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Old 01-04-2005, 12:17 AM   #31
Gaige

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ForceUser wrote:
Yes, but the HO expends less power to produce the same effects.


I understand.  I'm telling you above lvl 40 there is little to no reason to do HOs.  The buffs/damage/debuffs are not as good as the normal player skills.
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Old 01-04-2005, 12:35 AM   #32
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From what I have seen in parsers it comes down to this.  IF the player knows their class and is paying attention and not half arsing things they dps on par with me. Sadly that doesn't happen often. Then when a parser is used they jsut say it doesn't work right and dps for junk.  Berserkers I seen have really nice dps while tanking if put them on the fury thing where they hit back wihen hit.  Nice if you have the extra healing to make up for ht beating they will recieve.
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Old 01-04-2005, 01:40 AM   #33
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Parsers use mathematical algorithims that factor in the time (down to the seconds logged in your logfile), the damage that you do, and calculate your damage per second. You can get overall breakdowns (hours of fights on diff mobs), mob specific breakdowns, breakdowns by weapon type, by combat art, etc.
 
You'll notice a lot of fluxuation based on the mob type, weapon of choice, con of mob, etc. There is no "one way" to fight every situation... might find yourself using diff weapons for diff situations etc.
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Old 01-04-2005, 02:04 AM   #34
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there is no reason to even use ho at 40.  i mean we're going through mbos like crazy and we still ahve almost full power constantly chain pulling.  mobs dies so fast that casters doesn't have to debuff them again.  oh and i hit a new record last night, 208 max dps on a lvl 49 giant at lvl 47 using heirophant crook.  i have few adepts but mostly app3 stuff.
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Old 01-04-2005, 03:00 AM   #35
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Jezekiell wrote:


Coraz2 wrote:


Jezekiell wrote:

Which brings up another point, it's too early to do any sorts of reliable parses


Then it's always too early to do parses, because this game doesn't end.





Not quite. When more people hits lvl 50, and the gear progression settles down, and skills doesn't progress more then is the time to do parses en mass.


So then scouts need level 50 raid gear to out dps me? My gear is hardly any different from the norm.
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Old 01-04-2005, 03:16 AM   #36
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I've been parsing just about every session for the past month and have pretty much come to the same conclusions.  Granted I don't announce to the group that i'm parsing as I'm more interested in my own progress (comparing weapon combos and such), so the other people might not be going all out, but for their sake I'm assuming they would be.  I haven't done a whole lot of parsing with Mages cause it's almost impossible to parse damage output on a per mob basis when they are AEing like crazy (but when looking at multiple mob encounters they win hands down).... plus I rarely am in groups with mages.  Comparing scouts to brawler classes (excluding the Bards who although boost group DPS with there songs don't provide a whole lot themselves) I would say the DPS of the Rogue and Predator classes compared with Brawler classes are all pretty close (assuming equal level).  I think the DPS of the brawlers however is the most consistent (especially when compared with Assassins).  I would say that a lot rides on how well you play your class and what level you are, and just about anything is noticeable over having nothing.  Being able to use your high damage combat arts the most times during a given fight is key hence why Assassin's Blade is cool, but it's only being used once a fight and once ever 4 mobs or so.  At mid 20s Rapid Swings, Swooping Dragon, and Bruising Strike we can dish out ~450 hp damage 2-3 times per fight, every fight. 
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Old 01-04-2005, 04:04 AM   #37
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yeap, our dmg is fairly consistant through out whole fight since we have no long refresh on our skills.
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Old 01-10-2005, 12:34 AM   #38
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So I'm on here reading the forums due to me wanting to make a monk alt.  I didn't realize all the threads on dps being compared to scouts.  I've seen many comments about how monks/bruisers are claiming they have better dps  than an assassin?  I'd believe that if the assassin of same level is apprenticed in skills, playing lazy, or not playing class correctly.  I'm a 32 assassin and monks/bruisers (though rarely group with many bruisers) may come close on sustained dps but it's not equal or surpassing by no means, unless the assassin is  what I mentioned previous.   It burns me when I see so many people that don't understand the assassin subclass.  They make blind statements such as we rely on our burst dmg (a.k.a assassin's blade/condeming blade).  Your not stating this as a person being educated in the assassin subclass and your enabling that bandwagoned mentality.  Our special, shadow blade/condeming blade is a 300 sec refresh and yes can burst our dps up when used but that is not what I weigh my heavy damage on.  That is a icing on the cake special so to speak.  On top of that I don't use that special given I've replaced it with my class training ability for shadow blade/condeming blade which is Elaa's perforating slice (same as shadowblade but even little higher in dmg than SB adept 1, and on a 225 sec timer instead).  Most of my dps comes from Ebon Blade 60 sec refresh which (adept III) I'm striking in the average 400 - 450 and a multitude of others on 10 sec refreshes to 30 sec refresh (adept 1) that strike in the realm of 130 -250.  This is not counting the smaller attacks around 30 to 100 which are on 10 sec timers, which we have a lot of.  In between all these specials there is the small submachine gun attacks 10 - 40 when not crit'ing to buffer the gaps.  Lastly, if you toggle throughour range specials which I use in limited situations, I average 150 to 390 dmg, then that too adds to the icing.  I haven't mentioned poisons yet - we also have poison damage which is a great extra.  If an assassin is not using their poisons then they are half arsing it and shouldn't wear the assassin label imho.  Poisons I use are 150 grade and every hit I contact with my dagger/axe I have a chance to proc one of the two I stack.  The poison spam is fairly high and does anywhere from 88 initial to 30 a tick for 4 ticks, depending on.  That's one type of 4, which the other four work differently but total dmg is all close to same by the time it's done.   The poison if it's done almost always has another poison proc follow it or the original even got over written and there's that 88 initial strike again.  I almost consider poison a constant 33 point dmg per tick dot during the whole fight unless the mob is poison resistant. 
 
