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Old 02-24-2012, 08:27 PM   #121
Corydonn

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Darkonx wrote:

What I plan to lay out below is why a Monk should never die. This is how their abilities work during a fight.

On incoming, you cast Brawlers Tenacity(combined with Chi), this gives you 3 triggers of a deathsave, for 90 seconds. So from 0-90s, you can't die. This has a 150 second reuse.

After that comes down, you cast Tsunami, which makes you invincible to melee damage for 20 seconds. One might think that magical attacks could still kill you, but they can't, because all of the wards you are getting are absorbing the magical attacks since the mobs auto attacks can't do anything to you. Another 20s death-immunity, as it were. 90 second reuse. This takes you up to 110s into the fight.

Once that comes down, you cast Bob and Weave, it's basically another Tsunami, only for 12 seconds rather than 20, and on a 75s recast. This takes you up to 122s into the fight, without having had a chance at death.

Once Bob and Weave comes down, you cast Stone Cold (15% group damage reduction for 20s, on a 50s recast), combined with Provoking Stance(25% damage reduction on a 107s recast). This means you're taking 40% less damage from everything, not accounting for mitigation/resists/your passive 10% when you get hit. You wont die taking half damage from mobs, ever. So this grants you another 25 seconds of invincibility. Guess what? You're now 157 seconds into the fight, and your DI came up 7 seconds ago. Rinse/repeat. You are an invincible, unstoppable, juggernaut.

In this series we never used Perfect Guard, 30s recast single hit stoneskin, that you can use to account for any AE, because we didn't have to!

Nor did we use Inner Focus in this set, a two hit physical stoneskin on a 71s recast, because again, we never needed to!

Yet again, we didn't use Outward Calm, a 30k magical ward with a 30s duration, 45s recast, because there was no need!

Mountain Stance for 4k physical mitigation and 3k to all resists? Why bother! You wont ever die anyways!

Body Like Mountain, it roots me, and I don't need the extra 1200 mitigation, so I'm CERTAINLY not casting that!

Mend? That's a 100% heal that gives me 15% extra block! I don't need it though BECAUSE I DON"T TAKE DAMAGE!

Oh, and 100% of the time I get hit, I proc 30% damage reduction for 3 seconds! It can only proc once every 10 seconds, but hey, I'll take 30% damage reduction 30% of the time, any day!

I get hit for more than 15% of my health, so I heal for 40% of my health? Sounds sweet! (Of course instead of a heal Bruisers get a stoneskin on every successful avoid. You can imagine how quickly that becomes insanely imbalanced, being a brawler and having 94% static avoidance. To give you an idea it's about DOUBLE the amount that a dirge grants. Lol.)

This is all on top of taking less than half as much damage from physical attacks as a plate tank due to innate avoidance/mitigation values. Stop telling me I'm balanced. I play both classes. I am not balanced.

(For terrible players with terrible AA specs, perhaps Brawlers are balanced. For those of us who know what we are doing and min/max though, they are so completely ridiculously imbalanced that it's GAMEBREAKING.)

I really need to copy this for the brawler forums on another site so I never ever have to repeat this to anyone in game again.

I was going to make one for bruisers but I got lazy and never got around to it. Even with a guide on what mobs have what aes for Physical and Magical stoneskin usage. SMILEY

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:34 PM   #122
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Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

Your numbers aren't factual at all they are horrible.  But now throw in an item from a mob most people dont even bother with and very few brawlers have.  Or hey lets make sure JC is on the monk at all times you sir are laughable.

Asking for JC once every five minutes is hardly ensuring it's always on. The image above is standing in a group. No ROA. No JC. No reuse temps.

Monks are currently broken. Sorry.

So you manage apparently to have maxed your reuse on every save despite only having your reuse maxed twice every 6 minutes for a total of a minute OK grats on your magical scenario that doesnt exist.

My reuse isn't max'd. Not even close. I'm at 67.8%. Hence why abilities like Provoking Stance have a reuse of like 107 seconds.

With 67.8% reuse, you can chain saves INDEFTINITELY. That reuse is with mostly HM armor. I haven't stacked any pieces specifically for reuse, and my monk has inferior gear to my SK or the values would be even more absurd.

Sweet so you cleared all the content on your invincible monk months ago and was waiting for equalibrium to catch up woot! that was very nice of you sir. 

My favorite BTW is you cant die with for 90s because of tenacity.  Thats some serious math you got gooin on son.

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:34 PM   #123
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Darkonx wrote:

What I plan to lay out below is why a Monk should never die. This is how their abilities work during a fight.

On incoming, you cast Brawlers Tenacity(combined with Chi), this gives you 3 triggers of a deathsave, for 90 seconds. So from 0-90s, you can't die. This has a 150 second reuse.

After that comes down, you cast Tsunami, which makes you invincible to melee damage for 20 seconds. One might think that magical attacks could still kill you, but they can't, because all of the wards you are getting are absorbing the magical attacks since the mobs auto attacks can't do anything to you. Another 20s death-immunity, as it were. 90 second reuse. This takes you up to 110s into the fight.

