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Old 10-07-2014, 09:16 PM   #1
Errrorr

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A thread for Issues carried over from ToV that need addressing:

Beastlords -
When can we expect to see the 'Changes' to them? None of their new prestige looks at all useful in making them desired again. If anything, their prestige looked one of the weakest of them all.

Swashies -
Are swashies Actually going to be useful this expac? Or is it going to be a case of "Debuffs matter, take a swashie or fail!" like ToV was meant to be? Currently there is no real use for a Swashy in raids at all over a Brigand.

Rangers -
Magic damage Ammo - If magic damage is going to remain relevant in the expansion, which I assume it will do with all the work put into the weapons pre-expac, will we see any way around this in the near future.

Hitrates -
Hit rates last expac in some zones were atrocious, and has been a similar trend over the past few expacs. Brawler mobs are not fun in any way, and should just not exist, unless you are going to give Swashies an ability to take away 180 degrees of their avoidance...

Auto Attack Damage -
Are we going to see the continuing trend of just stacking auto attack damage for your most dps? It feels like its taken away a lot of the skill requirements to play a scout, in the fact that you can achieve probably 95% of a classes potential just by stacking auto attack.

Stealth Abilities vs Server Lag -
^ Speaks for itself really.

More to come, when I think about stuff more.
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Old 10-07-2014, 11:11 PM   #2
Katanallama

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Yea I'll add to this lol. Inc annoying swash post! I'll try to keep it short.

Swashbucklers
This past expansion there wasn't much of anything done balance wise other than the proclamation of "you'll really want swash debuffs in raid!" Unfortunately that wasn't really the case, a lot of the top guilds got by just fine without one in every raid zone. Basically I'm fearing more of the same for this expansion.

Swash Ability Issues:
Perfect Finesse / Ruthless Cunning: These were a huge DPS boost for many years of EverQuest II, unfortunately with the stat changes in the last year or two these are now arbitrary, offering no measurable benefit outside of the debuff AA. I don't think an ability should be labeled as being okay if it's a dps temp ability that through AAs also has a debuff component which luckily remained useful post stat-changes.

Sleight of Hand: We complained when this came out, not much different now... Basically this ability is horribly too situational to even use. To use it as anything beyond another detaunt (of which single target hate isn't a class issue at all / we have 2 positional detaunts and an xfer worth upwards of 37%) requires far too much vent clutter and coordination on what allies are targeting / calling out threat %s, seeing what snaps are up / is coercer sever hate up, etc... Add in that most named mobs one shot non-fighters, to use it in any meaningful way is nearly impossible.

Swarthy Ways: YEaaaa.....
  • the damage over time (Swarthy Chaos) does almost no dps. On a 6350k parse (3:22 duration) with some adds to AE, Swarthy Chaos did 3.5k dps. Meanwhile the Interrupt ability on my offensive stance did 38.6k dps with the extra few mobs. It at least out parsed Boot Dagger, so I guess there's that.
  • the hate transfer component is nice, but it's not much good on single target fights as we have a lower dps potential - not as much hate gen.
  • 10% potency across the board. We're an AE class yet the benefit is to all CAs? Outside of AEs, there's maybe 2 CA's worth a poop for dps. Basically this buff doesn't line up with the swashbuckler at all, it should have been a 30% AE boost if a potency buff at all.
  • the 10% spell damage debuff is curious, but I don't recall anyone ever explaining if it was a direct 10% reduction or just 10% potency to spell based attacks. Depending on how it's interpreted and the stats of raid bosses this ability is hard to gauge, I really just want more information on how it works ^^, if it's -10 potency then bleh junk, -10 direct to spells then yay.
  • Also stinks considering this ability really doesn't add any dps at all to the Swash, while others saw base auto attack gains, flurry, or at least 30% bonuses to specific types of abilities that are valuable to the class.
General Balance Issues:
Part of it too is that the class' balance is a bit outdated.
Every dps scout has 100% AE Auto now in the raid scene, so now those classes balanced on single target dps have amazing AE potential as well. Even rogue AEing, brig and swash both rocking 100% AE Auto, a brigand just has to double up their AoEs to compete. Swashbuckler AE dps depends on lucky gambit resetting every time another AE is pressed.
As for the encounters themselves, end-game raiding has almost no fights designed for swash dps. They're all one or two nameds, occasional add or set of adds every minute - minute and a half. Basically there's not much to AE on, and adds generally die in time for everyone else to use their long recast AEs, the swashbucklers usually have a lower dps potential as guilds progress deeper into the raid scene. We'll see in this expansion but I am not expecting much of anything top tier that is Swash friendly.
Class-wise, there's no unique swash-only skill that raids are dying to have. The things that people want swashies for a Brigand also has because they're shared AAs or Brigands have a better version of. Their AE avoid is way better, an extra HP debuff we can't get, and the physical damage prestige ability is better for multiple targets.
TL;DR: class balance is out of date and endgame raiding this last expansion there were hardly any solid fights in the endgame raid zones for swashies to even let go on.
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Old 10-08-2014, 02:52 AM   #3
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I still think Max HP Debuffs should be removed. It's a lazy balancing mechanic that makes swashbucklers and beastlords obsolete no matter what else you do short of making them blatantly overpowered and forces you to bring ***/brig/ranger. It also makes balancing hp values on raid mobs harder.

