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Old 03-25-2005, 09:55 PM   #181
QQ-Fatman

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GnomanWarrior wrote:


DPS has nothing to do with when you end the fight or when you start the fight... it a sole calculation upon when you cast the spel to when it does it's dmg. Recast is only factored in when there is a RECAST.  And if your factoring is recast, you have to 9as said by another) look at the spells list of th classes and see what else can be insterted into the gap of time to push the DPS calculation up... thus the Wizards have the spell single spell for DPS and the best over all list of spells to fill that gap.  Our Immoliation only takes 4.5 seconds.. it awsome.. it equal to nil Distortion is dmg and does about the same dmg, yet we get ice Comet, and 2 x BOF


Again, DPS of a spell = spell damage / (cast + recast). You have to count the recast time in. It is the AVERAGE damage a second over a period of time (and the time lenght shouldnt change the DPS.)
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:49 PM   #182
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Erowid wrote:
QQ, once again.... you must read an entire post before you can draw a conclusion or argument. You cannot line-item-veto a post when the end of the post proves the beginning.
 
So what? Do you always end your fight in like 3sec or 5sec? If the fight lasts over 20sec, devastation will do full damage!
 
I said
QQ,  Once again you fail to recognize 2 things.
 
1) Devastation is a Damage over time, not instant damage... it takes 20 seconds to do it full damage unlike Immoliation's 4.5 seconds.
2) Devastation is an Area Effect spell, not a single target... thus the scenario you managed to convey will only work in limitee conditions because it will land on other mobs...!
 
That is ONE point I was making with 2 parts.  It has 2 restriction over a DD spell. I am trying to get you to recognize this. Once you understand that... then we can discuss further about how it is used. 
 
Yes, If the tank pulls a single mob Devastation can be used and if the fight last over 20 seconds itwill do full damage.... and just wasted a shiz load of mana too. It's situational... meaning that it has to be a "cluth" call of wasting mana on Devastation for one mob for the added dmg is worth it... or just fireing off another Nil Distortion near the end would be better.

 
Wasted a lot of mana??? Stop saying a warlock is wasting a lot of mana in front of a wizard..lol
Now we're talking about DPS, there's nothing to do to mana cost. If you count that in, I'd say ball of flames has the worst DPM ever so I'll not be using it so I'll have very low dps.
 

What's bad to hit other mobs? So you're saying devastation would be a better spell if it only hits single target???
 
Your a wizard, you tell me how bad this would be fore YOU.  Tank pulls 4- lvl 52 Mobs,  All assist the tank (MA) and the other mobs are mezed or AE rooted. You accidentally use Immoliation on another mob... and he comes after you.  What do you do ..?  What does the group do...?  Do you know understand Devistation...?  it just doesnt accidentally hit 1 Mob, it hits all of them.

 
So you'd like it to hit only 1 target, right??
 

Good! If you like to calculate DSP this way...
The DPS on Nil Distortion is: 1930 / 2 = 965
The DPS on Ball of Flames is: 948 / (2+6+2) = 95
 
If I calculate DPS this way ..???  There is only 1 way to calculate Damage per Second, but I do know what your getting at... but,  you must first acknowledge an overwhelimg point....  that Wizards can do 3,657 dmg in an extremely short time.  Now to be able to do that again, it take 45 seconds... but that in no way takes away from 3 seconds = 3,657 dmg. A mob is running, or just turned on the healer and he's going down fast..... WHACK !   That the real power of of the Wizard.  It's not found in the numbers or in the dmg parse or even in the mana requirments, it the overwhelming power of the wizrds that they can dish out damage like no other.
 
What is your little calculation trying to convey (up in white) ..??  The formula is very wrong or incomplete if I gather what your trying to do.... and ONCE again your mental impairment of BELIEVING Wizards are gimped is in the way.
 
Damage per second:
Nil Distortion is: 1,930 / 2 = 965
Ball of Flames is: 948 / 2 = 474
Ball of Flames x 2 is: 1,896 / 10 = 189

 
You're totally wrong. Do you know there's a sepll called harm touch? It shadowknight's spell. It does like 400 damage and has a ZERO sec cast time. So what's its dps? 400 / 0 = infinity. NO! You have to count the recast time in. And DPS is an AVERAGE number. This is common sense.
 

