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Old 10-18-2014, 10:50 PM   #31
Kari

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I tested ward crits a little bit this afternoon and could not get any of the new crits.

Crit chance was 879.9. I stayed out of combat to minimize procs and just cast my single target ward on myself 400 times.

ward amount 127,763 = normal ward 261 occurrences
ward amount 129,045 = normal ward with tribal spirit proc 51 occurrences
ward amount 130,448 = normal ward with reification proc 75 occurrences
ward amount 131,771 = normal ward with tribal spirit and reicification proc 13 occurrences.

Total wards 400 = no legendary, fabled or mythical crits.

Got kicked while making the bug report. Frown
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:37 PM   #32
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I ran a few tests myself as defiler on wards and the new critical system. I consistently had the same ward amount over approximately 100 casts (no legendary, fabled or mythical criticals).

I reran the test over a smaller sample of 50 casts, only casting Cannibalize first--both of my attached heals (defiler AA focus for Ancient Shroud and mythical proc) would legendary and fabled critical at the same time (4 times in that small sample set) but the ward amounts never changed. While I might believe that the attached heals and ward would calculate differently for chance to critical, I would've expected at least one legendary/fabled/mythical critical across that sample set given the number of attached heals were affected.

Either I was incredibly unlucky or wards simply aren't affected by the legendary/fabled/mythical critical system currently.

I had meant to create a bug report after noticing but didn't get a chance--will do so next time I'm in game.
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Old 10-19-2014, 01:22 AM   #33
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I'm really liking Spirit Shackle. I used it in a heroic zone the other night and the healing it put out was pretty impressive. The only concern I have is the "This spell can only be maintained on one enemy at a time" It sounds to me that if you have 2 shamans, and 1 mob, only 1 shamans group will be able to benefit from Spirit Shackle. Which would cause this new ability to lose a lot of its appeal. Unless every encounter has multiple mobs that are alive longer than 30 sec (reoccurring adds)

I'm a bit torn on where I stand on the current state of the crits in terms of effecting wards and heals. As far as I can tell, going from 95-100 did not improve my HP much at all. If this stays the case, then healing would be totally overpowered if the crit system applied to it. I'm assuming that as our gear improves so will our pot/cb/amod so it will be able to stay inline with the increased HP gains. If it doesn't then I got nothing lol
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:06 PM   #34
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Not to repeat what I said at length almost a year ago regarding wards, but I don't think the problem lies with the raw HPS potential of shamans - and instead moreso with how the wards (their supposed primary form of healing) are consumed. It just doesn't lend itself anywhere near as well to healing sustained damage (as druids/clerics). In other words, I am talking more about the playability of the class, not the potential.

Sure, as things currently stand, you can toss a ward on your group, have it gone in the blink of an eye, and then find yourself scrambling for secondary tools to try to plug the gap (and probably having to resort to the likes of ancestral channeling and totemic). Doesn't really sound like much fun, especially when you have to consider fitting in your debuffing/buffing role somewhere.

The more logical way of dealing with wards, would be to have them operate a bit more like reactives (e.g. warding x amount per hit for however many triggers). It doesn't have to be the same mechanic as reactives (just for illustrative purposes), but the point would be to introduce a time/duration element to wards, such that wards are taking the edge off incoming damage at a lesser value / over a longer time period, and allowing you to better use your secondary tools to actually sustain the damage taken. (Or adding a "Negative Void" style toggle/option they can use to convert their wards into the above~ ).

Still not entirely sure of the purpose of the crit penalty on wards. That would seem to suggest that wards are still considered too strong, and while that would have been the case prior to ToV, the reality now is rather different. Yeah, you can't compare class tools in an isolated environment, but it's not like the healing potential of a shaman's primary group ward even approaches that of a clerics' primary group reactive / druid primary group hot.
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:13 PM   #35
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I think one of the biggest problems with shamans right now isn't even with shamans. In the past a shaman was most importantly used to keep the tank alive, and the entirety of the group ward would be taken by the tank taking an auto attack. But now since good tanks don't take much (if any) damage to begin with...
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:42 PM   #36
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Thankyou God for Soul Shackle Smile

The duration, initial ward and regen/tick fills the spam group heal button while waiting for group ward/totemic to come back up gap nicely tyvm.

