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Old 03-01-2011, 01:47 AM   #1
Bawang

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The so called penalties against the flying mount cheaters have no deterrent effect

According to Smokejumper: “So, after thinking about it, we figured a fair penalty would be a short suspension. That way, when they come back to the game, they'll have had time to earn their gryphons. Which seems fitting.

The problem with such a short suspension is that it actually encourages players to continually engage in cheating.  What would happen if the IRS only penalized tax evaders with the same amount they cheated the government out of?  Everyone would be encouraged to cheat of course.  Why you ask? Because the worst that can happen if you’re caught is you would have to cough up the same amount you were going to hand over in the first place.

The message Smokejumper is actually sending the cheaters is this: “You hardcore players are too important for us to do anything that would really drive you away.  We apologize that we have to apply this slap-on-the wrist punishment but we need to give the appearance that we will not tolerate this type of activity.  But do keep on cheating.  The worst that can happen is you’ll be brought back to the same level as non-cheaters, which is where you would have been anyway so you’ve lost nothing.”

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Old 03-01-2011, 01:52 AM   #2
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Its just a flying mount, not nearly as bad as numerous battleground bugs that there used to be. doesnt really hurt anyone in the end

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Old 03-01-2011, 02:01 AM   #3
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Nah, it doesn't encourage cheating.  Remember the BG exploits?   We "Raiders" lost MANY good people as a result of that blorgangaggle. 

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Old 03-01-2011, 02:09 AM   #4
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They should be suspended 5 days and have to dedo the entire quest without cheating.

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Old 03-01-2011, 02:12 AM   #5
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Strip the discos, reset their flying quest completion status, maybe the same durration vacation and I'd call it square. IDGARA about the discos, but apparently those folks do, so taking away the disco and the reward and forcing them to redo the quest they exploited from scratch might teach them (probably not but oh well).

Cheating is cheating, exploiting is exploiting. Exploiting mythical updates got folks a vacation, stripped of their mythical, and their quest progression reset, so I don't see why this should be treated any differently. The moment you let it slide without meaningful punishment, people will be more willing to do it knowing that the punishment is getting more lax as the reward is "less" impactful on the community.

If you exploit, be ready to accept the punishments.

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Old 03-01-2011, 02:15 AM   #6
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Or why not just take their mounts away.

for good lul

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Old 03-01-2011, 02:19 AM   #7
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On this one i disagree.

First i was thinking cool they got banned, i m very happy, and i still think that. I dont like them, they are cheater !

but but...

did they have cheated ?

For me cheat can be 2 way :

first cheat :

one simple leak not big issue but can be done lot of time that end to a bigger issue

Did creat numerous alt and claim xp potion is cheated ? clearly do lot of time the same action for abuse the system could considerate as cheat. But on flying mount there is nothing like that

Second cheat :

complex tricks, like using several spell in special order with key situation for get an unexpected result. And again it's become cheat only if you use more than once...

So i m happy they got banned but i feel that so wrong.It's clearly developper and smokejumper who have not done there job, they didnt take time to do there job correctly. They allow people to share the quest so why ban people who just follow the rule because they didnt take time to define those rule correctly ?

I know we are on the 21 century and the guilty is never responssible, and it's used to blame someone else for his own mistake but ... it's so wrong.

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Old 03-01-2011, 02:44 AM   #8
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They cant really strip all the discos anyways, not every person who discoed the gryphons did so by exploiting and everyone has them now so what is going to happen..first person who logs in and converts/unconverts it to a house item re-discoes them?

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Old 03-01-2011, 03:05 AM   #9
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[email protected] wrote:

Nah, it doesn't encourage cheating.  Remember the BG exploits?   We "Raiders" lost MANY good people as a result of that blorgangaggle. 

And they deserved it.

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Old 03-01-2011, 03:35 AM   #10
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Bawang wrote:

The so called penalties against the flying mount cheaters have no deterrent effect

According to Smokejumper: “So, after thinking about it, we figured a fair penalty would be a short suspension. That way, when they come back to the game, they'll have had time to earn their gryphons. Which seems fitting.

