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Old 11-17-2005, 07:46 PM   #31
Iglind

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Wasnt hard to find the words from the SOE big cheeze. :smileyvery-happy:Just to remind SOE's EQ2 staff it is about time they put their work hours into this and end up with some RESULTS.Partial Quote of John Smedley, as posted by Moorgard: "In addition to the issues listed above, you may ask, "What about farming?" The simple answer to this is that we're going to continue to heavily enforce the rules of EQ II, and those rules don't permit players to monopolize spawns or in any way harm the play experience of another player. We will continue to enforce these rules, but we also think that by allowing for a legitimate way for players to buy and sell virtual goods among themselves, there will be fewer problems on the non-Exchange servers."John Smedley Discusses Station Exchangehttp://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pround&message.id=2674
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Old 11-17-2005, 08:33 PM   #32
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Renvhoek wrote:

Caswydian wrote:

Why do you feel the need to engage in such obvious ad hominem arguments?

What it comes down to is that playing multiple accounts is not a violation of the EULA - if I can control 6 characters at once, I can. No one has presented an argument against this, nor is there one because it is not prohibited by SOE. People assume that those who are playing multiple accounts at once are also engaged in other behavior which is prohibited, and while there may be a correlation between such behaviors, the mere presence of the former does not necessitate the latter.


What you are talking about is not botting and is perfectly acceptable, no one is arguing against your point, quite frankly i don't understand why you bring it up. Unfortunately you're blind to what others see as botting (typically to farm platinum and sell it for real money). Botters are very obvious, they rarely log out (except when servers go down), they have insane npc kill totals, they also are rarely on the wealthiest players list (they sell the money the make via farming with bots). My solution:  GET RID OF AUTO-FOLLOW...... yes this is a nice thing and people like to use it, but this could at least be a termporary stop to botting, or at least make it harder for people to bot. I think a previous poster hit the bullseye tho, soe doesn't want to ban anymore botters, there's so many of them and that's a ton of money they would lose.

I could care less if it violates section blah-blah of whatever EULA. The point is these players, whether they are "bots" or "really good at multi-boxing" are disruptive to gameplay for other players and have a high possibility of playing the game not to play it, but to sell plat.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:24 AM   #33
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Sokolov wrote:

Renvhoek wrote:

Caswydian wrote:

Why do you feel the need to engage in such obvious ad hominem arguments?

What it comes down to is that playing multiple accounts is not a violation of the EULA - if I can control 6 characters at once, I can. No one has presented an argument against this, nor is there one because it is not prohibited by SOE. People assume that those who are playing multiple accounts at once are also engaged in other behavior which is prohibited, and while there may be a correlation between such behaviors, the mere presence of the former does not necessitate the latter.


What you are talking about is not botting and is perfectly acceptable, no one is arguing against your point, quite frankly i don't understand why you bring it up. Unfortunately you're blind to what others see as botting (typically to farm platinum and sell it for real money). Botters are very obvious, they rarely log out (except when servers go down), they have insane npc kill totals, they also are rarely on the wealthiest players list (they sell the money the make via farming with bots). My solution:  GET RID OF AUTO-FOLLOW...... yes this is a nice thing and people like to use it, but this could at least be a termporary stop to botting, or at least make it harder for people to bot. I think a previous poster hit the bullseye tho, soe doesn't want to ban anymore botters, there's so many of them and that's a ton of money they would lose.

I could care less if it violates section blah-blah of whatever EULA. The point is these players, whether they are "bots" or "really good at multi-boxing" are disruptive to gameplay for other players and have a high possibility of playing the game not to play it, but to sell plat.

