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Old 10-01-2010, 04:03 PM   #151
Crismorn

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Your base cast/re-use on single/group ward are the exact same as cleric reactives, I do think you guys should get the same benefit from crit on your wards and heals as the rest of the healers do on just their heals but using the cast speed reasoning is kinda dumb.

Clerics get cast speed in their KoS aa's and shaman get re-use in their KoS aa's, at this point in time I would rather have the re-use tbh.

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Old 10-02-2010, 03:35 PM   #152
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Geothe wrote:

Start them off at a lower -base- crit, ie, the base crit value for wards be 1.15, but thereafter get full effect of crit bonus.  Getting only 50% gain out of your blue stats on wards is stupid.

I think this is exactly how it should work--we should get the penalty to initial crit bonus (15% instead of 30% to wards), and then gain full benefit from anything added via gear, effects or AA's. 

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Old 10-02-2010, 05:20 PM   #153
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Geothe wrote:

Start them off at a lower -base- crit, ie, the base crit value for wards be 1.15, but thereafter get full effect of crit bonus.  Getting only 50% gain out of your blue stats on wards is stupid.

I think this is exactly how it should work--we should get the penalty to initial crit bonus (15% instead of 30% to wards), and then gain full benefit from anything added via gear, effects or AA's. 

While selfishly I would like to see the crit bonus issue lifted from my wards, i do have some reservations about how powerful that might make myself and other high end raiding defilers --  especially if they are getting the fury mythical buff. As it is now, when i get fully buffed in raid (Fury buff/CH/etc) i can get my ST ward to hit upwards of 18k (though more commonly 15-17k.  This is approx half of the tanks hp (which is commonly between 36-40k).  If i were to receive the full effect of my ~115 crit bonus +/- 10% from procs, the amount of warding would start to get ridiculous, i.e., 22k+ wards. 

If we take the group ward into account, it gets even more powerful.  I can already land a group ward which exceeds the tanks hp (41k is highest i've seen -- obviously not the norm), and while splitting that between 6 members is still a modest group heal, the group ward is ordinarily going to be used up largely by the tank himself.  Shamans are the only class that can actually have the full effect of their group heal focused onto one target.

On the other hand, there will be a point at which the amount of crit bonus clerics can achieve on their reactives seemingly becomes overpowered compared with wards.  I have no idea what a high end cleric is commonly seeing from their reactives, but i guess the point is that i don't think this whole issue is just as easy as removing the crit bonus cap on ward at this point in time.

To address a few points i recall seeing earlier on.  Shaman are NOT meant to be solo group healers.  While they CAN do it.. other classes will do it much more effectively, i.e. druids or inquisitors.  Removing the crit bonus penalty to make us better solo healers is not a valid reason in my opinion.  Our role is in preventing spike damage, which makes us the prime tank group healers.. and very critical in heavy aoe fights for supporting another healer in a dps group if needed.

I honestly feel like wards will have to continue to receive 50% benefit from crit bonus to keep us in line.  However, to combat that, a direct healing portion should be added to the ward (i don't think mystics have direct heals on their wards at all.. but i am not 100% sure) via aa's or otherwise in coming expansions.  Defilers would need this type of AA less as we already have it through our mythical and the option to add another smaller heal through red adornments. Perhaps give us a reactive type heal as a special ability (akin to templars getting a ward type ability with repent). There are a number of other ways to balance the issues we may begin to see with increasing crit bonus.. i'm just not convinced removing the cap for wards is the right way to go about it.

Thoughts on this are welcome SMILEY

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Old 10-02-2010, 06:34 PM   #154
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Slowin wrote:

Thoughts on this are welcome

Here's my take on it:

HPS potential is growing at a faster rate than incoming DPS.  It has been this way since at least RoK.  The raid content designers kill us with spike damage. Spike damage scales at a rate similar to our effective HP pools.  Wards obviously increase effective HP pools, and raid content is designed around the assumption you have wards.  Bigger wards lead the designers to create bigger spikes, which ends up making Shaman more and more important.

Ideally, wards will grow at about the same rate as our HP pools, so that their relative importance stays about the same.  With how the game has been working the last several years, that's much more important than whether or not wards grow at the same rate as heals.  No matter how big heals are, wards will always be important (as long as they at least scale at the same rate as HP pools).

Of course, that's from a raiding perspective.

