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Old 11-27-2007, 04:26 AM   #1
Moza

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**EDIT - changed the title to reflect the thread being more a general feedback re: RoD than my initial post which apparently was a just before beta release change by SoE. 

Two bugs - one that is probably a nerf by SoE without wide broadcast so fine, leave that up for a later fix, if ever, since with a roughly 5sec cast time I dont know any raid wizard that's going to cast this now with other better dps optimal nukes to use. But the second bug that I'd like to bring to attention is that IF SoE wants to nerf this down, then they HAVE to change how the recast functionality works to be like any other normal cast time spell.

Specifically, I read and see the spell description for my adept3 Rays of Disintegration which says:

power: 371

casting: instant

recovery: instant

recast: 1min 48sec (I have agil aa line that reduces the normal timer plus some recast reduction gear)

Ok -- bug#1 that might be the silent SoE nerf: It takes about 5sec to cast this spell, not sure of exact time but it takes longer than the 3.38sec Ice Nova I have so it feels like 4.5 to 5sec or so. I have agil line speeding cast to 14% spell haste, plus a few 1% cast reduction items I've picked up in RoK as an fyi to my 3.38sec Ice Nova. Sp fine, maybe that's SoE's new nerf to this ability so the other spell casters dont cry foul when we interrupt them, making it no longer an instant cast. Let's leave that huge debate aside and settle elsewhere.

My specific real complaint and notice here, is bug#2 - on ANY kind of spell failure, say an interrupt because you had to move while trying to cast it, got kickback, knockdown aoe, etc. - the spell counts as being used even though you never got a chance to fire it off and the full recast timer starts. 

Heck, even if you merely TRY and cast it but are out of range to your target - the spell will show as being used and the full recast timer will trigger.

So it appears because the game mechanics still thinks it is an "INSTANT" cast spell, it figures there's no way you could have failed to fire off the spell the microsecond you hit the cast button. So whether you get interrupted during the ~5sec cast time, or if you are out of range (that one seems pretty dumb), the full recast timer starts.

So please SoE, whether you change the time to cast to something shorter to make this thing worth even casting, at the very least fix it so that it works like any other timed cast spell - any failure to cast like an interrupt shouldnt count as a success and get the full recast timer going. Similarly, I havent tested a resist of it yet, but I suspect give this bugged game mechanic of charging you the full recast time no matter what, that if I fire this off and some mob resists it, I would bet it still charges me the full recast timer rather than letting me cast it again after a brief cooldown like any other spell.

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Old 11-27-2007, 09:07 AM   #2
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Sounds like the spell is fubared. I hope they fix it soon.
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Old 11-27-2007, 09:10 AM   #3
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Mozaic wrote:
bug#1 that might be the silent SoE nerf: It takes about 5sec to cast this spell, not sure of exact time but it takes longer than the 3.38sec Ice Nova I have so it feels like 4.5 to 5sec or so. I have agil line speeding cast to 14% spell haste, plus a few 1% cast reduction items I've picked up in RoK as an fyi to my 3.38sec Ice Nova. Sp fine, maybe that's SoE's new nerf to this ability so the other spell casters dont cry foul when we interrupt them, making it no longer an instant cast. Let's leave that huge debate aside and settle elsewhere.

bug#2 - on ANY kind of spell failure, say an interrupt because you had to move while trying to cast it, got kickback, knockdown aoe, etc. - the spell counts as being used even though you never got a chance to fire it off and the full recast timer starts. 

Heck, even if you merely TRY and cast it but are out of range to your target - the spell will show as being used and the full recast timer will trigger.

So it appears because the game mechanics still thinks it is an "INSTANT" cast spell, it figures there's no way you could have failed to fire off the spell the microsecond you hit the cast button. So whether you get interrupted during the ~5sec cast time, or if you are out of range (that one seems pretty dumb), the full recast timer starts.

