Wrong use of housing leaderboards?

Necress · 07-03-2012, 05:01 AM

I went to a certain server thinking I would love to have my house ( I had worked so hard on) up on the housing

leaderboards. I did just that and went even further and made a smaller home to add to it. I am very proud of my work as I am sure most of us are when working countless hours putting them together with creativity and blood, sweat and yes even frustration.

Once done, I started to view different homes on the boards, to my dismay, I found several empty homes, with gold and silver awards.

How is this possible? Perhaps done in jest once is funny but to continue and to do it over and over with small, medium and large, massive homes. Is this the way our work is rewarded? To be out voted by an empty house and that person's numerous accts or their friends voting for an empty house ?

In several I even saw gold awards, doesn't that mean the Devs awarded it those gold awards?

I could be wrong about that I am not sure. I will be pulling my houses down if this is the way it is going to work. Sell everything and never spend my money , coin or time ever again on decorating. I am so not happy with this situation.

Galldora · 07-03-2012, 07:29 AM

Well, there are always going to be players who do the kind of thing you're describing. Who knows, maybe they were adventurers going after the "achievement," although why a non-decorator would be interested in this achievement is beyond me. Maybe those folks are completionists who don't feel right until they can tick off all those achievement boxes.

For me, the leaderboards work best if I simply ignore the ratings -- I'm not listing my houses for rewards or ratings anyway, just to share them with others if they are interested. The whole notion of people rating the homes has had problems from the start. Remember when we were able to cast a negative vote, and people got their feelings hurt when others voted their house down just so the house that person had listed would rate higher in comparison?

I think the very best part of the leaderboards is that the system allows for easy access to the homes, even by low level characters visiting from other servers, and in my book that's the best part and the right use of the leaderboards. They could drop the whole "I like it" system and I wouldn't care one way or the other. How many ratings do my listed homes have? I couldn't begin to tell you.

As for selling everything in your homes and never spending a cent again on decorating, don't let this ratings stuff get to you to that extent. If you have fun decorating your homes then do so, list them or not as you prefer, and if someone else has awards for an empty house, oh well. It doesn't prevent people from coming by and giving your home a thumbs-up if they so desire, and when you see those ratings you'll know they are from other players who visited and genuinely liked your home.

Katz · 07-03-2012, 11:50 AM

While I understand your frustration, you are focusing on the undecorated houses instead of the incredible decorated ones.

I agree that it should be thought of as a touring feature and less as a competition. It doesn't have ways to search for houses, to categorize them by type or use, or anything like that. It however, does serve as an excellent touring feature. I have server touring toons made especially to vist homes posted in these forums. The leaderboards make it easy for me to have a level 1 toon hop over to the incredible houses.

BarakanDJ · 07-03-2012, 01:31 PM

I know this is also a pet peeve with my Wife.She constantly shows her disappointment when her hard work does not get valued but a house with a moving crate placed centrally in the enterance and travel amneties you stumble over when entering the house makes it to the leaderboard just because that person has alot of accounts or kewl friends who vote them in.

Me personally, would never be able to get a house up on the leaderboards, I dont have the patience of most of the decorators out there.. I am more of a "I put picture on wall.. picture purdy!!" decorator.

I have most houses to save bank space and to have somewhere to store my apprentice Although, some houses are lent to my wife for decorating.

So what to do with the twerps that get their houses on the leaderboards without them deserving it?Nothing can be done I am afraid. Just ignore them, the true decorators out there knows when they visit a house if the person is a serious decorator or not and know to appreciate the nuances and innovations of the decorator.

