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Old 10-23-2012, 05:41 PM   #1
jjlo69

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Ranger Prestige

Left Side

Blazing shot

- having to be behind the mob to use hinders it usefulness for solo/duo/ small group rangers. recommend removing this restriction. restriction was removed

Super heated Shot changed to ability called Extra Pitch

- working as intended.

Constant burning

- damage is too low. recommend increasing the damage by 15%

Wrapped in flames

- Changed to effect whole group still working as intended

Burning intensity

- Bugged  when you get this to trigger it does two thing it gives you burning intensity which does nothing but count down from one min and refreshes if you hit an ability that triggers it . when you let it drop it lets you get the potency and it triggers on every ability you cast that triggers it.  def needs fixed. Fixed as of 10/24 patch though looking over some rough numbers the added pot for the time it gonna take to get to 12 triggers seems lil low.

 

 

 

Right Side

This side needs a lot of work.

Rapid salvo

-needs more base damage overall in comparison to blazing shot.

-6 targets max is NOT enough. Recommend changing to 8 targets( and just have it count for 6 triggers). was changed to 8 targets

-is not modified by either killing spree or arrow rain prestige. recommend as a minimal it get effected by arrow rain.

- cone area of effect for this ability feels narrow. recommend widening the area of effect.

- the added proc damage is Extremely low to the point it is useless to have a proc on this ability. recommend doubling or tripling the proc for this ability.

Empowering salvo

-working as intended

Rapid fire

-the added proc effect is in the same boat as the proc damage I mentioned in rapid salvo. Recommend triple or more damage on this prestige.

Crippling salvo

- 6% reduction of weapon damage bonus of target it hits. seems to be working as intended although i have not found a use for it as of yet. recommend removing this for something thing else.  Changed to a 5% dehate per rank as of 11/1/12  patch

 

Arrow Salvo

-  would like to see this work for storm of arrows as well as stream of arrow. it would give the added punch that seems to be missing from this side of prestige overall.  Otherwise it works as intended was changed to include storm of arrows to 1 sec cast and 90 sec reuse.

 

Prestige mastery

Blazing weapons

- damage is almost on par though it is a proc on 5 minute recast temps. which mean it will not trigger enough in that 1:12 for Honed reflexes or 51 sec killing spree for the damage to matter. Recommend changing this to proc chance to 6/12/18 instead of 3/6/9 as it is now. or add the effect to be triggered by make shift arrow which is also a 5 minute temp with a set amount of triggers.  after test more seems to be working as intended

erollisi's hearseeker

group ae with natures focus is up

damage is decent but for the duration of the temp buff 15 sec(without focus/aa's) 20 sec with 12 procs per minute is not enough should be more like perfection of the maestro or COB being 100 % proc chance imho

 

 

 

Updated to match 10-24-12 patch

 

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:27 PM   #2
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Need to remember the right side (and most AE's) are balanced for 3 or more targets. Basically if you are mostly fighting 1 or 2 targets it will always do less DPS then the left side as it should.

I wouldn't worry about the positional requirement on Blazing Shot, I think that is going to be changed some how in the next pass.

The 9 times per minute is kind of decieving I think. When you look at the description of Blazing Weapons it says 45% chance. So almost half your hits will set it off, it parses very high for me (more than quick shot in some cases) and encourages you to not stack the buffs.

My main problem is 'crippling salvo' and 'wrapped in flames' and I believe this same issue comes up in other classes prestige lines. Having a debuff in one line and a selfish buff in the other is kind fo a big deal. They really have nothing to do with the 'single target' and 'ae' themes of the lines. Ideally I would like to see them work like the two other center abilities, 'free' of the lines. That or merged so 1 rank gets you 1 rank of both and on both lines. This if not replacing them outright.

