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Old 01-17-2012, 04:56 PM   #1
Illmarr

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And while you're at it, just combine them both into one reuse that affects every spell/combat art/taunt/song in the game. Ideas from a year ago can still be relevant if taken with a fresh perspective.

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Old 02-01-2012, 12:54 PM   #2
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+1

I'd love to see this changed.  Trying to keep the math straight on which abilitiy gets which aggregrate sum of reuse is more complicated than a MMORPG should be.

I should be able to clearly determine what my aggregrate is.  Removing these redundant stats and having just one reuse mechanic 'makes sense'.

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Old 02-01-2012, 05:10 PM   #3
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About the only reason I would be unhappy with this kind of change is for reforging--currently I can take an item that has ability reuse and reforge another stat on it to spell reuse and run into no issues.  If the two were merged into one stat, I would lose the ability to reforge to reuse if the item once had either already.  Of course I am a defiler so the two stats are basically the same thing (even the couple of CA's I gain through AA's appears to be affected by spell reuse).  For most other classes, I can completely understand why the two stats would be desireable to merge into one.

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Old 02-01-2012, 05:11 PM   #4
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[email protected] wrote:

About the only reason I would be unhappy with this kind of change is for reforging--currently I can take an item that has ability reuse and reforge another stat on it to spell reuse and run into no issues.  If the two were merged into one stat, I would lose the ability to reforge to reuse if the item once had either already.  Of course I am a defiler so the two stats are basically the same thing (even the couple of CA's I gain through AA's appears to be affected by spell reuse).  For most other classes, I can completely understand why the two stats would be desireable to merge into one.

Yes, but you have to admit, only cause of your class that you are in fact able to 'double dip' the current system.

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Old 02-01-2012, 06:44 PM   #5
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

About the only reason I would be unhappy with this kind of change is for reforging--currently I can take an item that has ability reuse and reforge another stat on it to spell reuse and run into no issues.  If the two were merged into one stat, I would lose the ability to reforge to reuse if the item once had either already.  Of course I am a defiler so the two stats are basically the same thing (even the couple of CA's I gain through AA's appears to be affected by spell reuse).  For most other classes, I can completely understand why the two stats would be desireable to merge into one.

Yes, but you have to admit, only cause of your class that you are in fact able to 'double dip' the current system.

Yeah, but if you think about it, my argument might work in favor of your argument.  What I'm doing is likely not intended (though I do like having shields with an abnormal amount of spell reuse attached), so merging both stats into one would be the best "fix" for that.

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Old 02-01-2012, 10:44 PM   #6
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+1

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Old 02-01-2012, 11:19 PM   #7
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+2

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Old 02-03-2012, 05:48 AM   #8
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That would be nice, CA reuse is terrible on battlepriest.

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Old 02-05-2012, 06:44 PM   #9
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-1 ... Abilities and Spells are (at least sometimes) vastly different, so I do see the need for having 2 different stats. I have around 30% ability reuse on my necro, and it only does anything for my call home/guild, and a few other abilities that I 'rarely' use. However my spell reuse is lacking (necro's seem to get the shaft on this stat).

Yes I can see the point that if the two were combined into one stat that it would then make all my spells have a quicker reuse, and would be easier to focus...but there has got to be some OP thing for some classes that having this would affect. I'm sorry but I just don't see a real need to combine these two stats into one...unless you purpousely want SOE to go and muck it up, and don't tell me they won't.

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Old 02-05-2012, 07:12 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

-1 ... Abilities and Spells are (at least sometimes) vastly different, so I do see the need for having 2 different stats. I have around 30% ability reuse on my necro, and it only does anything for my call home/guild, and a few other abilities that I 'rarely' use. However my spell reuse is lacking (necro's seem to get the shaft on this stat).

Ability reuse works on everything: spells, combat arts and other abilities. Spell reuse is ONLY spells.

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:30 PM   #11
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Mermut wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

-1 ... Abilities and Spells are (at least sometimes) vastly different, so I do see the need for having 2 different stats. I have around 30% ability reuse on my necro, and it only does anything for my call home/guild, and a few other abilities that I 'rarely' use. However my spell reuse is lacking (necro's seem to get the shaft on this stat).

Ability reuse works on everything: spells, combat arts and other abilities. Spell reuse is ONLY spells.

Have you actually calculated the effects of it though? AR on spells, does not equal what it does on Abilities. If i remove all of my 30% AR it barely changes my spells reuse (yes, it does affect it slightly), however 7% SRU has a larger impact then the 30 AR, something is horribly wrong with that and I want to try to prevent certain classes from suffering more than they already are in the present state.

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Old 02-06-2012, 07:24 AM   #12
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For years, Combat Art/Ability Reuse has been rare because of how powerful it is.

I remember the first items that had it. They were end-game items in Shard of Hate and Avatar charms.

Consolidation of this stat might not be a bad idea, but there's a reason it didn't just happen overnight.

I thought Spell Reuse was fairly abundant. It's not?

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:20 AM   #13
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feldon30 wrote:

For years, Combat Art/Ability Reuse has been rare because of how powerful it is.

I remember the first items that had it. They were end-game items in Shard of Hate and Avatar charms.

Consolidation of this stat might not be a bad idea, but there's a reason it didn't just happen overnight.

I thought Spell Reuse was fairly abundant. It's not?

Everything on your hotbar is an ability.  Everything.  Only things found in the "Spells" tab of your knowledge book are spells.

There is no reason in this era that we still have ANYTHING that marks a difference between the two.  The adorns are a whopping 1.5% re-use, with only a few available slots.  It's not even remotely overpowering.