PS/ I dont like the idea that once a house is given an award for the leaderboard and then you take it down to make a tiny change and re-post it... you get another trophy when you get back to the leaderboards... that is wrong! /DS

With care and considerationBara... Antonia Bayle

romancediva · 07-03-2012, 02:18 PM

BarakanDJ wrote:

PS/ I dont like the idea that once a house is given an award for the leaderboard and then you take it down to make a tiny change and re-post it... you get another trophy when you get back to the leaderboards... that is wrong! /DS

Oh, that irritates me! I've gotten four trophies for one of my houses, but to place the trophy I have to un-list the house, thus losing my current rating, place the trophy and then start all over. Very, very frustrating!! There should be a way you can make a change to a currently listed house, especially once it's in the hall of fame, that you can place a trophy or make a change without losing your current rating.

My only other pet peeve - people with listed house and UNPAID RENT! Drives me mad to try to look at a house only to be told that *I* need to pay the rent before I can look at it. First of all, *I* should not have to pay the rent - the *owner* should have to pay the rent. Second, if you can't go in and look at it, it really shouldn't be listed. It's taking up space that available homes could occupy.

That's my rant for the day. SMILEY

Necress · 07-03-2012, 03:10 PM

Thanks all for the input, I can see I am not the only one this bothers.

I really do not put my house on display only for ratings, although that is a perk, I mean most of us would love to get a house trophy.

That being said, I think the Devs need to weed out those that present an empty house, or one crate house. I know they review these and they know this is not the way this is supposed to work. I am not sure why its allowed.

Not only does this stop fair competition, it makes a mockery of our hard work. I hope at least one Dev sees this and responds to it, either here or do something ingame.

Atmu · 07-03-2012, 03:57 PM

Hi there,

just to clarify what Bara meant and what Mallyce irritated:

Quote Mallyce:

Oh, that irritates me! I've gotten four trophies for one of my houses, but to place the trophy I have to un-list the house, thus losing my current rating, place the trophy and then start all over. Very, very frustrating!! There should be a way you can make a change to a currently listed house, especially once it's in the hall of fame, that you can place a trophy or make a change without losing your current rating.

We had to take down one house as we wanted to take out something I needed for another house. Said first house was in the hall of fame. The rule is if you take it down and reposte it, it looses the place in the Hall of Fame and you have to get again one award silver or gold, which is not so hard. We were just astonished we got again the trophy.

Greetings Mu!

Katz · 07-03-2012, 04:28 PM

Well, I don't think we want them paying someone to police the houses posted on every server. That would cost time and money better spent elsewhere.

It would be better to handle it some other way. Something automated.

I think the best route to take is when you decorate a house you are proud of, post about it here. Then those of us that have touring toons can visit and vote. I can't tell you how many times I've seen something posted here, visited the house, and thought, wow that is wonderful! And then I will like the house. That is more efficient that waiting from someone to randomly find you on leaderboards.

Medeya_AB · 07-04-2012, 02:44 AM

I have discovered many empty houses like those that you described. Its rather sad, but some people do that. I say decorate because you enjoy decorating and if you have something really cool, then share your pictures with us here. While I do enjoy seeing a house in the hall of fame, I can still enjoy decorating without it.

Pumancat · 07-05-2012, 09:53 AM

OK, stupid question - What are these Leader Boards, and how do I get to them? I've posted my house on this forum via Photobucket, but only had 2 people reply.

Synestra - AB server

Gealaen_Gaiamancer · 07-05-2012, 09:59 AM

Pumancat wrote:

OK, stupid question - What are these Leader Boards, and how do I get to them? I've posted my house on this forum via Photobucket, but only had 2 people reply.
Synestra - AB server

While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc. To get to the leaderboard, click the EQ2 button from the main bar (default UI; or its corresponding button/location in your custom UI) and look for the "Housing Leaderboards" option. The leaderboards are broken up by house size, and you can filter (at the bottom of window) to show just your houses.

General_Info · 07-05-2012, 11:46 AM

Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote:

While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc.

i'm curious if the house has a harvest depot will the owner be able to put harvests in and take them out?

Gealaen_Gaiamancer · 07-05-2012, 12:32 PM

General_Info wrote:

Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote:
While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc.
i'm curious if the house has a harvest depot will the owner be able to put harvests in and take them out?

