EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > General EverQuest II Discussion > Spells, Abilities, and General Class Discussion
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-26-2012, 12:59 PM   #1
jjlo69

Loremaster
jjlo69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Default

looking around on various sites i came across this parse where a pali tanking in reckless stance in heroic content..

can anyone tell me what is wrong with this picture.

jjlo69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 01:09 PM   #2
Lemilla
Server: Permafrost
Guild: Issari Laoris
Rank: Cute 'n Blue

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 323
Default

Apart from being a 7-second AoE trash parse from players that are overgeared for the content? Of course you get ridiculous results when doing that.

Lemilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 01:12 PM   #3
Geothe

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,098
Default

Use of bad data is bad. heh.Show a set of named parses and then we can talk.

__________________
Smed: We aren't going to be allowing RMT in any way, shape or form on the non-exchange enabled EQ II servers. Period. End of statement.

Smed: 5) This [LoN] is not some slippery slope towards selling items directly in EQ & EQ II.

Lie #3: Station Cash. Enough Said.

Geothe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 01:17 PM   #4
Mermut

Loremaster
Mermut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 852
Default

Last night on an EM UD raid, our MT was reckless stance for most of the trash... and ended up parsing 258k zone-wide, only our assassin out parsed the MT zone-wide.

__________________
I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, But not hang it by the neck until dead.
Mermut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 01:24 PM   #5
Haciv

Loremaster
Haciv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 278
Default

Tanks are OP now and everyone knows it.  There's no point to playing anything but a tank atm.

__________________
Haciv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 01:34 PM   #6
Boli32

Loremaster
Boli32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,425
Default

The results are completly inflated; tanks in general are often better geared than their raid/group and have a wide collection of spike agro (damage) abilities aimed at grabbing agro FAST.

before patch I could easily be top of the parse - and if the fight ended in under 10s I could aim at 1st or second depending who was in my group. I can just offload all my spike damage and since the tank is in combat before everyone else ACT will show the tank with a much higher parse. If you had the assasin do all the pulling and have them offload all their AoEs before the mobs came within range and THEN the tank grabbed agro the result will be reversed.

I will admit that the damge increase is higher than I expected but at the same time the damge incoming is a LOT higher as well... AoEs are one-shots unless you use a save.. that is *every* AoE.

The issue is not the tank's new stance.. is that we can use it as against trash herioc or easy named there is a *lot* of overhealing in general Healer Healers can do 10k hps for example... wityhout recklessness the tank will take 4k DPS, with it 8k DPS... that still means they survive.

That said tanks have spent the better part of 2 years being told "they are not DPS"... having "real" and even healers regually outparse them and they shoudl just "concemntrate on the tanking".

well tbh an increase in tank DPS is needed... if only to put the fun bakc in the game for trash and easy named - they still need to use the defe stance (now DEFINATLY the defensive stance due to the 5% DR on it) for where it counts.... why begrudge the tanks some fun?... half of the game seems to revolve aroudn makign a tank's life a living hell.. and that doesn't include the constant pestering from half of their guild to tank every zone in a row without a break whilst they are half on auto-follow.

Boli32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 01:39 PM   #7
Neobe

Loremaster
Neobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Default

I find it hard to believe ur tank was in Reck stance for the trash, b/c when i was using reck last night if i didnt play like a scout i would get one shotted. 50% more dmg taken really hurts. The parse post why not show a fight when ppl werent already getting over mil dps. Im not saying the reck isnt broken, i parse 340k zw last night in Selvalak Awkened that was about a 100k increase in my dps in there from before the update. But this isnt for good players this is so the crappy players can try and find a place in a raid or a group.

Neobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 01:59 PM   #8
Kunaak

Loremaster
Kunaak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,081
Default

if you start thinking a tank is a DPS class, cause of this post....