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:35 PM   #3
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idk still seems hella low but i did just hit 95 well see how it pans out over the next few days

also

erollisi's hearseeker

group ae with natures focus is up

damage is decent but for the duration of the temp buff 15 sec(without focus/aa's) 20 sec with 12 procs per minute is not enough should be more like perfection of the maestro or COB being 100 % proc chance imho 

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:39 PM   #4
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in regards to erollisi's hearseeker I agree. Should be more like stampede, POTM or COB with a 100% proc rate given its short duration. I don't expect it to perform as well though, being we aren't a utility/support class.

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Old 10-23-2012, 09:19 PM   #5
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The current prestige abilities do not address the desirability of a ranger for a group or a raid.  The current prestige abilities add to our T1 dps and do nothing more.  This will be more of the same in the coming expansion as far as a ranger's desirability.

We need a significant ability that a group or raid would deem desirable when considering other classes when forming.  Currently, we're on par with other T1 dps classes, but with all else being equal those classes are chosen over a ranger because they bring more to the overall group or raid.

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Old 10-23-2012, 11:12 PM   #6
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Floyd3421 wrote:

The current prestige abilities do not address the desirability of a ranger for a group or a raid.  The current prestige abilities add to our T1 dps and do nothing more.  This will be more of the same in the coming expansion as far as a ranger's desirability.

We need a significant ability that a group or raid would deem desirable when considering other classes when forming.  Currently, we're on par with other T1 dps classes, but with all else being equal those classes are chosen over a ranger because they bring more to the overall group or raid.

The current prestige lines MAINTAIN our T1 DPS. If any of it was replaced with utility we would drop in DPS for marginal utility becoming both poor DPS and utility.

The way I describe it as of late everyone has been generally raised in equal amounts. Unfortunately when we have a gap and everyone gets raised the same amount, that gap remains.

What we need is something added ON TOP of everything else that increases our desirability without any other classes getting a similar boost. Personally i have been leaning towards a debuff: one that either increase hit rate against that target significantly to the point players can see a definite benefit, or one that increases all incoming damage to the target by a set percent.

I suggest a target debuff because such a thing is inherently 'raid wide' - the thing that 24 people are helping to kill is being debuffed thus helping the entire raid. Group buffs will always fall short in a raid scenario unless they are of bard/support class quality and a raid wide buff just seems ridiculous for a T1 DPS class.

There needs to be a ranger exclusive boost in utility.

But this is mostly off topic. From what I can tell so far when comparing prestige abilities across classes they seem equal. Although I am holding my breath a bit for the next wave of changes Xelgad has planned.

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Old 10-24-2012, 12:29 AM   #7
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Neiloch I agree with most of what you've said and agree with you that the current ranger prestige abilities help us remain on par as T1 dps and do not put us above any classes on a dps basis.

You made 2 great points which are at the heart of what I was trying say:

"What we need is something added ON TOP of everything else that increases our desirability without any other classes getting a similar boost."

"There needs to be a ranger exclusive boost in utility."

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Old 10-24-2012, 02:23 AM   #8
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It also seems neither end line (perfect salvo or extra pitch) is working.

Correct me if i'm wrong but these both are supposed to apply 2 increments so i would assume to see 8 hits from a rapid fire enhanced salvo and 2 hits/dots of flaming weapons.

The Blazing shot side has potential but too many things seems off with it on top of the above issue with Extra pitch

I can live with with the trigger limitations but they seem to be all over the place (only rear multi-hit attacks) which would be the "dexterous attacks" set of 5 (sneak attack, ranger's blade, emberstrike, rear shot and sniper shot) but also includes other multi-hit attacks (so does this storm of arrows, stream of arrows and natural selection as well via the Arrow rain ability if we are behind as well.  Does it really need that kind of limitation? i'd be fine if it were just sneak attack and whatever sneak or rear required CA tbh. make it 4 triggers and pump each up 25% to eat the lost 5th trigger.