OMG! Nil distortion is doing TEN TIMES MORE dps than ball of flames...lol  No, you just don't know how to calculate
 
But again... you have to take the Wizards spell list into context. SOE removed the shared timer with Ball of Fire and Ball of Flames, they DID NOT remove the shared timer of Dark Distortion and Nil Distortion... we can only use one or the other. So while Nil Distortions DPS is higher than 2 Ball of Flames.. you can also toss in Ball of Fire while you are waiting for Ball of Flames 6 seconds timer to expire. We have no other great nuke. Warlock have Dark Distortion (lvl 23), Nil Distortion (lvl 37)... THATS IT. (I have removed training spell from this discussion and are talkin pure spell list, casue I am told by a few lvl 50 Wizards they get off 2 Ice Comets per pull usually and don't rely on training spells at all.)
 
So instead of taking the DPS of 2 spells and compairing them, you MUST take the DPS of the spell that cleary are ment for a WIzards Burst of damage...   Wizard are not stuck with only 1 Nuke, they have 3 major nukes.
 
Damage per second:
Nil Distortion is: 1,930 / 2 = 965
Ball of Flames is: 948 / 2 = 474
Ball of Flames is: 948,  Ball of Fire is: 670,  Ball of Flames is: 948 = 2,566 / 8 seconds (2 seconds + 3 seconds + wait 3 seconds + 2 seconds)
 
Which is 320 DPS @ 2,566 damage.  Now here is the kicker... if you want to compair this real time scenario to 2 casts of Nil Distortion this is were the Wizards SHINE.  Yes, yes... you are going to go threw ALOT of mana... this is not in disput, but WIzards DPS is in fact massivly higher than a Warlock @ lvl 50 when talking strickly about direct damage.

 
320 DPS @ 2566 damage??? How about nil distortion? 1930 / 2 = 965. So according to your way to calculate, nil has 3 times more dps than wizard's chain-casting spells..
 

Both devastation and ice comet have aggro problem. If I cast ice comet on a ^^ mob at the begining of the fight, it'll kill me.
 
NO...!!  Ice Comet is instant damage it can be casted at any time during the fight and it's effect will be felt immediatly.  You choose when to cast Ice Comet and on what mob. Devastation needs TIME to do it's damage... thus there is pressure to cast it early to maximize it potential and get every tick of of it. Ice Comet's aggro is managble.. it casted on the mob the Main Tank is fighting and the tank is already high on the hate list. Devastation has no such shelter.

 
You can cast devastation when a ^^ mob has like 1/2 hp. It is very easy to learn when to cast a high damage dot. It usually takes 30~60sec to kill a high level ^^ mob.
 

1. On a single target (group mob, not solo one): A warlock is doing 0%~30% more dps than a wizard.

2. On multi-targets: A warlock is doing up to 400% more dps than a wizard.

3. All wizard's spells have very poor dpm (damage per mana) compared to warlock's spells.

1) Wrong, on single targets is where the Wizard can do the most DPS compaired to Warlocks.... how can you not see this. It very simple in just 2 spells (Immoliation and Ice Comet) the wizard can do 5,504 damage.  2 SPELLS !!!!!!


Warlocks have many good damage spells too. YOU, are the one who choose not to cast them and sit there doing nothing.


2) On Multiple targets a Warlock has the MIGHT be able to do 400% more DPS... Out of 50 pulls a WIzard will use Ice Comet on all 50, where as a Warlock Might cast Devastation 3 times.  6%


Again, devastation can be used in single target. Most of fights last long enough for devastation to do its full damage. It is not hard to learn when to cast it.


3) It's called Mana efficiency...  WIzards deal damage faster and more of it... they have a trade off, their spells cost more mana. Albeit WE ALL BELEIVE it too much... and thats why SOE are looking into it. 


WIzards deal damage faster? Yes in the first 3 sec if I cast ice comet. But it doesnt mean anything. As I said, most of fights last long enough for devastation to do its full damage.