Once that comes down, you cast Bob and Weave, it's basically another Tsunami, only for 12 seconds rather than 20, and on a 75s recast. This takes you up to 122s into the fight, without having had a chance at death.

Once Bob and Weave comes down, you cast Stone Cold (15% group damage reduction for 20s, on a 50s recast), combined with Provoking Stance(25% damage reduction on a 107s recast). This means you're taking 40% less damage from everything, not accounting for mitigation/resists/your passive 10% when you get hit. You wont die taking half damage from mobs, ever. So this grants you another 25 seconds of invincibility. Guess what? You're now 157 seconds into the fight, and your DI came up 7 seconds ago. Rinse/repeat. You are an invincible, unstoppable, juggernaut.

In this series we never used Perfect Guard, 30s recast single hit stoneskin, that you can use to account for any AE, because we didn't have to!

Nor did we use Inner Focus in this set, a two hit physical stoneskin on a 71s recast, because again, we never needed to!

Yet again, we didn't use Outward Calm, a 30k magical ward with a 30s duration, 45s recast, because there was no need!

Mountain Stance for 4k physical mitigation and 3k to all resists? Why bother! You wont ever die anyways!

Body Like Mountain, it roots me, and I don't need the extra 1200 mitigation, so I'm CERTAINLY not casting that!

Mend? That's a 100% heal that gives me 15% extra block! I don't need it though BECAUSE I DON"T TAKE DAMAGE!

Oh, and 100% of the time I get hit, I proc 30% damage reduction for 3 seconds! It can only proc once every 10 seconds, but hey, I'll take 30% damage reduction 30% of the time, any day!

I get hit for more than 40% of my health, so I heal for 15% of my health? Sounds sweet! (Of course instead of a heal Bruisers get a stoneskin on every successful avoid. You can imagine how quickly that becomes insanely imbalanced, being a brawler and having 94% static avoidance. To give you an idea it's about DOUBLE the amount that a dirge grants. Lol.)

This is all on top of taking less than half as much damage from physical attacks as a plate tank due to innate avoidance/mitigation values. Stop telling me I'm balanced. I play both classes. I am not balanced.

(For terrible players with terrible AA specs, perhaps Brawlers are balanced. For those of us who know what we are doing and min/max though, they are so completely ridiculously imbalanced that it's GAMEBREAKING.)

Just for kicks, I thought I'd do a similar time-line for an SK. Let's say I always want to have an equivalent damage prevention running. Let's see how far through a fight I can get!

I'll open up the fight with Furor, it gives me 15 seconds of avoidance on a 131 second recast(Not strikethrough-immune, or even strikethrough-resistant! Avoidance). Okay, 15s in, I'm alive, good!

Then I cast Manawall, it lasts 12 seconds, but it cancels when your mana drops below 10%, so realistically you're lucky to get 5 seconds out of it. This ability wont be back for another 108 seconds. 20 seconds in, looking good!

Hmm, what to cast now. Let's try Legionnaire's Conviction(180s reuse, unmodifiable). This is similar to the combination listed above for brawlers in that it grants damage reduction, but only to magical unfortunately! So now I get trucked by physical AE's, or even auto attack. Not a period of invincibility, so much as being SLIGHTLY less death-prone. 40 seconds in, and still kicking if a melee AE/auto attack hasn't downed me yet!

After that I cast Crusaders Faith, which heals me for 24 seconds. It wont stop one shots, the only thing it will do is prevent me from getting slowly attacked to death, something that happens so rarely as it warrants massive remarks if it IS ever to happen. It's not even comparable to any of the monk abilities, and I'm rather dubious if I should list it at all. Yeah, 64 seconds into the fight! Still alive if I'm lucky!

What now? I have a single one hit stoneskin on more than double the recast of Perfect Guard. I also have a ward that drains 25% of my groups health that will probably last through one multi attack swing. Other than those two I have nothing up for the next sixty seconds. I'm defenseless for as long as I have defenses, compared to the monk who has OVERLAP on their abilities. Just the act of writing all this out is just showing me again how utterly imbalanced the classes are.

We have 20 seconds of comparable defense to their FULL TIME defense, and then a full two minutes where nothing we have even remotely compares.

How can anyone POSSIBLY think tanks are balanced? It blows me away.

P.S. Just for the record, my SK has MUCH better gear than my Brawler.

Edit: Altered numbers on meditative mending to be correct. Lol.

http://i42.tinypic.com/30934uu.png

There's a screenshot showing monk saves, with reuses/durations.

My gear isn't all that great. I'm sure other monks have much better reuse.

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:38 PM   #124
Darkonx

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Corydonn wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

What I plan to lay out below is why a Monk should never die. This is how their abilities work during a fight.

On incoming, you cast Brawlers Tenacity(combined with Chi), this gives you 3 triggers of a deathsave, for 90 seconds. So from 0-90s, you can't die. This has a 150 second reuse.

After that comes down, you cast Tsunami, which makes you invincible to melee damage for 20 seconds. One might think that magical attacks could still kill you, but they can't, because all of the wards you are getting are absorbing the magical attacks since the mobs auto attacks can't do anything to you. Another 20s death-immunity, as it were. 90 second reuse. This takes you up to 110s into the fight.