The problem with such a short suspension is that it actually encourages players to continually engage in cheating.  What would happen if the IRS only penalized tax evaders with the same amount they cheated the government out of?  Everyone would be encouraged to cheat of course.  Why you ask? Because the worst that can happen if you’re caught is you would have to cough up the same amount you were going to hand over in the first place.

The message Smokejumper is actually sending the cheaters is this: “You hardcore players are too important for us to do anything that would really drive you away.  We apologize that we have to apply this slap-on-the wrist punishment but we need to give the appearance that we will not tolerate this type of activity.  But do keep on cheating.  The worst that can happen is you’ll be brought back to the same level as non-cheaters, which is where you would have been anyway so you’ve lost nothing.”

oh FFS the people that were exploiting the lord D in The Forgotten Pools had a much larger impact, prevented people from progressing in the Rime zones for a few days as the Ascent required you completing that zone. Smokejumper stated that they didn't know if they were going to penalize them or something to that effect. It sounded like the griffon was somehow worse they way it came out. I'm wondering if those people got to keep all the plat and loot from that...

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Old 03-01-2011, 03:56 AM   #11
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Morghus wrote:

They cant really strip all the discos anyways, not every person who discoed the gryphons did so by exploiting and everyone has them now so what is going to happen..first person who logs in and converts/unconverts it to a house item re-discoes them?

Strip the disco off those that exploited the quest, not off everyone on all servers. IDC if they just remove that particular disco from happening all together as long as it means the person that cheated to get it doesn't get the credit for it.

The reason those individuals exploited it was to get the disco. If you don't strip the disco off of them, they get to keep the "spoils" of their cheating. Pretty much negates the whole reason for punishment really, and it sets a very bad example. Again.

If this type of behavior gets you a minor vacation, they might as well give back all that plat that got duped into existance from RoK gear, might as well give back all the stuff striped from those that exploited the BG bugs to dupe stuff into existance, might as well refund the time mythical exploiters were banned for, etc.

I fully well know and understand that not everyone gets their illegitimately earned rewards taken away and that doesn't mean I'm any bit happy about it because they effectively cheated and got to keep their exploited spoils (an example is as someone pointed out the folks that abused the loot on Lord D-w/e the f his name is. I really hope with every fiber of my being that they get stripped of all the coin/rewards they got from him and are given a vacation for it since it was knowingly and intentionally abusing it blind just as going out of your way to use knowledge from beta to disco multiple griffon mounts before anyone physically should be capable of).

I also am fully aware that resetting those mounts to get discoed again would not really be fair but letting cheaters keep the disco would be even more unfair to those that were trying to get it legitimately because it screams that they are being punished for playing as intended and that if you use beta to find cheats and abuse it that you can cheat and get away with basically no punishment. Beta was not meant to be a way for players to find the newest exploits and abuse them when it goes live, and in actuality that behavior should be punished that much harder since it's the opposite of what beta was intended for.

If someone cheats to get something such as monetary reward or item rewards or in this case a disco, it should be stripped off of that character that was punished for exploiting it. If you don't understand the logic behind that, then I really don't know what to tell you.

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Old 03-01-2011, 04:55 AM   #12
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Disco is fluffy, not related to the game. The only thing that give it's ep2player... I really hope they dont put achievement on disco or i could understand your anger, but without that. It's just nothing.

And it would be lame to put achievement on disco, running like crazy for buy everything new on merchant is a lame attitude. More than cheating really.

In one single day they could have more disco than just mount, and disco just give unfair advantage to player who do beta, so something related to disco it not relevant. Uneless you have NOT done the beta. In other word Beta player should not be able to get any disco, due to the unfair advantage they got, so this feathure should be ... fluffy SMILEY

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Old 03-01-2011, 10:34 AM   #13
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[email protected] wrote:

Bawang wrote:

The so called penalties against the flying mount cheaters have no deterrent effect

According to Smokejumper: “So, after thinking about it, we figured a fair penalty would be a short suspension. That way, when they come back to the game, they'll have had time to earn their gryphons. Which seems fitting.

The problem with such a short suspension is that it actually encourages players to continually engage in cheating.  What would happen if the IRS only penalized tax evaders with the same amount they cheated the government out of?  Everyone would be encouraged to cheat of course.  Why you ask? Because the worst that can happen if you’re caught is you would have to cough up the same amount you were going to hand over in the first place.