Weapon Damage Bonus is also getting absurdly stronger and stronger, and from what I've seen of beta so far it seems like it's here to stay. I'd much rather have my auto attack be 5-10% of my parse and have our abilities rebalanced, but instead I regularly go afk during raid fights now and when I come back/tab back in 5 minutes later I'm still 3rd/4th on the parse. Every fight in maw I can afk 95% of and just tab in when I hear an act trigger go off or when I need to recast my 2.5 minute temps/makeshift arrows and still be about 80-85% as effective as I would be playing my toon. It's a really unfun way to play the game, but it's also sadly the highest dps, when I can actually be bothered to sit and press random buttons for that extra 15% rather than tab out and browse cat pictures on Imgur. Now this expansion you're forcing me to press a button every 7 seconds so my auto attack can continue probably being now 70-75% of my parse or else I lose like 70 wdb and 120 crit bonus.
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Old 10-09-2014, 01:19 AM   #4
Neiloch

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I'm also going to pile on I think auto attack should be a minor portion of DPS, at least for predators/beastlord.

What I found quite a while ago is while I can get more out of potency gear, its takes MUCH more effort for a minimal gain compared to going with WDB gear. I'm not necessarily against the idea that WDB gear is 'easy' DPS while potency is 'best' DPS but the gap needs to be widened by a lot, by which I mean millions of DPS difference rather than thousands.

I can imagine several different ways this can be done, but in the end I simply want my class abilities to be a much higher portion of my DPS compared to auto attack and want it to be the best way to get maximum DPS no matter the gear or scenario.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:03 AM   #5
Salbain

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Its sad that they don't spend much time on getting class balance right. Even at SOE Live the started all the panel discussions that I watched with a disclaimer that they wouldn't take class balance questions. To me this is where they need to spend a considerable amount of time.

There are countless useless AA's, spells and CA's yet year after year they never take the time to get it right.

I know at least 1 dev that raids but do any of the others actually play this game outside of casually logging in? My guess is no since there are so many blatant issues that people bring up over and over that never get addressed.
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:31 PM   #6
Kurei Hitaka

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I totally agree with all of this. This is just weird in general, lately. We were THE go-to Scout AoE DPS up till the past couple expacs, kinda wondering how and why that was changed. I betrayed to Brigand for awhile to see if maybe I was just tired of the playstyle and wanted to "see the other side", but nope, it is legitimately a nullification of a class' entire purpose. I am a Swashbuckler then, now, always...and I approve this message.

Even worse, our new Prestige 'Storm of Daggers' endline is shared with Brigand, who already stole a small portion of our overarching job last expac. Why did we not get something similar to how Paladin shares their "class" endline with Guardians, and share this skill with Rangers instead, under a different name, while Assassin and Brigand shared some heavy-damage behind-only ability?

I had hope that maybe our AE and strong multi-target support role would be our own again this expac, but it looks like the Homogenization doomsayers may actually be right unless there's some big changes we don't know about that aren't on Beta.

Plus we have the issue of Beastlords, our brethren in failing at everything except looking AWESOME in a fight. The current changes seem to make light of the Beastlord's entire set of issues, focusing on the ONE that people brought up the most rather than the 'Definitely Needs Solving List' in its entirety; I see nothing addressing Savagery/Spiritual stacks/stances, nor the issues some have reported with the Primals and overall DPS. Just spot fixes to pet survivability, and they still seemed to have ignored that as defensive stats do not seem to transfer.
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Old 10-09-2014, 08:03 PM   #7
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First point for beastlord. Why just can't share all magical resists between character and pet?
No way I believe it's too hard to apply or it's brake some sort of balance. My pet have approximately the same hp that I have. Thus, where I shall not survive, the pet will not survive too, it's fair enough, but on encounters where I have no problem to live on and just dps why should I be worried about pet and spam pet-alive button instead damage just because he always take x3+ damage what i take?
And what do you think i should do at this 12 seconds between immun's fall and ability's up? When dot/curse is ticking every few seconds and each tick may kill the pet. Pray?

And beastlord class point. It's just 3% potency and cb from total. And pet death save. My BL now have 573 cb and 543 pot, but I believe to reach 700+ in new expack. So it's about 20+ from 700+. Tbh it's very poor. You know my VD neck is granted to me 30/30 when 2 ppl is near me. I should have 1k&1k to equal the buff from last addon's non superior item.
And you know this 1 minute recast timer... As I understand this ability will trigger when pet died (and this will happen very often, cause it still don't receive shared resists nor hp increase) and go cool down similarly with the KoS one pet death save. Right? So the miserable 20+ potency and 20+ cb buff will fall into oblivion with this timer.
I'd prefer a shadow please.
For this moment BL's AAs looks very weak.
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Old 10-09-2014, 08:39 PM   #8
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And in that case i'd prefer to not cast that buff at all cause it's way better to spend 2 seconds for resummon the pet and still have full savagery bar than take a ban for half bar and spend 4-6 seconds depending of the fast savagery buffs to fill it up and still loose the pet very quick after the next dot tick. Ridiculous
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Old 10-12-2014, 01:49 AM   #9
Ibukia

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With regard to swashy, we really need something here man. I haven't raided since 4sw drinal cause I've had to be travelling for work. Most of the time I've had more hits than anyone in the raid since everything casts really fast. I've only done heroics this summer but it was the same case there as well. So I've always benefitted alot from things like stampede, VC, and inspired daring. (was always in def/tem mt grp though/sad). I suggest a really nice boost to inspired daring. Make it hit harder and last longer. Also how about more thriving essence type cas where we debuff the mob and steal those stats for the group(fits well with rp too!). Perma engarde maybe. Put the dmg reduction right side prestige on the left instead of one of the bad ones.

I understand that dps and ma got swapped across the board a while back but you should probably change ruthless cunning and perfect finesse back to dps or something else than worthless ma. I don't even bother casting them anymore unless its before a pull and clickies aren't up.

just spitballing here btw.

maybe a groupwide or raidwide +proc chance temp buff. I'd love that for things like sunder.

I know I have more ideas in the back of my head somewhere but its a deep dark place and I can't find them all right now.

also any raid guilds out there want a swashy? Will xfer!
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