SOE San Diego is Hiring

Gallenite · 10-07-2005, 03:39 AM

Afternoon, everyone. Just a brief one for you today, and not on a topic that we generally talk about here on the forums.

The SOE San Diego studio (where we make EQ2) has been helping out our other studios lately as they staff up some of their own projects. As a result, we have a few openings available. We're about to start looking for a few of the following kinds of people to help round us out in the places we've been exceptionally generous in donating to our sister studios. SMILEY

I wanted to do something a little different and call this out here on the boards. The people who do the best work are the ones who are the most passionate about the games they're working on. Where better than right here to find the people who are the most passionate about EQ2?

Here are a few of the different types of positions that we have coming available. These are all full-time positions in the San Diego studio. They all do require previous professional experience in one or more of the areas listed. Not all of them are on EQ2.

Engineers (Client) -- C++, DirectX, Rendering, Animation Systems, Audio, Asset pipelines
Engineers (Server and/or gameplay) -- C++, 24/7 services, databases, gameplay systems
Character Artists -- Modeling characters in 3dsmax.
Environment Artists -- Modeling environments in Maya
Technical Artist

The EQ2 team is a collaborative environment. Skills and personality are equally important. We're very interested in talking with people who love MMOs and enjoy being a part of a solid team. At the end of the day, our common goal is to make the best MMO.

If you're one of these people, take a look at the Employment link at the bottom of the SOE home page at http://www.station.sony.com/en/index.jsp. Sending a resume in that way is the best way to get hold of us.

You can also try to PM me about these, or send in a link to a resume, but I can't make any guarantees that my inbox won't explode or that I'll be able to reply to everyone, no matter how much I'd like to. SMILEY

Good hunting…for jobs or otherwise,

- Scott

naeldayy · 10-07-2005, 04:05 AM

Honk honk! Hey how's it going necro. Check your messages! edit: added some substance.

Message Edited by naeldayyan on 10-06-2005 05:19 PM

knygh · 10-07-2005, 05:12 AM

Aww, man.Will you be hiring in 2 years? Currently in Bachelors Program for Game Software Development.. but will be a while before I have the degree. lol

OlaeviaTraisharan · 10-07-2005, 06:47 AM

Not many companies care about the degree so much as your work experience SMILEY

I have 5 years of programming work experience but a B.A. degree in a foreign language.

Gallenite · 10-07-2005, 10:40 AM

OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:

Not many companies care about the degree so much as your work experience

I have 5 years of programming work experience but a B.A. degree in a foreign language.

Exactly. Around here, we call that "Well rounded" SMILEY

Slightly more seriously, an engineering degree from an accredited school is a great way to get exposed to lots of different disciplines, and a solid opportunity to learn the "why" behind a ton of disparate subjects, whether or not you use them later on. Learning how to learn about different things is a practiced skill in itself, for sure.

But there's definitely no reason to assume that's the only way people can get a wide variety of knowledge, or understand the all-important "whys," (definitely important with engineering) or that they can't teach themselves how to learn by learning lots about other things on their own.

Just like there's no reason to assume that a four year hitch and a piece of paper ensures that a person did school the "right" way, and actually learned all of those things along the way, instead of taking the cramming route and just skipping through along the surface.

Life, school, whichever -- You get out exactly what you put in. SMILEY

Randomly,

- Scott

Message Edited by Gallenite on 10-06-2005 11:43 PM

naeldayy · 10-07-2005, 10:55 AM

Gallenite wrote:

OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:

Not many companies care about the degree so much as your work experience

I have 5 years of programming work experience but a B.A. degree in a foreign language.

Exactly. Around here, we call that "Well rounded"

Slightly more seriously, an engineering degree from an accredited school is a great way to get exposed to lots of different disciplines, and a solid opportunity to learn the "why" behind a ton of disparate subjects, whether or not you use them later on. Learning how to learn about different things is a practiced skill in itself, for sure.

But there's definitely no reason to assume that's the only way people can get a wide variety of knowledge, or understand the all-important "whys," (definitely important with engineering) or that they can't teach themselves how to learn by learning lots about other things on their own.

Just like there's no reason to assume that a four year hitch and a piece of paper ensures that a person did school the "right" way, and actually learned all of those things along the way, instead of taking the cramming route and just skipping through along the surface.

Life, school, whichever -- You get out exactly what you put in.

Randomly,

- Scott

Message Edited by Gallenite on 10-06-2005 11:43 PM

What would you rather have, a awesome engineer that knew a little about everquest, or an awesome everquest player that knew some engineering?

Gallenite · 10-07-2005, 11:06 AM

naeldayyan wrote:

What would you rather have, a awesome engineer that knew a little about everquest, or an awesome everquest player that knew some engineering?

Good question. Depends entirely on the position.

Anyone who's working deep in a graphics engine, likely the former. From the point of view of a bunch of verts and pixels, there's really not much difference between one game and the next (relatively speaking), and it's the kind of thing you really can't do on-the-job training in.

Someone who's working strictly in the app layer where the gameplay part of the game lives, on top of existing systems, likely the latter, since they're working on top of stable systems made by more experienced engineers.

