffs count?  Maybe someone more familiar with healers could better say what would and would not put you on the hate list.  And if no one in the group really needs heals because the mobs are so easy, maybe you should be in there swinging.

I know this isn't going to be popular on this thread, but I'm glad they're starting to deal with mentoring.  It's become worthless for it's intended goal (experiencing lower level content as if you were of that level) and is only used as a powerleveling exploit.  Chroning made it worse since it meant you didn't even have to drag a low level along with you.

I can't just mentor a level 92 to 20 and go in and play Stormhold as if I were really a level 20.  I'd be one shotting everything.  Yet that was the purpose of mentoring.

I don't think they've ever tried to support boxing.  EQ2 isn't that kind of a game.  They haven't expressly forbidden it but I don't see them putting in features to support it.  I suspect their policy is that if you want to box and don't exploit that's fine, but you're on your own and don't expect them to design the game for that style of play.

So if you want to level a second toon by dragging it around with you, that toon is going to have to do something.  Which I think is reasonable.  If you want to level you have to actually DO something.  What's wrong with that?

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Old 10-22-2012, 11:50 AM   #10
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Gilasil wrote:

I don't play healers, but if you heal someone on the hate list doesn't that put you on the hate list?...

You are correct, it 'should' work that way.  However, look at PQ history, healers do not always get credit for heals on the hate list and are denied rewards.

Healers will get the shaft on this unless they are DPSing as well.

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Old 10-22-2012, 12:24 PM   #11
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it does sound like people in non power levelling groups will miss out on xp sometimes, if i read it right. It's going to be difficult getting something in on every monster, well at the relatively lower levels (where i am), i dont know what its like at 90+ but my 77 wizard can one shot things his level or a couple above with ice comet. If other dps classes are just as powerful then the none dps classes are probably going to miss out on quite a bit of xp that they used to get.

Even my class might suffer, if melees are killing monsters before he's managed to fire a spell.

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Old 10-22-2012, 01:54 PM   #12
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bucketon wrote:

it does sound like people in non power levelling groups will miss out on xp sometimes, if i read it right. It's going to be difficult getting something in on every monster, well at the relatively lower levels (where i am), i dont know what its like at 90+ but my 77 wizard can one shot things his level or a couple above with ice comet. If other dps classes are just as powerful then the none dps classes are probably going to miss out on quite a bit of xp that they used to get.

Even my class might suffer, if melees are killing monsters before he's managed to fire a spell.

In general I'd think that the non-PL groups would be least likely to miss out as they won't be fighting trivial monsters.  Or at least I hope they won't.  If you have to beat on a mob for a minute to make it die most likely everyone will end up on the hate list.

As for the one shotters yes that could be a problem.  First of all, what's the recycle of Ice Comet?  Can you use it every fight?  Missing out on experience for a few percent of the mobs probably won't be a problem.  It probably won't even be noticed.

Other dps classes may indeed be able to do one shots on a fairly regular basis IF they're fighting trivial mobs.  The only DPS class I'm familiar with is beastlord (currently have 3 at various levels on various servers) which is probably a good candidate for one shotting.  However, even with them, if I'm fighting non-trivial mobs the only time I really might one shot them regularly is large heroic groups with lots of no arrow or down arrow mobs.  Or, for my level 92, if I'm doing content which isn't current (i.e. isn't SS/WL).  But again, for that 92, anything which it can one shot is probably trivial.

If I hit a mob hard with a primal and am lucky I suppose I could one shot a heroic which isn't supposed to be trivial, but I won't be able to do it on every mob.  Not even close.  Oh yes, in the SS solo instances I can one shot up arrow mobs regularly, but those things are WAY underpowered and, as the name implies, those are solo instances.  Someone else shouldn't be coming along with me.

But unless they change something, I suspect that the best way to make sure everyone gets experience is to go after non-trivial mobs.  Mobs you have to work at to kill.  I'd think that would be more fun too.

Maybe they'll come up with something more assured too, although the more I think about it, the more I think that this shouldn't be a big problem if you're not fighting something which is trivial.

Finally, if healers aren't being put on the hate list when they should be that is a bug.  The devs need to get that bug fixed ASAP.  No putting something like that on the back burner. Do it.  I'm sure that before this healers would have had no problem with not being on the hate list (except for those PQs) which may be why they haven't fixed it yet.  This may change things.