Good question--but I don't have a certain answer to that one (no harvest depot in any of my houses just yet). I have verified that you can list a house on the leaderboards and then visit it--from any non-instanced zone--to visit TS apprentices and craft. With that in mind, I imagine that dropping stuff off in the depot would work. And when you're done ... you leave the house and go right back where you were in the world.

Kaito · 07-05-2012, 01:29 PM

Silver Awards are earned at least 2 Good Ratings by Players (Silver/Gold Sub)....

Gold Awards are earned by ??? (Didn't figure out yet...)

Houses into Hall of Fame are decided by Game Moderator to be placed into it if they find it decorative enough...

Ratings by the "Player" will be lost if "Player" logged off for 24hours...

I don't find misuse of it unless the Hall of Fame is controlled by Players' votes...

Afista · 07-05-2012, 02:27 PM

Kaito wrote:

Silver Awards are earned at least 2 Good Ratings by Players (Silver/Gold Sub)....
Gold Awards are earned by ??? (Didn't figure out yet...)
Houses into Hall of Fame are decided by Game Moderator to be placed into it if they find it decorative enough...
Ratings by the "Player" will be lost if "Player" logged off for 24hours...

No, not at all like that. This is How the ratings work

... or are you suggesting this is how it should be set up?

Katz · 07-05-2012, 03:43 PM

General_Info wrote:

Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote:
While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc.
i'm curious if the house has a harvest depot will the owner be able to put harvests in and take them out?

You can use your harvesting depot just fine. You cannot however put things into and out of a moving crate or into and out of the house as long as it is published.

Pumancat · 07-05-2012, 03:53 PM

Thank you. Synestra's home now published.

Atmu · 07-07-2012, 06:55 AM

Katz wrote:

General_Info wrote:
Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote:
While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc.
i'm curious if the house has a harvest depot will the owner be able to put harvests in and take them out?
You can use your harvesting depot just fine. You cannot however put things into and out of a moving crate or into and out of the house as long as it is published.

You can also take out stuff from the moving crate, it goes in your bag. You just cannot place it.

Greetings Mu!

Katz · 07-07-2012, 10:03 AM

Oh good to find out about the moving crate. I'll try that next time.

Ellarae · 07-23-2012, 09:01 PM

Just my 2 cents on the undecorated/unpaid houses issue... what about if house items that already have status reduction also get coin reduction. A very small amount - 1% or less - so you would need at least 100 items to make a house rent free. And then make rent more expensive so it actually becomes a money sink if you don't have rent reduction. That would at least discourage empty houses. And the houses that are decorated will probably never have the unpaid rent issue.

Katz · 07-23-2012, 09:08 PM

Ellarae wrote:

Just my 2 cents on the undecorated/unpaid houses issue... what about if house items that already have status reduction also get coin reduction. A very small amount - 1% or less - so you would need at least 100 items to make a house rent free. And then make rent more expensive so it actually becomes a money sink. That would at least discourage empty houses. And the houses that are decorated will probably never have the unpaid rent issue.

Oh, I like this idea! If you could do that, make it so that we could eliminate rent with house items, that would be lovely!

However, this would not eliminate the empty prestige houses on leaderboards.

Ellarae · 07-23-2012, 09:19 PM

Katz wrote:

Oh, I like this idea! If you could do that, make it so that we could eliminate rent with house items, that would be lovely!
However, this would not eliminate the empty prestige houses on leaderboards.

Yeah, it's not a perfect solution, but it should be a bit of an improvement.

If anyone from SOE is reading this, could we get an official opinion?