"knew some engineering," is still a little light, though, at least for our environment. We probably wouldn't go quite that far.

It's pretty important to understand more than just the mechanical act of writing code. It's a great start, but the "why" I referred to in the other message is pretty important, especially in situations where a dozen people are working in and around the same systems. One person who doesn't have a similar fundamental understanding of engineering can affect the work of a half dozen other people without even trying. SMILEY

- Scott

naeldayy · 10-07-2005, 11:27 AM

Gallenite wrote:

naeldayyan wrote:What would you rather have, a awesome engineer that knew a little about everquest, or an awesome everquest player that knew some engineering?

Good question. Depends entirely on the position.

Anyone who's working deep in a graphics engine, likely the former. From the point of view of a bunch of verts and pixels, there's really not much difference between one game and the next (relatively speaking), and it's the kind of thing you really can't do on-the-job training in.

Someone who's working strictly in the app layer where the gameplay part of the game lives, on top of existing systems, likely the latter, since they're working on top of stable systems made by more experienced engineers.

"knew some engineering," is still a little light, though, at least for our environment. We probably wouldn't go quite that far.

It's pretty important to understand more than just the mechanical act of writing code. It's a great start, but the "why" I referred to in the other message is pretty important, especially in situations where a dozen people are working in and around the same systems. One person who doesn't have a similar fundamental understanding of engineering can affect the work of a half dozen other people without even trying.

- Scott

I guess to be more specific. Take me for example, I've been programming in some form or another since about 1994 ranging from basic to perl and some limited c and very limited c++, my database experiences being in mysql or postgres, most of my enviroment has been with unix of some sort or another(freebsd, linux, solaris), but yet I have a pretty good idea bout how most things eq work( and I mean most things as in classes, mobs, items etc) since I have been around since dec 2000. Would someone like that be suited for the kind of work you guys do, or are you looking for some serious c++ monster hacker?

Ogrebe · 10-07-2005, 11:35 AM

Well while i would love to apply going to finsh and get my BS... and maybe an MS.. maybe i'll try in 3 years.

ReviloTX · 10-07-2005, 12:03 PM

Gallenite wrote:

Engineers (Client) -- C++, DirectX, Rendering, Animation Systems, Audio, Asset pipelines

Engineers (Server and/or gameplay) -- C++, 24/7 services, databases, gameplay systems

Sorry to derail your thread since I do think it's a great idea posting the job openings here.

However, I must say (since it is a huge pet peeve of mine), that you guys are computer programmers, not engineers. Engineers drive trains or build roads, buildings, space ships and chemical plants. Being a chemical engineer myself, I find it annoying that even janitors are now sanitary engineers. Let's keep some dignity in the words and call ourselves what we are.

Jindris · 10-07-2005, 12:50 PM

Darn... why can't you be hiring in the music department? Give me the next expansion! I noticed theres lots of parts of DOF that do not have music. You sure you don't need me? Lemme know. San Diego is a hop, skip, and jump from me.

PS: I think EQ2 really deserves dynamic musical changes within each zone, as well as much more dramatic music for epic battles)

knygh · 10-07-2005, 01:11 PM

Bah..A BA wont get you a decent job? What the hell am I going to school for then?? SMILEY

Saroc_Luclin · 10-07-2005, 03:08 PM

Actually you can have Computer Engineers; my old University (University of Waterloo) gave CS Engineering degrees (not sure if they still do or not but I assume they do since it's one of the things they are known for). They went through a different track, but had similar results in the end when you go through it; and AFAIK, you can participate in the Iron Ring ceremony.Most people are just Software Developers however and should be called that. SMILEY

That all said, do Canadians have any chance at all if they apply and are willing to move to SD? SMILEY

Cowdenic · 10-07-2005, 03:46 PM

How about hiring some ingame GM's and people to respond to people suggestions here on the forum.

That would get you far.

OlaeviaTraisharan · 10-07-2005, 05:24 PM

ReviloTX wrote:

Gallenite wrote:

Engineers (Client) -- C++, DirectX, Rendering, Animation Systems, Audio, Asset pipelines

Engineers (Server and/or gameplay) -- C++, 24/7 services, databases, gameplay systems

Sorry to derail your thread since I do think it's a great idea posting the job openings here.

However, I must say (since it is a huge pet peeve of mine), that you guys are computer programmers, not engineers. Engineers drive trains or build roads, buildings, space ships and chemical plants. Being a chemical engineer myself, I find it annoying that even janitors are now sanitary engineers. Let's keep some dignity in the words and call ourselves what we are.

Bah it depends on the company.

At my last job in 2000, I was a "Software Engineer." I "built" programs and "engineered" them to do what the client needed. That's why they called us Software Engineers.

Now at my current job, I am just a "Programmer." I do the same Win32/C/C++ client/server code here as I did in the last job, but the definition of the job changed based on which company I was working for.