yes, to sell plat, which violates the EULA....,  The part where they are disruptive to gameplay is vague imo. They are disruptive because they sell plat which is against the EULA, but technically most anyway someone spends their gametime can be considered disruptive, i don't agree with that at all.  Players should be able to farm where they want to when they want to.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:44 AM   #34
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Nah, they are disruptive because they permacamp certain areas, making those areas effectively "dead" for others to hunt in.  This is especially annoying when the mobs they target are quest named that happen to drop loot, preventing players from completing said quest in a normal time frame.
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Old 11-18-2005, 01:48 AM   #35
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But camping an area is not exclusive behavior of botters. You need to seperate the different offenses: camping one area is not the same as multi-boxing which is not the same as reselling items or money which is not the same using macros for unattended play. The fact that people conflate these issues makes it that much harder to police because they confuse legitimate playstyles with totally unrelated behavior like plat selling.
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:02 AM   #36
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Yes, yes, we are not morons.  There are perfectly legitimate players who multibox or camp the same mobs.  The point is that said accused "botters" appear (appear, because I am not there all the time) to be at all hours of day, and in the case of the OOLS Mistmoore ones, have been there for at least 6 months.  Any visit to OOLS will, without fail, show their presence there.  Sure, anyone is allowed to permacamp the same mobs with xp turned off for 6 months, and only gain xp when they change the con system so they can be higher level and still get chest drops - but really, it's kind of obvious what is going on.  And given the access quest named mobs are what they camp, it is highly disruptive to the rest of the player base that is attempting to complete say... their Prismatics, or simply hunting there for the experience. Or wait, no, I mean, they are prolly just legit players, sorry Cas, you are right.  *rolls his eyes* Next time I see them down there camping the same mobs, I will tell him hello, and wish them well on their hunt for fabled to sell in their quest to buy nothing. Awesome, Cas, just because they COULD be legit in some other dimension means we shouldn't report highly suspicious behavior or be upset when the broker is FULL of fabled items from these players that you have observed killing the named mob you need 1000 times?
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:05 AM   #37
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Caswydian wrote:But camping an area is not exclusive behavior of botters. You need to seperate the different offenses: camping one area is not the same as multi-boxing which is not the same as reselling items or money which is not the same using macros for unattended play. The fact that people conflate these issues makes it that much harder to police because they confuse legitimate playstyles with totally unrelated behavior like plat selling.

And you know, I never said "camping an area means they are bots." What I was trying to say was, "These players, who might be bots, camp a number of named mobs for an access quest constantly for months on end and are not seen in other zones except in town, seems to be highly disruptive to gameplay to me.  Their behavior is very suspicious and may be linked to plat selling."
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:19 PM   #38
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i have petitioned several bots clans on lucan server , one before i came here..rivervale , sk & inqiu level 36, 2 wizards, 2 warlocks all 4 of them 35 and still not even fully equipped, and what they do have on is trainin robe , training staff, rings from newbie islands etc...
 
playing several accounts is fine, however it is impossible for 1 person to cast repeadlty at same exact time  with out running a macro cheat program..
 
i fell if soe doesnt really get to the core of these macro cheat programs and start bannin people, they are going to end up with only bot programs playing..in long it will be the only moeny soe can generate..
 
there have been oodles of post on botting and still  to this day more of it, sad to think soe is not hearing  us
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Old 11-23-2005, 05:15 AM   #39
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you could easily use a wireless keyboard and 6 different PCs to cast spells at the same time.I don't know if that violates the EULA,but it would be easy to do without the use of macros or botting programs.
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Old 12-09-2005, 05:04 PM   #40
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One month later and very very little is happening... :smileymad:
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Old 12-09-2005, 06:19 PM   #41
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I have yet to hear of a positive experience from reporting obvious bot crews to SOE. I did hear of a great bit of vigilante work by a  friend of mine in the clefts, the new favorite bot spot. My buddy needed the overseer to get access to the upper levels, the problem being that a 60 wizzie bot had taken up permanent residence at the overseer and just nuked the crap out of him the instant he spawned, for days on end since the whacked master drops were implemented. No response to tells etc, finally he even tried to KS a couple spawns so get his quest finished, to no avail, he wasn't fast enough. Soo, this gave him an idea, you can't train on someone, and that would be wrong of course, but there is no reason you can't run past some mobs and then let them beat on you without engaging them while in the view of another player. And if this player instantly targets and zots everything in front of him, well, he is the one who engaged them, like *all* of them. At the speed that one spell recycles... *tabnuke* ..... *tabnuke* ..... *tabnuke* ..... *thud*  Even 60 wizzies die to green mobs when using a single spell randomly targeted at everything in thier vision. I have never seen so obvious an example of unattended play, but he still didnt bother to report it, why go through the hassle, it's like continuously throwing a ball in the air to see when it will finally just stay up. This is the best bot gank though since the SoW trick IMO, and I just had to share it when I came across this thread. There is no way that this can be detrimental to a live player so it can't be considered griefing, just good plain fun.

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Old 12-09-2005, 08:00 PM   #42
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Why do you feel the need to engage in such obvious ad hominem arguments?

What it comes down to is that playing multiple accounts is not a violation of the EULA - if I can control 6 characters at once, I can. No one has presented an argument against this, nor is there one because it is not prohibited by SOE. People assume that those who are playing multiple accounts at once are also engaged in other behavior which is prohibited, and while there may be a correlation between such behaviors, the mere presence of the former does not necessitate the latter.

 

Cas isn't a botter.  He's my ex-wife's lawyer.