About bug 1, it's probably marked as "instant" cast since as soon as U hit it's instantly start effecting the mages in your grp since they instantly get interrupted in anything they did and start casting the spell instantly, but yes it's really confusing and I agree in that it has a bloody long casting time.About bug 2, if U get interrupted or the spell get resisted the recast timer starts because the spell is not only about the wizard, but about all the other mages in the grp and since the interrupt part took place and they may cast it successfully U get the recast time on it, or it could be easily exploited (imagine that U start it then move to interrupt yourself and cast it again making your mages constantly keep nuking with 6-7k - sometimes with 10-11k crits - in your grp).So, non of them bug, just confusing texting on the spell description and the other is game mechanic.On the other hand I totally agree on that the wizards would deserve something else. Not a spell with long recast/cast time rather with the fact that using it may abuse other mages in the grp. A self buff which reduces casting/recast timers or even a single target nuke with a short cast/recast timer would be better. Casting times are an issue atm for the wizards and SoE not seems to do anything about it. Seems the difference between wiz and scouts gets wider after every update/expansion SMILEY
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:14 PM   #4
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I'm still playing with this spell, still trying to figure out the best way to use it. It works great for me, but then again I know exactly when I'm going to cast it. I've made a group macro "Rays in 5" and i hit that then cast bolt of ice, BoM then queue Rays. Even then, with the interrupt + looooong cast time every mage I've been in group with isn't exactly pleased with it. Even though I've seen 12K+ crits (dispatched FTW). I think this spell is awesome, but would love to see the time each mage takes to cast it reduced in duration to somewhere along the lines of Velium Gift's. Keep the interrupt and the recast timer the same.  Or keep the cast time and have each mage queue the spell  (losing the interrupt).
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:45 PM   #5
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As i've said elsewhere, it isn't bugged. Think of it more as a group buff  that gets applied when you hit the spell, instead of a straight nuke as you're used to.
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:41 PM   #6
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After reading all posts in this thread, I must simply conclude that the OP hasn't read the spell text. The issues the OP refers to as "bugs" are simply misunderstandings of how the spell works.The spell Rays of Disintegration IS instant cast. However, the spell that this group wide spell makes all mages in your group cast, called Ray of Disintegration, is not. It takes around 4 seconds to cast, without modificers. The difference between the names of these spell is only an "s", but they are very different, since Rays O D affects all mages in the group and makes them cast a Ray O D each.As far as I can see the only problem with this spell, is that it does too little damage and it interupts group members instead of simply queuing the spell for them, wasting precious casting time if another spell is almost done casting. That, however, is a completely different discussion.One might argue, that folowing the color convention used by SoE on all other spells, the background color on the spell should be blue instead of red, since, like Velium Gift, it is actually a beneficial spell, affecting group members.
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Old 11-27-2007, 01:44 PM   #7
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If it takes 5 secs for all the mages to cast the spell then the spell is close to worthless. /raid chat you say "Excuse me, casting RoD! You'll have to put your spell rotation on hold for 5 secs while you cast a lame damage spell"Yeah if I got interrupted for 5 secs by another wiz while I was casting Ice Nova/Fusion I would be [Removed for Content]. If it is working as intended then this spell blows. SMILEY
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:20 PM   #8
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Kamelkurt wrote:
After reading all posts in this thread, I must simply conclude that the OP hasn't read the spell text. The issues the OP refers to as "bugs" are simply misunderstandings of how the spell works.The spell Rays of Disintegration IS instant cast. However, the spell that this group wide spell makes all mages in your group cast, called Ray of Disintegration, is not. It takes around 4 seconds to cast, without modificers. The difference between the names of these spell is only an "s", but they are very different, since Rays O D affects all mages in the group and makes them cast a Ray O D each.As far as I can see the only problem with this spell, is that it does too little damage and it interupts group members instead of simply queuing the spell for them, wasting precious casting time if another spell is almost done casting. That, however, is a completely different discussion.One might argue, that folowing the color convention used by SoE on all other spells, the background color on the spell should be blue instead of red, since, like Velium Gift, it is actually a beneficial spell, affecting group members.

Um...before concluding I, the OP, hasnt read the spell, have you even TRIED to cast this spell as of yesterday? It's changed, hence my post.

While testing on Beta, and shortly after when we went live (beta was still up with the latest live changes), the spell WAS instant cast as far as the wizard was concerned. You hit RoD and wham...instant application and you could move on to the next spell in your queue - it was just like hitting freehand sorc - instant cast and you could proceed to your next spell. I stopped testing on beta about a week before launch but up till then, that's how it worked there. Repeat - there was no approx ~5sec cast time for the wizard - you hit RoD, boom, dmg part hit.

