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Old 10-14-2014, 05:43 PM   #1
Denzello

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since we arent able to do any real group/raid content testing yet, Ill leave this open for further discussions...altho Im very aware(afraid) of the road mystics are heading to in this exp pack.

what we know:
- no real ward boosts (compared to the damage output of endgame heroic names)
- the new prestige wont make any difference
- most likely, we will be needed as hp buff bots
- druids and clerics remain your first option as heals

more to come when we can test the harder stuff, maybe it'll proof me wrong (lol)
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Old 10-14-2014, 05:51 PM   #2
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Good thing you don't by far have the best buffs in game, great debuffs, good personal dps, and are still capable of healing.
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Old 10-14-2014, 06:23 PM   #3
Denzello

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good dps yes, good buffs yes, good debuffs? only worth one using is the sta debuff, also have you tried to solo heal lets say DOM in potent gear? or solo heal MAW in OT group? well maybe you did, gratz on being 1 of a handufull of mystics ww whos geared out to the teeth.
I just dont see how a 150-180k single target ward is gonna cut it in AoM...and not even mentioning the pvp situation.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:57 PM   #4
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You heal with group heal, ancestral channeling (that oberon reset) , the heroic en lines, probably heal on ward termination, mythical spirit tap, I agree that solo healing a group with dot on everyone is messy, but paired with a druid or another healer you would be quite great. Bolster is awesome, as example on the twin tank needs to run away fast ... bolster run speed is then welcome.

I still sort of agreed, i used to love my mystic almost as much as my warden, but in TOV i had zero incentive to play my lovely mystic. I truly hope that they find a way to balance more healers without making warders compulsory like in the old days.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:38 PM   #5
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Being able to solo heal without actually healing sounds like more of an accomplishment for the raid than for the healer in question. Not that this is in any way a slight against you (you're awesome!), i'm just saying, geared raid forces that know how to avoid damage and not need heals make healing easier.
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Old 10-15-2014, 12:32 AM   #6
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ofc I forgot you so called elite raiding guilds dont do P/U grps...sure, gimme a well geared zerk with a dirge out of Validus or H&E and ill solo DOM naked too...jesus f*** christ...
its your kind of ppl who kept sweettalking the devs in ventrilo that everything is alright with shamans with no need to actually adjust wards/heals over the last year...and thats what we got now....regular folks who want to mainly pvp and do the heoics from time to time get screwed over.
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Old 10-15-2014, 12:37 AM   #7
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Here's an example of a "buff mystics post" if I were going to write one:

A) I cannot personally complain about the new shaman prestige. From what it looks like, it could be very powerful. But I will not know the following things until a L100 buffer is added:
- Is it a shared group ward or a per-person ward?
- Is 20% potency relevant, or do heroic/raid mobs have 300 potency?
- Does the recast start upon use or will the recast start after it wears off?
- What is the radius of the buff?
- Will it dispel off you when you run out of range and then back in, will it stay on you as long as you were in range when it were casted, and will it apply to you if you were out of range when it was casted but run into range after?
- What does the new gear look like? How relevant is 4000 ability mod?

B) Our offensive utility is falling behind. The new prestige abilities make Bolster even better, but does Mystic Ritual, Stampede, Full Moon, and Bolster compare to a Warden with Windblade and Instinct on the entire group? Here are numbers proving one way or the other: [Sparkly pictures, math, more letters]


Those are really the only two things I can think to complain about on a mystic. As to your pvp comment: PvP in this game will never be relevant and you will not get classes balanced around it.


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Old 10-15-2014, 02:33 AM   #8
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I went total heal spec on my fury once and carried a shadowknight through dominion with arcane/cryptic gear with a 2hander.
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:17 AM   #9
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Yep, a shaman does great when paired with a druid. Of course the benefit of having a druid is that you don't need a second healer... hrm
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:50 AM   #10
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I solo healed Dominion in 0/3 potent gear, 80% of my spells being apprentice 1, and 2 jewelry slots empty on a mystic that was 3 days old and still doesn't have his ER done 2 months later. Considering I could solo heal maw on my fury without even casting heal spells more than a few times a minute, I am 100% certain I could solo heal it on a mystic too.