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Old 10-03-2010, 12:28 AM   #155
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this type of thinking is going to come back and bite you in the fanny later on.         this is the same rhetoric that raid guards used when the first fighter revamp happened. guards got hit hard.     of course the raid mt's (like your self) had the gear to mitigate the class deficiencies but that didn't mean that there was no problem.    fast forward to this expac after a year or two of neglect and even raid guards are feeling the pinch.  

this issue needs to delt with and soon.  the more crit bonus enters the game the further behind the shaman class falls.

 btw the differences between my warden healing a group and my defiler are pronounced.   i wouldn't mind so much if my defiler brought some other type of utility but since he does not then he should not lag behind in healing/warding potential.

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Old 10-03-2010, 05:43 AM   #156
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Davngr1 wrote:

 btw the differences between my warden healing a group and my defiler are pronounced.   i wouldn't mind so much if my defiler brought some other type of utility but since he does not then he should not lag behind in healing/warding potential.

Imagine your scenario backwards.  What if you replaced the MT shaman on, for instance, a HM vaclaz encounter?  Your druid would lag behind your shaman severely in effectiveness and i'd wager you would never be able to keep your tank alive for it.   Does this mean druid heals are broken? No. 

Defilers are not meant for solo healing content.  That doesn't mean they can't do it..(in fact solo healing anything but the more difficult HM encounters is pretty easy)  but it also means you shouldn't be surprised when a class that is equipped for solo healing more effectively, surpasses your ability to do so.  Not every class is supposed to be equal at everything. 

The poster before you made an excellent point imo.  As long as our wards scale properly with the increasing health pools that all players receive, our necessity as spike damage mitigators remains intact.  Other healers can have as strong of direct heals as they want, most of their potential is going to remain wasted.

I admit that this issue with crit bonus has the potential to become a real problem and its why i suggested our wards should come equipped with stronger direct heals.. or that we receive some new reactive type ability which will allow other areas of our healing to scale the same as the other archetypes.  The issue is that right now shaman are pretty well balanced and to change this mechanic would overpower us. 

In fact, what i would foresee as a more likely scenario is that other healers get some sort of nerf to keep their heals from outscaling player health pools and incoming damage.  Its definitely something that will need to be monitored closely when the expansion comes out and brand new and more powerful gear becomes available to us.

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Old 10-04-2010, 11:34 AM   #157
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Slowin wrote:

To address a few points i recall seeing earlier on.  Shaman are NOT meant to be solo group healers.  While they CAN do it.. other classes will do it much more effectively, i.e. druids or inquisitors.  Removing the crit bonus penalty to make us better solo healers is not a valid reason in my opinion.  Our role is in preventing spike damage, which makes us the prime tank group healers.. and very critical in heavy aoe fights for supporting another healer in a dps group if needed.

Why should we accept that again?  Do other healers suck when duo healing groups or something?  Of course not, they can still get the job done.  So what is the drawback for other healing classes to balance us not being 'meant' to solo heal a group? 

Don't try to say its because our wards are so important to prevent spike damage, because we are not the only class with wards.  In fact, don't all the healers have a ward now?  I know pallies do too and there's plenty of tank gear with wards.

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Old 11-18-2010, 10:00 AM   #158
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Question - Accuracy increases the chance of hitting a mob, but what is the match behind it?

f.eks is base and what does 2% give me again a lvl 90 mob?

I know it is a really nice stat to have but i would like to know more about it if possible. 

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Old 12-08-2010, 04:14 AM   #159
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muscho wrote:

Question - Accuracy increases the chance of hitting a mob, but what is the match behind it?

f.eks is base and what does 2% give me again a lvl 90 mob?

I know it is a really nice stat to have but i would like to know more about it if possible. 

 the "to hit" formula is always changing so dev's have said that they don't want to post it because of this.

   accuracy is a good thing but it's importance depends on your class.   look at your parses if your auto attack hit rates are bellow 80 percent then you should try to find any accuracy you can(not including blocks/parry/dodge/riposte since these are not governed by accuracy).      if your hit rates are in the high 80's/90's then accuracy isin't a big issue for you.

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Old 12-08-2010, 04:28 PM   #160
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I have a simple question, that I am having a hard time finding the answer on, How do you calculate base stat caps at lower levels? IE where does Sta cap at say 39 or where does Agi cap at 49?