Now on live today - I'm not sure when after RoK launched this changed since I obviously needed to level up to 80 first (vs the 80 Beta buffed toon I had) but it did change since those first few days after RoK launched, even though the spell description is exactly what it read when I last saw it on Beta and worked as described as instant cast.

When you initiate RoD now, there is an approx 5sec cast time for RoD to trigger for yourself as the wizard since it seems to now count you, the wizard, as one of the puppet mages - so only AFTER this 5sec cast time does all the affected mages (including yourself) fire off the actual RoD dmg portion. To repeat again, the spell still has the exact same description, but that's not how it worked before. So yes, I have read the spell desc, yes I have tested it since a few days after Beta was launched (my guild was invited in it's entirety to help test RoK raids so we were all beta buffed to 80 early on after Beta launch), and as far as the description its still the same.

The way I see the game mechanics now, it treats the wizard as one of the affected mages, whether solo or grouped or raid - meaning while before the instant cast was wiz = instant, and your puppets initially got to do instant cast too (early in beta, then it was changed to a timed cast for your puppets), now even the wizard goes through cast time. That's fine if SoE wants to nerf it that way, or just call it a change - but then change the description. I used this spell solo, group, and in t8 beta raiding Chardok and the spell desc there is exactly the same as it reads right now on live - but the effect it has is no longer instant as far as the wizard is concerned.

If that's how SoE wants it, that's one thing. But before you allege I didnt read the spell description - where were you in Beta? Have you seen the evolution of this spell? And if so, how could you possibly have missed that when launched this spell WAS instant cast as described in the spell text for the wizard at least.

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Old 11-27-2007, 03:23 PM   #9
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I have yet to use this in group but it does seem to be painful to use and of little benifit.  I would rather they gave us a big nuke that was magic or electrical based.
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Old 11-27-2007, 03:26 PM   #10
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If this spell takes 10 second to cast twice 5 sec for the 10k damage it pops its just pointless to use as it will only [Removed for Content] off other mages and lower dps as a 10 sec with 0 dps will make the parse-o-meter drop quite a few notches...Not 80 yet but with all this talk, not really in a hurry to get there and test it myself ;(Id say cut cast time for the buff part to instant and the spell cast to 3.5s and x2 the damage (20k a pop would be WAY more on par with an end game lvl 80 ability) Not like wizards don't need some luvin dps wise (ever tried to make the parse without a troub + illy buffs ?)
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Old 11-27-2007, 05:53 PM   #11
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Mozaic wrote:
Kamelkurt wrote:
After reading all posts in this thread, I must simply conclude that the OP hasn't read the spell text. The issues the OP refers to as "bugs" are simply misunderstandings of how the spell works.The spell Rays of Disintegration IS instant cast. However, the spell that this group wide spell makes all mages in your group cast, called Ray of Disintegration, is not. It takes around 4 seconds to cast, without modificers. The difference between the names of these spell is only an "s", but they are very different, since Rays O D affects all mages in the group and makes them cast a Ray O D each.As far as I can see the only problem with this spell, is that it does too little damage and it interupts group members instead of simply queuing the spell for them, wasting precious casting time if another spell is almost done casting. That, however, is a completely different discussion.One might argue, that folowing the color convention used by SoE on all other spells, the background color on the spell should be blue instead of red, since, like Velium Gift, it is actually a beneficial spell, affecting group members.

Um...before concluding I, the OP, hasnt read the spell, have you even TRIED to cast this spell as of yesterday? It's changed, hence my post.

While testing on Beta, and shortly after when we went live (beta was still up with the latest live changes), the spell WAS instant cast as far as the wizard was concerned. You hit RoD and wham...instant application and you could move on to the next spell in your queue - it was just like hitting freehand sorc - instant cast and you could proceed to your next spell. I stopped testing on beta about a week before launch but up till then, that's how it worked there. Repeat - there was no approx ~5sec cast time for the wizard - you hit RoD, boom, dmg part hit.

Now on live today - I'm not sure when after RoK launched this changed since I obviously needed to level up to 80 first (vs the 80 Beta buffed toon I had) but it did change since those first few days after RoK launched, even though the spell description is exactly what it read when I last saw it on Beta and worked as described as instant cast.