Once that comes down, you cast Bob and Weave, it's basically another Tsunami, only for 12 seconds rather than 20, and on a 75s recast. This takes you up to 122s into the fight, without having had a chance at death.

Once Bob and Weave comes down, you cast Stone Cold (15% group damage reduction for 20s, on a 50s recast), combined with Provoking Stance(25% damage reduction on a 107s recast). This means you're taking 40% less damage from everything, not accounting for mitigation/resists/your passive 10% when you get hit. You wont die taking half damage from mobs, ever. So this grants you another 25 seconds of invincibility. Guess what? You're now 157 seconds into the fight, and your DI came up 7 seconds ago. Rinse/repeat. You are an invincible, unstoppable, juggernaut.

In this series we never used Perfect Guard, 30s recast single hit stoneskin, that you can use to account for any AE, because we didn't have to!

Nor did we use Inner Focus in this set, a two hit physical stoneskin on a 71s recast, because again, we never needed to!

Yet again, we didn't use Outward Calm, a 30k magical ward with a 30s duration, 45s recast, because there was no need!

Mountain Stance for 4k physical mitigation and 3k to all resists? Why bother! You wont ever die anyways!

Body Like Mountain, it roots me, and I don't need the extra 1200 mitigation, so I'm CERTAINLY not casting that!

Mend? That's a 100% heal that gives me 15% extra block! I don't need it though BECAUSE I DON"T TAKE DAMAGE!

Oh, and 100% of the time I get hit, I proc 30% damage reduction for 3 seconds! It can only proc once every 10 seconds, but hey, I'll take 30% damage reduction 30% of the time, any day!

I get hit for more than 15% of my health, so I heal for 40% of my health? Sounds sweet! (Of course instead of a heal Bruisers get a stoneskin on every successful avoid. You can imagine how quickly that becomes insanely imbalanced, being a brawler and having 94% static avoidance. To give you an idea it's about DOUBLE the amount that a dirge grants. Lol.)

This is all on top of taking less than half as much damage from physical attacks as a plate tank due to innate avoidance/mitigation values. Stop telling me I'm balanced. I play both classes. I am not balanced.

(For terrible players with terrible AA specs, perhaps Brawlers are balanced. For those of us who know what we are doing and min/max though, they are so completely ridiculously imbalanced that it's GAMEBREAKING.)

I really need to copy this for the brawler forums on another site so I never ever have to repeat this to anyone in game again.

I was going to make one for bruisers but I got lazy and never got around to it. Even with a guide on what mobs have what aes for Physical and Magical stoneskin usage.

Lol. Corydonn. I don't get how other people don't understand how completely, ridiculously, insane brawlers are right now.

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:40 PM   #125
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Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

Well, if it is modifiable like he says it is, and it is 15 percent, and say you have 250 potency, a realistic number for someone with a lot of HM drunder gear, it would heal for 37.5 percent.

Then Chosen lands on you while fighting Soren and you get +200% more than that. It's absolutely ridiculous.

You claiming that the heal from Meditative Mending is modifiable by potency clearly shows how little you know about the class and this game, thank you for your opinions but you simply don't have the knowledge to be helpful on this topic, you should go back to blindly spamming your saves while the rest of us actually play this game.

It was when I last checked, which I admit was on Toxxulia, which is just after the abilities inception.

Why don't you cast your saves more often? Because you need them to be up when you need them. If you can always have one running that will ensure that you don't die, why wouldn't you? The answer is you would. Doing anything else would be asinine.

Again you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are now making things up from stuff you supposedly checked years ago.

I posted how you can indefinitely chain saves on a monk. I then posted a screenshot showing proof of the numbers and their values, and how they can work together to make the monk practically invincible. You have yet to disprove ANY of these FACTS.

I admit that I was off on the numbers for meditative mending, something I added as an afterthought. The rest of the numbers are screenshotted and posted just above.

Wrong, here are your claims

Meditative Mending is adjusted by potency - 100% wrong

You can chain monk saves all day so a monk can never die (Let me rip this one to shreds)

- a 3 trigger deathsave lasts all of 3 deaths not the full 1.5 mins of course you know if they don't go off then you never needed to hit it anyways right and your arguement that the deathsaves are OP is moot because they don't even contribute to a monks usefulness.

- you also use provoking stance in your fictional scenario yet provoking stance doesn't start its reuse until after it expired so even your 107 seconds is actually 131 seconds.  You also claim it would bring you to 157 seconds into your fight but in fact it would only bring you to 146 seconds into the fight.  Sorry but I know you are bad at EQ2 but math as well 122+24 = 146 you are welcome for the grade 2 math lesson.

- stone cold only has a 20 sec duration so its not even up for the full duration of provo stance

- your claim tsunami makes you invincible to melee for 20 seconds is also wrong in fact you can still get hit by melee damage for example a trauma AE it only makes you invincible to auto attack damage.

- bob and weave is in fact not even close to a 100% avoid in fact its rare for me to go its full duration without getting hit

So again despite the fact that you can in fact die with any of these so called chained saves up you wish to completely ignore that fact and claim it makes monks invincible, no it makes them tough tanks not invincible.