I've also seen Software Engineer titles applied more toward the people who design the applications from a very low-level and then applying the Software Programmer titles to those who do the high-level grunt work.

wurtin · 10-07-2005, 05:37 PM

ReviloTX wrote:

Gallenite wrote:

Engineers (Client) -- C++, DirectX, Rendering, Animation Systems, Audio, Asset pipelines

Engineers (Server and/or gameplay) -- C++, 24/7 services, databases, gameplay systems

Sorry to derail your thread since I do think it's a great idea posting the job openings here.

However, I must say (since it is a huge pet peeve of mine), that you guys are computer programmers, not engineers. Engineers drive trains or build roads, buildings, space ships and chemical plants. Being a chemical engineer myself, I find it annoying that even janitors are now sanitary engineers. Let's keep some dignity in the words and call ourselves what we are.

Hmm, I gradutated from the college of Engineering with a programming degree. Does this make me an engineer oh wise one, or simply just a programmer. I had to take the math the engineers did and all the other basic requirements of the engineering college. With the level of math programmers on the client side must understand I think safe to say they qualify as an engineer title.

The server side, maybe I'll give you, just looking at the job descriptions.

But, Get off your high horse, you aren't better than a janitor just because of your job.

ArivenGemini · 10-07-2005, 06:36 PM

OlaeviaTraisharan wrote:

I've also seen Software Engineer titles applied more toward the people who design the applications from a very low-level and then applying the Software Programmer titles to those who do the high-level grunt work.

Thats how I look at it.. where I work there is myself and one other in the computer department, I am a software programmer, he is a software engineer.. the systems we specialze in are different enough, and our focus different enough that I have no problems referring to him as such.. he can do magic at a low level that I can't approach, but I can do the high level stuff just as well or better..

Tarko · 10-07-2005, 06:37 PM

ReviloTX wrote:

Sorry to derail your thread since I do think it's a great idea posting the job openings here.

However, I must say (since it is a huge pet peeve of mine), that you guys are computer programmers, not engineers. Engineers drive trains or build roads, buildings, space ships and chemical plants. Being a chemical engineer myself, I find it annoying that even janitors are now sanitary engineers. Let's keep some dignity in the words and call ourselves what we are.

Just because someone obtains a BS in mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc. engineering does not make that person and engineer. Obtaining a Professional Engineer license makes you an engineer (not necessarily a good one though). In fact in many states it is illegal to use the term engineer unless you are licensed PE (there are one or two exceptions). I know a lot of people with BS degrees in engineering who call themselves engineers who haven’t passed the PE exam.

So if your going to get peeved, make sure you get peeved at those who have BS degrees in other disciplines, who haven’t obtained a PE license, but are calling themselves engineers.

Also, you can obtain a PE license in Electrical and Computer. One of the exams you can take is based on computer Hardware, Software, and Networking. So someone can in fact call themselves a Software Engineer, after you pass the PE exam of course (or if you fall under one of the exceptions).

I guess it's my peeve that a lot of people who have BS degrees but don't have PE licenses are quick to say, 'You can't call yourself a software engineer', when in fact they shouldn't even be calling themselves an engineer.

Although, I'm not trying to imply that your not a licensed Professional Engineer ReviloTX.

Potterguy · 10-07-2005, 07:06 PM

Good lord,

The taped glasses/pocket protector crowd sure ganked this thread. It started off as a pretty informative thread about the qualifications SOE is looking for in some interesting job openings, and got nerd humped into an arguement over the correct deffinition of "engineer".

OMG

SkySava · 10-07-2005, 08:40 PM

I want to applaud SOE for posting this here. Even if the positions are filled with noone who visits these forums it is a really incredible thing that they consider the forum community to be a good place to illicite staff from. This makes me feel pretty good about the admin people there are SOE and especially EQ2. Thank you for recognizing our passion and enthusiasm for this game.

TygerBlueEy · 10-07-2005, 09:10 PM

I'm not asking this for myself. I'm too old to move and my programming skills are dated, but is SOE looking for interns? I know most companies dont like to deal with interns for a lot of reasons. I though I would ask tho. Internship is a great way to learn and build on the job exp.

ShadowplayDarkstar · 10-07-2005, 09:32 PM

sigh ..maybe one day ill have the skill and requirements to apply for such positions. Im already 26 and just ( hopefully) starting school in santa monica in the spring..and then maybe i might transfer to long beach university which has a great art /programming division.

Its so impossible when you have to pay for apartments and work a full time job and get no benefits ( ive tried ) from the govt besides loans, everytime i try and join a school ( i was supposed to join Art Institute of oc game design courses on the third but opted out.) something comes up. I decided not to go at the last minute when i recieved a few tip offs from game designers artists that it wasnt a good idea to go to AI for their lack of credit transfers and that most companies want university credits.

On a personal note i also opted out because the school still wanted academic classes and my first semester had a bunch of classes that i could easily take at a community college. Why am i going to pay 1000 dollars a class for credits i can pick up for 30 - 60 dollars a class. Not to mention tht the entire school would cost 80k and i received no grants so that would have had to have been paid off eventually. I think i made the right decision ..although i hate to keep pushing back the date....im not getting any younger.

Sigh

On a slightly nrelated note i was wondering if ..