When you initiate RoD now, there is an approx 5sec cast time for RoD to trigger for yourself as the wizard since it seems to now count you, the wizard, as one of the puppet mages - so only AFTER this 5sec cast time does all the affected mages (including yourself) fire off the actual RoD dmg portion. To repeat again, the spell still has the exact same description, but that's not how it worked before. So yes, I have read the spell desc, yes I have tested it since a few days after Beta was launched (my guild was invited in it's entirety to help test RoK raids so we were all beta buffed to 80 early on after Beta launch), and as far as the description its still the same.

The way I see the game mechanics now, it treats the wizard as one of the affected mages, whether solo or grouped or raid - meaning while before the instant cast was wiz = instant, and your puppets initially got to do instant cast too (early in beta, then it was changed to a timed cast for your puppets), now even the wizard goes through cast time. That's fine if SoE wants to nerf it that way, or just call it a change - but then change the description. I used this spell solo, group, and in t8 beta raiding Chardok and the spell desc there is exactly the same as it reads right now on live - but the effect it has is no longer instant as far as the wizard is concerned.

If that's how SoE wants it, that's one thing. But before you allege I didnt read the spell description - where were you in Beta? Have you seen the evolution of this spell? And if so, how could you possibly have missed that when launched this spell WAS instant cast as described in the spell text for the wizard at least.

Because it was broken on beta, and not working as intended. It was fixed with the launch of ROK.
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Old 11-27-2007, 06:10 PM   #12
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Mozaic wrote:
 I'm not sure when after RoK launched this changed since I obviously needed to level up to 80 first (vs the 80 Beta buffed toon I had) but it did change since those first few days after RoK launched, even though the spell description is exactly what it read when I last saw it on Beta and worked as described as instant cast.
Initially, this was a known bug in beta. You would cast RoD and it would be "guaranteed" to go through in 4 seconds... reguardless of what anyone else did. This was a huge hindrance for PvPers, since this essentially meant that at the end of the countdown, they were guaranteed to get hit. Also, Since it was "insta-cast" you were free to do any other spell in your book while ROD kept going in the background... obviously not intended. A week or so before release it was placed the way it is now. If you have a group filled with mage classes, then the min damage of a master RoD with 1k int is very close to 30k. So this spells is not for "Wizard" dps, but more for overall raid dps. However, I do agree that most caster classes are able to do more than 5k damage during a 5 second period... so this spell will take the back burner on my spell cycle unless there is a specific reason to use it. IMO, this spell should do 10k per mage in the group, if its going to take 5 seconds to cast, otherwise, its just not going to see a use on any T8 mob. At level 80 beta raid buffed, all mages I grouped with did much better dps without this spell being queued, and that is probably how it will remain, since it hasn't changed.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:47 AM   #13
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they need to add a deagro to whoever cast it also, so at least it will have something cool tied to it, that might actually benifit the other mages, instead of [Removed for Content] them off......

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Old 11-28-2007, 02:39 PM   #14
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The cast time was added about a week before the beta ended.  I'll give the same feedback now that I gave back then.

This spell has the potential to raise the group's mages DPS ever so slightly.  It seems to be a little better DPS for us than Ball of Magma.  I say seems because its hard to tell what the actual cast time is.  It seemed about the same as my Ice Nova when I tested it, so I've made the assumption that it is 4 seconds, if it is a longer cast time than the DPS is probably slightly under Ball of Magma.  Assuming it is better than Ball of Magma, this would make the spell a good spell to cast for most mages, as it is above average DPS.  The problem is, the other mages get interrupted from what they are doing, and so the cost (ie time spent casting the spell) for the other mages is higher than what it is going to be for the initiating wizard.  I feel that this is making the spell very hit or miss on whether it is a benefit or a hinderance to our group members. 

I think the cost of using this spell needs to be reduced.  I'm not talking about the power cost.  I'm refering once again to the time cost that is incurred on all of the mages in the group.  The damage output for the time cost just isn't at a point where it benefits every mage.  There is another cost that this spell has that is a more important though in my opinion.  When a player's character loses control over what they are doing, that is a negative in my opinion no matter how it is spun. 

Some simple options for improving this spell are:

A) Remove the cast time for the Wizard and the other mages.  B) Leave the cast time for the Wizard, but remove the cast time for the other mages.C) Reduce the cast time for both the Wizard and the other mages.D) Leave the cast time for the Wizard, but reduce the cast time for the other mages.E) Reduce the cast time for the Wizard, and remove the cast time for the other mages.