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Old 10-22-2012, 04:41 PM   #13
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Hey guys. Just chiming in to address confusion on this.

You will still get experience if you're not on the hatelist.

You just won't get as much as you would have if you were able to contribute. The change makes it so you get experience to that of soloing if you are able to contribute to the battle. If not, you will still get the same amount (that of a N-sized group).

So in essence, this just means for you that you are getting the chance at even more exp in situations where you're able to help kill the mob.

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Old 10-22-2012, 04:43 PM   #14
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That makes more sense. My fault for not hearing correctly SMILEY

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:01 PM   #15
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Yay my interpretation was right
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:10 PM   #16
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CoLD MeTaL wrote:

Gilasil wrote:

I don't play healers, but if you heal someone on the hate list doesn't that put you on the hate list?...

You are correct, it 'should' work that way.  However, look at PQ history, healers do not always get credit for heals on the hate list and are denied rewards.

Healers will get the shaft on this unless they are DPSing as well.

Your heal will not tick on them when they one shot kill things.

If a creature is one-shot killed, under the new system, only the person that did the one shot gets xp bonus.

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:14 PM   #17
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No it won't, read the dev post
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Old 10-22-2012, 05:20 PM   #18
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Regolas wrote:

No it won't, read the dev post

I did.

Only people on the hate list get the full xp, people not on the hate list get the old xp value.

tldr;

This fix to group xp doesn't actually fix the problem, cause if I'm powerleveling someone, adding more players will still lower the xp the power level target receives.

They totally failed to comprehend the problem and provide a working sollution.

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:35 PM   #19
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Regolas wrote:

No it won't, read the dev post

I did.

Only people on the hate list get the full xp, people not on the hate list get the old xp value.

tldr;

This fix to group xp doesn't actually fix the problem, cause if I'm powerleveling someone, adding more players will still lower the xp the power level target receives.

They totally failed to comprehend the problem and provide a working sollution.

And in the process castrated dual-boxers

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:47 PM   #20
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While initially I was against this change, due to misinterpreting the statement, the mor eI think about it, the more this sounds like it will be amazing!

Thank yuo for the clarification Terrogaunt!

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:56 PM   #21
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They are doing this cause they never intended for people to be able to just mentor down and own everything and get great xp. I applaud it.

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:57 PM   #22
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Geothe wrote:

And in the process castrated dual-boxers

Not sure how you got that conclusion out of the info.

If you're on one toon dragging another toon, nothing changes from the way it works today.  How is working exactly the same castrating dual-boxers?

If you occasionally press a button on the other toon, when you do, for that fight, that toon and the toon dragging it around both get 100% of the xp from the fight instead of a percentage.

I don't understand your conclusion.

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Old 10-22-2012, 05:58 PM   #23
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[email protected] wrote:

They are doing this cause they never intended for people to be able to just mentor down and own everything and get great xp. I applaud it.

You are mistaken, after this change we'll be able to mentor down and get the same XP we always got.  Just those participating in a level appropriate group will get more XP.

We still have the same old problem, that if I'm mentored down and PLing a toon, I'm still going to steal the entire zone from a level appropriate group.  And the game is still designed such that I'm penalyzed for inviting anyone else into my group while I'm PLing.

They really failed to fix the issues at hand.

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:04 PM   #24
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Terrogaunt wrote:

You will still get experience if you're not on the hatelist.

You just won't get as much as you would have if you were able to contribute. The change makes it so you get experience to that of soloing if you are able to contribute to the battle. If not, you will still get the same amount (that of a N-sized group).

In a lot of cases I guess this means the changes won't even come into play. I've had it happen in Stonebrunt Highlands. I've got my level 90 'zerker mentored down to 88 helping a friend finish the questlines. My 'zerker's not even in serious raid gear, just Ry'gorr and ToFS x2 jewelry and weapons. Overpowered for the zone, but not ridiculously so. Yet I'm one-shotting mobs left and right, and my friend's losing literally 75% of the quest updates because the mobs are dying too fast and too far away for her to get credit. And not the early mobs, the stuff for the later quest hubs like Deepwater Pavilion and Marred Plateau. I literally had to stop attacking, pulling mobs by taunting and keeping my back to them until my friend had a chance to get something in before I actually hit the mob, to let her get quest updates reliably.

I look at this change and that glitch and shudder at how they're going to interact.