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=grph&message.id=16544

Message Edited by ShadowplayDarkstar on 10-07-2005 10:36 AM

ReviloTX · 10-07-2005, 09:38 PM

Potterguy wrote:

Good lord,

The taped glasses/pocket protector crowd sure ganked this thread.

According to my wife, we are all nerds... but anyways..

Your right though, sorry for ganking the thread. I honestly thought my post would get ignored.

Tarkoss, I understand where your coming from, but I disagree to some extent. Obtaining a BS in chemical engineering pretty much makes someone a chemical engineer. A PE is only really needed if your going to go into the design aspect of engineering.

Wurtin, I personally don't feel that computer programmers are engineers, but whatever. And you are right, I'm no better then a janitor. But, I'm an engineeer and he's a janitor. No better, no worse of a person, thats just what we are.

ReviloTX · 10-07-2005, 09:45 PM

ShadowplayDarkstar wrote:

sigh ..maybe one day ill have the skill and requirements to apply for such positions. Im already 26 and just ( hopefully) starting school in santa monica in the spring..and then maybe i might transfer to long beach university which has a great art /programming division.

Its so impossible when you have to pay for apartments and work a full time job and get no benefits ( ive tried ) from the govt besides loans, everytime i try and join a school ( i was supposed to join Art Institute of oc game design courses on the third but opted out.) something comes up. I decided not to go at the last minute when i recieved a few tip offs from game designers artists that it wasnt a good idea to go to AI for their lack of credit transfers and that most companies want university credits.

On a personal note i also opted out because the school still wanted academic classes and my first semester had a bunch of classes that i could easily take at a community college. Why am i going to pay 1000 dollars a class for credits i can pick up for 30 - 60 dollars a class. Not to mention tht the entire school would cost 80k and i received no grants so that would have had to have been paid off eventually. I think i made the right decision ..although i hate to keep pushing back the date....im not getting any younger.

Message Edited by ShadowplayDarkstar on 10-07-200510:36 AM

Nobody said getting a degree was easy. Easier for some than others, but in the end you have to earn it yourself. That's why it means something.

I funded myself through college as well. I was reminded of it once a month for 8 years each time I wrote that $400 check to Sallie Mae. I personally think it's worth it though, and would encourage you to do everything you can to reach that goal.

Gallenite · 10-07-2005, 09:52 PM

Boy, this thread got weird fast. SMILEY

Gallenite · 10-07-2005, 09:54 PM

I'm still going to leave it open just to see where it goes next that's tangentially related to the subject...

OlaeviaTraisharan · 10-07-2005, 09:54 PM

My bad...

naeldayy · 10-07-2005, 10:07 PM

Gallenite wrote:
I'm still going to leave it open just to see where it goes next that's tangentially related to the subject...

I'll go there. Is roleplaying at the office a requirement?

JonasBlackmore · 10-07-2005, 10:20 PM

ReviloTX wrote:
Wurtin, I personally don't feel that computer programmers are engineers, but whatever. And you are right, I'm no better then a janitor. But, I'm an engineeer and he's a janitor. No better, no worse of a person, thats just what we are.

I am a trained and educated software engineer. I am also a computer programmer. I realize you feel that chemical, civil, mechanical, et al are more "real" forms of engineering, but, by definition, that's not the case. Engineer: a person who is trained in or follows as a profession a branch of engineering Engineering: 1 : to lay out, construct, or manage as an engineer 2 a : to contrive or plan out usually with more or less subtle skill and craft b : to guide the course of As a software engineer, I am charged with the formation of the underlying principles of the software solution I am to design. I then continue forward to construct (i.e. program) the solution. After this point, I must manage (code maintenance) the previously built software package. It requires both skill and craftsmanship to develop a viable and working solution. Now, how, as a Chemical Engineer (or any others), do you do something that would classify you as more of an engineer than that? **** Now, to be on topic, I think it's great that SoE is putting this out there for the community members of their games. It puts all those arm-chair developers in a position to "put up or shut up." So many people post opinions on what the devs should do or how they should have fixed a problem better. Hopefully some of these people will be able to apply and bring their ideas into our world. Personally, I'd love to do it...but I'm really not keen on moving to CA.

Captain_Xpendab · 10-07-2005, 10:20 PM

Gallenite wrote:

Boy, this thread got weird fast.

Post it in the NGD, you ain't seen nothin. :smileytongue:

10-07-2005, 03:39 AM	#1
Gallenite Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	Afternoon, everyone. Just a brief one for you today, and not on a topic that we generally talk about here on the forums. The SOE San Diego studio (where we make EQ2) has been helping out our other studios lately as they staff up some of their own projects. As a result, we have a few openings available. We're about to start looking for a few of the following kinds of people to help round us out in the places we've been exceptionally generous in donating to our sister studios. I wanted to do something a little different and call this out here on the boards. The people who do the best work are the ones who are the most passionate about the games they're working on. Where better than right here to find the people who are the most passionate about EQ2? Here are a few of the different types of positions that we have coming available. These are all full-time positions in the San Diego studio. They all do require previous professional experience in one or more of the areas listed. Not all of them are on EQ2. Engineers (Client) -- C++, DirectX, Rendering, Animation Systems, Audio, Asset pipelines Engineers (Server and/or gameplay) -- C++, 24/7 services, databases, gameplay systems Character Artists -- Modeling characters in 3dsmax. Environment Artists -- Modeling environments in Maya Technical Artist The EQ2 team is a collaborative environment. Skills and personality are equally important. We're very interested in talking with people who love MMOs and enjoy being a part of a solid team. At the end of the day, our common goal is to make the best MMO. If you're one of these people, take a look at the Employment link at the bottom of the SOE home page at http://www.station.sony.com/en/index.jsp. Sending a resume in that way is the best way to get hold of us. You can also try to PM me about these, or send in a link to a resume, but I can't make any guarantees that my inbox won't explode or that I'll be able to reply to everyone, no matter how much I'd like to. Good hunting…for jobs or otherwise, - Scott __________________ ____ Scott Hartsman Senior Producer Emeritus, EverQuest II

10-07-2005, 04:05 AM	#2
naeldayy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Honk honk! Hey how's it going necro. Check your messages! edit: added some substance. Message Edited by naeldayyan on 10-06-2005 05:19 PM __________________ eq.bertox.Naeldayyan

10-07-2005, 06:47 AM	#4
OlaeviaTraisharan Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 131	Not many companies care about the degree so much as your work experience I have 5 years of programming work experience but a B.A. degree in a foreign language. __________________

10-07-2005, 10:40 AM	#5
Gallenite Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	OlaeviaTraisharan wrote: Not many companies care about the degree so much as your work experience I have 5 years of programming work experience but a B.A. degree in a foreign language. Exactly. Around here, we call that "Well rounded" Slightly more seriously, an engineering degree from an accredited school is a great way to get exposed to lots of different disciplines, and a solid opportunity to learn the "why" behind a ton of disparate subjects, whether or not you use them later on. Learning how to learn about different things is a practiced skill in itself, for sure. But there's definitely no reason to assume that's the only way people can get a wide variety of knowledge, or understand the all-important "whys," (definitely important with engineering) or that they can't teach themselves how to learn by learning lots about other things on their own. Just like there's no reason to assume that a four year hitch and a piece of paper ensures that a person did school the "right" way, and actually learned all of those things along the way, instead of taking the cramming route and just skipping through along the surface. Life, school, whichever -- You get out exactly what you put in. Randomly, - Scott Message Edited by Gallenite on 10-06-2005 11:43 PM __________________ ____ Scott Hartsman Senior Producer Emeritus, EverQuest II

10-07-2005, 10:55 AM	#6
naeldayy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Gallenite wrote: OlaeviaTraisharan wrote: Not many companies care about the degree so much as your work experience I have 5 years of programming work experience but a B.A. degree in a foreign language. Exactly. Around here, we call that "Well rounded" Slightly more seriously, an engineering degree from an accredited school is a great way to get exposed to lots of different disciplines, and a solid opportunity to learn the "why" behind a ton of disparate subjects, whether or not you use them later on. Learning how to learn about different things is a practiced skill in itself, for sure. But there's definitely no reason to assume that's the only way people can get a wide variety of knowledge, or understand the all-important "whys," (definitely important with engineering) or that they can't teach themselves how to learn by learning lots about other things on their own. Just like there's no reason to assume that a four year hitch and a piece of paper ensures that a person did school the "right" way, and actually learned all of those things along the way, instead of taking the cramming route and just skipping through along the surface. Life, school, whichever -- You get out exactly what you put in. Randomly, - Scott Message Edited by Gallenite on 10-06-2005 11:43 PM What would you rather have, a awesome engineer that knew a little about everquest, or an awesome everquest player that knew some engineering? __________________ eq.bertox.Naeldayyan

10-07-2005, 05:12 AM	#3
knygh Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	Aww, man.Will you be hiring in 2 years? Currently in Bachelors Program for Game Software Development.. but will be a while before I have the degree. lol

10-07-2005, 11:06 AM	#7
Gallenite Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	naeldayyan wrote: What would you rather have, a awesome engineer that knew a little about everquest, or an awesome everquest player that knew some engineering? Good question. Depends entirely on the position. Anyone who's working deep in a graphics engine, likely the former. From the point of view of a bunch of verts and pixels, there's really not much difference between one game and the next (relatively speaking), and it's the kind of thing you really can't do on-the-job training in. Someone who's working strictly in the app layer where the gameplay part of the game lives, on top of existing systems, likely the latter, since they're working on top of stable systems made by more experienced engineers. "knew some engineering," is still a little light, though, at least for our environment. We probably wouldn't go quite that far. It's pretty important to understand more than just the mechanical act of writing code. It's a great start, but the "why" I referred to in the other message is pretty important, especially in situations where a dozen people are working in and around the same systems. One person who doesn't have a similar fundamental understanding of engineering can affect the work of a half dozen other people without even trying. - Scott __________________ ____ Scott Hartsman Senior Producer Emeritus, EverQuest II