Wizards deal more damage? No. On a single target, both classes do about the same damage. (if the warlock is not sitting there doing nothing lol) On multi-targets, warlocks can easily use group root -> devastation to do 400% more dps than wizards. Devastation kills 4 no arrowed mobs before the root breaks.

Mana cost: Yes we all agree wizards have this problem.


But you cannot compair your mana to Warlocks spells because they are a different class....  it's like compairing them to Necro's.... their mana efficienct is outstanding, they summon 1 pet (spell) and it does 90% of all their damage.  Warlocks are complaining about that. 


Wizard and warlock are very similar classes. You should always compare warlock to wizard, not warlock to necromancer.


QQfatman, what you need to do is discuss this with your fellow Wizards and start a constructive thread about how in-efficient Wizards spells are and get alot of Wizards to sign the thread (post on it) and bring the Wizard community together and let SOE know you mean business. Complaining that Warlocks are better... doesnt make Wizards better.


As I said, these two classes are very similar. I compare them to show SoE where the imbalanced parts are. I made a list of wizard broken spells. I'm only asking to reduce some spells mana cost and increase wizard's AE. I dont have problem if a warlock outdamage me by a little in a single target fight. But I dont like to see people saying wizards do much more damage on single target - which is not true.
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Old 03-25-2005, 10:56 PM   #183
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Again, DPS of a spell = spell damage / (cast + recast). You have to count the recast time in. It is the AVERAGE damage a second over a period of time (and the time lenght shouldnt change the DPS.)


 

Not always, no. You only have to count the recast if there is one. In an encounter, if a Wiz can get off 2 Ice Comets, then yes, you would count the recast time inbetween.  DPS for that spell, for that encounter = damage / (cast + recast)

However, if the Wiz only has time to get off 1, then no, you do not count recast time. DPS for that spell, for that eno[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]er = damage/cast

 


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Old 03-25-2005, 11:01 PM   #184
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Actaully, a better formular for calculating DPS for a spell would be....

 

damage / times cast * (cast time + recast)-recast

Since the damage is done upfront, you only count the recast in between the casts.

Message Edited by xsvhrs on 03-25-2005 10:03 AM

Message Edited by xsvhrs on 03-25-2005 10:09 AM

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Old 03-25-2005, 11:31 PM   #185
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QQFatman wrote:

 
Again, DPS of a spell = spell damage / (cast + recast). You have to count the recast time in. It is the AVERAGE damage a second over a period of time (and the time lenght shouldnt change the DPS.)


DPS of individual spells figured out this way is highly irrelevant though, as the recast time on spells when cast in sequence overlap each other.  To compare the dps of the 2 classes you would have to figure out the max dps repeatable chain of spells for each class and then compare. 
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Old 03-26-2005, 02:46 AM   #186
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Ok this is what you guys think:
Ice comet = 3600 / 3 = 1200 dps
Nil distortion = 1900*2 / (2+18+2) = 172 dps
 
So you guys agree with these as well?
Nil distortion = 1900 / 2 = 950
Ball of flames = 950*2 / (2+6+2) = 190
And this:
Harm touch = 400 / 0 = infinity dps
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Old 03-26-2005, 06:19 AM   #187
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Well, if everyone is fixated on theoretical DPS rather than what you can see and parse for yourselves on raids and crawls, then let's at least correct what I thought was an obvious inaccuracy.  Devastation doesn't take "20 seconds to do full damage".  It takes six seconds.  One "tick" in devastation is 1.5 seconds.  Spells like this and Immolation are effectively too instantaneous for me to regard them as damage over time.
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Old 03-26-2005, 10:36 AM   #188
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To whomever 1-stared all of my messages:
Fine! If you'd only like to hear what you wanna hear, I will not reply to this thread anymore. Feel free to 1-star this message too. Goodbye!
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Old 03-27-2005, 01:40 AM   #189
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El Chupacabras wrote:


Erowid wrote:
 
/snip
 
But you cannot compair your mana to Warlocks spells because they are a different class....  it's like compairing them to Necro's.... their mana efficienct is outstanding, they summon 1 pet (spell) and it does 90% of all their damage.  Warlocks are complaining about that. 

