Mage - Feedback and Bugs

Caith · 10-20-2015, 01:55 AM

Please post any mage specific questions, feedback or bugs here.

Mogrim · 10-20-2015, 09:18 PM

Quick Response to Focused Casting:

So I had an initial reply, but now I see more what is going on. Focused Casting (and warlocks, by extension) was massively nerfed.

On one hand, we have to itemize for lower CB so we don't exceed cap. As a result, gaining 25% of our base CB into extra Pot is going to be non-linear based on logical itemization.

On the other hand, we're still getting 50% base CB, so essentially we're capped at 2000 CB self buffed, which means the ability is capped at roughly 1000CB and 500pot. That means the ability no longer scales, it becomes linear, and it means over the long-haul, the class will no longer be playable.

10-20-2015, 09:18 PM

Noticed Illusionists now have a new Spell named Pall of the Elements (Apprentice).
Is this a new Mage/Enchanter or Illusionist Spell?
Will we eventually be able to research higher levels of the spell?
Are there any other new class spells/abilities we should be expecting?

10-20-2015, 09:20 PM

Pall of the Elements was the DoV class-debuff thing from Tower x2

Mogrim · 10-20-2015, 09:51 PM

I updated the feedback.

Essentially, the changes to Focused Casting mean it no longer scales, it becomes a linear temp buff that gives at most 1k crit bonus and 500 potency.

The best way to fix is is to make it so Focused Casting gives something like 40% more potency based on //base potency// 35% more crit bonus based on //base crit bonus//

Making the potency aspect tied to a stat that is effectively capped at 2000 seems to be contrary to the true intention of the ability.

Enigma · 10-20-2015, 10:06 PM

Seems to me like FC changes are exactly what they need to be where it scales but does not scale super good like it use to and eventually hits a scale stop. It's a good change and something needed to be done about it.

10-20-2015, 10:13 PM

It does not scale at all once the cap is reached that's it.

Mogrim · 10-20-2015, 10:14 PM

It doesn't scale the numbers of 500pot/1000cb are the best case numbers. That means it doesn't scale. As stats grow, this ability will not. I have already been able to get benefits of roughly 3000cb from Focused Casting as it currently functions.

The changes mean the Focused Casting no longer is a linear ability and it is half as strong as where it currently used to be.

Mogrim · 10-20-2015, 10:14 PM

Right, which is can already be reached easily. That means it //already// isn't going to scale anymore.

Enigma · 10-20-2015, 10:17 PM

I like that it won't scale after you hit the scale cap Smile

Enigma · 10-20-2015, 10:18 PM

Maybe the warlock relics will be your game changer and you won't have to be so reliant on FC to dish out the deeps.

Daray · 10-20-2015, 10:21 PM

Not really surprised to see focused casting get hit given how strong it is.

Though not sure how I feel about this whole artificial cap thing on CB and WDB, just yet. There has to be a better way.

Mogrim · 10-20-2015, 10:21 PM

Except that I was already above the scale cap roughly 3-4 months ago.

Lare · 10-20-2015, 10:30 PM

Emigma dont think you get it. Nerfing FC so it stops scaling means there will come a point where warlocks become broke. At what point in this expansion will be depend on stat mud flation etc.

FC has been the only thing keeping the loc functional sure if might have gone to far one way but to caped it is capping their DPS and will break the class over time.

And in raid I sit on about 1700Cb and we only just got into AoM so its wont be long and I'm sure better geared loc's are there now or close.

It needs to be balanced or they need to fix other parts of the class so its not reliant on the ability in the first place. Which they have not even look at.

Daray · 10-20-2015, 10:53 PM

Well to elaborate on my previous point, I'm not exactly sure what imposing artificial caps is trying to achieve.

Focused Casting: If you want to adjust this, just adjust the values on the ability itself.
Melee damage vs CA damage: If you want to adjust this, just adjust the base values of weapon damage and base on CA damage.

There's no reason to impose caps, unless I am missing something.

Lare · 10-20-2015, 11:09 PM

What it means is that once you hit the 2000 cb mark during FC any gains in gear or abilities that gives you cb becomes meaningless and we all know that 99% of all the locs dps is in that spike this change is capping the dps of a lock. Sure while FC is down you will get more dps through gear but its not even going to be close. Basically you have caped the dps of the loc with really no upside it wont take long to see this!

Mogrim · 10-20-2015, 11:09 PM

In fairness, these changes are in their infancy and I'm sure Caith will be looking for more feedback and testing regarding these things.