07-03-2012, 07:29 AM	#2
Galldora Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,145	Well, there are always going to be players who do the kind of thing you're describing. Who knows, maybe they were adventurers going after the "achievement," although why a non-decorator would be interested in this achievement is beyond me. Maybe those folks are completionists who don't feel right until they can tick off all those achievement boxes. For me, the leaderboards work best if I simply ignore the ratings -- I'm not listing my houses for rewards or ratings anyway, just to share them with others if they are interested. The whole notion of people rating the homes has had problems from the start. Remember when we were able to cast a negative vote, and people got their feelings hurt when others voted their house down just so the house that person had listed would rate higher in comparison? I think the very best part of the leaderboards is that the system allows for easy access to the homes, even by low level characters visiting from other servers, and in my book that's the best part and the right use of the leaderboards. They could drop the whole "I like it" system and I wouldn't care one way or the other. How many ratings do my listed homes have? I couldn't begin to tell you. As for selling everything in your homes and never spending a cent again on decorating, don't let this ratings stuff get to you to that extent. If you have fun decorating your homes then do so, list them or not as you prefer, and if someone else has awards for an empty house, oh well. It doesn't prevent people from coming by and giving your home a thumbs-up if they so desire, and when you see those ratings you'll know they are from other players who visited and genuinely liked your home. __________________

07-03-2012, 02:18 PM	#5
romancediva Loremaster Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USA Posts: 30	BarakanDJ wrote: PS/ I dont like the idea that once a house is given an award for the leaderboard and then you take it down to make a tiny change and re-post it... you get another trophy when you get back to the leaderboards... that is wrong! /DS Oh, that irritates me! I've gotten four trophies for one of my houses, but to place the trophy I have to un-list the house, thus losing my current rating, place the trophy and then start all over. Very, very frustrating!! There should be a way you can make a change to a currently listed house, especially once it's in the hall of fame, that you can place a trophy or make a change without losing your current rating. My only other pet peeve - people with listed house and UNPAID RENT! Drives me mad to try to look at a house only to be told that I need to pay the rent before I can look at it. First of all, I should not have to pay the rent - the owner should have to pay the rent. Second, if you can't go in and look at it, it really shouldn't be listed. It's taking up space that available homes could occupy. That's my rant for the day. __________________

07-04-2012, 02:44 AM	#9
Medeya_AB Lord Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 30	I have discovered many empty houses like those that you described. Its rather sad, but some people do that. I say decorate because you enjoy decorating and if you have something really cool, then share your pictures with us here. While I do enjoy seeing a house in the hall of fame, I can still enjoy decorating without it. __________________

07-05-2012, 09:59 AM	#11
Gealaen_Gaiamancer Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Unrest Posts: 157	Pumancat wrote: OK, stupid question - What are these Leader Boards, and how do I get to them? I've posted my house on this forum via Photobucket, but only had 2 people reply. Synestra - AB server While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc. To get to the leaderboard, click the EQ2 button from the main bar (default UI; or its corresponding button/location in your custom UI) and look for the "Housing Leaderboards" option. The leaderboards are broken up by house size, and you can filter (at the bottom of window) to show just your houses. __________________ Fight with honor and triumph!

07-05-2012, 11:46 AM	#12
General_Info Lord Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 658	Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote: While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc. i'm curious if the house has a harvest depot will the owner be able to put harvests in and take them out? __________________

07-03-2012, 05:01 AM	#1
Necress Server: Befallen Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 13	I went to a certain server thinking I would love to have my house ( I had worked so hard on) up on the housing leaderboards. I did just that and went even further and made a smaller home to add to it. I am very proud of my work as I am sure most of us are when working countless hours putting them together with creativity and blood, sweat and yes even frustration. Once done, I started to view different homes on the boards, to my dismay, I found several empty homes, with gold and silver awards. How is this possible? Perhaps done in jest once is funny but to continue and to do it over and over with small, medium and large, massive homes. Is this the way our work is rewarded? To be out voted by an empty house and that person's numerous accts or their friends voting for an empty house ? In several I even saw gold awards, doesn't that mean the Devs awarded it those gold awards? I could be wrong about that I am not sure. I will be pulling my houses down if this is the way it is going to work. Sell everything and never spend my money , coin or time ever again on decorating. I am so not happy with this situation.