/snip


I've been looking at efficiency the last couple days, this statement is false.  I would love to get some hard numbers from the sorcerers but so far it looks like necro's have about 30% (probably less but erring on the side of caution til I get some hard numbers) the efficiency of sorcerers.  Necro's do about 3.5 damage per power spent on average... I know both wizards and warlocks are waaaaaay above that.  Feel free to take a gander at http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=30&message.id=5205 as I would love to get ya'll's perspective on power costs.



Ive been in groups with Necro's and been using a parse..  Over 50% of their dmg comes from their pet. It's closer to 60% from what i have witnessed. In CSM you see soimething like this:
 
Necro 2853 (1933)  the () is what the pet did..!!
 
So if 50% of their dmg comes from their pet.... that cost them only 300 mana 4 hours ago... they are extremly effcient class.
 
 
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Old 03-27-2005, 01:46 AM   #190
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QQFatman wrote:


GnomanWarrior wrote:


DPS has nothing to do with when you end the fight or when you start the fight... it a sole calculation upon when you cast the spel to when it does it's dmg. Recast is only factored in when there is a RECAST.  And if your factoring is recast, you have to 9as said by another) look at the spells list of th classes and see what else can be insterted into the gap of time to push the DPS calculation up... thus the Wizards have the spell single spell for DPS and the best over all list of spells to fill that gap.  Our Immoliation only takes 4.5 seconds.. it awsome.. it equal to nil Distortion is dmg and does about the same dmg, yet we get ice Comet, and 2 x BOF


Again, DPS of a spell = spell damage / (cast + recast). You have to count the recast time in. It is the AVERAGE damage a second over a period of time (and the time lenght shouldnt change the DPS.)


Nope, If a green mob has 4,000 hitpoints and you cast Ice Comet and your tank it it for 400 it is dead. Recast is a calculation the the CLASSes DPS, not a certain spell. If you don't recast the spell, then how is it factered into the damage per second you just did...?

Damage over Time of the spell it what your talking about. It doesnt take Ice Comet 47 seconds to do damage.... it takes 2 seconds.

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Old 03-27-2005, 02:08 AM   #191
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QQFatman wrote:
To whomever 1-stared all of my messages:
Fine! If you'd only like to hear what you wanna hear, I will not reply to this thread anymore. Feel free to 1-star this message too. Goodbye!



Your rebuttle to my long post only restates what you've been saying for the last week.... yet me and other have stated compelling scenarios to show you the true power of the wizards.
 
You cannot take ONE spell and repeated beat it to death to try and prove your point, without ackowledgeing that the Wizards themselves have a better arsenal of spells. Yes, Wizards are ineffcient with their spells... but they are almost TWICE as powerful as a warlock in pure dmg.
 
Warlocks have 2 main Nukes, Dark Distortion(23) and Nil Distortion(37)... unfortunatly they are on the same timer.  Whilist a Wizard get three USABLE main nukes;  Ball of Fire(23), Ball of Flames(37) and Ice Comet(50). Now, before you go running off at the mouth and screaming bloody murder... look at what I am trying to say. All these Wizards spells can be chain casted one right after the other... that is ALL I am saying.
 
When need be, Wizard can mana dump and reek Havoc.
 
Would you rather just get no Ice Comet and have Ball of Flames do 50% more dmg and use it from lvl 37 to lvl 50 and have it as your main nuke... or would you rather have it the way it is.....???
 
 
 
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Old 03-28-2005, 11:27 PM   #192
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Warlocks have 2 main Nukes, Dark Distortion(23) and Nil Distortion(37)... unfortunatly they are on the same timer
 

 

Hmm... thought that was taken out about a month ago...

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Old 03-29-2005, 11:35 AM   #193
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OMG! This stupid debate is still going on.....
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Old 03-29-2005, 01:02 PM   #194
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Alfred75 wrote:OMG! This stupid debate is still going on.....