The message Smokejumper is actually sending the cheaters is this: “You hardcore players are too important for us to do anything that would really drive you away.  We apologize that we have to apply this slap-on-the wrist punishment but we need to give the appearance that we will not tolerate this type of activity.  But do keep on cheating.  The worst that can happen is you’ll be brought back to the same level as non-cheaters, which is where you would have been anyway so you’ve lost nothing.”

oh FFS the people that were exploiting the lord D in The Forgotten Pools had a much larger impact, prevented people from progressing in the Rime zones for a few days as the Ascent required you completing that zone. Smokejumper stated that they didn't know if they were going to penalize them or something to that effect. It sounded like the griffon was somehow worse they way it came out. I'm wondering if those people got to keep all the plat and loot from that...

And those people should be punished even more severly.

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Old 03-01-2011, 11:09 AM   #14
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The message is the same it always has been, if you can exploit do so nothing will happen.  The BG was the sole exception in EQ2 history.  Same with endlessly lootable chests, they get to keep all that loot and nothing will happen to them.  i don't really care at this point, i need something to do and running around norrath is something.

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Old 03-01-2011, 12:38 PM   #15
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If you find a bug or an exploit all you can do is report it and dont use it / dont do it.  After that, there isnt anything you can do.  If the company decides it needs fixed or that people are exploiting they can handle it however they want.  It's a game, there is nothing in this game that will affect you IRL.  

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Old 03-01-2011, 12:45 PM   #16
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I think an important part of Smokejumper's statement that has been overlooked is the fact that the exploit was discovered in beta, and those who discovered it decided to use it to their own advantage, rather than report it.  If I knew that those people who used the exploit were also banned from any future beta tests, I would be much more comfortable.  A cheater with free reign in a test environment is a really bad thing.

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Old 03-01-2011, 12:54 PM   #17
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They got off easy.

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Old 03-01-2011, 12:56 PM   #18
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schizmark wrote:

I think an important part of Smokejumper's statement that has been overlooked is the fact that the exploit was discovered in beta, and those who discovered it decided to use it to their own advantage, rather than report it.  If I knew that those people who used the exploit were also banned from any future beta tests, I would be much more comfortable.  A cheater with free reign in a test environment is a really bad thing.

False. I believe it was discovered in beta, reported in beta, and went unchanged to live.

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Old 03-01-2011, 01:03 PM   #19
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Morghus wrote:

schizmark wrote:

I think an important part of Smokejumper's statement that has been overlooked is the fact that the exploit was discovered in beta, and those who discovered it decided to use it to their own advantage, rather than report it.  If I knew that those people who used the exploit were also banned from any future beta tests, I would be much more comfortable.  A cheater with free reign in a test environment is a really bad thing.

False. I believe it was discovered in beta, reported in beta, and went unchanged to live.

Either or; the point is that they need to be blackballed from testing for cheating. Dishonest people do not make good test subjects in any experiment not related to dishonesty.

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Old 03-01-2011, 01:05 PM   #20
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schizmark wrote:

Morghus wrote:

schizmark wrote:

I think an important part of Smokejumper's statement that has been overlooked is the fact that the exploit was discovered in beta, and those who discovered it decided to use it to their own advantage, rather than report it.  If I knew that those people who used the exploit were also banned from any future beta tests, I would be much more comfortable.  A cheater with free reign in a test environment is a really bad thing.

False. I believe it was discovered in beta, reported in beta, and went unchanged to live.

Either or; the point is that they need to be blackballed from testing for cheating. Dishonest people do not make good test subjects in any experiment not related to dishonesty.

I don't exactly disagree. However, it really makes someone wonder when you /bug and /feedback something almost every day it is there only for nothing to be done about it.

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Old 03-01-2011, 01:52 PM   #21
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If you cheat deliberately the only punishment that makes any sense at all is to leave you WORSE off than you would have been without cheating - not breaking even.

On the other hand if you do what the game allows without hacking it - how can one be sure that you KNEW you were breaking the rules. Sometimes the developers will put in two ways to do something - an obvious way and a less obvious way for those that are clever - or clued in - and neither is "cheating".

The punishment as I understand it seems far too soft for a deliberate cheat and too hard if someone thought they were just following one of multiple permitted approaches (in this case removing the mount but no suspension would be fair).