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Old 12-10-2010, 12:01 PM   #161
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The old formula for stat caps was (Level * 15) + 20

With SF, they removed stat caps, but as far as I can remember, the old diminishing returns formulas were left in place when below 1200.  So my best guess is that at level 39, any value over 605 will be worthless to you unless you can get it up to 1200. At 49 its 755.

One more thing, I think only your primary stat is uncapped in relation to the damage you do.  So getting over 1200 stamina won't give you any extra hps.

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Old 12-10-2010, 12:06 PM   #162
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Davngr1 wrote:

 the "to hit" formula is always changing so dev's have said that they don't want to post it because of this.

   accuracy is a good thing but it's importance depends on your class.   look at your parses if your auto attack hit rates are bellow 80 percent then you should try to find any accuracy you can(not including blocks/parry/dodge/riposte since these are not governed by accuracy).      if your hit rates are in the high 80's/90's then accuracy isin't a big issue for you.

While accuracy is a good thing, its a mystery on how +skill vs accuracy are applied in to-hit calculations.

With 720 skill, what is the cap in accuracy bonus before it comes irrevelant?

At 600 skill, what is that cap?

Since both mechanics in essence apply to the same calculation differently, it makes gear decisions more complicated than they should be, and honestly, I thought communicating this type of feedback from game was something they've been trying to improve for years.

Note: I'm not actually looking for the answers to the above questions, I'm just trying to illustrate how little information we have from the game itself to base decisions on.

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Old 02-15-2011, 12:37 AM   #163
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-=Hoss=- wrote:

The old formula for stat caps was (Level * 15) + 20

With SF, they removed stat caps, but as far as I can remember, the old diminishing returns formulas were left in place when below 1200.  So my best guess is that at level 39, any value over 605 will be worthless to you unless you can get it up to 1200. At 49 its 755.

One more thing, I think only your primary stat is uncapped in relation to the damage you do.  So getting over 1200 stamina won't give you any extra hps.

There was a statement too from the devs that for every 30 percent you get over the stat cap, you get 10 percent more damage for you main stat. I believe they said the other stats beside your class main are hard capped as in once you reach the number using the forumula above, you will get no more benefit from them.

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Old 02-28-2011, 07:57 PM   #164
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Any way to get the link in the first post updated for the new expansion?  Its a great tool to link to people that are starting the game, but I fear its not up to date anymore... Thanks

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Old 04-10-2011, 03:07 PM   #165
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Regarding mitigation debuf, is there a maximum benifit to players damage obtained from debuffing epic monsters? If there is a maximum bebuf benifit to players what is that limit?

I swear I remember Epic monsters mitigation (arcane for example) was reduced to 0 baseline, and all mitigation reductions lowered it providing more of a benifit.

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Old 04-11-2011, 04:03 AM   #166
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Hi,

is there an Update to the Combat Mechanics for DoV ?

I'm specifically looking for Caps - whats capped and whats not.

Regards, theriatis.

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Old 07-10-2011, 01:53 PM   #167
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theriatis wrote:

Hi,

is there an Update to the Combat Mechanics for DoV ?

I'm specifically looking for Caps - whats capped and whats not.

Regards, theriatis.

Would be great if they could update the Combat Mechanics Page to current content... Its a GREAT source of info for new and old players alike, if it were up to date

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Old 08-14-2011, 12:10 AM   #168
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[email protected] wrote:

theriatis wrote:

Hi,

is there an Update to the Combat Mechanics for DoV ?

I'm specifically looking for Caps - whats capped and whats not.

Regards, theriatis.

Would be great if they could update the Combat Mechanics Page to current content... Its a GREAT source of info for new and old players alike, if it were up to date

Any update in the future?  I have refered endless people to the first thread, but its becoming quickly outdated for many things, would be great if I could point people to an updated list...

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Old 08-15-2011, 03:59 PM   #169
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

theriatis wrote:

Hi,

is there an Update to the Combat Mechanics for DoV ?

I'm specifically looking for Caps - whats capped and whats not.

Regards, theriatis.

Would be great if they could update the Combat Mechanics Page to current content... Its a GREAT source of info for new and old players alike, if it were up to date

Any update in the future?  I have refered endless people to the first thread, but its becoming quickly outdated for many things, would be great if I could point people to an updated list...

 mechanics that aren't posted are usually subject to change and thus are not posted because of that.