I will shut up nao.
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:45 PM   #37
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It definitely stacks, tested it today. If it hadn't you'd have heard me screaming from the othe side of the planet Tongue
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:45 PM   #38
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Question is....can it myth crit?
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:02 PM   #39
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holy mother of ****, I must say thank you Xelgad for making the class fun again, at least with the zone buffs (which apparently seem to equal endgame AoM raid gear) I was going for 2+ mil. grp wards and 1+ mil single target, also soul shackle hit for 700k a few times.
now we talking sir! group wards shouldve always belonged somewhere near the tanks buffed HP...finally!
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:15 PM   #40
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Love the ward power increase and seeing that maybe we will need to balance pot/cb now
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:05 AM   #41
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The size of the wards has not changed their useabilty since the mobs just hit for more, it's all relative still.

i.e. a 1.7mil wards still only lasts for 2 seconds.

Kiryalis's Lunar Attendant's Oracle's Blessing heals Canthx for a Fabled critical of 84161 hit points.

dat bear ^^
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:03 AM   #42
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listen, if our group wards equal, more or less, the tanks hp amount then the class fixing job is done.
Now if the wards gets blasted after 2 sec.(for example a 2.1 mil. group ward) this means no other healer is, or will be, capable to solo heal any of the new content either and Xel failed on balancing the mobs outgoing damage.
Either way the healers status quo has been reasteblished again.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:16 AM   #43
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I think you missed my point, I was stating fact not complaining. Our wards have nothing to do with how many HP tanks have since good tanks will need to and do block/stoneskin nearly everything anyway what's important is the size of wards compared to the incoming damage to the group, if it's more than the wards are (which it sometimes is) then yes wards will not stop 1 shots, and other classes DO have tools to stop this with things like group deathsaves and tshell etc. The vast increase in the size of wards is only due to 5 extra levels and the extra stats that come with. The incoming damage is scaled the same and the CB lift really is not so significant to the size of wards overall, plus all healer classes with wards benefit from this only shamans have more wards so we needed it more to have even some semblance to parity since this is supposed to be our primary healing mechanic.

If you look at the tools the other classes yet with AoM you'll see that healer balance has not been re-established, they're still imbalanced but I don't really care I am happy for two reasons: 1. my gear means the same to me when I upgade it as it does to another healer and 2. we got a filler to the group heal group ward spike spam cycle that we get caught in while trying to maintain debuffs and cast temps in a timely fashion, soul shackle has done this.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:14 PM   #44
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I don't want to get too optimistic, but i feel that the new crit mechanic may also be more beneficial to shamans than to other classes, helping restoring some of the balance. Since wards are pretty much used up 100% of the time these days, that means that our fabled/leg/mythicrits are almost never going to be wasted. This isn't true for direct healing types although on top end content with pulsing damage it'll probably be close.

Still it's something.
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Old 10-23-2014, 12:20 PM   #45
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Shamans might need to be nerfed now, lol. I'm a ******* god. Just cleared through all 8 heroic zones for mount + rhag zadune in an hour or an hour and a half. I ran around and pulled trash and tanked waves of trash without my hp moving just because I could. Will have to do them again without the zone buff.
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Old 10-23-2014, 02:07 PM   #46
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I haven't tested heroic content yet just raid and solo, will run some heroics on the weekend, gd work getting in the way of my dragon slaying time >.<

What I have seen comparatively in raids tho shamans are far from requiring nerfing, druids are still OP as **** and templars are lulz.
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:52 AM   #47
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I was seeing decent heals but with the buff packages that they were giving us with the pot/cb and resists, what end of the spectrum is that?
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:33 AM   #48
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I'd say the package was top end judging by the heal values compared to that you get solo with the L100 beta buff but idk.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:59 AM   #49
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plus the raw stats which were clearly like holy mother of god
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Old 10-24-2014, 02:52 PM   #50
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IIRC my potency when doing a heroic zone (Yellow something) was the same as the buff i had while doing the endboss of the expac in testing. (The resists were much lower for the heroic, but cb/pot buff looked same).