 

 

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Old 12-09-2005, 08:09 PM   #43
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Well. Sent in an angry petition about two hours ago, went to Feerrott to start my Quest against these black market groups. And guess what, a CS person showed up and actually did something. Apparently the 4-group were warned, and if they were found botting again i should send another petition to get them permanently banned, the CS person assured that and i do have it screen captured. Strange thing is, half an hour later as i escaped to the Feerrott docks and saw the group standing there doing nothing, they all logged out. And really... in a few weeks these have been farming Forest Creeps in the jungle i have never even seen them log out like that and stay logged out for an hour. So maybe SOE didnt bother to wait and hit the Ban button, i guess time will tell. But i find it sad that one might have to write a really angry and upset petition to get prompt attention to this particular violation of game rules. I hope the CS people dont take it too personal, but as i wrote earlier I and others who bother to send in names dont do it just for fun. I think we do it to get rid of the black market coin, and also in some cases because of the interference plat farmers have on certain areas of the game world. So now i have two bigger groups on Faydark in sight, they will be followed too as soon as they log back in. Even the solo farmers in Clefts and Pillars better watch out because Faydark will be cleaned up. I wont stop until its taken care of, i had enough.
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Old 12-10-2005, 03:56 AM   #44
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Jenoy wrote:

If they are farming plat, they are more than likely selling plat. That is a violation. I figured that the exchange servers would let Sony be more agressive in there approach. At best it let Sony take a cut of the profits.

 




Unless you can prove they are without reasonable doubt then you shouldnt post. How do you know they arnt trying to get high cost items off the broker to resale for more? (only thing I agree with are the people that /report when somebody says they sale for $$ on ebay) other then that lay off them they just want gear and dont raid.

Takes money to make money....

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Old 12-10-2005, 03:58 AM   #45
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Iglindor wrote:
Well. Sent in an angry petition about two hours ago, went to Feerrott to start my Quest against these black market groups. And guess what, a CS person showed up and actually did something. Apparently the 4-group were warned, and if they were found botting again i should send another petition to get them permanently banned, the CS person assured that and i do have it screen captured. Strange thing is, half an hour later as i escaped to the Feerrott docks and saw the group standing there doing nothing, they all logged out. And really... in a few weeks these have been farming Forest Creeps in the jungle i have never even seen them log out like that and stay logged out for an hour. So maybe SOE didnt bother to wait and hit the Ban button, i guess time will tell. But i find it sad that one might have to write a really angry and upset petition to get prompt attention to this particular violation of game rules. I hope the CS people dont take it too personal, but as i wrote earlier I and others who bother to send in names dont do it just for fun. I think we do it to get rid of the black market coin, and also in some cases because of the interference plat farmers have on certain areas of the game world.

So now i have two bigger groups on Faydark in sight, they will be followed too as soon as they log back in. Even the solo farmers in Clefts and Pillars better watch out because Faydark will be cleaned up. I wont stop until its taken care of, i had enough.



Case and point of a person with to much time...
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:54 AM   #46
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Case and point of a person who is trying to protect his own botting... or hopelessly clueless...
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:38 PM   #47
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Case and point of a person who does have any amout of free time, because she owns a succesful Internet and Advertising business and doesnt have to work for a living any more. That in itself means i have brains, yes it does. And the reason i am going after the plat farming mafia, is because i do not like cheaters. I spent a year playing every day to achieve what i have achieved in this game. No looser is going to buy 50 plat off IGE for 200-500 dollars, pay a few hundred more to powerlevel a character to level 50/60, and get ahead of me and others who play within game rules. That is ok on Station Exchange servers, but not on any of the other ones. Personally, i could buy all the plat off IGE any day i feel like it. Amex Platinum 'for teh win' as some people write around here. :smileywink: But that is not ment to be possible, and with enough efforts from Players and CS staff, the plat and leveling services will end up too costly for cheaters to bother paying for. The black market items and services are indeed priced according to how easy it is to do. Forcing them to buy lots of new game boxes and accounts regularly will dent the profitability a lot, because they dont have all that high of a profit margin to begin with. Right after breakfast i am going after the only 6-account botted high-level team left on Faydark. To me its just a question of doing one Quest or another, actively going after the black market is a big quest, but it sure is going to be an interesting one. :smileytongue:
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:21 PM   #48
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Seems they won't take it seriously until Vangaurd Saga of Heroes releases and they watch thier playerbase jump ship to the only company willing to tell IGE where they can shove thier plat farming business.

Hopefully after you're done with faydark you can drop in on Mistmoore we have a bunch of them here that we can't seem to get rid of.

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