10-20-2015, 11:10 PM

This made focus casting basically useless once you are able to obtain high cb. The reforge value of cb to potency is so bad, 16.2 cb reforges to 6 potency. In order to make fc useful warlocks will have to try to stay at around 2k cb to take full advantage of fc. If gaining 3k cb in raid setup isn't hard for other classes to achieve than warlock will be sitting at 2k cb ( in order to take advantage of fc ) while the rest of the raid sits at 3k. So in other words warlocks during fc rotation will gain the same cb that the rest of the raid has static and gain an extra 750 potency. Staying at 2k cb is going to lower warlocks dps for a number of reasons not just for the fact of being at 2k cb for 95% of the time. It limits our reforge choice to going from cb to potency, which will directly lower our ability mod. Essentially they changed fc to a lesser version of spellbind. Longer reuse and capped at 750 potency where as spellbind has no cap.

BOOM BOOM FC

Mogrim · 10-20-2015, 11:12 PM

Another solution (just brainstorming random ideas here) is to allow Focused Casting to temporarily raise the hardcap of Crit Bonus for the Warlock up to 4500 (thus allowing the 50% to always apply, while still capping the potency gain to 750)

Anunnaki · 10-21-2015, 12:35 AM

The cap is what neuters FC the most. With the cap, FC in its beta state is actually better than it would be on live. Kinda curious why the cap on CB. I could understand WDB, but not sure why CB is capped.

Too hard to do any real testing until /copy is opened.

10-21-2015, 03:36 AM

At some point, every class will reach the 3k cb cap, some classes will take longer then others, but we will all get there eventually. Warlocks who rely on FC will just get there sooner then others.

Putting aside how massive of a nerf this is for locks. I am amazed you would put in an artificial cap on something in this game. Everquest has seen massive stat inflation in every thing. hp / attribute / cb / pot etc, its part of the treadmill of gearing whit every xpac. What will happen in 2 xpacs and we all reach the 3k cap. Will you raise it again? This is so shortsighted, words faill me.

Hey guys we dont like how infalted plat has become, so now we are capping how much money one character can cary around lol.

Lare · 10-21-2015, 04:26 AM

Its not a matter of how fast we get there FC is the only thing that has been keeping the warlock viable since they changed it from Double Cast.

Were it is at now will potentially screw the class completely its like removing Fiery blast from the wizard or removing communion & Eb from conjies. Sure it wont be so obvious at the start of the expansion but if left the way it is it will be obvious very fast. I accept this is only beta but unless they play with it a bit its going too far. They would have been better just converting the CB portion to full potency at 80% or something. It needs to scale so that we can actually get the benefit from the current gear now let alone what is coming from the expansion.

Veta · 10-21-2015, 05:44 AM

Lol. This looks like a copy/paste from one of mogrim's previous posts in the last FC thread. Comparing ability to ability is fun. "This is like removing EB+...." You are not having an ability taken away, it is being changed. I am surprised that DBG keeps altering an ability for you to scale so well.

Thand · 10-21-2015, 06:17 AM

Hopeful they fixed Conj pets not being able top attack certain mobs

Lare · 10-21-2015, 06:25 AM

Veta its not change that I have an issue with if you took the time to understand what this change is you would understand where we are coming from rather than just say what you are!

10-21-2015, 12:11 PM

I'm not entirely sure what you mean veta, this ability is being changed from scaling to being capped...

Veta · 10-21-2015, 12:44 PM

Wow. I understand it is a nerf. I am sure I have been nerfed plenty of times to know what a nerf is. You should not compare ability to ability though, it does not do much for you. As the class as a whole conj to warlock I am sure I could provide some ability to ability comparisons to make it look like something is extremely bad like shattered earth to apocalypse.

Yes. He stated changing FC is like removing FB from a wizard or Communion/EB from a conj. You will still receive potency and crit bonus. Obviously not as much crit bonus as before. Its not like you are receiving anything because of a stat cap.

It was stated before in the first FC thread that "the gains are negligible." If the gains are so small, then whats the big deal? Seems the opinions have changed all of a sudden.

10-21-2015, 12:59 PM

I never stated the gains were negligable. Fc is the only reason a warlock can parse, they are a spike damage dps and have very low sustained dps. If they keep the change the way it is, warlock as a class will eventually die.Eq2 has other classes to play.