I can't imagine that the additional 800ish potency (pre-temps) over my current is going be something we have from early gear, especially given that it looks like Mystical will still be "current" versus early heroic. (which we've not seen, but making educated guess based on seeing quest and crafted stuff).
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:19 PM   #51
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whaaaaaAAAAAAAAAT?

This spell was already good, if not overpowered. Now...this?
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Old 10-25-2014, 03:12 AM   #52
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shut up, it's xmas, eat the flappin turkey and shut up. and send a few more cookies to SOE. Smile

but yeah, it looks like all the endlines were buffed, not just ours.
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Old 10-25-2014, 05:18 AM   #53
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I think Buffratt is getting confused between the druid one being boosted to OP and the cleric one was rediculous OP and they adjusted it back accordingly, but that's OK druids needed more help they weren't already stupid op Roll Eyes .
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:50 AM   #54
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Sorry. Maybe a 600-700k per person ward every 6 seconds isn't ridiculously OP.
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Old 10-25-2014, 07:02 AM   #55
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Shamens are like God's now. Bye bye Druids
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Old 10-25-2014, 07:17 AM   #56
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It's not 600-700k lmao

(1414211956)[Sat Oct 25 15:09:16 2014] YOUR Soul Shackle has applied to YOU as a critical ward for 344,450.
(1414211963)[Sat Oct 25 15:09:23 2014] YOUR Soul Shackle regenerates 140918 points of absorption.

Don't exagerate Buffrat, the regen component every 6 seconds is 50% of the initial ward and the initial ward is clearly nothing even close to 600k.

Go back to your "poor druids neeed to do T1 dps and still be OP solo healers cry we want more dps buttons" thread and leave us shamans in peace.

oh and

Divine Waters was healing for 500k per second...like that wasn't rediculous.
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Old 10-25-2014, 07:56 AM   #57
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Soul Shackles was doing ~>1m HPS.
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Old 10-25-2014, 06:45 PM   #58
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Decided to copy my mystic across.

Regarding Soul Shackle, I am seeing the initial ward value falling in lower than my primary single target ward, with the regenerating value at less than half that (probably due to mod on the initial).

Granted, I haven't played my mystic much this last expansion, so his gear is pretty blah (just under 500 pot/cb and lowish mod), but I am only seeing an initial of 130k and regenerating component of 55k (regular crits) on Soul Shackle (training dummy scenario without the beta zone buffs).

The beta testing zone buffs make everything look kind of "ridiculous", and that isn't necessarily helped by the full sets of practiced items you copied across for every person.


Anywho, mystics (/shamans) have needed something to better deal with the sustained (AE) damage mechanic that is so prevalent on existing live content (and probably to be continued in the new expansion), and I imagine that is the purpose of this new ability. Perhaps not the solution I would have opted for, but it seems as if it will also achieve that (assuming live SS ward values are somewhat balanced around live sustained-det damage / HP pool values).
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Old 10-25-2014, 08:01 PM   #59
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Solo, in guild hall I had mine landing consistently for 600k this morning. Maybe I was getting lucky with crits, I dunno. But with raid buffs and new gear that 600k could easily double, making the regen part....half.

Granted, we have no idea what new gear looks like, and it probably won't be as ridiculous as the zone buffs make it look, but in heroic zones I was getting 1-1.2m crits consistently before the buff to it.
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Old 10-26-2014, 12:15 AM   #60
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Practiced items are irrelevant on heroic fights. We both know this. You'd also be dumb not to cast SS immediately on pull, so even if they did matter in heroic zones, they wouldn't be affecting it. My mystic is also an alt, and in mostly/all pug groups. Why even mention it like it matters?

Regen wards are stronger than regen heals for obvious reasons. When you give a regen ward near the same value as druid hots...lol.
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