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:41 PM   #126
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Corydonn wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

I really need to copy this for the brawler forums on another site so I never ever have to repeat this to anyone in game again.

I was going to make one for bruisers but I got lazy and never got around to it. Even with a guide on what mobs have what aes for Physical and Magical stoneskin usage.

Copy/paste?? Sigh.

You need to start a monastery where Brawlers can learn the ways of the unkillable juggernaut.

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:45 PM   #127
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

I really need to copy this for the brawler forums on another site so I never ever have to repeat this to anyone in game again.

I was going to make one for bruisers but I got lazy and never got around to it. Even with a guide on what mobs have what aes for Physical and Magical stoneskin usage.

Copy/paste?? Sigh.

You need to start a monastery where Brawlers can learn the ways of the unkillable juggernaut.

If he was so unkillable wouldn't you guys you know have cleared everything instead of you know high fiving Equilibrium for unlocking raid zones for you?

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:51 PM   #128
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BChizzle wrote:

If he was so unkillable wouldn't you guys you know have cleared everything instead of you know high fiving Equilibrium for unlocking raid zones for you?

Blanka! It's hyperbole! I have conceded this semantics argument with you twice already (and your Damager friend, too!).  I am not using the word "unkillable" literally but rather to emphasize how hard it is to kill the juggernaut.

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:52 PM   #129
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Damager wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

Your numbers aren't factual at all they are horrible.  But now throw in an item from a mob most people dont even bother with and very few brawlers have.  Or hey lets make sure JC is on the monk at all times you sir are laughable.

Asking for JC once every five minutes is hardly ensuring it's always on. The image above is standing in a group. No ROA. No JC. No reuse temps.

Monks are currently broken. Sorry.

So you manage apparently to have maxed your reuse on every save despite only having your reuse maxed twice every 6 minutes for a total of a minute OK grats on your magical scenario that doesnt exist.

My reuse isn't max'd. Not even close. I'm at 67.8%. Hence why abilities like Provoking Stance have a reuse of like 107 seconds.

With 67.8% reuse, you can chain saves INDEFTINITELY. That reuse is with mostly HM armor. I haven't stacked any pieces specifically for reuse, and my monk has inferior gear to my SK or the values would be even more absurd.

Sweet so you cleared all the content on your invincible monk months ago and was waiting for equalibrium to catch up woot! that was very nice of you sir. 

My favorite BTW is you cant die with for 90s because of tenacity.  Thats some serious math you got gooin on son.

Surely even you aren't so ignorant as to think that your maintank never dying to the mob results in the mob dying! There are things like adds, and curses that have to be dealt with!

With Tenacity up, it lasts for 90 seconds, look at the abilities which have under a 90s reuse. You can use all of those DURING Tenacity and it they'll still be back up by the time you want to use them normally! You're a brawler and have been for ages, so either you're ignorant, or pretending to be ignorant in an attempt to invalidate the facts of the matter. Regardless, I'll spell it out for you.

Inner Focus - Check

Perfect Guard - THRICE - Check

Bob and Weave - Check

Tsunami - Check

Outward Calm - Check

Stone Cold - TWICE - Check

Obviously that's based off casting them all at the start of the 90s, which you wouldn't do.

A more realistic order is as follows.

Cast Brawlers Tenacity and Tsunami at the same time(Tsunami comes up as Tenacity comes down, so you can recast it then), 20s in, cast Bob and Weave(comes up at 95s into the fight), 33s in, cast Stone Cold(comes up at 85 seconds into the fight). That brings you to 55 seconds into the fight, without having lost a trigger of your Brawlers Tenacity. At this point you should probably stoneskin the next AOE with Superior Guard, just in case your healers go afk and your innate 90%+ avoidance doesn't avoid enough that you lose all 3 triggers in 20 seconds. Lol.

Monks. Are. Broken. Thanks.

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:57 PM   #130
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Darkonx wrote:

Damager wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

Your numbers aren't factual at all they are horrible.  But now throw in an item from a mob most people dont even bother with and very few brawlers have.  Or hey lets make sure JC is on the monk at all times you sir are laughable.

Asking for JC once every five minutes is hardly ensuring it's always on. The image above is standing in a group. No ROA. No JC. No reuse temps.

Monks are currently broken. Sorry.

So you manage apparently to have maxed your reuse on every save despite only having your reuse maxed twice every 6 minutes for a total of a minute OK grats on your magical scenario that doesnt exist.

My reuse isn't max'd. Not even close. I'm at 67.8%. Hence why abilities like Provoking Stance have a reuse of like 107 seconds.

With 67.8% reuse, you can chain saves INDEFTINITELY. That reuse is with mostly HM armor. I haven't stacked any pieces specifically for reuse, and my monk has inferior gear to my SK or the values would be even more absurd.

Sweet so you cleared all the content on your invincible monk months ago and was waiting for equalibrium to catch up woot! that was very nice of you sir. 

My favorite BTW is you cant die with for 90s because of tenacity.  Thats some serious math you got gooin on son.

Surely even you aren't so ignorant as to think that your maintank never dying to the mob results in the mob dying! There are things like adds, and curses that have to be dealt with!