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Old 03-01-2011, 02:34 PM   #22
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schizmark wrote:

I think an important part of Smokejumper's statement that has been overlooked is the fact that the exploit was discovered in beta, and those who discovered it decided to use it to their own advantage, rather than report it.  If I knew that those people who used the exploit were also banned from any future beta tests, I would be much more comfortable.  A cheater with free reign in a test environment is a really bad thing.

Actually there was a big thread about the griffon quests on beta, and this very issue was mentioned in it many times, over a good duration of time, and yet nothing was done about it.

And you notice, how they were able to instantly fix it on Live once complaints started appearing?If they could fix it that fast, why in the heck did SoE NOT fix it in beta, when it was actually reported as being an issue for a long time!

SoE completely dropped the ball here, yet again.

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Old 03-01-2011, 03:15 PM   #23
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Cheating only affects SOE and the person cheating.  I could care less if someone cheated to get what they got.  I play to enjoy the game.  The way other people play has no bearing on what I like to do..

I give this a big "meh"...

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Old 03-01-2011, 04:02 PM   #24
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In an MMO cheating affects everyone.  People are constantly interacting and competing for groups and raids, buying and selling on the broker, trying to be the first with some disco, etc.  No room there for cheaters.

So if you want to cheat play a single player game.

I hate cheating and cheaters in multiplayer games.  Banning's too good for them. 

Sheeze, suppose you were playing poker and discovered they were using marked cards.  Would you keep on playing? Would you just insist they replace the deck without knowing how else they were cheating?  Or would you demand compensation and walk away?  I don't know about some but I'd do the latter. Life is too short to waste on such jerks.  Besides which if they were caught cheating in one way they're probably cheating in other ways they weren't caught.  Just get rid of them.

Unfortunately, the goal of many people when getting into a beta is to find the cheats so they can use them once it's live and before they're fixed.  I agree that all cheaters should be banned from all future SoE betas.  Not just for EQ2 but for all games.  

If this cheat allowed them to get a griffon take away that griffon and don't let them get another.

And I agree that if SoE knew about it in beta it's their fault too.  That should in no way reduce the punishment of the cheaters but I wish there was some way to punish the guy who let it slide too.  What was he thinking?  That no player would use such a cheat?  If that's the case he should be fired for terminal stupidity.

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Old 03-01-2011, 06:49 PM   #25
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It really was appropriate for the action. It deprived them of the opportunity to "show off", which is what they were bragging about in the first place. The ones who did it, came to the board to brag and dared SOE to penalize them. In doing so, they stripped them of what matters to them most. Attention. Someone made a suggestion that they get knocked off until they do a spell that neutralizes the knock off, which sounds pretty poetic and hilarious. But it's really moot now since everyone can now fly if they have completed the quest.

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:08 PM   #26
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schizmark wrote:

I think an important part of Smokejumper's statement that has been overlooked is the fact that the exploit was discovered in beta, and those who discovered it decided to use it to their own advantage, rather than report it.  If I knew that those people who used the exploit were also banned from any future beta tests, I would be much more comfortable.  A cheater with free reign in a test environment is a really bad thing.

Wow you really have no idea what happened, but dont let that stop you

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:09 PM   #27
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Yes, lets ban people who actually try to make this game better fro everyone.

While were at it lets not punish people for exploiting stuff that actually matters ie. endless heroic loot.

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:21 PM   #28
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Crismorn wrote:

schizmark wrote:

I think an important part of Smokejumper's statement that has been overlooked is the fact that the exploit was discovered in beta, and those who discovered it decided to use it to their own advantage, rather than report it.  If I knew that those people who used the exploit were also banned from any future beta tests, I would be much more comfortable.  A cheater with free reign in a test environment is a really bad thing.

Wow you really have no idea what happened, but dont let that stop you

/bugging them in beta then exploiting them anyways just because they were not fixed isn't much better.

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:23 PM   #29
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Spending more time fixing an issue that should have already been fixed is not either

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Old 03-01-2011, 07:27 PM   #30
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Crismorn wrote:

Spending more time fixing an issue that should have already been fixed is not either

Full blame for the quests still being explotable lies with SoE, but full blame for exploiting them is on the exploiter.

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