As far as debuffs go: It'll be even easier to utilize dps/haste/strength debuffs with the new predator/rogue ability.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:43 AM   #11
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We had to swallow that pill a long time ago already and is not what Im asking for either.
But literally taking out one class and make another that much stronger so it becomes your only (first) option for surviveability, then something is messed up and needs to be looked at, especially in pvp.
Now ever since ToV was released mystics became heavily dependend on GOOD tanks in group pvp (and maybe even pve too), they sure are able to keep you up in a fight, but god forbid you happen to run into avarage p/u players...the class just becomes a one-way train to frustration road. Whereas you can simple take a warden and dont have to bother with failure.
Listen, dont we all play this game because we enjoy playing the classes we choosed to stick with? I simply want back the fun factor mystics once had, and the funny part is it would only take 4 mouse clicks for a dev to double the base ward amounts and make alot of sad pandas ******* happy...will be it be OP or screw up the mechanics? **** who knows, Id more then glad to deal with that rather then do nothing.
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Old 10-15-2014, 12:19 PM   #12
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It would be OP. Druids will always be the best healers in pvp because all of their heals have faster cast times and work on a per-target basis, where clerics and shamans are shared, which can and usually will lend heavier heals to specifically tanks.

What wouldn't be OP would be adding a small heal to the wards, but then they'd have to rework the defiler mythical since it already does that for defilers...
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:44 PM   #13
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actually Im gonna leave the rant (for now) since this thread was made for beta feedback, gotta see what the ward is capable of first before going on I guess.

funny tho, 1 year old and still up to date https://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/index.php?threads/the-state-of-defilers-in-tov.542678/
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Old 10-15-2014, 02:39 PM   #14
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If they're going to insist on continuing to add wards to the game but not fixing/balancing them, why don't they just give the ward endline to druids and give shamans some kind of HoT endline.

That way the things that make HoTs powerful for certain types of content and wards for other (haha) have a more equal impact on the different classes.
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Old 10-15-2014, 04:46 PM   #15
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What I would like to see is a balance of healing potential, and what I mean by that is the ability given each class is balanced and capable at base levels to do the same potential, right now wards are soaked up first (non mitigated) then the others are taken however a druid and cleric both have much more healing potential than shaman. I would like to see this looked at
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:07 PM   #16
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Probably because that completely destroys the class design (even more than it's already been).
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:46 PM   #17
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Well the class design at the moment is that shamans are supposed to de-prioritize their key mechanic of warding (i counted once, i think my defiler has something like 16 wards) and focus on spells such as Channeling (mass direct heal), Totemic Protection (reactive-type heal/HoT), group heal and other non-ward heals. I don't think you're going to break the EXISTING design by giving us an extra HoT.
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Old 10-16-2014, 12:43 AM   #18
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No matter what some folks think, Mystics are DOA nowadays. I betrayed my Mystic of nearly 9 years to a Defiler just to keep playing my original character from 2004. My poorly geared Warden is a MUCH better healer than my raid geared Defiler and I shudder to remember how bad my Mystic became after ToV. Even Bolster was demoted to nearly unwanted after the two Bolstered purple war runes were introduced.
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:35 AM   #19
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We play two completely different games then.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:34 AM   #20
Denzello

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more like you and the rest of us live in two completely different worlds.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:15 AM   #21
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Shamans do not need overall healing potential increased to that of the other classes that would turn the tables back the other way and make us too OP. The reason our healing potential is less is because wards count before hots and reactives and are a far more EFFICIENT way of healing which is why shamans still own heal parses (because the whole ward gets consumed), hots and reactives are however a far more EFFECTIVE way of healing which is where the disparity lies and those who can't actually read ACT get the ***** when they see the shaman owning the heal parse, they just don't get that we cannot maintain wards 100% of the time and this USED TO BE our primary healing mechanic. What shamans do need, is something to combat the fact that wards are down more than they are up and we have limited tools to manage healing when everything is on cooldown. This is more the case with mystics than with defilers but we share the share the same problem overall. Giving shamans more wards doesn't help either unless we can cast them while casting group heals, yeah that wouldn't be OP or anything Tongue

Other healers boast about how little they have to press buttons to keep their group up while shamans have to work to get the same result. Worst part of all of this is that other healers have become lazy and unreliable cos they're so busy NOT pressing heal buttons and boasting about it. The shaman ends up solo healing anyway and working 10 times as hard as the other healer would have if they only pressed 2 buttons. Next time someone does this to me watch me dump healing on them like a hot potato. No, noone cares about your 1million templar dps if that's all you're bringing to the raid I'd rather solo heal if you don't plan to do anything useful.