But it's not over yet with Constant burning, I would assume, should run multiple dots (1 for each increment) but the dot rate seems slow at 3 secs.  Especially if you can overwrite them in under 9 secs.  I will have to test that one again but in my early tests I could only get what seemed to be 2 dots going (i.e. no instance of me registering more than 3 hits in a given 3 sec span) and that the other incremnts if triggered was overwriting the Dot.  I would have loved to have seen Extra Pitch forcing doubled dots as well. 

Currently Extra Pitch does nothing except maybe increase increments (and hard to judge if those extra increments are working as intended cuz i can't even clearly tell if the DoT is working.  Constant Burning, if it is working correctly, could use the Extra Pitch working. 

Again hard to make the judgment without a working Extra Pitch prestige and I may have flubbed some of my early tests not fully aware of the triggering requirement.

As for the Salvo (AE) side

It may or may not be intentional but they get alot more bang for the buck outta the 2 neutral prestiges Erollisi's Heartseeker and Blazing Weapons.  The only issue on this side being the Non functional double increment trigger of Perfect Salvo.

I think the salvo side is pretty decent otherwise my other concern is this spec in a reallly large group fights (max targets (with some to spare) Blazing Weapons I have had out damage Rapid Salvo and Repeating Salvo combined which to me doesn't seem right that a 3 point prestige ability can outclass a 10 point prestige ability against something it was inteneded to be effective against.  Maybe tweeking Empowered Salvo to work all of the Rapid Fire extra hits instead of just the initial         

I also agree Erollosi Heartseeker is a little disappointing and not something that really adds alot to our desirability.  A damage proc can be harmful in some encounters (Eudoxxus) I'd much rather have seen Combat Mastery like effect. 

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Old 10-24-2012, 03:05 AM   #9
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These are the changes for tomorrow's update notes:

Ranger

Blazing Shot no longer has a positional requirement and instead follows minimum range restrictions.

Wrapped in Flames is now 4% per rank but applies increments to each member of the group instead of just the ranger. Each member will maintain their own version.

Rapid Salvo is now a 1 second cast time.

Extra Pitch has been moved to where Superheated Shot was. Rank 1 and 2 give +1 to the max increments each and rank 3 gives +1 increments gained per use.

Burning Intensity has replaced Extra Pitch as the endline. Whenever the ranger uses multi-hit combat arts or those modified by Dexterous Attacks, they will gain increments of Burning Intensity. When they reach 12 increments, Burning Intensity will be removed and the ranger will gain Flaming Assault for 20 seconds. Flaming Assault increases the ranger's potency by 12.5% of their base potency. Example: A ranger with 300 potency and Flaming Assault will have their potency increased to 337.5.

Perfect Salvo is now Arrow Salvo and reduces the base casting speed of Stream of Arrows to 1 second and the base reuse speed to 60 seconds.

 

I'm waiting a bit to test more before weighing in.

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:19 AM   #10
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Removing the positional requirement was actually really nice and necessary imo. (also not to entirely side track or take away from anything, but why are we the ONLY class in the game that is penalized with a minimun AND max range penalty? Every other class has the max range penalty, but none have a minimum. Also bringing this up because of horrible hit box issues that we constantly have to be concerned about....nothing sucks more then loosing half your Combat arts when being too close to a mob while no one else has to worry about that....also defeats the purpose of beng a *ranger* or ranged if we have to constantly be in a 5m range to have access to all our abilities....I've found myself standing next to assassins when fighing npc(s) for five plus years now)

I like where they're going with the right side but it still needs more work for us to even want a chance at entertaining the idea of choosing it. As is most rangers are still going to be specing the left side for a Raid and just overall general DPS setting.

Arrow Salvo should definitely be modified by Killing Spree. Also remove the cone effect from Arrow Salvo and just make it a blanket AOE like the rest of our aoe(s) tbh. Also might want to consider adding some type of similar Crit Bonus proc to the right side like you did with the Potency proc to the left side. As is rangers need allot more Crit Bonus as compared to our counter part(s) (assassin's /  Beastlords) to just attempt to keep up with them, but never really keeping up anyways.