Lare · 10-21-2015, 01:13 PM

Veta you are just arguing. Part of being in beta is to discuss the outcome of changes and Warlocks have taken a massive nerf that potentialy makes them obsolete. Whether you agree or not warlocks are a one trick pony removing what allowed them to shine, Changing how FC works needs to be done so it doesn't screws the class completely over!

Your feed back on the class when you don't play one really is just subjective bias!

Veta · 10-21-2015, 01:36 PM

You werent playing during ToV beta when it was changed. The current warlocks at the time stated the gains were negligible.

I just stated how you copied/pasted a mogrim post. I also stated I am surprised they keep changing this one ability everytime something new changes with stats whether it is an increase or a cap. You should not compare ability to ability. Thats not even feedback for your class.

Yes, they had to change how it works otherwise you would be whining if it only gave crit conus with a hard cap on crit bonus. At least it is giving you something instead of nothing.

Also, now I am really curious. How do you know if I have played one or not? Because my main's signature is a conj apparentally means I do not play one or should I add all of my alts to my signature to let everyone know who/what I have played? I am starting to feel a "oh if you played one you would know why its bad" comment coming.

10-20-2015, 10:06 PM	#6
Enigma Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Mogrim said: ↑ “I updated the feedback. Essentially, the changes to Focused Casting mean it no longer scales, it becomes a linear temp buff that gives at most 1k crit bonus and 500 potency. The best way to fix is is to make it so Focused Casting gives something like 40% more potency based on //base potency// 35% more crit bonus based on //base crit bonus// Making the potency aspect tied to a stat that is effectively capped at 2000 seems to be contrary to the true intention of the ability.” Seems to me like FC changes are exactly what they need to be where it scales but does not scale super good like it use to and eventually hits a scale stop. It's a good change and something needed to be done about it.

10-20-2015, 10:14 PM	#8
Mogrim Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Enigma said: ↑ “Seems to me like FC changes are exactly what they need to be where it scales but does not scale super good like it use to. It's a good change and something needed to be done about it.” It doesn't scale the numbers of 500pot/1000cb are the best case numbers. That means it doesn't scale. As stats grow, this ability will not. I have already been able to get benefits of roughly 3000cb from Focused Casting as it currently functions. The changes mean the Focused Casting no longer is a linear ability and it is half as strong as where it currently used to be.

10-20-2015, 10:14 PM	#9
Mogrim Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Yards said: ↑ “It does not scale at all once the cap is reached that's it.” Right, which is can already be reached easily. That means it //already// isn't going to scale anymore.

10-20-2015, 10:21 PM	#13
Mogrim Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Enigma said: ↑ “I like that it won't scale after you hit the scale cap ” Except that I was already above the scale cap roughly 3-4 months ago.

10-21-2015, 04:26 AM	#22
Lare New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	“At some point, every class will reach the 3k cb cap, some classes will take longer then others, but we will all get there eventually. Warlocks who rely on FC will just get there sooner then others.” Its not a matter of how fast we get there FC is the only thing that has been keeping the warlock viable since they changed it from Double Cast. Were it is at now will potentially screw the class completely its like removing Fiery blast from the wizard or removing communion & Eb from conjies. Sure it wont be so obvious at the start of the expansion but if left the way it is it will be obvious very fast. I accept this is only beta but unless they play with it a bit its going too far. They would have been better just converting the CB portion to full potency at 80% or something. It needs to scale so that we can actually get the benefit from the current gear now let alone what is coming from the expansion.

10-20-2015, 01:55 AM	#1
Caith Developer Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Please post any mage specific questions, feedback or bugs here.

10-20-2015, 09:18 PM	#2
Mogrim Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Quick Response to Focused Casting: So I had an initial reply, but now I see more what is going on. Focused Casting (and warlocks, by extension) was massively nerfed. On one hand, we have to itemize for lower CB so we don't exceed cap. As a result, gaining 25% of our base CB into extra Pot is going to be non-linear based on logical itemization. On the other hand, we're still getting 50% base CB, so essentially we're capped at 2000 CB self buffed, which means the ability is capped at roughly 1000CB and 500pot. That means the ability no longer scales, it becomes linear, and it means over the long-haul, the class will no longer be playable.

10-20-2015, 09:18 PM	#3
Tekila New Member Posts: n/a	Noticed Illusionists now have a new Spell named Pall of the Elements (Apprentice). Is this a new Mage/Enchanter or Illusionist Spell? Will we eventually be able to research higher levels of the spell? Are there any other new class spells/abilities we should be expecting?