10-07-2005, 11:27 AM	#8
naeldayy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Gallenite wrote: naeldayyan wrote:What would you rather have, a awesome engineer that knew a little about everquest, or an awesome everquest player that knew some engineering? Good question. Depends entirely on the position. Anyone who's working deep in a graphics engine, likely the former. From the point of view of a bunch of verts and pixels, there's really not much difference between one game and the next (relatively speaking), and it's the kind of thing you really can't do on-the-job training in. Someone who's working strictly in the app layer where the gameplay part of the game lives, on top of existing systems, likely the latter, since they're working on top of stable systems made by more experienced engineers. "knew some engineering," is still a little light, though, at least for our environment. We probably wouldn't go quite that far. It's pretty important to understand more than just the mechanical act of writing code. It's a great start, but the "why" I referred to in the other message is pretty important, especially in situations where a dozen people are working in and around the same systems. One person who doesn't have a similar fundamental understanding of engineering can affect the work of a half dozen other people without even trying. - Scott I guess to be more specific. Take me for example, I've been programming in some form or another since about 1994 ranging from basic to perl and some limited c and very limited c++, my database experiences being in mysql or postgres, most of my enviroment has been with unix of some sort or another(freebsd, linux, solaris), but yet I have a pretty good idea bout how most things eq work( and I mean most things as in classes, mobs, items etc) since I have been around since dec 2000. Would someone like that be suited for the kind of work you guys do, or are you looking for some serious c++ monster hacker? __________________ eq.bertox.Naeldayyan

10-07-2005, 11:35 AM	#9
Ogrebe General Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 383	Well while i would love to apply going to finsh and get my BS... and maybe an MS.. maybe i'll try in 3 years. __________________ Ogrebear's Thoughts -- My EQ2 and MMO blog

10-07-2005, 12:03 PM	#10
ReviloTX Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 234	Gallenite wrote: Engineers (Client) -- C++, DirectX, Rendering, Animation Systems, Audio, Asset pipelines Engineers (Server and/or gameplay) -- C++, 24/7 services, databases, gameplay systems Sorry to derail your thread since I do think it's a great idea posting the job openings here. However, I must say (since it is a huge pet peeve of mine), that you guys are computer programmers, not engineers. Engineers drive trains or build roads, buildings, space ships and chemical plants. Being a chemical engineer myself, I find it annoying that even janitors are now sanitary engineers. Let's keep some dignity in the words and call ourselves what we are.

10-07-2005, 12:50 PM	#11
Jindris Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 98	Darn... why can't you be hiring in the music department? Give me the next expansion! I noticed theres lots of parts of DOF that do not have music. You sure you don't need me? Lemme know. San Diego is a hop, skip, and jump from me. PS: I think EQ2 really deserves dynamic musical changes within each zone, as well as much more dramatic music for epic battles)

10-07-2005, 01:11 PM	#12
knygh Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3	Bah..A BA wont get you a decent job? What the hell am I going to school for then??

10-07-2005, 03:08 PM	#13
Saroc_Luclin Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 534	Actually you can have Computer Engineers; my old University (University of Waterloo) gave CS Engineering degrees (not sure if they still do or not but I assume they do since it's one of the things they are known for). They went through a different track, but had similar results in the end when you go through it; and AFAIK, you can participate in the Iron Ring ceremony.Most people are just Software Developers however and should be called that. That all said, do Canadians have any chance at all if they apply and are willing to move to SD?

10-07-2005, 03:46 PM	#14
Cowdenic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 492	How about hiring some ingame GM's and people to respond to people suggestions here on the forum. That would get you far. __________________ 70 Templar Befallen, Xlrate 70 Warlock Befallen, Boom 23 Swashbuckler Befallen, Dreadmore 18 Troubador Befallen, Xenus I am a M.O.F.O. Misfits of the Forgotten Order

10-07-2005, 05:24 PM	#15
OlaeviaTraisharan Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 131	ReviloTX wrote: Gallenite wrote: Engineers (Client) -- C++, DirectX, Rendering, Animation Systems, Audio, Asset pipelines Engineers (Server and/or gameplay) -- C++, 24/7 services, databases, gameplay systems Sorry to derail your thread since I do think it's a great idea posting the job openings here. However, I must say (since it is a huge pet peeve of mine), that you guys are computer programmers, not engineers. Engineers drive trains or build roads, buildings, space ships and chemical plants. Being a chemical engineer myself, I find it annoying that even janitors are now sanitary engineers. Let's keep some dignity in the words and call ourselves what we are. Bah it depends on the company. At my last job in 2000, I was a "Software Engineer." I "built" programs and "engineered" them to do what the client needed. That's why they called us Software Engineers. Now at my current job, I am just a "Programmer." I do the same Win32/C/C++ client/server code here as I did in the last job, but the definition of the job changed based on which company I was working for. I've also seen Software Engineer titles applied more toward the people who design the applications from a very low-level and then applying the Software Programmer titles to those who do the high-level grunt work. __________________

10-07-2005, 05:37 PM	#16
wurtin Loremaster Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 76	ReviloTX wrote: Gallenite wrote: Engineers (Client) -- C++, DirectX, Rendering, Animation Systems, Audio, Asset pipelines Engineers (Server and/or gameplay) -- C++, 24/7 services, databases, gameplay systems Sorry to derail your thread since I do think it's a great idea posting the job openings here. However, I must say (since it is a huge pet peeve of mine), that you guys are computer programmers, not engineers. Engineers drive trains or build roads, buildings, space ships and chemical plants. Being a chemical engineer myself, I find it annoying that even janitors are now sanitary engineers. Let's keep some dignity in the words and call ourselves what we are. Hmm, I gradutated from the college of Engineering with a programming degree. Does this make me an engineer oh wise one, or simply just a programmer. I had to take the math the engineers did and all the other basic requirements of the engineering college. With the level of math programmers on the client side must understand I think safe to say they qualify as an engineer title. The server side, maybe I'll give you, just looking at the job descriptions. But, Get off your high horse, you aren't better than a janitor just because of your job.