Heh - thats what I just thought
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Old 03-29-2005, 09:31 PM   #195
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Guys I agree that the Warlocks and Wizards are not balanced. But are they supposed to be? I know that Wizards are doing less damage in a group enounter and a bit less on a single mob, which will be fixed. In the 15 years I have been playing RPG's I can say that wizards AE's are not the greatest but the should always have the biggest single nukes and do the most damage to a single target. I think SOE should put more effort into makeing these to classes different by have one great at AE and one great at single targets, this would solve all of these problems. WIzards would feel great for haveing the biggest nukes and takeing down single mobs the best while warlocks would be able to take down a group of mobs in about the same time it would take a wizard to nuke them all individually. There has to be differences in classes otherwise what is the use of different classes. Well that is enough with my rant.
 
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Old 03-30-2005, 01:44 AM   #196
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Honestly my biggest gripe is the power costs for our spells.  I'm living with the fact that a Warlock is gonna do more damage than me.  But any attempt to even come into the DPS realm of a Warlock leaves me drained of mana while the Warlock is still at around half his power. Decrease the resists to and power usage for our nukes and I will live with it.  Would be nice to have similar DPS at least on a single MOB but it's not gonna happen.  8 pages and not once has a dev even bothered to respond.  Doubtful they will do anything.
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Old 03-30-2005, 02:05 AM   #197
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GnomanWarrior wrote:


Ive been in groups with Necro's and been using a parse..  Over 50% of their dmg comes from their pet. It's closer to 60% from what i have witnessed. In CSM you see soimething like this:
 
Necro 2853 (1933)  the () is what the pet did..!!
 
So if 50% of their dmg comes from their pet.... that cost them only 300 mana 4 hours ago... they are extremly effcient class.
 
 



Pets cost about 100 power every 10 seconds, give or take a little.  The last pet has an efficiency rating of about 4.6:1, not very efficient at all.
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Old 03-30-2005, 02:10 AM   #198
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Violatortn wrote:
Warlocks have 2 main Nukes, Dark Distortion(23) and Nil Distortion(37)... unfortunatly they are on the same timer
 

Hmm... thought that was taken out about a month ago...



Sorry, Dark Distortion and Nil Distortion are on the same timer.... basically Nil is the replacment for Dark.  What you thought you read was that WIzards Ball of Fire & Ball of Flames timers we removed...so you basically assumed it was the same for Warlocks.
 
This thread is getting very tireing... only because some people look at each spell instead of the entire spell line.  It's time you looked up some lvl 50 WIzards and spoke to them (like I have)... none of them like going low on mana during a battle... but they all will tell you that it's intoxicating as hell to mana dump and burn holes in Mobs when the party is in trouble. Yes, you have a longer recovery... and thats why Bat Idols and potions are for... but your alive and thanks to the Wizards ability to dump mobs.
 
On the contrary, Warlocks are persistant, constant damage dealers that are extremely effcient, but in no way can touch the "afterburn" effect of the Wizard.  Problem is, in a crisis a Warlock doesnt do anything different than when normal pulls come. Wizards are conservative and calculating.... but when need be can go threw thier whole mana bar within 60 seconds...  thats impressive.
 
 
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Old 03-30-2005, 10:46 PM   #199
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Erowid wrote:


Violatortn wrote:
Warlocks have 2 main Nukes, Dark Distortion(23) and Nil Distortion(37)... unfortunatly they are on the same timer
 

Hmm... thought that was taken out about a month ago...



Sorry, Dark Distortion and Nil Distortion are on the same timer.... basically Nil is the replacment for Dark.  What you thought you read was that WIzards Ball of Fire & Ball of Flames timers we removed...so you basically assumed it was the same for Warlocks.
 
This thread is getting very tireing... only because some people look at each spell instead of the entire spell line.  It's time you looked up some lvl 50 WIzards and spoke to them (like I have)... none of them like going low on mana during a battle... but they all will tell you that it's intoxicating as hell to mana dump and burn holes in Mobs when the party is in trouble. Yes, you have a longer recovery... and thats why Bat Idols and potions are for... but your alive and thanks to the Wizards ability to dump mobs.
 