From most beneficial change to least beneficial change I would rank these in the order A, E, B, C, D.  If any of those options seems overpowered, simply increase the recast time to compensate.  But honestly considering the fact that it is a 3 min recast and the damage is attributed to each mage in the group, I think option A would be acceptable even without increasing the recast time.

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Old 11-28-2007, 03:50 PM   #15
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SacDaddy420 wrote:
I'm still playing with this spell, still trying to figure out the best way to use it.It works great for me, but then again I know exactly when I'm going to cast it.I've made a group macro "Rays in 5" and i hit that then cast bolt of ice, BoM then queue Rays. Even then, with the interrupt + looooong cast time every mage I've been in group with isn't exactly pleased with it. Even though I've seen 12K+ crits (dispatched FTW).I think this spell is awesome, but would love to see the time each mage takes to cast it reduced in duration to somewhere along the lines of Velium Gift's. Keep the interrupt and the recast timer the same.  Or keep the cast time and have each mage queue the spell  (losing the interrupt).

I think it's that other players don't like it when an other player causes their character to do something like that.

Personally, I think the spell is interesting.  while it won't help your parse any, it does do a ton of damage when you are grouped with a few mages.  In the test I have done it attributes the damage done to each individual involved.  In the end I think that's best. 

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Old 11-28-2007, 05:43 PM   #16
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A.) smoked up, when I read B.) Dehah I had just C.) your post it D.) roflcopters E.) blew my freakin mind B,A,C,E,D
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:01 PM   #17
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The only 2 viable and acceptable option for such a staple end game spell that every wizard looks upon would be : 1) Remove the cast time for the Wizard and the other mages and leave the damage and recast as isOr...2) Make RoD a RAIDWIDE cast for ALL mages and not only grouped mages. If buff is RAIDWIDE, the cast time could be reduced by 0.5s for every mage that participates in the spell. Leave the damage as is.Only problem with option 1 would be 10k instant nuke for solo wiz (not that would not be nice, but i can see other classes screamin there) Could be avoided in adding a cast condition (Wizard must be grouped for cast time to be INSTANT / otherwise it's 5 sec)
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:49 PM   #18
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General opinion: This spell is mediocre for being our lvl 80 spell.  Ritual magic sounds impressive but it's not so great dps considering it's interrupting the other people, who might be doing something important. Personally I like the idea of 'volunteer' people you can cast it as a buff on.  But either way, this spell should do a bit more damage, so it's an overall worthwhile spell, and not just a "6 mage sacrifice group" worthwhile spell.
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Old 11-28-2007, 08:21 PM   #19
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Anyone else would vote for raidwide buff on this one ?
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:44 AM   #20
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Raid wide would be great IF and only if on a volunteer basis ! imagine someone casting a miracle and getting interrupt ?
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Old 11-29-2007, 04:56 AM   #21
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I still think this spell blows.  This is trash damage and has [Removed for Content] usability.  Not everyone enjoys raiding, which is what this seems to be aimed at.  For a PvP wizard, this does nothing.  I would simply interrupt my warlock as he casts Apoc or Rift, my Illy while he casts his group mez, my other wizard casting fusion, etc., and replacing it with something totally unimpressive.  This won't even be on my hotbar unless it is changed COMPLETELY, and I mean a whole different spell.  I think now that PvP is popular and taken seriously, it's really quite sad that pvp functionality wasn't even taken into consideration.  PvP is on-the-spot reaction and playing to the best of your ability.  It's bad enough having a brigand interrupt me.  Now my own wizard buddies?  BITE ME!
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Old 11-29-2007, 08:42 AM   #22
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Raid wide would be great IF and only if on a volunteer basis ! imagine someone casting a miracle and getting interrupt ?_________________________________________________ Ouch!Seriously this spell is only good for [Removed for Content] people off. I think whoever came up with the idea for this spell also gave us the lame Ice Comet graphic.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:12 AM   #23
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Have you taken a look at what other mage classes get?

Rays sound pretty sweet when compared to my 2k damage swarm pet.

