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Old 10-20-2015, 01:51 AM   #1
Caith

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In Terror's of Thalumbra, scouts have had a major ability power overhaul, increasing most damage, buffs and debuffs by approximately 30%.

Please post any scout specific questions, feedback or bugs here.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:03 PM   #2
Jrel

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I'm impressed by the adjustments, but none of this will counteract THE FACT that at top end raiding during combat raid lag, we need more WDB and CB for autoattacks since the game will not allow me to use my full 3 CAs inbetween 2.4s autoattacks, or it won't allow me to press 2-3 CAs of my required 5-7 CAs during my Fatal Followup chain, when In Plain Sight or Concealment flat out quits during heavy raid lag.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:26 PM   #3
Jrel

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The WDB to potency reforge rate is currently terrible. It should give an amount of potency at least equivalent to the amount of CB on an item. When I have roughly 2K CB and 2K pot with 100 WDB, 10 WDB is nearly equivalent to 31 pot for me. On the Bold Phantom Chain Helm, it has 30.9 CB and 10 WDB. 10 WDB is close to 31 pot for me. If you use the 78.9 DPS as an equivalent for 10 WDB, then the 10 WDB would be worth ~ 15-16 potency.
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:26 PM   #4
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Well, that is a huge hit on dirges. Why do a cap on CB and WDB? A 30% increase to our CA's does not make up for the new cap on WDB. Dirge abilities don't hit for anything.

Also the reforging pools for going into potency are horrible.
38.7 CB reforges into 5.1 Potency
12.5 WDB reforges into 0.8 Potency

So even if you hit the caps of CB or WDB, reforging out of it gives you a minimal return of Potency.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:18 AM   #5
Doomey

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i understand you guys wanted to make bards more supporty or whatever but i agree. the reforge values are laughable and it's just a straight up nerf to bards whose CA's and spells even with the increase still don't do very much damage.
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Old 10-21-2015, 01:43 AM   #6
Loran

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Eh, I haven't actually done any useful testing with assassin's so far, but the 30% is a bit underwhelming from what I've seen so far on them as well Doomey.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:21 AM   #7
Ogdinmar

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is the assassin abilities in the beast lord knowledge book intended? if so or not what other things where part of the beast lords being brought up?
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:27 AM   #8
Dreadtalon

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I was wondering where I got all those new CA's....
---
Also, please buff Beastlord Pets to Grandmaster instead of Expert, so we have all our Primals to test with - not just the sucky ones. I realize it's only two days until we can /beta our toons over, but until then I'd love to not have to level all those warders again - even with buffed xp gain.

Thank you!

Dreadtalon, a Freetard of Freeport
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:24 AM   #9
Lyricus

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So I might be wrong, but I see almost no change to the Swashbuckler. There are still a butt load of temps, little change to their craptastic CA's, and no real reason to ever want one around for a raid.
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:59 AM   #10
Ruckus

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Pretty much everything going as planned. I had zero hopes in them actually making this class raid-worthy.
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:06 AM   #11
Jokirr

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Yes please to the Grandmaster warders, would really help out for testing.
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Old 10-21-2015, 04:31 AM   #12
Ruckus

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You guys got tons of suggestions about how to make swashbucklers raid-worthy (as well as beastlords) over the past year in these forums, yet people are seeing very little in regards to class improvements.

Please go back and read the suggestions, and do something.
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Old 10-21-2015, 02:58 PM   #13
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Troubadours rely on WDB because about 1/2 of their DPS is from auto. Also our spells hit harder than the few CAs we have so making CA more desirable for the other scouts is great but does nothing for the Troubadours. Need to ensure we get some love this expack.
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Old 10-21-2015, 03:36 PM   #14
Ruckus

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Go read this thread to see that the problems for the swashbuckler class are already cropping up on the TLE servers.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/tle-playing-swashbuckler.564554/#post-6268895

Right the wrong and give the swasbucklers (and beastlords) some love. We've been ignored far too long.
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Old 10-21-2015, 05:01 PM   #15
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i had a chance to start spot checking my brigand ca's today and most seem to be decent boosts that. but overall the cb cap gonna hinder these boost as players start to get endgame gear
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Old 10-22-2015, 07:23 PM   #16
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Please note that the OP mentioned ability damage and not combat art damage...
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:34 PM   #17
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Wonder if they're going to mess with all the huge passive damage poisons are giving atm?
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Old 10-23-2015, 05:07 PM   #18
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According to Gninja, poison damage will still remain a big chunk of our DPS.
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Old 10-23-2015, 05:13 PM   #19
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I haven't been seeing huge poison damage lately myself, 8-14% of my parse which is still sizeable but it's down quite a bit from where it was early aom.
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Old 10-23-2015, 10:55 PM   #20
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There isn't enough analysis to give any meaning to this statement. If other aspects of your class' damage are increasing and poison is staying the same then naturally the percentage of damage poison accounts for should go down. Or the actual poison damage is decreasing and something is wrong. Either way you haven't made any sort of attempt to analyze your parse and make an argument based on that.