Kunaak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 02:05 PM   #9
Kunaak

Loremaster
Kunaak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,081
Default

[email protected] wrote:

looking around on various sites i came across this parse where a pali tanking in reckless stance in heroic content..

can anyone tell me what is wrong with this picture.

sure, you have elemental toxicity, Time Warp, that beast lord temp buff, heritics, and invective - a tank in reckless stance,  a AE tank with no other real AE classes in group, and a bunch of well timed buffs, on a 7 zecond trash parse in a heroic zone with a linked encounter of roughly 50 adds that die if you blink - and your trying to imply this is a normal parse for a tank in reckless stance.

Kunaak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 02:16 PM   #10
jjlo69

Loremaster
jjlo69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Default

Kunaak wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

looking around on various sites i came across this parse where a pali tanking in reckless stance in heroic content..

can anyone tell me what is wrong with this picture.

sure, you have elemental toxicity, Time Warp, that beast lord temp buff, heritics, and invective - a tank in reckless stance,  a AE tank with no other real AE classes in group, and a bunch of well timed buffs, on a 7 zecond trash parse in a heroic zone with a linked encounter of roughly 50 adds that die if you blink - and your trying to imply this is a normal parse for a tank in reckless stance.

hmm your right looks like temps was maybe 20%  but as i stated at the top this was just heroic content.. so tanking in reckless is def possible as you can see here.. as i start to see / get other parses ill post them as well

jjlo69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 02:17 PM   #11
Koleg
Server: Unrest_old

Lord
Koleg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 713
Default

Kunaak wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

looking around on various sites i came across this parse where a pali tanking in reckless stance in heroic content..

can anyone tell me what is wrong with this picture.

sure, you have elemental toxicity, Time Warp, that beast lord temp buff, heritics, and invective - a tank in reckless stance,  a AE tank with no other real AE classes in group, and a bunch of well timed buffs, on a 7 zecond trash parse in a heroic zone with a linked encounter of roughly 50 adds that die if you blink - and your trying to imply this is a normal parse for a tank in reckless stance.

Don't be obtuse ... That group also killed Dozer in 3:42, which is slow compared to other people's parses I've seen.  Ant the Zone-In to Dozer pull was 17 minutes plus the 3:42 for Dozer making it 21 minutes from zone-In to boss kill.  You (all) can discount his 2.2mil trash parse all you like, but you cannot discount the fact that groups can clear UD in under 20 minutes ... AND THEN get mythicals for the "effort".

Koleg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 03:17 PM   #12
jjlo69

Loremaster
jjlo69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Default

here is another one that just poped up it was a lil longer 44 sec it was only 1.9 mil

jjlo69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 03:34 PM   #13
Neobe

Loremaster
Neobe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
Default

Once again you posted a parse on garbag, post a single target fight that last about 1min+.

Neobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 03:52 PM   #14
Lader

Loremaster
Lader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 591
Default

pow trash, guard sk and bruiser all in reckless. Guard didnt lose aggro except to the other tanks, they were doing 300-500k. Healing them was a joke.

__________________
-Thanatosis: 90 defiler of Oasis
Lader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 03:53 PM   #15
Mermut

Loremaster
Mermut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 852
Default

Neobe wrote:

Once again you posted a parse on garbag, post a single target fight that last about 1min+.

The point is that a tank shouldn't be ABLE to 'tank' in reckless stance. (ie hold aggro and not spike wildly.. as if a scout tried to 'tank' the same fight)

__________________
I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, But not hang it by the neck until dead.
Mermut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 04:01 PM   #16
Rageincarnate
Server: Unrest
Guild: Vindication
Rank: Officer

Loremaster
Rageincarnate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 396
Default

not to nit pick, but those abilities are sk abilities...

as in that's an sk parse, not a pally parse.   

And an sk should spike real high on an ae trash parse.  That's expected.