If you draw attention to it you might just get it nerfed :p

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Old 11-29-2007, 02:16 PM   #24
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Jayingsoo wrote:
I still think this spell blows.  This is trash damage and has [Removed for Content] usability.  Not everyone enjoys raiding, which is what this seems to be aimed at.  For a PvP wizard, this does nothing.  I would simply interrupt my warlock as he casts Apoc or Rift, my Illy while he casts his group mez, my other wizard casting fusion, etc., and replacing it with something totally unimpressive.  This won't even be on my hotbar unless it is changed COMPLETELY, and I mean a whole different spell.  I think now that PvP is popular and taken seriously, it's really quite sad that pvp functionality wasn't even taken into consideration.  PvP is on-the-spot reaction and playing to the best of your ability.  It's bad enough having a brigand interrupt me.  Now my own wizard buddies?  BITE ME!
Try to remove the tunnel vision for a second, this game is designed around PvE. You have no grounds to be complaining from a PvP standpoint unless every tank DIDNT get a tanking ability for level 80 (which they did). The only useful PvP ability a tank got was berserker. So dry your tears cuz Wizard is one of the stronger PvP classes to begin with.Edit: Spelling
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:42 PM   #25
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On a raid last night the illusionist told all fast casters to stay away from me because I will "F-up their groove" if I cast it near them. Constant complaints about how their spells are 1 second cast and standing their with their **** in their hands for 5 seconds waiting for my spell to cast was just making them mad.

Yeah, it was fun.

No, not really. T

This spell in its current state blows. Make it instant cast, not just instant interupt, and maybe, just maybe...

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Old 11-30-2007, 06:15 AM   #26
Jayingsoo

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littlegoblin wrote:
Jayingsoo wrote:
I still think this spell blows.  This is trash damage and has [Removed for Content] usability.  Not everyone enjoys raiding, which is what this seems to be aimed at.  For a PvP wizard, this does nothing.  I would simply interrupt my warlock as he casts Apoc or Rift, my Illy while he casts his group mez, my other wizard casting fusion, etc., and replacing it with something totally unimpressive.  This won't even be on my hotbar unless it is changed COMPLETELY, and I mean a whole different spell.  I think now that PvP is popular and taken seriously, it's really quite sad that pvp functionality wasn't even taken into consideration.  PvP is on-the-spot reaction and playing to the best of your ability.  It's bad enough having a brigand interrupt me.  Now my own wizard buddies?  BITE ME!
Try to remove the tunnel vision for a second, this game is designed around PvE. You have no grounds to be complaining from a PvP standpoint unless every tank DIDNT get a tanking ability for level 80 (which they did). The only useful PvP ability a tank got was berserker. So dry your tears cuz Wizard is one of the stronger PvP classes to begin with.Edit: Spelling
Somebody's gotta say it from a PvP standpoint. I have no grounds to complain?  I play the game too, but in the way I choose to play it.  PvP has been around long enough for the teams to make PvP functionality an important part of how the spell/ability is implemented.  It's not just for you PvE'ers anymore that just kill the same raid mobs once a week.  While it may not have been true in the past, PvP holds it's own now and is an important chunk of the population in EQ2.  I just wish the thoughts behind this spell were a lot different.  After using this ability, I can imagine I'll easily have more mage enemies in Qeynos than all of Freeport combined.
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:53 AM   #27
simpwrx02

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IMHo need to give this spell the same damage range as Ice Bolt and keep the cast time as it is, but jack up recast to 5 min.  I doubt anyone would [Removed for Content] about a 8-12k base damage nuke that takes 5 seconds to cast and if it crits on a dispatched mob can hit for upwards of 30k.

Had another idea, but not going to post it here until I try it out and if it works will most deffinatly not post it, but will put out my findings in the WW wizzy channel.

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Old 12-03-2007, 04:19 PM   #28
Dejah

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JackAll wrote:

Have you taken a look at what other mage classes get?

Rays sound pretty sweet when compared to my 2k damage swarm pet.

If you draw attention to it you might just get it nerfed :p

What is the cast time for your 2k damage swarm pet?  If it is 2 seconds, suppose you are casting it and right before you finish it you are forced to cast rays of disintegration.  Which would mean that the time cost is roughly 6 seconds to cast rays of disintegration.  The damage per second you just did with Rays of Disintegration is suddenly quite comparable to what you could have done with out having to lose control of your character was doing. 