Look at your current parse, compare it with your parse from live, then give a more detailed explanation of what you think is going on and how it can be improved. Details make for a convincing argument. Vague notions lack impact.

edit: oh, and mention your class.
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Old 10-24-2015, 12:53 AM   #21
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Kinda hope they let poison damage slowly go down. As a Beastlord it's pretty sad to lose to a Ranger or Assassin just because of poisons literally and the t2 bragging about aoe fights (Swashies mainly) just because of poisons. Not to mention Beastlords are the ONLY scout dps class to not get a self mimic... really? Every other t1/t2 got a form of self mimic they could use during a good chain, Beastlords got a 5% base boost to pot and cb, lmao. I can still top parses above through serious luck based off CB hits because of the restrictions as a Beastlord toward mainly passive extra damage every other chain DPS have. The only sad thing is I can only top my damage off at an average of 80mil because I don't have the extra random high hitters from a shadow or poison. The new CB cap is going to hurt since I personally relied on it a lot so I could keep up. Would really love to see some Beastlord changes come up. One of the more major ones being hate control since we are the only DPS scout yet again without it and topping the damage parse at around 60mil per single target fight hurts because it's torture for the tanks and me since I have to stop mid fight to let my threat go down. The only reason I can even be in a raid guild of any sort (not high end because ofc they don't want a BL) is because of my damage output. The whole new thing about potency does not help whatsoever when I can personally spike to about 3k already because of all the potency stuff we get from aa's, jewelry, and our 3 base potency increases(5%,20%,25%) and additional bonuses from other classes.
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Old 10-24-2015, 02:05 AM   #22
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I've pretty much switched from being an AoE class wearing ab mod gear to wearing WDB for fights that have 1-4 mobs on every fight. The only benefit for being a traditional AoE class that swashbucklers get is to help clear trash in raid zones faster...oh boy look I DPSed a lot on trash, but that really isn't that big of a challenge. It takes no skill to faceroll 5 blue AoE buttons.

Nearly every fight over the past few expansions has been single target, or single target with a few adds that come running in to get burned down fast, then back to DPSing on the boss.

Once again, the requests to make swashbucklers raid-worthy for a spot on a raid roster has gone ignored.

Poisons should be removed from the game. The combat art damage that scouts should get should be bumped up and aligned with mages. If that can't be done, then bump up our combat art damage to be on par with mage spell damage and then make a new sort of item that only mages can use...then they can pay for their DPS and debuffs like the 4 poison-using scouts.
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Old 10-24-2015, 01:07 PM   #23
Karsa

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The current design goal is to bring them back to the forefront of Tier 1 DPS.
Cannot/will not say anymore.
Kander, Jun 10, 2015
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Old 10-24-2015, 09:15 PM   #24
Estarion

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They raised Feral Rending more than a twice. Hadn't tested it yet but tooltips promises a really big numbers. And they boosted pet HP. Dont know why, sharing resists is a much better idea. Healing up the pet after chest trap now takes much longer. If they add a ticking dots to encounters in the expansion like it was at named fights in contested Ossuary, there will be an issue.
But thats all.
All our suggestions seems to be ignored, there are some of them.
  • Draconic Breath must be 8 targets, beastlord is extremely lack of aoe dps. BL is the worst dps class on aoe fights without any doubts. Why? Only 2 high hitting blue aoes and one of them is semiuseful. Both blue primals do not proc Primal Assault, Truespirits Understanding/Feral Whirl and Feral Fangs even for one target. So what is the reason of Draconic Breath to hit only 4 targets?
  • And sure a boost of Feral Rending can't help us on aoe fight. There should be a blue advantage in the four slot. With or instead greens no matter. Green aoes? What is it? I have a capped sin, and brig betrayed from swash, none of them have ever hear about green aoes. More so how many encounters with a 4+ linked mobs? And with 8 linked mobs? At the same time sin have a Hemo which activates at all 8 linked or not targets from literally every first blue aoe that he cast. The same story with brig and swash, except their trigger rates a bit lower.
  • Chillbarrier. Come on guys. It was broken, it's still broken and it will be broken it seems. Hope not. Funny thing today in tooltips the value of Chillbarrier had increased almost twice, but in fact it's still nothing. There is a fight with 2 Far Seas guards in Phantom Sea, savagery lvl 6, spirituality lvl 3, btw expert pets is a very very very bad idea for beta test, you know?
[IMG]
  • There is a non fight prebuff savagery lvl 3, spirituality lvl 0, 1.5k pot. 6432, oh my. Doubt the 6 lvl of spirituality and savagery would multiply it by 100+
[IMG]
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:43 PM   #25
Jrel

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Beastlord suggestions: This is from a right-side prestige Feral-stance standpoint. Need a real top raiding BL to comment, but from what I can tell of my BL on beta, damage increase from primals still need to come up another 9%.