Agree with Uncle on the middle line having its proc chance upped to 6/12/18 and as mentioned Focus Aim is only up at max for 20 seconds. Again agree with Uncle that it really should be more like perfection of the maestro or COB being 100% proc chance.

Keep up the good work guys as it is appreciated but please consider that rangers for A LONG TIME now have really been needing an overhaul / help. Also as well please give credance to what Tywxx, Neiloch, Uncle, and Error have to say for input (as well as myself to a lesser extent ) They either 1) Have been playing this class for sometime now and understand it or 2) Have been playing it at the highest level and understand the nuances / lacks we have as compared to other classes.

Respectfully,

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:45 AM   #11
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There are only raid AA?

what about protection or tools? a Ranger is not an Archer

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Old 10-24-2012, 04:41 PM   #12
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You guys should/need to start another thread on giving rangers something to make them wanted. That way it'll be easier for the DEV to see.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:43 PM   #13
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Okay, tested the left side on a run thru the Wurmbone's End heroic place. Group was troub, coe, fury, bruiser, assassin, ranger. Here's the spec I ran:

And a merged parse for all the nameds:

Flaming weapons parsed 14.6k. Blazing shot 20.3k. Burning 18.7k. Wrapped in Flames is now a 12% group-wide dmg reduction with 3 increments. Each group member has their own increments on it. Pretty easy to keep it up the whole time on anyone but a tank it seems. Looks like a pretty nice utility if working as listed...kinda hard to test dmg reduction. But "wrapped in flames" is up in maintained window to see it. I had 277 base potency solo. So Flaming Assualt endline would give 36.5 pot before any group buffs. Don't think it modifies potency procs, but group pot buffs should help it. Flaming assault goes up quickly and basically stays up. Everytime you're hitting that 12 incremental it resets to 20 seconds. I don't know exactly what ca's count. Guessing the dextrous ones, exploit weakness, the arrow rain ones...not sure about stuff like triple shot or searing shot. Some other classes are talking about going for double conversion instead and ditching the bottom halves. I think there's enough there for us in the bottom left to go down the whole way. Middle Bubbles: Blazing Weaponry-- It parsed 26.1k. Seems about right. On a dummy it was doing about 23k. It is broken for Assassins though. They are proc'ing it a ton more and getting like 80-100k dps from it on a dummy. The proc rate on it for assassins needs to be fixed so it's even with us. Erollsi's Heartseeker--Seems about what I expected. Troub, 7k, ranger, 10k, coercer, 15k, fury, 4.5k, bruiser, 7.5k for 50.5k total to group. The assassin one I think hits harder, but they have more restrictions in that predators (including themselves) and rogues can't use. While I like this line and the playstyle of it, I don't think we got any closer to Beastlords or Assassins with this stuff. Assassin's got ANOTHER 4.5% hp debuffs. It's almost to the point where you HAVE to have an assassin in raid. Beastlord prestiges look to be at least as good as ours. So, while we have a little utility now and WOULD be more desirable in raids, relative to beastlords and assassins we're no more desirable than before. The issue we came in with hasn't changed.  I'm not going to selfishly play another xpac on a class that is clearly less useful to my raid than two other similar classes. Will test right side later.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:56 PM   #14
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Vifarc wrote:

There are only raid AA?

what about protection or tools? a Ranger is not an Archer

More archer than tanks or utility. this is DPS abilities and we are T1 DPS. Not sure why you would expect anything different.

Twyxx: Burning intensity is crazy bugged right now. there is a fix in but not until next patch. Its staying up way too easily and not adhering to needing 12 increments before it goes off.

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Old 10-24-2012, 05:57 PM   #15
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[email protected] wrote:

You guys should/need to start another thread on giving rangers something to make them wanted. That way it'll be easier for the DEV to see.

Can make another one, but the last one from about a month ago is still in the ranger forum.

I honestly don't know what you do to fix desirability other than stop giving beastlords and assassins more stuff so we can actually catch up to them. That would just upset  those two classes though and there are more of them raiding already so it's easier to just keep rangers as the under-represented class cause there are less of them and they're used to it by now.