With Tenacity up, it lasts for 90 seconds, look at the abilities which have under a 90s reuse. You can use all of those DURING Tenacity and it they'll still be back up by the time you want to use them normally! You're a brawler and have been for ages, so either you're ignorant, or pretending to be ignorant in an attempt to invalidate the facts of the matter. Regardless, I'll spell it out for you.

Inner Focus - Check

Perfect Guard - THRICE - Check

Bob and Weave - Check

Tsunami - Check

Outward Calm - Check

Stone Cold - TWICE - Check

Obviously that's based off casting them all at the start of the 90s, which you wouldn't do.

A more realistic order is as follows.

Cast Brawlers Tenacity and Tsunami at the same time(Tsunami comes up as Tenacity comes down, so you can recast it then), 20s in, cast Bob and Weave(comes up at 95s into the fight), 33s in, cast Stone Cold(comes up at 85 seconds into the fight). That brings you to 55 seconds into the fight, without having lost a trigger of your Brawlers Tenacity. At this point you should probably stoneskin the next AOE with Superior Guard, just in case your healers go afk and your innate 90%+ avoidance doesn't avoid enough that you lose all 3 triggers in 20 seconds. Lol.

Monks. Are. Broken. Thanks.

LOL thats all good till the second round then you can't roll all those things with your tenacity but good job grasping at straws.

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Old 02-24-2012, 08:59 PM   #131
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Darkonx: Let me See if i have this right... you are trying to say that a defensive tank (Monk) is more .. uummm.. DEFENSIVE then a OFFENSIVE tank (SK) and because of that the monk class is over powered?
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Old 02-24-2012, 09:01 PM   #132
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

If he was so unkillable wouldn't you guys you know have cleared everything instead of you know high fiving Equilibrium for unlocking raid zones for you?

Blanka! It's hyperbole! I have conceded this semantics argument with you twice already (and your Damager friend, too!).  I am not using the word "unkillable" literally but rather to emphasize how hard it is to kill the juggernaut.

It should be hard to kill a tank.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:03 PM   #133
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BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

Well, if it is modifiable like he says it is, and it is 15 percent, and say you have 250 potency, a realistic number for someone with a lot of HM drunder gear, it would heal for 37.5 percent.

Then Chosen lands on you while fighting Soren and you get +200% more than that. It's absolutely ridiculous.

You claiming that the heal from Meditative Mending is modifiable by potency clearly shows how little you know about the class and this game, thank you for your opinions but you simply don't have the knowledge to be helpful on this topic, you should go back to blindly spamming your saves while the rest of us actually play this game.

It was when I last checked, which I admit was on Toxxulia, which is just after the abilities inception.

Why don't you cast your saves more often? Because you need them to be up when you need them. If you can always have one running that will ensure that you don't die, why wouldn't you? The answer is you would. Doing anything else would be asinine.

Again you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are now making things up from stuff you supposedly checked years ago.

I posted how you can indefinitely chain saves on a monk. I then posted a screenshot showing proof of the numbers and their values, and how they can work together to make the monk practically invincible. You have yet to disprove ANY of these FACTS.

I admit that I was off on the numbers for meditative mending, something I added as an afterthought. The rest of the numbers are screenshotted and posted just above.

Wrong, here are your claims

Meditative Mending is adjusted by potency - 100% wrong

You can chain monk saves all day so a monk can never die (Let me rip this one to shreds)

- a 3 trigger deathsave lasts all of 3 deaths not the full 1.5 mins of course you know if they don't go off then you never needed to hit it anyways right and your arguement that the deathsaves are OP is moot because they don't even contribute to a monks usefulness.

- you also use provoking stance in your fictional scenario yet provoking stance doesn't start its reuse until after it expired so even your 107 seconds is actually 131 seconds.  You also claim it would bring you to 157 seconds into your fight but in fact it would only bring you to 146 seconds into the fight.  Sorry but I know you are bad at EQ2 but math as well 122+24 = 146 you are welcome for the grade 2 math lesson.

- stone cold only has a 20 sec duration so its not even up for the full duration of provo stance

- your claim tsunami makes you invincible to melee for 20 seconds is also wrong in fact you can still get hit by melee damage for example a trauma AE it only makes you invincible to auto attack damage.

- bob and weave is in fact not even close to a 100% avoid in fact its rare for me to go its full duration without getting hit

So again despite the fact that you can in fact die with any of these so called chained saves up you wish to completely ignore that fact and claim it makes monks invincible, no it makes them tough tanks not invincible.

Wait what.

A three trigger DI, and you can cast enough stuff during it's duration, whose recasts are below the duration, that you will never die. You shouldn't ever die during that 90s period. If you do, you're doing it wrong.

Provoking Stance being at 131 seconds instead of 107 has once again, ZERO impact on the over-all cast order.

122+25=147. I know you're bad at math but when correcting me at least use the correct values in the first place?

Okay, for 5 seconds you have 15% damage reduction instead of 40%. Cast Inner Focus to stoneskin the two auto attacks during that period if you're worried about it. It's not a factor in terms of survivability. Hell cast Outward Calm too, just in case any magical attacks have you frightened.