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Old 09-17-2011, 07:01 PM   #170
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Davngr1 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

theriatis wrote:

Hi,

is there an Update to the Combat Mechanics for DoV ?

I'm specifically looking for Caps - whats capped and whats not.

Regards, theriatis.

Would be great if they could update the Combat Mechanics Page to current content... Its a GREAT source of info for new and old players alike, if it were up to date

Any update in the future?  I have refered endless people to the first thread, but its becoming quickly outdated for many things, would be great if I could point people to an updated list...

 mechanics that aren't posted are usually subject to change and thus are not posted because of that.

What? that doesn't make any sense... it's not that mechanics aren't posted, its that the OLD OLD mechanics are posted... it was updated last over a year ago... It needs to be updated with current DoV mechanics..

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Old 02-20-2012, 12:30 PM   #171
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[email protected] wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

theriatis wrote:

Hi,

is there an Update to the Combat Mechanics for DoV ?

I'm specifically looking for Caps - whats capped and whats not.

Regards, theriatis.

Would be great if they could update the Combat Mechanics Page to current content... Its a GREAT source of info for new and old players alike, if it were up to date

Any update in the future?  I have refered endless people to the first thread, but its becoming quickly outdated for many things, would be great if I could point people to an updated list...

 mechanics that aren't posted are usually subject to change and thus are not posted because of that.

What? that doesn't make any sense... it's not that mechanics aren't posted, its that the OLD OLD mechanics are posted... it was updated last over a year ago... It needs to be updated with current DoV mechanics..

Helpful as the post was at the time, it's now quite useless. Will a new version be posted? Or are all efforts now going to EQ3?

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Old 02-20-2012, 01:46 PM   #172
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Gladiolus wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Davngr1 wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

theriatis wrote:

Hi,

is there an Update to the Combat Mechanics for DoV ?

I'm specifically looking for Caps - whats capped and whats not.

Regards, theriatis.

Would be great if they could update the Combat Mechanics Page to current content... Its a GREAT source of info for new and old players alike, if it were up to date

Any update in the future?  I have refered endless people to the first thread, but its becoming quickly outdated for many things, would be great if I could point people to an updated list...

 mechanics that aren't posted are usually subject to change and thus are not posted because of that.

What? that doesn't make any sense... it's not that mechanics aren't posted, its that the OLD OLD mechanics are posted... it was updated last over a year ago... It needs to be updated with current DoV mechanics..

Helpful as the post was at the time, it's now quite useless. Will a new version be posted? Or are all efforts now going to EQ3?

if you understand what's going on then you understand what has changed and what has not since that post.   it's not worth making another post for a few changes imo.  it's not like devs job is to post stuff on this forum, the mechanics post was a nice jesture on xelg's part, not something he had to do.   after all you don't go into your restaurant and demand the chef show you how the food is made? 

  some of the stuff is not there (like exact hit rates formulas) but that's because these mechanics are ever changing and would require constant updates, even more so than those posted here.

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Old 09-01-2012, 10:56 AM   #173
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Hello,

ressource in French language is difficult to find for a new player. Translations seem to take a lot of time. Therefore, I resolve to go for English forum and then I would request clarification from veteran players please

What is exactly the difference between: 

ability Recovery Speed and Ability Reuse Speed?

It sounds really similar when reading. I never notice a gap of time between casting two spells or abilities. Is there one?

When reading:

  • Ability Modifier: Ability Modifier increases the amounts of all abilities. It caps at 50% of the base amount (factoring in Potency) of the ability.
  • what does this expression "factoring in potency" means please?

    Thank you for sharing any insight ont he matter. Maybe it's just a problem of language and understanding haaa if learning English could be as simple as collecting five items for a quest

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    Old 09-01-2012, 04:52 PM   #174
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    After using an ability, there is a short period of time before your character is able to use another ability. I think it is 0.5 seconds. This is known as the recovery period. You can reduce this small delay with ability recovery speed. Reuse speed reduces the amount of time before you can use the ability again.

    "factoring in Potency" means potency is applied to the ability first, and then the cap is determined.

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    Old 09-04-2012, 07:28 AM   #175
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    Thank you Malovelence, it's very clear now

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    Old 11-06-2012, 07:10 PM   #176
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    bump.

      it's the only thread of it's kind really and should stay on the first page.

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