Not a desirability thing, but two easy fixes for the class are:

1. Fixing the cast time on hidden shot/hidden assault.  The cast time of it in addition to stealth req and since it doesn't double with dextrous makes it one of the least efficient ca's we have. Cut the cast time in half and it's a reasonable ca.

2. Improving Double Arrow on ranger tree as it's stupidly outdated.  Yes, most classes have one item that isn't useful, but with hook arrow having near zero use in raids we have two useless ones.

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Old 10-24-2012, 06:02 PM   #16
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[email protected] wrote:

Twyxx: Burning intensity is crazy bugged right now. there is a fix in but not until next patch. Its staying up way too easily and not adhering to needing 12 increments before it goes off.

Yeah, that makes sense.  Honestly the wording of everything hurts my brain a little so wasn't sure if it was supposed to reset the timer that often or not.

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Old 10-24-2012, 06:15 PM   #17
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Twyxx wrote:

I honestly don't know what you do to fix desirability other than stop giving beastlords and assassins more stuff so we can actually catch up to them. That would just upset  those two classes though and there are more of them raiding already so it's easier to just keep rangers as the under-represented class cause there are less of them and they're used to it by now.

They need to either revamp a sub-par core ability or add a new one entirely. this while not adding anything new to other classes to effectively close the gap that just keeps getting shifted when thing are added to everyone. 'Double Arrow' is also a good candidate for replacement.

I suggest a debuff that increases incoming damage to a target by a set percent e.g. 'All incoming damage is increased by x%' is applied to the target. While something like that may seem big, if you 'parsed' HP debuffs as if it was being taken away by damage, it would be HUGE.

Or some other debuff, but I think it should be a debuff. Group buffs are just that, group buffs, not raid buffs. And a raid buff would seem out of place on a high DPS class imo. Debuffs are inherently group/raid wide because it benefits everyone who is taking part in killing that target.

But again all this is off topic and I may just bump one of our other threads with this as well but..../shrug

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Old 10-24-2012, 08:39 PM   #18
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Errrorr pointed out that I only had 1 point in Blazing Weaponry.  So, that's likely the proc diff between what I was using and the assassin.  Trying it out now on right side with 3 points in BW. 

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Old 10-24-2012, 10:31 PM   #19
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Ran some of the Altar x4 spec'd right side. Only had half a group to work with so hard to compare a buffless right side vs normal left side earlier. Here's spec:

And parse for 4 nameds merged:

Most those were single target mobs tho so hard to really test ae side. Here's one 30sec trash parse where there was some ae:

I really don't see much value in the right side at this point. Maybe there's a whole zone packed with aoe fights where adds stay up a while, but otherwise you're giving up far too much on the left side now. Burning Weaponry with 3 points in it looks fine. Since it's tied to temps that aren't up all the time it parses reasonably, but not overpowered. Update notes show this coming tonight: Ranger Burning Intensity now increments properly. So, the potency proc isn't intended to be up all the time apparently. We'll see what it turns into.

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Old 10-25-2012, 04:40 AM   #20
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Burning intensity

- Bugged when you get this to trigger it does two thing it gives you burning intensity which does nothing but count down from one min and refreshes if you hit an ability that triggers it . when you let it drop it lets you get the potency and it triggers on every ability you cast that triggers it. def needs fixed. Fixed as of 10/24 patch though looking over some rough numbers the added pot for the time it gonna take to get to 12 triggers seems lil low

QFE

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Old 10-25-2012, 05:21 AM   #21
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[email protected] wrote:

Vifarc wrote:

There are only raid AA?

what about protection or tools? a Ranger is not an Archer

More archer than tanks or utility. this is DPS abilities and we are T1 DPS. Not sure why you would expect anything different.

I expect being a Ranger: a Ranger is not who can kill the most from afar, it is who can go the farther by his own means.