10-07-2005, 06:36 PM	#17
ArivenGemini Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,260	OlaeviaTraisharan wrote: I've also seen Software Engineer titles applied more toward the people who design the applications from a very low-level and then applying the Software Programmer titles to those who do the high-level grunt work. Thats how I look at it.. where I work there is myself and one other in the computer department, I am a software programmer, he is a software engineer.. the systems we specialze in are different enough, and our focus different enough that I have no problems referring to him as such.. he can do magic at a low level that I can't approach, but I can do the high level stuff just as well or better.. __________________

10-07-2005, 06:37 PM	#18
Tarko Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 10	ReviloTX wrote: Sorry to derail your thread since I do think it's a great idea posting the job openings here. However, I must say (since it is a huge pet peeve of mine), that you guys are computer programmers, not engineers. Engineers drive trains or build roads, buildings, space ships and chemical plants. Being a chemical engineer myself, I find it annoying that even janitors are now sanitary engineers. Let's keep some dignity in the words and call ourselves what we are. Just because someone obtains a BS in mechanical, electrical, chemical, etc. engineering does not make that person and engineer. Obtaining a Professional Engineer license makes you an engineer (not necessarily a good one though). In fact in many states it is illegal to use the term engineer unless you are licensed PE (there are one or two exceptions). I know a lot of people with BS degrees in engineering who call themselves engineers who haven’t passed the PE exam. So if your going to get peeved, make sure you get peeved at those who have BS degrees in other disciplines, who haven’t obtained a PE license, but are calling themselves engineers. Also, you can obtain a PE license in Electrical and Computer. One of the exams you can take is based on computer Hardware, Software, and Networking. So someone can in fact call themselves a Software Engineer, after you pass the PE exam of course (or if you fall under one of the exceptions). I guess it's my peeve that a lot of people who have BS degrees but don't have PE licenses are quick to say, 'You can't call yourself a software engineer', when in fact they shouldn't even be calling themselves an engineer. Although, I'm not trying to imply that your not a licensed Professional Engineer ReviloTX.

10-07-2005, 07:06 PM	#19
Potterguy Tester Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 37	Good lord, The taped glasses/pocket protector crowd sure ganked this thread. It started off as a pretty informative thread about the qualifications SOE is looking for in some interesting job openings, and got nerd humped into an arguement over the correct deffinition of "engineer". OMG

10-07-2005, 08:40 PM	#20
SkySava Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Indiana USA Posts: 48	I want to applaud SOE for posting this here. Even if the positions are filled with noone who visits these forums it is a really incredible thing that they consider the forum community to be a good place to illicite staff from. This makes me feel pretty good about the admin people there are SOE and especially EQ2. Thank you for recognizing our passion and enthusiasm for this game. __________________ Auron Venh Knights of the Silver Dragon - Unrest Server Feldorm wrote: Hello everyone else, I am “¦Guardian”¦ and I can double the damage our group takes by using my l33t “œprotection” skills! I can root, snare, debuff and cripple myself in 12 different ways, and explode my heart too!

10-07-2005, 09:10 PM	#21
TygerBlueEy General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Everfrost Posts: 51	I'm not asking this for myself. I'm too old to move and my programming skills are dated, but is SOE looking for interns? I know most companies dont like to deal with interns for a lot of reasons. I though I would ask tho. Internship is a great way to learn and build on the job exp. __________________ --- sig Practicing my cultural, heritage, and family practices is my American right.

10-07-2005, 09:32 PM	#22
ShadowplayDarkstar Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 32	sigh ..maybe one day ill have the skill and requirements to apply for such positions. Im already 26 and just ( hopefully) starting school in santa monica in the spring..and then maybe i might transfer to long beach university which has a great art /programming division. Its so impossible when you have to pay for apartments and work a full time job and get no benefits ( ive tried ) from the govt besides loans, everytime i try and join a school ( i was supposed to join Art Institute of oc game design courses on the third but opted out.) something comes up. I decided not to go at the last minute when i recieved a few tip offs from game designers artists that it wasnt a good idea to go to AI for their lack of credit transfers and that most companies want university credits. On a personal note i also opted out because the school still wanted academic classes and my first semester had a bunch of classes that i could easily take at a community college. Why am i going to pay 1000 dollars a class for credits i can pick up for 30 - 60 dollars a class. Not to mention tht the entire school would cost 80k and i received no grants so that would have had to have been paid off eventually. I think i made the right decision ..although i hate to keep pushing back the date....im not getting any younger. Sigh On a slightly nrelated note i was wondering if .. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=grph&message.id=16544 Message Edited by ShadowplayDarkstar on 10-07-2005 10:36 AM