Rageincarnate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 04:08 PM   #17
japanfour

Loremaster
japanfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 119
Default

Hey look my parse! BTW that parse is on Underdepths trash, and even before the recklessness stance I can top the parse on those encounters because I know when to use what for them. Its just gonna be more obvious on multi encounters because of the  amount of encounter and AOE DPS a paladin is capable of.

most dps classes that know what they are doing will still out parse tanks where it counts. I guess you will have to accept that fighters are the dps kings when it comes to adds and trash now. is it a big deal? no. does it help? yes, i think it helps with timesinks( killing trash fast is always good)

.I think the only thing this is going to break is well geared tanks in EM zones if they know how to work it and know the encounter. I actually wish they would improve the stance a bit by making tanks able to go in and out of it during tanking ( Ideally i would like to be able to switch to my defensive stance for add sets on fights and resume my dps stance if possible)

__________________


japanfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 04:21 PM   #18
jjlo69

Loremaster
jjlo69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Default

this stance should have never made it to live as is trash or not you shouldnt be tanking in that stance and doing 1.9~2.2 mil period.. the potency needs tuned down to about 25~40% extra at most with the 50 extra

jjlo69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 04:33 PM   #19
Rasttan
Server: Unrest

Loremaster
Rasttan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 160
Default

[email protected] wrote:

this stance should have never made it to live as is trash or not you shouldnt be tanking in that stance and doing 1.9~2.2 mil period.. the potency needs tuned down to about 25~40% extra at most with the 50 extra

Statflation is everywhere, raids are doing 9-10 million dps why are you surprised on some worthless group of trash that no one should care about, or post about on a group of 20-30 mobs that die in 5-30 seconds what anyone parses.

DPS classes are hitting 1 million dps on HM named and PoW named thats what matters

Rasttan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 04:37 PM   #20
jjlo69

Loremaster
jjlo69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Default

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

this stance should have never made it to live as is trash or not you shouldnt be tanking in that stance and doing 1.9~2.2 mil period.. the potency needs tuned down to about 25~40% extra at most with the 50 extra

Statflation is everywhere, raids are doing 9-10 million dps why are you surprised on some worthless group of trash that no one should care about, or post about on a group of 20-30 mobs that die in 5-30 seconds what anyone parses.

DPS classes are hitting 1 million dps on HM named and PoW named thats what matters

you right your guilds dps is which is great.. i wonder how your parsing in reckless on raids humor us and post one

jjlo69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 04:52 PM   #21
Freejazzlive

Loremaster
Freejazzlive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends
Posts: 704
Default

[email protected] wrote:

Statflation is everywhere, raids are doing 9-10 million dps why are you surprised on some worthless group of trash that no one should care about, or post about on a group of 20-30 mobs that die in 5-30 seconds what anyone parses.

DPS classes are hitting 1 million dps on HM named and PoW named thats what matters

That's a very nice outline of the entire problem facing this game.

__________________
Talechaser Tuckpaw, Troubadour of Freeport

Golgi Apparati, Swashbuckler of Freeport

Aheedi Adaephon, Warlock of Freeport
Freejazzlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 05:05 PM   #22
japanfour

Loremaster
japanfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 119
Default

[email protected] wrote:

this stance should have never made it to live as is trash or not you shouldnt be tanking in that stance and doing 1.9~2.2 mil period.. the potency needs tuned down to about 25~40% extra at most with the 50 extra

I can think of a million things in this game that arent balanced in terms of my ideals, alas this isnt my game to design. I can say this however. Paladins are due for something that gives them more viability. Paladin has been one of the lowest parsing tanks for a long while. I think you are complaining because of numbers, and not really understanding what this stance can give your raids or your groups with someone handling it properly. I still get ripped up on single target dps, and I do VERY well on multi target encounters, and i believe thats rightful for my class in my opinion.

And like I said before, I can top the parse on those drakes out of stance in defensive, as long as a warlock isnt in the group. The post was more of a joke than anything. I honestly cant belive the scrutiny its getting.