Savagery needs to be able to hit level 6 in 6-7.2 seconds to enable them to compete with current top-raiding T1 DPS. This could be accomplished through AAs or Advantage hits, or a combination of both. This is the time benchmark top raiding BLs need to be at, to be able to dps at their peak. Since, on live servers, it takes me about 18 seconds to hit Savagery 6 with Unchained Ferocity, warder Advantages, and Rallisk's Insight, this means the savagery gains from these abilities combined should be tripled, or adjusted somehow to allow BLs to hit 6 that fast.

Savagery 6 also needs to stay at level 6 through 7.2 seconds (if 6 primals are used inbetween 2.4s autos), and to be able to reach 6 again in another 22.8s (which should be easy if they burst to 6 in 7.2 seconds is done again). Primals are on a cycle of 30 seconds with 100% reuse.

Primals with pre-reqs of stealth need to have their damage increased with the stealh requirement removed, or Savagery 6 needs to last an additional 2.4 seconds to allow BLs to be able to use their stealth Primals while Savagery 6 is active. Primal Assault and Rallisk's Insight should have recast of 3 minutes.

BLs need T1 DPS-level hate transfer and better dehate tools and health debuffs to be useful in raid. Pure ranged fights should not disallow them from their full potential unless BLs are meant to be primarily melee-based damage.
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Old 10-25-2015, 10:28 PM   #26
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Savagery isn't, and has never been, the real problem. Feral Rampage stacks are the problem. It is lost on death, has an incredibly short rapidly decaying duration, and is "hard gated" at 30+ seconds before activation.

On any encounter with a duration exceeding 30 seconds, the beastlord needs to "lag" a primal to refresh the duration on Feral Rampage. This is typically noxious grasp cast at the start of the encounter approximately 10 seconds before the rest of the primal chain. Failure to "lag" a primal to refresh this buff is a huge damage loss. The existence of Feral Rampage, and the significance of the primal multiplier, in combination with feral intensity stacks is what makes the BL class a PITA to play.

but, as I said in another thread, they could deal double the damage of an assassin and still be useless in raid from a mathematical perspective. The utility simply isn't there, and right now the damage isn't either.
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Old 10-26-2015, 12:07 AM   #27
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I forgot about Feral Rampage. It is similar to trying to get 12 stacks of the assassin's left-side prestige, Nightblade's Intensity. It would be great if they both were simply made an ability, 1 minute recast, but DB wants us to manage increments. On the BL side, the stack amount could be lessened by 1 or 2 (whatever it takes) to feasibly enable BLs to reach Feral Pain within 25 seconds. There is nothing more maddening than when an Advantage isn't available in-between 2.4s autoattackss (which happens to me 33%+ of the time).
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:13 AM   #28
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Feral Intensity is similar. Feral Rampage is completely different.


Microing Feral Rampage, Intensity, Savagery, and the pet is incredibly taxing. Add the new ethereals effects (which are less than favorable due to their dependence on transient buffs) and omniscience becomes required to play the class correctly.
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Old 10-26-2015, 01:52 AM   #29
Estarion

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Savagery was and is the real big problem of beastlord. What I would like to see is reverse Savagery bar just like the channeller's one.
Savagery should raise to max between actions, not dissipates. And amount of savagery drain should be massively decreased.
When lagging, and you should know, raiding is always lagging more or less, there is hardly possible to keep savagery at lvl 4+ just to have a chance to cast the 6th slot primal and also 5th slot if you for some reason still use this 4 targets useless Draconic Breath. You have to use more and more additional advantages between primals to get savagery back to at least 5 and it breaks the rythm, buff window shifts more and more until once it gone out of range.
Feral Rampage should be reworked totally too. Hold an interval between primals for maintain the 6 lvl Feral Rampage? C'mon, this game is about temps.
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Old 10-26-2015, 03:34 AM   #30
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Quick math lesson, Xelgad's post for reference.
tl;dr math:
"hold" primal: 1 + 6*.1*2 + 6*.1*2 = 3.4x
"spam" primal: 1 + 6*.1*2 + 1/6 (0 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5)*.1*2 = 2.45x

Neglecting ability mod shenanigans, if you "spam" you're missing 28% of your damage. Yes, noxious grasp isn't cast during "teh temps" but even if it did zero damage the "hold" method would be superior (5/6 = 83%, 2.45/3.4 = 72%, 83% > 72%).

However noxious grasp does non-zero damage when cast outside temps. The hold method isn't just better, it is way better.
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