Did you read what I said about Tsunami/Bob and Weave? Obviously not. Let me retype it.

They don't stop AE's, but they DO make you invincible, because they stop auto attacks and thereby preserve all of your wards for AE's. If you have a full group ward, and a full single target ward, you wont be dying to AE's. If you get hit once during Bob and Weave it doesn't matter, because you'll still be preserving your wards for the vast majority, and if for some reason an AE hits RIGHT after that auto attack lands, you have your 30% damage reduction from your passive! Yay!

All of a monks tool kit combined to make them an absolutely juggernaut. Bruisers have an extremely similar kit. They're both incredibly overpowered.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:04 PM   #134
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I think that if having a deathsave that never triggers ever and is always on makes you OP than brawlers are the least OP of all tanks.  Discuss...

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:06 PM   #135
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Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

Well, if it is modifiable like he says it is, and it is 15 percent, and say you have 250 potency, a realistic number for someone with a lot of HM drunder gear, it would heal for 37.5 percent.

Then Chosen lands on you while fighting Soren and you get +200% more than that. It's absolutely ridiculous.

You claiming that the heal from Meditative Mending is modifiable by potency clearly shows how little you know about the class and this game, thank you for your opinions but you simply don't have the knowledge to be helpful on this topic, you should go back to blindly spamming your saves while the rest of us actually play this game.

It was when I last checked, which I admit was on Toxxulia, which is just after the abilities inception.

Why don't you cast your saves more often? Because you need them to be up when you need them. If you can always have one running that will ensure that you don't die, why wouldn't you? The answer is you would. Doing anything else would be asinine.

Again you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are now making things up from stuff you supposedly checked years ago.

I posted how you can indefinitely chain saves on a monk. I then posted a screenshot showing proof of the numbers and their values, and how they can work together to make the monk practically invincible. You have yet to disprove ANY of these FACTS.

I admit that I was off on the numbers for meditative mending, something I added as an afterthought. The rest of the numbers are screenshotted and posted just above.

Wrong, here are your claims

Meditative Mending is adjusted by potency - 100% wrong

You can chain monk saves all day so a monk can never die (Let me rip this one to shreds)

- a 3 trigger deathsave lasts all of 3 deaths not the full 1.5 mins of course you know if they don't go off then you never needed to hit it anyways right and your arguement that the deathsaves are OP is moot because they don't even contribute to a monks usefulness.

- you also use provoking stance in your fictional scenario yet provoking stance doesn't start its reuse until after it expired so even your 107 seconds is actually 131 seconds.  You also claim it would bring you to 157 seconds into your fight but in fact it would only bring you to 146 seconds into the fight.  Sorry but I know you are bad at EQ2 but math as well 122+24 = 146 you are welcome for the grade 2 math lesson.

- stone cold only has a 20 sec duration so its not even up for the full duration of provo stance

- your claim tsunami makes you invincible to melee for 20 seconds is also wrong in fact you can still get hit by melee damage for example a trauma AE it only makes you invincible to auto attack damage.

- bob and weave is in fact not even close to a 100% avoid in fact its rare for me to go its full duration without getting hit

So again despite the fact that you can in fact die with any of these so called chained saves up you wish to completely ignore that fact and claim it makes monks invincible, no it makes them tough tanks not invincible.

Wait what.

A three trigger DI, and you can cast enough stuff during it's duration, whose recasts are below the duration, that you will never die. You shouldn't ever die during that 90s period. If you do, you're doing it wrong.

Provoking Stance being at 131 seconds instead of 107 has once again, ZERO impact on the over-all cast order.

122+25=147. I know you're bad at math but when correcting me at least use the correct values in the first place?

Okay, for 5 seconds you have 15% damage reduction instead of 40%. Cast Inner Focus to stoneskin the two auto attacks during that period if you're worried about it. It's not a factor in terms of survivability. Hell cast Outward Calm too, just in case any magical attacks have you frightened.

Did you read what I said about Tsunami/Bob and Weave? Obviously not. Let me retype it.

They don't stop AE's, but they DO make you invincible, because they stop auto attacks and thereby preserve all of your wards for AE's. If you have a full group ward, and a full single target ward, you wont be dying to AE's. If you get hit once during Bob and Weave it doesn't matter, because you'll still be preserving your wards for the vast majority, and if for some reason an AE hits RIGHT after that auto attack lands, you have your 30% damage reduction from your passive! Yay!

All of a monks tool kit combined to make them an absolutely juggernaut. Bruisers have an extremely similar kit. They're both incredibly overpowered.

Provoking stance is 24 second duration not 25 you just aren't on my level please stick to the kiddy table.  And you can't use those saves the second time through your supposed always never triggering DI only the first time through so keep grasping.

EDIT: Also the 30% reduction from MELEE damage is a physical only reduction so unless its a physical AE your point is useless.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:13 PM   #136
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[email protected] wrote:

Darkonx: Let me See if i have this right... you are trying to say that a defensive tank (Monk) is more .. uummm.. DEFENSIVE then a OFFENSIVE tank (SK) and because of that the monk class is over powered?