__________________


japanfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 05:12 PM   #23
jjlo69

Loremaster
jjlo69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 364
Default

it getting the attention it deserves..  

jjlo69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 05:21 PM   #24
japanfour

Loremaster
japanfour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 119
Default

Freejazzlive wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Statflation is everywhere, raids are doing 9-10 million dps why are you surprised on some worthless group of trash that no one should care about, or post about on a group of 20-30 mobs that die in 5-30 seconds what anyone parses.

DPS classes are hitting 1 million dps on HM named and PoW named thats what matters

That's a very nice outline of the entire problem facing this game.

stats are stats and if you are skilled you can know how to parse, the problem must be that people arent good at their class?

__________________


japanfour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 05:34 PM   #25
Freejazzlive

Loremaster
Freejazzlive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends
Posts: 704
Default

japanfour wrote:

Freejazzlive wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Statflation is everywhere, raids are doing 9-10 million dps why are you surprised on some worthless group of trash that no one should care about, or post about on a group of 20-30 mobs that die in 5-30 seconds what anyone parses.

DPS classes are hitting 1 million dps on HM named and PoW named thats what matters

That's a very nice outline of the entire problem facing this game.

stats are stats and if you are skilled you can know how to parse, the problem must be that people arent good at their class?

I wasn't talking about whether or not people know how to parse. However, I will concede that the overall problem of statflation doesn't really pertain to this thread, so my apologies for pointing out that statflation is bad.

__________________
Talechaser Tuckpaw, Troubadour of Freeport

Golgi Apparati, Swashbuckler of Freeport

Aheedi Adaephon, Warlock of Freeport
Freejazzlive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 08:09 PM   #26
Landiin

Loremaster
Landiin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,749
Default

Mermut wrote:

Neobe wrote:

Once again you posted a parse on garbag, post a single target fight that last about 1min+.

The point is that a tank shouldn't be ABLE to 'tank' in reckless stance. (ie hold aggro and not spike wildly.. as if a scout tried to 'tank' the same fight)

I agree 100%, these tanks keep trying to deflect the issue by saying it was trash. Lets see a mage tank it. Even if they could it still isn't quite fair as they don't have the option of becoming heavily armored with a press of a key.

__________________
Landiin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 08:44 PM   #27
Neiloch

Loremaster
Neiloch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 1,430
Default

[email protected] wrote:

A few select beastlords are sometimes hitting 1 million dps on HM named and PoW named thats what matters

Fixed it for ya.

All arguments as to the specific performance are moot.

Fighters can now easily fill two distinct roles in raids. No one else can do this. Fighters are able to do the job of two classes while some are having trouble doing one. THIS is the problem.

The very idea of only giving some classes the ability to do two roles is inherently broken and severely unbalanced.

Simply nerfing the stance wouldn't be enough to fix this since anything sufficient would nerf it to useless, so may as well get rid of it. They would either need to get rid of it outright, or assign secondary roles to ALL the other classes except beastlords since they already have one.

So until then, balance isn't just lopsided, it's unattainable.

__________________
Neiloch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 10:35 PM   #28
Davngr1

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,179
Default

nerf it..

 devs this is worst idea you have ever implemented..      i mean i can deal with a scout class being OP but screw a tank.

  give my dps classes as much potency or remove this stance.     

__________________
Davngr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 10:54 PM   #29
Vellisse
Server: Antonia Bayle

Loremaster
Vellisse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 389
Default

Take this stance out of the game.

It's not necessary for tanks be getting that kind of potency and DPS.

Either take the stance out completely, or give it to healers/mages/scouts.

What idiot thought of this?

__________________
Vellisse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012, 11:05 PM   #30
Davngr1

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,179
Default

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Take this stance out of the game.

It's not necessary for tanks be getting that kind of potency and DPS.

Either take the stance out completely, or give it to healers/mages/scouts.

What idiot thought of this?

QFE

 dev fail x 500000k

__________________
Davngr1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:00 AM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.