Ok we are needed as archers in raids, but the game is not only that.

See my AAs: http://beetny.com/eq2aa/#GU63;gt250...1t30a080a0aa001

I'm the sole Ranger-tank of Norrath! I love running fast, being stealthy, tanking for my group (I even help tanking in a raid, to give time rezzing the MT), and make AOEs with my bow. So, I'm the anti-raid Ranger lol!

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Old 10-25-2012, 04:59 PM   #22
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Lethlian wrote:

Burning intensity

- Bugged when you get this to trigger it does two thing it gives you burning intensity which does nothing but count down from one min and refreshes if you hit an ability that triggers it . when you let it drop it lets you get the potency and it triggers on every ability you cast that triggers it. def needs fixed. Fixed as of 10/24 patch though looking over some rough numbers the added pot for the time it gonna take to get to 12 triggers seems lil low

QFE

I can keep it up about half the time if not a little more depending on rear shot and sniper shot being up. It's 20 seconds up and about 15-20 seconds down. Of course this is in a controlled, constant fighting environment so I expect it will be down for quite a bit more than that during actual adventuring.

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Old 10-25-2012, 06:33 PM   #23
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Vifarc stated:

I'm the sole Ranger-tank of Norrath! I love running fast, being stealthy, tanking for my group (I even help tanking in a raid, to give time rezzing the MT), and make AOEs with my bow. So, I'm the anti-raid Ranger lol!

Lethlian states:

I guess to each thier own.... But honestly its post(s) like that, that make me /facepalm

And tbh I can't tell if serious or troll.

1) I have no idea what raid mobs your tanking, but I can assure you I couldn't in my wildest dreams tank ANY of the mobs my guild pulls for raids. I would end up at best a one shot ward, before said RAID MOB would go off to one shot some other class before the tank got agro again.

2) We don't run faster then anyone else is capable of in game now thanks to various pots, charms, totems, mounts, whatnot.

3) When peeps post stuff like this up in the official forums and the Devs see it, this makes me qq because its post like this that are the reason why rangers have not only been thrown under the bus, but have allowed the bus to stay parked ontop of us.

I don't necessarily know about everyone else who even still plays a ranger that much presently, but I can tell you OUR class(es) days have been long gone since the days of EoK and RoK. Those were the days to be a ranger, back when Miracle shot could hit ANY mob ANYWHERE in a zone if on target regardless of walls/distance/line of sight. Back when there was no MINIMUM range for our ranged melee auto attack OR combat arts. Back when the INT line was a valid choice and poisons meant a dang, basically back when people used to play rangers and they had worth to groups and raids AND also when people used to play them for fun as well.

(it still really irritates me that out of the 25 present day classes we can play WERE THE ONLY CLASS with a minimum range penalty)

But now compared to any and all other classes, let alone from all the other present day scout classes, we offer up nothing of worth to anything. We have zero utility, our dps is easily matched or on most occassions (i.e 90% of the time) out done by other T1 and even T2 classes. Were the most expensive class for overall up keep to maintain and oh btw WERE THE ONLY CLASS the has to pay plats/in game currency for us to DPS.(Sometimes I honestly wonder if I"m a closet masochists for continuing to play a ranger, because the class hasn't been fun for a long time now.)

Finally the only time you will see a ranger spec'ing the left side is when they go to PVP/BG(s) so that tells you how much rangers think of how useful that line is. (and in case you din't get the hint, its worthless in PVE)

Anyways glad to have gotten that stone off my chest. (somehow I don't think this post of mine will be up long, when posted)

Respectfully,

Lethlian

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Old 10-25-2012, 07:30 PM   #24
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Lethlian wrote:

Finally the only time you will see a ranger spec'ing the left side is when they go to PVP/BG(s)

And by left he means right.

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Old 10-25-2012, 07:40 PM   #25
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Twyxx wrote:

Lethlian wrote:

Finally the only time you will see a ranger spec'ing the left side is when they go to PVP/BG(s)

And by left he means right.