Monks being able to go immune to death (in all practical scenarios) for the entirety of a fight in comparison to another tank having nothing up defensively for half of the duration of the fight is broken. Yes.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:21 PM   #137
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BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

Well, if it is modifiable like he says it is, and it is 15 percent, and say you have 250 potency, a realistic number for someone with a lot of HM drunder gear, it would heal for 37.5 percent.

Then Chosen lands on you while fighting Soren and you get +200% more than that. It's absolutely ridiculous.

You claiming that the heal from Meditative Mending is modifiable by potency clearly shows how little you know about the class and this game, thank you for your opinions but you simply don't have the knowledge to be helpful on this topic, you should go back to blindly spamming your saves while the rest of us actually play this game.

It was when I last checked, which I admit was on Toxxulia, which is just after the abilities inception.

Why don't you cast your saves more often? Because you need them to be up when you need them. If you can always have one running that will ensure that you don't die, why wouldn't you? The answer is you would. Doing anything else would be asinine.

Again you don't have a clue what you are talking about and are now making things up from stuff you supposedly checked years ago.

I posted how you can indefinitely chain saves on a monk. I then posted a screenshot showing proof of the numbers and their values, and how they can work together to make the monk practically invincible. You have yet to disprove ANY of these FACTS.

I admit that I was off on the numbers for meditative mending, something I added as an afterthought. The rest of the numbers are screenshotted and posted just above.

Wrong, here are your claims

Meditative Mending is adjusted by potency - 100% wrong

You can chain monk saves all day so a monk can never die (Let me rip this one to shreds)

- a 3 trigger deathsave lasts all of 3 deaths not the full 1.5 mins of course you know if they don't go off then you never needed to hit it anyways right and your arguement that the deathsaves are OP is moot because they don't even contribute to a monks usefulness.

- you also use provoking stance in your fictional scenario yet provoking stance doesn't start its reuse until after it expired so even your 107 seconds is actually 131 seconds.  You also claim it would bring you to 157 seconds into your fight but in fact it would only bring you to 146 seconds into the fight.  Sorry but I know you are bad at EQ2 but math as well 122+24 = 146 you are welcome for the grade 2 math lesson.

- stone cold only has a 20 sec duration so its not even up for the full duration of provo stance

- your claim tsunami makes you invincible to melee for 20 seconds is also wrong in fact you can still get hit by melee damage for example a trauma AE it only makes you invincible to auto attack damage.

- bob and weave is in fact not even close to a 100% avoid in fact its rare for me to go its full duration without getting hit

So again despite the fact that you can in fact die with any of these so called chained saves up you wish to completely ignore that fact and claim it makes monks invincible, no it makes them tough tanks not invincible.

Wait what.

A three trigger DI, and you can cast enough stuff during it's duration, whose recasts are below the duration, that you will never die. You shouldn't ever die during that 90s period. If you do, you're doing it wrong.

Provoking Stance being at 131 seconds instead of 107 has once again, ZERO impact on the over-all cast order.

122+25=147. I know you're bad at math but when correcting me at least use the correct values in the first place?

Okay, for 5 seconds you have 15% damage reduction instead of 40%. Cast Inner Focus to stoneskin the two auto attacks during that period if you're worried about it. It's not a factor in terms of survivability. Hell cast Outward Calm too, just in case any magical attacks have you frightened.

Did you read what I said about Tsunami/Bob and Weave? Obviously not. Let me retype it.

They don't stop AE's, but they DO make you invincible, because they stop auto attacks and thereby preserve all of your wards for AE's. If you have a full group ward, and a full single target ward, you wont be dying to AE's. If you get hit once during Bob and Weave it doesn't matter, because you'll still be preserving your wards for the vast majority, and if for some reason an AE hits RIGHT after that auto attack lands, you have your 30% damage reduction from your passive! Yay!

All of a monks tool kit combined to make them an absolutely juggernaut. Bruisers have an extremely similar kit. They're both incredibly overpowered.

Provoking stance is 24 second duration not 25 you just aren't on my level please stick to the kiddy table.  And you can't use those saves the second time through your supposed always never triggering DI only the first time through so keep grasping.

EDIT: Also the 30% reduction from MELEE damage is a physical only reduction so unless its a physical AE your point is useless.

Lol ok, fair enough. For some reason I thought it was 25. That second of having slightly less damage reduction doesn't matter though, so once again, your 'point' is non-existant.

The truth is Bob and Weave while it's up, gives you so much avoidance, that you will not die during it's duration. If it avoids all attacks but one, there will still be enough wards up that you wont die during it's duration.

Obviously the second cast of Brawlers Tenacity isn't going to be quite as clean in terms of what abilities you can use, and still have them up when you'd like them. Obviously some abilities need to be used situationally over the course of a fight.

If I cast Brawlers Tenacity and then nothing else, my passive survivability will almost always guarantee that I have all three triggers up at the end of it's duration. If I cast other abilities, even lesser ones like Stone Cold over the course of it's duration, short of my group imploding due to curses/adds, it guarantees that it will last the entire duration.

You're obviously trolling if you don't think the direct comparison between up-time on abilities doesn't show just how overpowered a brawler can be.