On the contrary, Warlocks are persistant, constant damage dealers that are extremely effcient, but in no way can touch the "afterburn" effect of the Wizard.  Problem is, in a crisis a Warlock doesnt do anything different than when normal pulls come. Wizards are conservative and calculating.... but when need be can go threw thier whole mana bar within 60 seconds...  thats impressive.
 
 


http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=72

 

Maybe you should reread live update #3, the 2 nukes dont share timers so no need to talk down to wizards and how they dont know what they talking about.  I actually don't wanna get involved in this debate since both sides seem to want to post false information but I'll just post my opinion.  Wizards at level 50 are a very decent class, I'm very happy with mine.  However i gotta give the edge to warlocks when it comes to dps and I dont think a wizard's utility(and when i say utility I mean evacSMILEY ) makes up for the damage difference.  On raids warlocks steall aggro more often than anyother class I know and a wizard never steals it probably due to every mob being immune to either fire or ice cutting our dps in half. 

But please dont say a wizard can do more dmg to a mob than a warlock can cause thats just a lie, its hypocritical to tell wizards to look at facts when you yourself actually ignore them.  I know alot of 50 wizards and warlocks and no warlocks deny, in fact no 50 in the game would deny, that warloc dmg is better than a wizards, so I dont know why you try to say thats how it is, the level of the differnce might come into debate ('m actually in the camp where its not that big of a difference and hence not a big deal) but stop trying to deny there isnt a difference

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Old 03-31-2005, 02:04 AM   #200
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Wow I am surprised this is still going on....even after they nerfed us....SMILEY
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Old 03-31-2005, 08:54 AM   #201
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I havn't read the entire thread, but in the first couple pages few warlocks were confused why such a big outburst by the wizard community. The answer is simple. There are way more wizards then there are warlocks. I'm on najena server and when i do a /who all wiz usually it responds with 100+. When I do a /who all warlock its usually floating around 30-40. Safe to say based on my server at least that there is at least 3-4 times more wizards then warlocks. Hence when an issue comes up wiz forum will explode much faster then the warlock forum.
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Old 03-31-2005, 06:36 PM   #202
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Kulprid wrote:
I havn't read the entire thread, but in the first couple pages few warlocks were confused why such a big outburst by the wizard community. The answer is simple. There are way more wizards then there are warlocks. I'm on najena server and when i do a /who all wiz usually it responds with 100+. When I do a /who all warlock its usually floating around 30-40. Safe to say based on my server at least that there is at least 3-4 times more wizards then warlocks. Hence when an issue comes up wiz forum will explode much faster then the warlock forum.



Right, right, there's no serious issue here, everything's fine, it's just a bunch of Wizard crybabies eh?

*shakes his head in disbelief*

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Old 03-31-2005, 10:07 PM   #203
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Kulprid wrote:
I havn't read the entire thread, but in the first couple pages few warlocks were confused why such a big outburst by the wizard community. The answer is simple. There are way more wizards then there are warlocks. I'm on najena server and when i do a /who all wiz usually it responds with 100+. When I do a /who all warlock its usually floating around 30-40. Safe to say based on my server at least that there is at least 3-4 times more wizards then warlocks. Hence when an issue comes up wiz forum will explode much faster then the warlock forum.




Right, right, there's no serious issue here, everything's fine, it's just a bunch of Wizard crybabies eh?

*shakes his head in disbelief*


I really don't think thats what he meant.

He is simply saying that where there are more people in a group there is bound to be a larger response just due to the numbers of people affected.

 

 

 

 

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Old 04-01-2005, 01:35 AM   #204
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Draw4wild wrote:


Erowid wrote:



Warlocks have 2 main Nukes, Dark Distortion(23) and Nil Distortion(37)... unfortunatly they are on the same timer
 

Hmm... thought that was taken out about a month ago...



Sorry, Dark Distortion and Nil Distortion are on the same timer.... basically Nil is the replacment for Dark.  What you thought you read was that WIzards Ball of Fire & Ball of Flames timers we removed...so you basically assumed it was the same for Warlocks.
 