Out of the two subclasses, monks & bruisers, I've group with monks mostly because there are more around.   Because I mostly see monks I'd say they are definitely the 2nd highest melee dps in the group, even with a 2nd assassin (due to assassin stacking issues) but I surpass a monks dps hands down my level and even two levels above.  This even stands true on a long fight.  My power pool is fairly good for my level which helps.  Usually the monk and myself are powering out about the same rate. 
 
Generalizing the scout class:  I hate it when people do this.  Predators and Rogues are different!  One thing that has to be remembered is that from what I've seen the order of dps, if played with good gear, equal levels, skills up to par, and not being lazy, are --- Assassin (highest), Brigands(next - ruse brings them very close), Rangers (if they can bow up) - swashies and rangers very close, bards.  You cannot possibly make a blanket statement after seeing parses stating monks seem to be higher than rogues (I knew you meant scouts)  as a general statement because within the scout classes the dps is so ranged.  That statement may hold water with 3 out of 5 scout classes but I'd be willing to go par on par with you.  I think your parses against me the assassin would be very contradicting to what you might have thought.  Now keep in mind that as we, including you, get higher noone fights from the front unless the situation dictates due to barrage dmg so this would be from behind the mob.   Also, if your parsing against a brigand as well and thinking your doing more dps - your most likely wrong.  Ruse is a strike that is a 60 sec refresh, and it FD's the brigand then follows with a quick strike to the belly (i.e Ruse) which has very extreme dmg potential.  This attack will not, from what I've seen, show up in a damage parser for that rogue due to the credit going to the group and not the brigand. 
 
My last point is this -- stating that scouts have the utility and therefore we monks/bruisers are ok with doing a little more dps or it makes sense is again a uneducated blanket statement.  The assassin and rangers (predators) are not like the other scouts (rogues).  The rogue subclasses have more group utilities than assassins or rangers.  Assassins and rangers can only pathfind (increased run speed - nominal), which by the way if you have a sow'er in the group, pathfind is slower and track (gimped tracking - short range and can't track mobs a few levels higher) - the big group utility...evac'ing (now this is our golden group utility).  So I'd say the best utility we have, speaking from an assassin point of view, is evac.  The others are nominal at best.   Rogues get another excellent group utility which we dont' have as predators - group sneak and there may be others.  I'd say as far as group utility goes comparing a predator subclass to a monk/bruiser our group utility is slightly higher because evac is so grandious.  But having the ability to tank, and monks make pretty good backup tanks from what I've seen, is a grandious capability within itself.  Take this from an assassin which is basically a paper doll compared to monk tanking.  I have excellent yellow mostly red gear and my ac is very high in the scout community for my level.  I cannot tank worth crap.
 
This post was to just set a few things clear from my perspective  given that I've seen way more comparing then I'd have ever thought here in these forums to an assassin.  The good thing I think this means is that for the most part the monk/bruiser class from a dps perspective is quite balanced.  Heck if your comparing yourselves on a level of equality or supercession when it comes to dps to an assassin, then you must be at least doing dps that is close to assassin's and that within itself is something to be hyped up about.  The reason I'm making a monk alt is because the fighting styles are very easy on the eyes.
 
Keep in mind this is from the perspective of a 32 assassin - post 40 I cannot speak for.  The tables might turn but only time will tell.
 
Edits: correcting grammatical errors and making sentences a bit more clear given that I know this post will be picked if I miss a key work here and there.
 

Message Edited by cprochal on 01-09-2005 11:44 AM

Message Edited by cprochal on 01-09-2005 11:46 AM

Message Edited by cprochal on 01-09-2005 11:51 AM

Message Edited by cprochal on 01-09-2005 12:05 PM

Message Edited by cprochal on 01-09-2005 12:07 PM

Message Edited by cprochal on 01-09-2005 12:19 PM

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Old 01-10-2005, 01:51 AM   #39
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cprochal wrote:
  I'd believe that if the assassin of same level is apprenticed in skills, playing lazy, or not playing class correctly. 

Any class that spams 2 3 4 5 6 2 3 4 5 6 during combat can do more damage than someone playing lazy.
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Old 01-10-2005, 01:36 PM   #40
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well all scout poisions at level 40+ are currently broken. When they are fixed, they will out dps monks. Also, HO wheel is kinda pointless dps wise. The only one we every try to get off is the power regen one. Or, if I am not in a full group of 6 people. See, IMHO, the HO wheel is more for the 3 or 4 person group. In a 6 person group, its just much more effecient to straight spam dps skills. you do more damage and its easier to pull off. At level 45 I have adept ice palm, adept waking dragon, adept icy talon, adept diving dragon.I hit for:500 ish - talon300 ish - palm300ish - diving140ish + dot - waking ( i think i may have waking and diving dragon mixed up hehe)So, that is a potential 1240 dmg + dot I can spam out in a few seconds. Much more effecient than using an HO in a full group.Now, when I duo, or have a 3 man group the HO wheel is much more appealing. I am trying to conserve power more, so I am not spamming combat skills. Fights last longer so you can go off each other and practice your HO wheels. Its easier to organize and communicate with less people. In a small group I'll try for it. In a full group, I just DPS.
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Old 01-10-2005, 06:11 PM   #41
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ya forgot to include lungning mongoose.  highest i've hit with it so far is a little bit over 800 with no block or parry and such.  and this is a 30 seconds refresh skill.

Message Edited by Pheihong on 01-10-2005 05:12 AM

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