Frankly, it's even MORE ridiculous that you can only Reforge for SPELL re-use.

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:58 AM   #14
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The big issue with this is melee classes already have a lot of amazing ways to improve DPS -

melee gets: dps, haste, MA, flurry, pot, crit bonus, cast speed, reuse (non-spell) speed, and recovery

casters get: pot, crit bonus, cast speed, reuse (ability and spell), recovery

Additionally, the only two of those that come in larger quantities to casters are cast speed and reuse speed.  Many end-game casters have already hit the caps for at least one of those stats.   Overcap conversions for cast/reuse/recovery are so worthless they are not worth considering until it's your last option, and the gains are extremely marginal.

Spell weapon MA/dps come in such small quantities they aren't worth mentioning - even buffed spell weapon dps will have a hard time hitting 1k dps, compared to the 5-6 digit dps we see from melee class autoattack.

The only reason melee dps isn't way above caster DPS at the moment is that most caster classes are lucky enough to get AA to improve dps significantly in the latest expansion.  Some that SOE doesn't remember are casters (furies come to mind) do not.

Basically melee dps already gets a lot more ways to improve dps, and giving them the marginal increase to ability reuse would be even more over the top, especially with reforging.

I have 2 melee classes and 1 caster at 90, for reference.

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Old 02-06-2012, 01:46 PM   #15
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[email protected]_old wrote:

The big issue with this is melee classes already have a lot of amazing ways to improve DPS -

melee gets: dps, haste, MA, flurry, pot, crit bonus, cast speed, reuse (non-spell) speed, and recovery

casters get: pot, crit bonus, cast speed, reuse (ability and spell), recovery

Additionally, the only two of those that come in larger quantities to casters are cast speed and reuse speed.  Many end-game casters have already hit the caps for at least one of those stats.   Overcap conversions for cast/reuse/recovery are so worthless they are not worth considering until it's your last option, and the gains are extremely marginal.

Spell weapon MA/dps come in such small quantities they aren't worth mentioning - even buffed spell weapon dps will have a hard time hitting 1k dps, compared to the 5-6 digit dps we see from melee class autoattack.

The only reason melee dps isn't way above caster DPS at the moment is that most caster classes are lucky enough to get AA to improve dps significantly in the latest expansion.  Some that SOE doesn't remember are casters (furies come to mind) do not.

Basically melee dps already gets a lot more ways to improve dps, and giving them the marginal increase to ability reuse would be even more over the top, especially with reforging.

I have 2 melee classes and 1 caster at 90, for reference.

Everybody can get up close and auto-attack and make use of all the dps increases you called melee only. The 'ranged spell auto-attack' damage is so sad that all of my casters have symbols, not focus items, equipped in their secondary/ranged slot and use their auto-attack in addition to their spells. Besidse, dps, MA, haste, etc only affect auto-attack, they don't affet combat arts. This means everybody who bonks the mob on the head with a stick can make use of them.

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Old 02-06-2012, 02:27 PM   #16
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Not only that, it means that reuse has less impact for melee classes because it isn't impacting all their dps. It's absolutely absurd that the adorns and reforge are both for spell reuse and not ability reuse, completely limiting both to Mages/Priests.
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Old 02-07-2012, 11:51 AM   #17
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Remember when they added spell weapon auto attack?  It wasn't all that long ago.  When they did it, one of their primary reasons for doing so was to "give casters some more stats to chase".

Well SOE, how's that workin' out?

Spell weapon auto attack is fine, but the fact that none of the spell weapon stats appear on DoV raid gear speaks volumes about YET ANOTHER abandoned feature of the game.  Instead of simply allowing the existing auto attack mods to work on spell weapons, we added more crap that isn't available or used.  Great design there.

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Old 02-07-2012, 12:31 PM   #18
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slippery wrote:

Not only that, it means that reuse has less impact for melee classes because it isn't impacting all their dps. It's absolutely absurd that the adorns and reforge are both for spell reuse and not ability reuse, completely limiting both to Mages/Priests.

My warden wants ability reuse, not just spell reuse SMILEY

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Old 02-07-2012, 02:24 PM   #19
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Mermut wrote:

slippery wrote:

Not only that, it means that reuse has less impact for melee classes because it isn't impacting all their dps. It's absolutely absurd that the adorns and reforge are both for spell reuse and not ability reuse, completely limiting both to Mages/Priests.

My warden wants ability reuse, not just spell reuse

My mystic wants spell reuse to fall over and die.

That said, with the removal of crit mit, mages and spell-casting priests are going to need something new to chase after. Red, yellow, and WHITE adorn revamp would be nice.

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Old 02-07-2012, 02:35 PM   #20
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I'm just looking for these two confusing and hard to quantify yet related modifiers to be consolidated into 1.  Mainly cause it makes the whole thing easier to explain, understand, and communicate to new players.

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Old 02-08-2012, 10:04 PM   #21
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This is one of the few stats that confuses some people.  I agree that Ability Reuse should absorb Spell Reuse.

The other stats are:

  • DPS - This needs to be renamed, or something.  Too often do I see random mages in pickups/PQs adorn this stat, believing that it'll increase their casting DPS.  Why shouldn't they?  It says DPS.
  • Strikethrough - I've seen Scouts going for this one that group/raid.  I explained to them that it doesn't work if you're positioned behind the mob.  You can strikethrough a block/parry/etc. if you are facing the mob.  Behind it?  Nope.  That block is impenetrable.
  • Flurry / Multi-attack.  These stats can't be directly converted into one another and essentially do the same thing.  I'd like to bring up that when an effect affects Flurry, it should say Flurry.  Not "attack target multiple times".

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