This thread is getting very tireing... only because some people look at each spell instead of the entire spell line.  It's time you looked up some lvl 50 WIzards and spoke to them (like I have)... none of them like going low on mana during a battle... but they all will tell you that it's intoxicating as hell to mana dump and burn holes in Mobs when the party is in trouble. Yes, you have a longer recovery... and thats why Bat Idols and potions are for... but your alive and thanks to the Wizards ability to dump mobs.
 
On the contrary, Warlocks are persistant, constant damage dealers that are extremely effcient, but in no way can touch the "afterburn" effect of the Wizard.  Problem is, in a crisis a Warlock doesnt do anything different than when normal pulls come. Wizards are conservative and calculating.... but when need be can go threw thier whole mana bar within 60 seconds...  thats impressive.
 
 


http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=72

 

Maybe you should reread live update #3, the 2 nukes dont share timers so no need to talk down to wizards and how they dont know what they talking about.  I actually don't wanna get involved in this debate since both sides seem to want to post false information but I'll just post my opinion.  Wizards at level 50 are a very decent class, I'm very happy with mine.  However i gotta give the edge to warlocks when it comes to dps and I dont think a wizard's utility(and when i say utility I mean evacSMILEY ) makes up for the damage difference.  On raids warlocks steall aggro more often than anyother class I know and a wizard never steals it probably due to every mob being immune to either fire or ice cutting our dps in half. 

But please dont say a wizard can do more dmg to a mob than a warlock can cause thats just a lie, its hypocritical to tell wizards to look at facts when you yourself actually ignore them.  I know alot of 50 wizards and warlocks and no warlocks deny, in fact no 50 in the game would deny, that warloc dmg is better than a wizards, so I dont know why you try to say thats how it is, the level of the differnce might come into debate ('m actually in the camp where its not that big of a difference and hence not a big deal) but stop trying to deny there isnt a difference




Draw, welcome to the debate...... now go back and read this entire 8 pages before you assume anything.... you paint me as an enemy.  In this thread there are THREE debates in one. The main issue of the Wizards I support and give reason for my support. The clash between the classes is why I remain, as to be a ambassador to my class.  While your at it READ what you quoted of mine before you ignorantly post a link to text thats errant.
 
See....  where is say " Warlocks have 2 main Nukes, Dark Distortion(23) and Nil Distortion(37)... unfortunatly they are on the same timer. " <--------  I didnt have to read it from SOE, I can simply test it to let you know that it is indeed FACT.
 
Secondly, Wizards CAN do more DPS than a warlock....   albiet they will be out of mana within 60 seconds. But, that doesn't invalidate my statement....   read my post a few pages back of why this is.
 
 
 
 

Message Edited by Erowid on 03-31-2005 12:36 PM

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Old 04-01-2005, 04:55 AM   #205
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BlazTinker wrote:

Kulprid wrote:I havn't read the entire thread, but in the first couple pages few warlocks were confused why such a big outburst by the wizard community. The answer is simple. There are way more wizards then there are warlocks. I'm on najena server and when i do a /who all wiz usually it responds with 100+. When I do a /who all warlock its usually floating around 30-40. Safe to say based on my server at least that there is at least 3-4 times more wizards then warlocks. Hence when an issue comes up wiz forum will explode much faster then the warlock forum.

Right, right, there's no serious issue here, everything's fine, it's just a bunch of Wizard crybabies eh?

*shakes his head in disbelief*


I dont see it as a major issue, maybe a small imbalance.
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Old 04-01-2005, 06:13 PM   #206
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Alfgand wrote:

Kulprid wrote:
I havn't read the entire thread, but in the first couple pages few warlocks were confused why such a big outburst by the wizard community. The answer is simple. There are way more wizards then there are warlocks. I'm on najena server and when i do a /who all wiz usually it responds with 100+. When I do a /who all warlock its usually floating around 30-40. Safe to say based on my server at least that there is at least 3-4 times more wizards then warlocks. Hence when an issue comes up wiz forum will explode much faster then the warlock forum.




Right, right, there's no serious issue here, everything's fine, it's just a bunch of Wizard crybabies eh?