10-07-2005, 09:38 PM	#23
ReviloTX Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 234	Potterguy wrote: Good lord, The taped glasses/pocket protector crowd sure ganked this thread. According to my wife, we are all nerds... but anyways.. Your right though, sorry for ganking the thread. I honestly thought my post would get ignored. Tarkoss, I understand where your coming from, but I disagree to some extent. Obtaining a BS in chemical engineering pretty much makes someone a chemical engineer. A PE is only really needed if your going to go into the design aspect of engineering. Wurtin, I personally don't feel that computer programmers are engineers, but whatever. And you are right, I'm no better then a janitor. But, I'm an engineeer and he's a janitor. No better, no worse of a person, thats just what we are.

10-07-2005, 09:45 PM	#24
ReviloTX Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 234	ShadowplayDarkstar wrote: sigh ..maybe one day ill have the skill and requirements to apply for such positions. Im already 26 and just ( hopefully) starting school in santa monica in the spring..and then maybe i might transfer to long beach university which has a great art /programming division. Its so impossible when you have to pay for apartments and work a full time job and get no benefits ( ive tried ) from the govt besides loans, everytime i try and join a school ( i was supposed to join Art Institute of oc game design courses on the third but opted out.) something comes up. I decided not to go at the last minute when i recieved a few tip offs from game designers artists that it wasnt a good idea to go to AI for their lack of credit transfers and that most companies want university credits. On a personal note i also opted out because the school still wanted academic classes and my first semester had a bunch of classes that i could easily take at a community college. Why am i going to pay 1000 dollars a class for credits i can pick up for 30 - 60 dollars a class. Not to mention tht the entire school would cost 80k and i received no grants so that would have had to have been paid off eventually. I think i made the right decision ..although i hate to keep pushing back the date....im not getting any younger. Message Edited by ShadowplayDarkstar on 10-07-200510:36 AM Nobody said getting a degree was easy. Easier for some than others, but in the end you have to earn it yourself. That's why it means something. I funded myself through college as well. I was reminded of it once a month for 8 years each time I wrote that $400 check to Sallie Mae. I personally think it's worth it though, and would encourage you to do everything you can to reach that goal.

10-07-2005, 09:52 PM	#25
Gallenite Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	Boy, this thread got weird fast. __________________ ____ Scott Hartsman Senior Producer Emeritus, EverQuest II

10-07-2005, 09:54 PM	#26
Gallenite Developer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 169	I'm still going to leave it open just to see where it goes next that's tangentially related to the subject... __________________ ____ Scott Hartsman Senior Producer Emeritus, EverQuest II

10-07-2005, 09:54 PM	#27
OlaeviaTraisharan Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 131	My bad... __________________

10-07-2005, 10:07 PM	#28
naeldayy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 39	Gallenite wrote: I'm still going to leave it open just to see where it goes next that's tangentially related to the subject... I'll go there. Is roleplaying at the office a requirement? __________________ eq.bertox.Naeldayyan

10-07-2005, 10:20 PM	#29
JonasBlackmore Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 41	ReviloTX wrote: Wurtin, I personally don't feel that computer programmers are engineers, but whatever. And you are right, I'm no better then a janitor. But, I'm an engineeer and he's a janitor. No better, no worse of a person, thats just what we are. I am a trained and educated software engineer. I am also a computer programmer. I realize you feel that chemical, civil, mechanical, et al are more "real" forms of engineering, but, by definition, that's not the case. Engineer: a person who is trained in or follows as a profession a branch of engineering Engineering: 1 : to lay out, construct, or manage as an engineer 2 a : to contrive or plan out usually with more or less subtle skill and craft b : to guide the course of As a software engineer, I am charged with the formation of the underlying principles of the software solution I am to design. I then continue forward to construct (i.e. program) the solution. After this point, I must manage (code maintenance) the previously built software package. It requires both skill and craftsmanship to develop a viable and working solution. Now, how, as a Chemical Engineer (or any others), do you do something that would classify you as more of an engineer than that? **** Now, to be on topic, I think it's great that SoE is putting this out there for the community members of their games. It puts all those arm-chair developers in a position to "put up or shut up." So many people post opinions on what the devs should do or how they should have fixed a problem better. Hopefully some of these people will be able to apply and bring their ideas into our world. Personally, I'd love to do it...but I'm really not keen on moving to CA.

10-07-2005, 10:20 PM	#30
Captain_Xpendab General Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: I'M IN THE PHONE BOOK!!! I'M SOMEBODY!!! Posts: 205	Gallenite wrote: Boy, this thread got weird fast. Post it in the NGD, you ain't seen nothin. :smileytongue: __________________ __________________________________________________ ____ "Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters, and you don't like my tie." It's been nice working with you GIR, now self destruct. FINALLY!!!HEhehehehehehehe BOOM "One foozlebit short of a fwinger"