Are Mystics DOA - no they're just not a faceroll 2 button = win class like druids and templars they have to be played totally different than pre-ToV and if you plan to rely on wards as your primary healing mechanic then you probably need to re-evaluate how you play the class, learn the fights, know your abilities and time them appropriately, you can't just expect to keep your group alive button mashing anything anytime.

Are the heal classes imbalanced - yes, noone cares so get over it. I used to care but it was a waste of energy.

If you want to play a faceroll class go play a druid or templar, otherwise stick to mystic and laydown the numbers while topping the heals, if your group dies and you're doing your best and your heal partner isn't healing then the buck lies with them. As for tanks in fabled dreadlord gear, you'd better use temps like a pro, I'm not wasting effort healing you, have fun dying.

The best thing that could be done to fix healer imbalance would be to remove the crit bonus penalty on wards completely, the increase to the size of wards would be tiny as evidenced by the lift to to 80% in December but at least it would mean we get the same benefit from the same upgrade as any other healer class.
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Old 10-16-2014, 12:10 PM   #22
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This needs to happen - just because it's long overdue. But i hate that people always bring this up as the first thing because - as you mention - this would actually do very little. It would fix nothing and DEVs would be like "hail thy saviour, we're done now!" and we'd be left holding our limp wards in our hands while the rest of the world continues to laugh.

Either **really** fix wards or start giving us abilities other than wards (AND possibly give other classes wards, so that everyone is equally screwed over by their lack of effectiveness). Since wards are no longer our primary healing method anyway, who cares if other classes get some?
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Old 10-16-2014, 07:39 PM   #23
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Wards also need to be added into the legendary/fabled/mythicrit system. Or all heals should be removed from it. I could go either way.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:20 PM   #24
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The ward display on you would be higher if it got a legendary/fabled/mythicrit. But when you cast 100 st wards on yourself and it's the same number every time...

I'm 100% certain wards cannot leg/fab/mythicrit.
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:40 PM   #25
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That's a bug then, since in the crit thread, when i asked what amounts wards gain, the dev response was "same % as the dmg"

(my experience is the same btw from casting on self for like 10 minutes - no specially big numbers)
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:15 AM   #26
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Are you sure they AREN'T part of it? I've not been able to produce one, but i assumed it's because ward critting (even regular) doesn't show up in logs, so you woudln't see it.

I'd love to know from a developer how it's set up to work.

1. Is the ward supposed to show up on its own line?
2. If it's not supposed to show up as a mythical in the log, but we're supposed to tell by numbers alone, i'd like to know what number I should be looking for... if my regular ward is 300k, should be looking for a (300%) 900k ward to tell me that i've done a mythical?

Maybe if they can't get it to log properly they could get a special border for the maintained icon or something.
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:32 AM   #27
Denzello

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speaking of numbers, did you ran the new heroics at lv 100 yet on the mystic? how was you doing solo healing? especially with the new prestige ward.
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Old 10-17-2014, 12:30 PM   #28
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Heals attached to the wards are critting but not the wards themselves.
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:46 AM   #29
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Yea.. And I tanked Dom in CoE gear with half my jewelry missing, all apprentice spells and my computer crashing every 15 seconds. Still topped the DPS meter too! /honest!
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Old 10-18-2014, 04:47 AM   #30
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Dom is a joke to heal, which is why any healer can heal it like that. The only damage is on the tank, and good tanks don't need heals this expansion...

Only reason you even need to bring a priest to the zone is to group cure on mob 3.


And no, I haven't healed the new zones on a mystic, but they all look like jokes from a healing standpoint. My Monk is still an invincible god and the only heals really needed remain aoe.
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