*shakes his head in disbelief*


I really don't think thats what he meant.

He is simply saying that where there are more people in a group there is bound to be a larger response just due to the numbers of people affected.

 

 

 

 




I know exactly what he said. His post implies that the Wizard Outcry is not due to a real problem at all...it's simply due to numbers.

Sure, take the easy way out, don't compare spell dmg, cast/recast timers, mana cost, or raid mob resistances. Keep believing if you will that there's no problem or that it is insignificant. That still won't make it true.

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Old 04-01-2005, 08:37 PM   #207
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I know exactly what he said. His post implies that the Wizard Outcry is not due to a real problem at all...it's simply due to numbers.

 
Ummm, wrong.....
 
He said "Hence when an issue comes up" ...notice no indication that the issue is not valid
 
Then  "up wiz forum will explode much faster then the warlock forum." .... it will explode faster than on the warlock.
 
There is nothing stating the issue is not valid, he is simply stating that ANY issue, will have a greater responce due to the sheer numbers of Wizards.
 
HE NEVER SAID THE ISSUE WAS NOT VALID.
 
Read the words and try to understand what the words mean, not read your own biases into them.
 

 

 
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Old 04-01-2005, 09:13 PM   #208
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Alfgand wrote:

I know exactly what he said. His post implies that the Wizard Outcry is not due to a real problem at all...it's simply due to numbers.

Ummm, wrong.....
He said "Hence when an issue comes up" ...notice no indication that the issue is not valid
Then "up wiz forum will explode much faster then the warlock forum." .... it will explode faster than on the warlock.
There is nothing stating the issue is not valid, he is simply stating that ANY issue, will have a greater responce due to the sheer numbers of Wizards.
HE NEVER SAID THE ISSUE WAS NOT VALID.
Read the words and try to understand what the words mean, not read your own biases into them.





Hm...ok, let's have another look at his post:



Kulprid wrote:
I havn't read the entire thread, but in the first couple pages few warlocks were confused why such a big outburst by the wizard community. The answer is simple. There are way more wizards then there are warlocks.



He completely disregards the mere possibility that there's a valid reason for the huge outcry(that we are significantly underpowered when compared to warlocks). Instead, without even bothering to read the post, he goes ahead and offers his "simple answer:" that there are more Wizards than Warlocks.

By stating this, he invalidates any other possible explanations other than his "simple answer." So, he is effectively claiming the Wizard Issue is not valid, because his "simple answer" fully explains the "big outburst by the Wizard Community." There's absolutely no room for any other explanations once you assume that "the answer is simple: there are way more wizards than warlocks."

If someone says they had 10 ducks, 2 ran away and 3 died, do they really have to say that 5 are left after that?

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Old 04-01-2005, 10:43 PM   #209
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By stating this, he invalidates any other possible explanations other than his "simple answer." So, he is effectively claiming the Wizard Issue is not valid, because his "simple answer" fully explains the "big outburst by the Wizard Community." There's absolutely no room for any other explanations once you assume that "the answer is simple: there are way more wizards than warlocks."


Where in his post did he actually say the issue was not valid...NO WHERE.

You are again reading that into what he wrote not what he acutally wrote.

From his post you cannot infer that he thinks the issue is not valid, his post simply refers to the size of the response.. "such a big outburst".

You are assuming that he thinks the issue is not valid. The words of the post NEVER say this.

If he intended to imply the issue was not valid, he did a poor job because he never actually states that the issue is not valid.

You can lead a horse to a book but you cannot make him read.

BTW, There are no ducks.

Message Edited by Alfgand on 04-01-2005 09:49 AM

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Old 06-01-2005, 10:25 PM   #210
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I dont know what kind of crappy tanks you guys have but I let Devistation fly as soon as it pops
 
on the zek instance I cast all 4 of my aoe spells, then devistation, single target nukes, back ta aoes devistation single targets, rince and repeat till either we win or loose. 
 
Devistation was only over powered back when it was 18 sec recast, thats the only time I have really got owned by devistation SMILEY
 
If you really want to be equal give us 3k poison and magic buffs as well as giving them the ability to land nukes.
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