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:05 PM   #25
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Ulrichvon wrote:

You are mistaken

That is what they told us when they annouced it.

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:09 PM   #26
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[email protected] wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

You are mistaken

That is what they told us when they annouced it.

Well, if the dev response earlier in this thread is accurate, they either lied when the announced it or they've already backtracked on it.

But Terror's response in this thread is very clear that the system continues to work the same for players that don't contribute to the kill, but now if a player is grouped and does contribute they get full xp rather than a subset of xp.

To me, its a big miss, cause if I was PLing one of my toons, and I invite more people, it still means my PL toon gets far less xp cause I invited another person to group.  So leveling up remains a completely anti-social behavior that I'm penalized for allowing anyone to join in my group.

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:37 PM   #27
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Ulrichvon wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

You are mistaken

That is what they told us when they annouced it.

Well, if the dev response earlier in this thread is accurate, they either lied when the announced it or they've already backtracked on it.

But Terror's response in this thread is very clear that the system continues to work the same for players that don't contribute to the kill, but now if a player is grouped and does contribute they get full xp rather than a subset of xp.

To me, its a big miss, cause if I was PLing one of my toons, and I invite more people, it still means my PL toon gets far less xp cause I invited another person to group.  So leveling up remains a completely anti-social behavior that I'm penalized for allowing anyone to join in my group.

When experience was mentioned with mentoring, that was referring to encounter bonus. You'll still get the experience from the kill, but not the bonuses from defeating the spawn's encounter if you're mentoring someone. The other players who were on the hate list (and aren't mentored down) will still get that encounter bonus.

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Old 10-22-2012, 06:56 PM   #28
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Terrogaunt wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Ulrichvon wrote:

You are mistaken

That is what they told us when they annouced it.

Well, if the dev response earlier in this thread is accurate, they either lied when the announced it or they've already backtracked on it.

But Terror's response in this thread is very clear that the system continues to work the same for players that don't contribute to the kill, but now if a player is grouped and does contribute they get full xp rather than a subset of xp.

To me, its a big miss, cause if I was PLing one of my toons, and I invite more people, it still means my PL toon gets far less xp cause I invited another person to group.  So leveling up remains a completely anti-social behavior that I'm penalized for allowing anyone to join in my group.

When experience was mentioned with mentoring, that was referring to encounter bonus. You'll still get the experience from the kill, but not the bonuses from defeating the spawn's encounter if you're mentoring someone. The other players who were on the hate list (and aren't mentored down) will still get that encounter bonus.

So, in summary, is this right?

Normal group, nobody is mentoring or being mentored: Miss getting on a mob's hate list and you get the same experience you always would have, get on the mob's hate list however and your experience is no longer being split by the number of group members - you get experience as if you soloed the mob.

If you are mentored: You get less experience when mentored than before (no encounter bonus anymore, so that reduces mentor experience by about 75% from where it is now if you fail to get on the mob's hate list, (I think the experience bonus for an encounter is 300% of what an individual mob gives right?), but if you get on the mob's hate list than you aren't splitting experience so you come out about 25% ahead of where you do currently.  Does that all sound right?

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Old 10-22-2012, 07:44 PM   #29
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Terrogaunt wrote:

When experience was mentioned with mentoring, that was referring to encounter bonus. You'll still get the experience from the kill, but not the bonuses from defeating the spawn's encounter if you're mentoring someone. The other players who were on the hate list (and aren't mentored down) will still get that encounter bonus.

You guys should take this back to the board, this is way, waaay, waaaaaay too complicated of a system.  I would have to make a power point presentation to explain all the xp mechanics to a noobie.

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Old 10-22-2012, 07:58 PM   #30
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Ulrichvon wrote:

Terrogaunt wrote:

When experience was mentioned with mentoring, that was referring to encounter bonus. You'll still get the experience from the kill, but not the bonuses from defeating the spawn's encounter if you're mentoring someone. The other players who were on the hate list (and aren't mentored down) will still get that encounter bonus.

You guys should take this back to the board, this is way, waaay, waaaaaay too complicated of a system.  I would have to make a power point presentation to explain all the xp mechanics to a noobie.

could be argued that it doesnt matter how complicated it is, as long as it works.

I am still concerned that non dps characters, and dps characters that have non instant damage (usually magic) are going to gain less xp than run in and hit type characters though.

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