10-20-2015, 09:20 PM	#4
Loran Member Posts: n/a	Pall of the Elements was the DoV class-debuff thing from Tower x2

10-20-2015, 09:51 PM	#5
Mogrim Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	I updated the feedback. Essentially, the changes to Focused Casting mean it no longer scales, it becomes a linear temp buff that gives at most 1k crit bonus and 500 potency. The best way to fix is is to make it so Focused Casting gives something like 40% more potency based on //base potency// 35% more crit bonus based on //base crit bonus// Making the potency aspect tied to a stat that is effectively capped at 2000 seems to be contrary to the true intention of the ability.

10-20-2015, 10:13 PM	#7
Yards Member Posts: n/a	It does not scale at all once the cap is reached that's it.

10-20-2015, 10:17 PM	#10
Enigma Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	I like that it won't scale after you hit the scale cap

10-20-2015, 10:18 PM	#11
Enigma Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Maybe the warlock relics will be your game changer and you won't have to be so reliant on FC to dish out the deeps.

10-20-2015, 10:21 PM	#12
Daray Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Not really surprised to see focused casting get hit given how strong it is. Though not sure how I feel about this whole artificial cap thing on CB and WDB, just yet. There has to be a better way.

10-20-2015, 10:30 PM	#14
Lare New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Emigma dont think you get it. Nerfing FC so it stops scaling means there will come a point where warlocks become broke. At what point in this expansion will be depend on stat mud flation etc. FC has been the only thing keeping the loc functional sure if might have gone to far one way but to caped it is capping their DPS and will break the class over time. And in raid I sit on about 1700Cb and we only just got into AoM so its wont be long and I'm sure better geared loc's are there now or close. It needs to be balanced or they need to fix other parts of the class so its not reliant on the ability in the first place. Which they have not even look at.

10-20-2015, 10:53 PM	#15
Daray Well-Known Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Well to elaborate on my previous point, I'm not exactly sure what imposing artificial caps is trying to achieve. Focused Casting: If you want to adjust this, just adjust the values on the ability itself. Melee damage vs CA damage: If you want to adjust this, just adjust the base values of weapon damage and base on CA damage. There's no reason to impose caps, unless I am missing something.

10-20-2015, 11:09 PM	#16
Lare New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	What it means is that once you hit the 2000 cb mark during FC any gains in gear or abilities that gives you cb becomes meaningless and we all know that 99% of all the locs dps is in that spike this change is capping the dps of a lock. Sure while FC is down you will get more dps through gear but its not even going to be close. Basically you have caped the dps of the loc with really no upside it wont take long to see this!

10-20-2015, 11:10 PM	#18
Yards Member Posts: n/a	This made focus casting basically useless once you are able to obtain high cb. The reforge value of cb to potency is so bad, 16.2 cb reforges to 6 potency. In order to make fc useful warlocks will have to try to stay at around 2k cb to take full advantage of fc. If gaining 3k cb in raid setup isn't hard for other classes to achieve than warlock will be sitting at 2k cb ( in order to take advantage of fc ) while the rest of the raid sits at 3k. So in other words warlocks during fc rotation will gain the same cb that the rest of the raid has static and gain an extra 750 potency. Staying at 2k cb is going to lower warlocks dps for a number of reasons not just for the fact of being at 2k cb for 95% of the time. It limits our reforge choice to going from cb to potency, which will directly lower our ability mod. Essentially they changed fc to a lesser version of spellbind. Longer reuse and capped at 750 potency where as spellbind has no cap. BOOM BOOM FC

10-20-2015, 11:12 PM	#19
Mogrim Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	Another solution (just brainstorming random ideas here) is to allow Focused Casting to temporarily raise the hardcap of Crit Bonus for the Warlock up to 4500 (thus allowing the 50% to always apply, while still capping the potency gain to 750)

10-21-2015, 12:35 AM	#20
Anunnaki Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 1	The cap is what neuters FC the most. With the cap, FC in its beta state is actually better than it would be on live. Kinda curious why the cap on CB. I could understand WDB, but not sure why CB is capped. Too hard to do any real testing until /copy is opened.

10-21-2015, 03:36 AM	#21
Naga New Member Posts: n/a	At some point, every class will reach the 3k cb cap, some classes will take longer then others, but we will all get there eventually. Warlocks who rely on FC will just get there sooner then others. Putting aside how massive of a nerf this is for locks. I am amazed you would put in an artificial cap on something in this game. Everquest has seen massive stat inflation in every thing. hp / attribute / cb / pot etc, its part of the treadmill of gearing whit every xpac. What will happen in 2 xpacs and we all reach the 3k cap. Will you raise it again? This is so shortsighted, words faill me. Hey guys we dont like how infalted plat has become, so now we are capping how much money one character can cary around lol.