07-03-2012, 11:50 AM	#3
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	While I understand your frustration, you are focusing on the undecorated houses instead of the incredible decorated ones. I agree that it should be thought of as a touring feature and less as a competition. It doesn't have ways to search for houses, to categorize them by type or use, or anything like that. It however, does serve as an excellent touring feature. I have server touring toons made especially to vist homes posted in these forums. The leaderboards make it easy for me to have a level 1 toon hop over to the incredible houses.

07-03-2012, 01:31 PM	#4
BarakanDJ Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3	I know this is also a pet peeve with my Wife.She constantly shows her disappointment when her hard work does not get valued but a house with a moving crate placed centrally in the enterance and travel amneties you stumble over when entering the house makes it to the leaderboard just because that person has alot of accounts or kewl friends who vote them in. Me personally, would never be able to get a house up on the leaderboards, I dont have the patience of most of the decorators out there.. I am more of a "I put picture on wall.. picture purdy!!" decorator. I have most houses to save bank space and to have somewhere to store my apprentice Although, some houses are lent to my wife for decorating. So what to do with the twerps that get their houses on the leaderboards without them deserving it?Nothing can be done I am afraid. Just ignore them, the true decorators out there knows when they visit a house if the person is a serious decorator or not and know to appreciate the nuances and innovations of the decorator. PS/ I dont like the idea that once a house is given an award for the leaderboard and then you take it down to make a tiny change and re-post it... you get another trophy when you get back to the leaderboards... that is wrong! /DS With care and considerationBara... Antonia Bayle

07-03-2012, 03:10 PM	#6
Necress Server: Befallen Loremaster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 13	Thanks all for the input, I can see I am not the only one this bothers. I really do not put my house on display only for ratings, although that is a perk, I mean most of us would love to get a house trophy. That being said, I think the Devs need to weed out those that present an empty house, or one crate house. I know they review these and they know this is not the way this is supposed to work. I am not sure why its allowed. Not only does this stop fair competition, it makes a mockery of our hard work. I hope at least one Dev sees this and responds to it, either here or do something ingame.

07-03-2012, 03:57 PM	#7
Atmu Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 253	Hi there, just to clarify what Bara meant and what Mallyce irritated: Quote Mallyce: Oh, that irritates me! I've gotten four trophies for one of my houses, but to place the trophy I have to un-list the house, thus losing my current rating, place the trophy and then start all over. Very, very frustrating!! There should be a way you can make a change to a currently listed house, especially once it's in the hall of fame, that you can place a trophy or make a change without losing your current rating. We had to take down one house as we wanted to take out something I needed for another house. Said first house was in the hall of fame. The rule is if you take it down and reposte it, it looses the place in the Hall of Fame and you have to get again one award silver or gold, which is not so hard. We were just astonished we got again the trophy. Greetings Mu!

07-03-2012, 04:28 PM	#8
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	Well, I don't think we want them paying someone to police the houses posted on every server. That would cost time and money better spent elsewhere. It would be better to handle it some other way. Something automated. I think the best route to take is when you decorate a house you are proud of, post about it here. Then those of us that have touring toons can visit and vote. I can't tell you how many times I've seen something posted here, visited the house, and thought, wow that is wonderful! And then I will like the house. That is more efficient that waiting from someone to randomly find you on leaderboards.

07-05-2012, 09:53 AM	#10
Pumancat Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 223	OK, stupid question - What are these Leader Boards, and how do I get to them? I've posted my house on this forum via Photobucket, but only had 2 people reply. Synestra - AB server

07-05-2012, 12:32 PM	#13
Gealaen_Gaiamancer Loremaster Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Unrest Posts: 157	General_Info wrote: Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote: While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc. i'm curious if the house has a harvest depot will the owner be able to put harvests in and take them out? Good question--but I don't have a certain answer to that one (no harvest depot in any of my houses just yet). I have verified that you can list a house on the leaderboards and then visit it--from any non-instanced zone--to visit TS apprentices and craft. With that in mind, I imagine that dropping stuff off in the depot would work. And when you're done ... you leave the house and go right back where you were in the world. __________________ Fight with honor and triumph!