Damage per time cost for Rays of Disintegration is what I'd call above average if it is timed perfectly and doesn't interupt anyone.  This means that more often than not, if it were timed perfectly it would increase the person's DPS.  Sometimes it might prevent someone from doing something of higher DPS, in which case it could lower the persons DPS, but they can always do that higher DPS thing afterwards, which means that on average they'll be casting more higher DPS spells, and have less time for casting the lower DPS spells.  The problem is that this ideal condition is never met.  There is an additional cost of time for each mage that is forced to cast: the time they lose from being interupted.  This changes the spell from what I would consider above average DPS to just average DPS, and in some cases just plain aweful DPS.

I don't think it is worth the negativity of forcing people to do something if 50% of the time it increases their DPS and the other 50% of the time it decreases their DPS.  If the spell only affected Wizards, I would use it much more often.  It would find a place in my casting order and it wouldn't stay up long after the recast timer expired.  But the costs (in time) for the other mages just doesn't make it worth it. 

One final thing that I apparently have kept forgetting to mention.  Rays of Disintegration causes enchanters to lose their casting haste.  The the final ability in the Agility line for enchanters allows them to get a tremendous amount of casting haste, but in order to maintain their haste they have to be chain casting.  If they don't cast a spell fast enough their casting haste drops.  Rays of Disintegration's casting time plus the time they lose from being interupted causes their casting speed to drop.

Just shaving off a second of the cast time that the other mages have would be enough for me.  This wouldn't increase my personal DPS at all.  I'm much more concerned with how this affects the people who are negatively impacted when I cast this spell, i.e. the people who lose control over what their character is doing.  It is only fair to all the other mage classes that something is done to this spell.

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Old 12-03-2007, 07:14 PM   #29
suroktheslayer5

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[email protected] wrote:
JackAll wrote:

Have you taken a look at what other mage classes get?

Rays sound pretty sweet when compared to my 2k damage swarm pet.

If you draw attention to it you might just get it nerfed :p

What is the cast time for your 2k damage swarm pet?  If it is 2 seconds, suppose you are casting it and right before you finish it you are forced to cast rays of disintegration.  Which would mean that the time cost is roughly 6 seconds to cast rays of disintegration.  The damage per second you just did with Rays of Disintegration is suddenly quite comparable to what you could have done with out having to lose control of your character was doing. 

Damage per time cost for Rays of Disintegration is what I'd call above average if it is timed perfectly and doesn't interupt anyone.  This means that more often than not, if it were timed perfectly it would increase the person's DPS.  Sometimes it might prevent someone from doing something of higher DPS, in which case it could lower the persons DPS, but they can always do that higher DPS thing afterwards, which means that on average they'll be casting more higher DPS spells, and have less time for casting the lower DPS spells.  The problem is that this ideal condition is never met.  There is an additional cost of time for each mage that is forced to cast: the time they lose from being interupted.  This changes the spell from what I would consider above average DPS to just average DPS, and in some cases just plain aweful DPS.

I don't think it is worth the negativity of forcing people to do something if 50% of the time it increases their DPS and the other 50% of the time it decreases their DPS.  If the spell only affected Wizards, I would use it much more often.  It would find a place in my casting order and it wouldn't stay up long after the recast timer expired.  But the costs (in time) for the other mages just doesn't make it worth it. 

One final thing that I apparently have kept forgetting to mention.  Rays of Disintegration causes enchanters to lose their casting haste.  The the final ability in the Agility line for enchanters allows them to get a tremendous amount of casting haste, but in order to maintain their haste they have to be chain casting.  If they don't cast a spell fast enough their casting haste drops.  Rays of Disintegration's casting time plus the time they lose from being interupted causes their casting speed to drop.

Just shaving off a second of the cast time that the other mages have would be enough for me.  This wouldn't increase my personal DPS at all.  I'm much more concerned with how this affects the people who are negatively impacted when I cast this spell, i.e. the people who lose control over what their character is doing.  It is only fair to all the other mage classes that something is done to this spell.

QFMFTTell it how it is brotha!
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:08 PM   #30
Avokk

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This spell ABSOLUTELY needs to be looked into (there are some interresting suggestions in this thread id love to see such ideas implemented)As it is it's more undesirable then anything Last thing a wiz wants is to annoy all other mages with interrupts since we already annoy them with our parses ;p
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