Lm*o good catch. (wow really soe, I can't use l m a o, thats weak sauce)

Yeah I was totally being mad / jelly when I posted. ;p

Annnnd speaking of which the last point that I forgot to mention and  should of been made in my above post was.

How worthless is Double arrow and hook arrow (in pve at least)...like in all seriousness. At least my brigand and shadow knight actually have in game worth for 3 out of the 4. We don't even get that. Wow 8% multi attack and drag some npc to me, so it can one shot me!  yeah.....

Now I'm officially done being mad/jelly.

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Old 10-26-2012, 04:18 AM   #26
Twyxx

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Did some testing on dummies and it's close between left side and double conversion.  Right side I don't see as useful at all unless possibly on a progression fight with tough dps check on adds.

On single target/no add fights left side is likely slightly better.  On add fights double conversion is likely slightly better.

Exploit Weakness and the Arrow Rain modified ca's (nat sel, arrow barrage, storm/stream) do not add increments for Burning Intensity...not sure if intended.

Even when going left side we're only going to take 1 point in Wrapped in Flames without sacrificing dps.  So, effective utility add is Erollsi's Heartseeker and a 4% group dmg reduction. Other t1s get more utility (stoneskins, hp debuffs, transfer, etc) than us and don't have to give up dps for it.

What I really want to know from the devs is why they think we are balanced vs Beastlords and Assassins.  Beastlords have greater dps, greater group buffs and flexibility to go spiritual.  Assassins now have 12.5% hp debuffs in addition to about 10% of raid dps, making them crucial as they kill almost a quarter of the mob on their own in addition to transfer.  They do as much or more dps than rangers.

What do we have that they don't?  We have a temp accuracy buff.  If we want to play a ranger in a raid we are asking our raid to sacrifice all the extra benefits of those two classes to accomodate us.

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Old 10-26-2012, 05:01 AM   #27
Neiloch

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Twyxx wrote:

What I really want to know from the devs is why they think we are balanced vs Beastlords and Assassins.  Beastlords have greater dps, greater group buffs and flexibility to go spiritual.  Assassins now have 12.5% hp debuffs in addition to about 10% of raid dps, making them crucial as they kill almost a quarter of the mob on their own in addition to transfer.  They do as much or more dps than rangers.

What do we have that they don't?  We have a temp accuracy buff.  If we want to play a ranger in a raid we are asking our raid to sacrifice all the extra benefits of those two classes to accomodate us.

I would love to know this as well.

I know for a fact at least some MMO's use a 'scoring' or point system to balance abilities. Similar to what you might see on WoW gear scores. These values are man made of course. I think some where along the line someone mistakenly 'scored' our ranged ability MUCH too high, the abilities came out 'too expensive' and had to be lowered in value by cast time, reuse and not castable on the move and even damage. Basically piling on layer after layer of drawbacks, more than any other abilities in the game. I'm guessing this budget also increases the 'cost' of rangers as a class, thus we can't get any significant utility because we would then come up as 'too expensive'

If this is the case what ever 'weight' they attribute to 'melee ranged attacks' needs to be severely lowered. As you can see it is quite evident they just aren't that valuable by the lack of demand to play with rangers and lack of desire to play rangers. If this is the case, their score system has been proven thoroughly wrong by the player population, and I challenge any dev to prove otherwise.

I am willing to give some thanks for them picking away at these drawbacks little by little over nearly the entire lifespan of the game. Unfortunately at this rate by the time rangers are on par with other classes people will be pre-ordering the first EQNext expansion.

So I'd love an answer to this but I get the feeling the answer given would be met with hysterical laughs of disbelief and shock. eg 'AHHHH HAHAHA heh...are you serious?!'

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Old 10-26-2012, 05:18 AM   #28
Lethlian

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Twyxx wrote:

Did some testing on dummies and it's close between left side and double conversion.  Right side I don't see as useful at all unless possibly on a progression fight with tough dps check on adds.