10-21-2015, 05:44 AM	#23
Veta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Lare said: ↑ “Its not a matter of how fast we get there FC is the only thing that has been keeping the warlock viable since they changed it from Double Cast. Were it is at now will potentially screw the class completely its like removing Fiery blast from the wizard or removing communion & Eb from conjies. Sure it wont be so obvious at the start of the expansion but if left the way it is it will be obvious very fast. I accept this is only beta but unless they play with it a bit its going too far. They would have been better just converting the CB portion to full potency at 80% or something. It needs to scale so that we can actually get the benefit from the current gear now let alone what is coming from the expansion.” Lol. This looks like a copy/paste from one of mogrim's previous posts in the last FC thread. Comparing ability to ability is fun. "This is like removing EB+...." You are not having an ability taken away, it is being changed. I am surprised that DBG keeps altering an ability for you to scale so well.

10-21-2015, 06:17 AM	#24
Thand Active Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Hopeful they fixed Conj pets not being able top attack certain mobs

10-21-2015, 06:25 AM	#25
Lare New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Veta its not change that I have an issue with if you took the time to understand what this change is you would understand where we are coming from rather than just say what you are!

10-21-2015, 12:11 PM	#26
Yards Member Posts: n/a	I'm not entirely sure what you mean veta, this ability is being changed from scaling to being capped...

10-21-2015, 12:44 PM	#27
Veta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Lare said: ↑ “Veta its not change that I have an issue with if you took the time to understand what this change is you would understand where we are coming from rather than just say what you are!” Wow. I understand it is a nerf. I am sure I have been nerfed plenty of times to know what a nerf is. You should not compare ability to ability though, it does not do much for you. As the class as a whole conj to warlock I am sure I could provide some ability to ability comparisons to make it look like something is extremely bad like shattered earth to apocalypse. Yards said: ↑ “I'm not entirely sure what you mean veta, this ability is being changed from scaling to being capped...” Yes. He stated changing FC is like removing FB from a wizard or Communion/EB from a conj. You will still receive potency and crit bonus. Obviously not as much crit bonus as before. Its not like you are receiving anything because of a stat cap. It was stated before in the first FC thread that "the gains are negligible." If the gains are so small, then whats the big deal? Seems the opinions have changed all of a sudden.

10-21-2015, 12:59 PM	#28
Yards Member Posts: n/a	I never stated the gains were negligable. Fc is the only reason a warlock can parse, they are a spike damage dps and have very low sustained dps. If they keep the change the way it is, warlock as a class will eventually die.Eq2 has other classes to play.

10-21-2015, 01:13 PM	#29
Lare New Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Veta you are just arguing. Part of being in beta is to discuss the outcome of changes and Warlocks have taken a massive nerf that potentialy makes them obsolete. Whether you agree or not warlocks are a one trick pony removing what allowed them to shine, Changing how FC works needs to be done so it doesn't screws the class completely over! Your feed back on the class when you don't play one really is just subjective bias!

10-21-2015, 01:36 PM	#30
Veta Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 0	Yards said: ↑ “I never stated the gains were negligable. Fc is the only reason a warlock can parse, they are a spike damage dps and have very low sustained dps. If they keep the change the way it is, warlock as a class will eventually die.Eq2 has other classes to play.” You werent playing during ToV beta when it was changed. The current warlocks at the time stated the gains were negligible. Lare said: ↑ “Veta you are just arguing. Part of being in beta is to discuss the outcome of changes and Warlocks have taken a massive nerf that potentialy makes them obsolete. Whether you agree or not warlocks are a one trick pony removing what allowed them to shine, Changing how FC works needs to be done so it doesn't screws the class completely over! Your feed back on the class when you don't play one really is just subjective bias!” I just stated how you copied/pasted a mogrim post. I also stated I am surprised they keep changing this one ability everytime something new changes with stats whether it is an increase or a cap. You should not compare ability to ability. Thats not even feedback for your class. Yes, they had to change how it works otherwise you would be whining if it only gave crit conus with a hard cap on crit bonus. At least it is giving you something instead of nothing. Also, now I am really curious. How do you know if I have played one or not? Because my main's signature is a conj apparentally means I do not play one or should I add all of my alts to my signature to let everyone know who/what I have played? I am starting to feel a "oh if you played one you would know why its bad" comment coming.