07-05-2012, 01:29 PM	#14
Kaito Lord Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 52	Silver Awards are earned at least 2 Good Ratings by Players (Silver/Gold Sub).... Gold Awards are earned by ??? (Didn't figure out yet...) Houses into Hall of Fame are decided by Game Moderator to be placed into it if they find it decorative enough... Ratings by the "Player" will be lost if "Player" logged off for 24hours... I don't find misuse of it unless the Hall of Fame is controlled by Players' votes... __________________

07-05-2012, 02:27 PM	#15
Afista Loremaster Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,263	Kaito wrote: Silver Awards are earned at least 2 Good Ratings by Players (Silver/Gold Sub).... Gold Awards are earned by ??? (Didn't figure out yet...) Houses into Hall of Fame are decided by Game Moderator to be placed into it if they find it decorative enough... Ratings by the "Player" will be lost if "Player" logged off for 24hours... No, not at all like that. This is How the ratings work ... or are you suggesting this is how it should be set up? __________________ Click Image for link to decorating consolidated works website Consolidated Works Fourm Thread

07-05-2012, 03:43 PM	#16
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	General_Info wrote: Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote: While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc. i'm curious if the house has a harvest depot will the owner be able to put harvests in and take them out? You can use your harvesting depot just fine. You cannot however put things into and out of a moving crate or into and out of the house as long as it is published.

07-05-2012, 03:53 PM	#17
Pumancat Loremaster Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 223	Thank you. Synestra's home now published.

07-07-2012, 06:55 AM	#18
Atmu Loremaster Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 253	Katz wrote: General_Info wrote: Gealaen_Gaiamancer wrote: While you're in your house, click the button to "Publish" it (from the /house window). Once you do that, then you won't be able to move anything in the house, and folks will be able to visit, rate, etc. i'm curious if the house has a harvest depot will the owner be able to put harvests in and take them out? You can use your harvesting depot just fine. You cannot however put things into and out of a moving crate or into and out of the house as long as it is published. You can also take out stuff from the moving crate, it goes in your bag. You just cannot place it. Greetings Mu!

07-07-2012, 10:03 AM	#19
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	Oh good to find out about the moving crate. I'll try that next time.

07-23-2012, 09:01 PM	#20
Ellarae Master Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 34	Just my 2 cents on the undecorated/unpaid houses issue... what about if house items that already have status reduction also get coin reduction. A very small amount - 1% or less - so you would need at least 100 items to make a house rent free. And then make rent more expensive so it actually becomes a money sink if you don't have rent reduction. That would at least discourage empty houses. And the houses that are decorated will probably never have the unpaid rent issue.

07-23-2012, 09:08 PM	#21
Katz Loremaster Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,601	Ellarae wrote: Just my 2 cents on the undecorated/unpaid houses issue... what about if house items that already have status reduction also get coin reduction. A very small amount - 1% or less - so you would need at least 100 items to make a house rent free. And then make rent more expensive so it actually becomes a money sink. That would at least discourage empty houses. And the houses that are decorated will probably never have the unpaid rent issue. Oh, I like this idea! If you could do that, make it so that we could eliminate rent with house items, that would be lovely! However, this would not eliminate the empty prestige houses on leaderboards.

07-23-2012, 09:19 PM	#22
Ellarae Master Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 34	Katz wrote: Oh, I like this idea! If you could do that, make it so that we could eliminate rent with house items, that would be lovely! However, this would not eliminate the empty prestige houses on leaderboards. Yeah, it's not a perfect solution, but it should be a bit of an improvement. If anyone from SOE is reading this, could we get an official opinion?