On single target/no add fights left side is likely slightly better.  On add fights double conversion is likely slightly better.

Exploit Weakness and the Arrow Rain modified ca's (nat sel, arrow barrage, storm/stream) do not add increments for Burning Intensity...not sure if intended.

Even when going left side we're only going to take 1 point in Wrapped in Flames without sacrificing dps.  So, effective utility add is Erollsi's Heartseeker and a 4% group dmg reduction. Other t1s get more utility (stoneskins, hp debuffs, transfer, etc) than us and don't have to give up dps for it.

What I really want to know from the devs is why they think we are balanced vs Beastlords and Assassins.  Beastlords have greater dps, greater group buffs and flexibility to go spiritual.  Assassins now have 12.5% hp debuffs in addition to about 10% of raid dps, making them crucial as they kill almost a quarter of the mob on their own in addition to transfer.  They do as much or more dps than rangers.

What do we have that they don't?  We have a temp accuracy buff.  If we want to play a ranger in a raid we are asking our raid to sacrifice all the extra benefits of those two classes to accomodate us.

OFE times the power of 3.16^

Honestly (and please understand I'm not trying to be mean or rude...but I'm finally getting fed up) Hello!!!!!????? Developers? anyone?! How can you honestly look at rangers and think they actually have purpose in this game?! since which last expansion before our continous downfall as a class especially as it is now since RoK (which was what like seriously 5 years ago?) has our class been of any worth to the group/raid/game! ffs not even half  HALF! of our CA(s) are ranged! ontop of all the other mess that I, twyxx, uncle, neiloch, error or other by gone players that played our class before that  have either 1)left the game or 2) have moved on to play a different class because their tired of being squashed down into the ground with rangers being last place to everything and virtually a joke.

Seriously take a look at all the post just in this CoE beta about rangers! no one else is even close to reaching our level of pleas for addresses to fix a specific class. Heck don't stop there in this little CoE beta forum regarding rangers, but look at all the TS in just the regular forums that have varied from AMMO CONSUMPTION (and all the problems it entows for rangers) to people making posts like DO PLAYERS ACTUALLY USE RANGERS FOR RAID ANYMORE? to a mulitude of other various THREADS just about rangers in like the past flipping month.

look here closesly....OUR CLASS (rangers that is) IS BROKEN, We've been broken and no one is doing anything about it REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH PROOF IN GAME PLAYERS CONSTANTLY POST on the FORUMS.

You want to know what if feels like to have MOD SOE -2 or MOD SOE -4 come and wipe out complete TS(s) and POST(s) feel like?! FOR THE PAST flipping year if not more.

LET ME TELL YOU IT DOESN"T FEEL GREAT MAN!

You know what the sad thing about all this is ( I have hope ). That maybe, just maybe a developer will actually see this post and not only this post of mine, but hopefully everyone else's post(s) who have been very dilligently/insightfully/anguishingly posting feedback in hope of a positive response from you, the developer.

but nah somehow I guess this one is going to get SOE MOD'ed -2 into the ground and my account is going to get a temp ban instead and when that happens you can kiss my money and subscription good bye.

Respectfully, earnestly, hopefully,

Lethlian 92 ranger.

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Old 10-26-2012, 05:39 AM   #29
Landiin

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This issue is why they don't fix the ranger class IMO is; Most people who play a ranger (and raid a ranger) are decent to good players but the ranger class is pushed into lower quality guilds because there isn't room for them in quality guilds. So the people are forced to play with bad players, thus they out perform other t1 classes making the ranger look ok. I can just imagine how it looks on their spreadsheets. Sadly I don't think they account for the quality of players these rangers are playing with they make the ranger look appealing in the spreadsheet.
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Old 10-26-2012, 10:18 AM   #30
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[email protected] wrote:

'Double Arrow' is also a good candidate for replacement.

I would vote for 10-15% flurry and just name it Arrow Flurry. Or something unique like 10% AE Multi Attack

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