How do you think having 100% uptime on defensive abilities in comparison to 50%, is fair? I've talked to Corydonn and he's telling me clearly you're trolling, because there's no way you can be that idiotic.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:27 PM   #138
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I didnt think it was a debate that monks are better maintanks then shadowknights. The point is a DEFENSIVE single target focused class should be better. Monks are slightly better maintanks then bruisers. They simply have better single target agro and slightly more saves. Bruisers are slightly better offtanks then monks with slightly better aoe snaps.

Shadowknights can use a few tweaks but they are not broken. They can and have tanked all HM content.Honestly shadowknights, bruisers, and zerkers should be compared and be better offtanks, better aoe agro/snaps, and SLIGHTLY better dps.

Monks, guards, paladins should be compared to each other and be better maintanks and have better single target snaps and agro.

The problem with the above argument i have is certain tanks want the dps of an offensive tank, the aoe agro of an offtank, and all the defensive abilities of a maintank. That is not balanced.

I have posted my opinion on what needs to be fixed without these tanks asking for everything and that did include nerfs to brawlers such as removing strikethrough immunity from the defensive stance and placing it on brawlers avoid temps (which is as simple as adding 100% dodge to these abilities) and removing the extra death save trigger from tenacity in the heroic line.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:32 PM   #139
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[email protected] wrote:

I didnt think it was a debate that monks are better tanks then shadowknights. The point is a DEFENSIVE single target focused class should be better. Monks are slightly better maintanks then bruisers. They simply have better single target agro and slightly more saves. Bruisers are slightly better offtanks then monks with slightly better aoe snaps.

Shadowknights can use a few tweaks but they are not broken. They can and have tanked all HM content.Honestly shadowknights, bruisers, and zerkers should be compared and be better offtanks, better aoe agro/snaps, and SLIGHTLY better dps.

Monks, guards, paladins should be compared to each other and be better maintanks and have better single target snaps and agro.

The problem with the above argument i have is certain tanks want the dps of an offensive tank, the aoe agro of an offtank, and all the defensive abilities of a maintank. That is not balanced.

The problem is the amount of disparity between the two. 115% up-time in comparison to what amounts to close to 30%. It's not fair, balanced, or in any way even.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:39 PM   #140
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Darkonx wrote:

Lol ok, fair enough. For some reason I thought it was 25. That second of having slightly less damage reduction doesn't matter though, so once again, your 'point' is non-existant.

The truth is Bob and Weave while it's up, gives you so much avoidance, that you will not die during it's duration. If it avoids all attacks but one, there will still be enough wards up that you wont die during it's duration.

Obviously the second cast of Brawlers Tenacity isn't going to be quite as clean in terms of what abilities you can use, and still have them up when you'd like them. Obviously some abilities need to be used situationally over the course of a fight.

If I cast Brawlers Tenacity and then nothing else, my passive survivability will almost always guarantee that I have all three triggers up at the end of it's duration. If I cast other abilities, even lesser ones like Stone Cold over the course of it's duration, short of my group imploding due to curses/adds, it guarantees that it will last the entire duration.

You're obviously trolling if you don't think the direct comparison between up-time on abilities doesn't show just how overpowered a brawler can be.

How do you think having 100% uptime on defensive abilities in comparison to 50%, is fair? I've talked to Corydonn and he's telling me clearly you're trolling, because there's no way you can be that idiotic.

Cory is just being Cory which is basically a smartalec.  I am not trolling but clearly pointing out how completely flawed your argument is based.  If our DI stays up for its whole duration then I guess we didn't need it right?  Also, you completely underrate stone cold cause its a group dr it is actually really amazing for keeping group wards from getting sucked up and is great on hard hitting aes.  My problem with you and some on this board is you are trying to say brawlers are indestructable when clearly they arent they are just very effective at doing their jobs sure on a single target a monk is better than an SK but thats how they are supposed to be.  If anything buff other tanks not nerf other people down.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:48 PM   #141
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BChizzle wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

Lol ok, fair enough. For some reason I thought it was 25. That second of having slightly less damage reduction doesn't matter though, so once again, your 'point' is non-existant.

The truth is Bob and Weave while it's up, gives you so much avoidance, that you will not die during it's duration. If it avoids all attacks but one, there will still be enough wards up that you wont die during it's duration.

Obviously the second cast of Brawlers Tenacity isn't going to be quite as clean in terms of what abilities you can use, and still have them up when you'd like them. Obviously some abilities need to be used situationally over the course of a fight.

If I cast Brawlers Tenacity and then nothing else, my passive survivability will almost always guarantee that I have all three triggers up at the end of it's duration. If I cast other abilities, even lesser ones like Stone Cold over the course of it's duration, short of my group imploding due to curses/adds, it guarantees that it will last the entire duration.

You're obviously trolling if you don't think the direct comparison between up-time on abilities doesn't show just how overpowered a brawler can be.

How do you think having 100% uptime on defensive abilities in comparison to 50%, is fair? I've talked to Corydonn and he's telling me clearly you're trolling, because there's no way you can be that idiotic.

Cory is just being Cory which is basically a smartalec.  I am not trolling but clearly pointing out how completely flawed your argument is based.  If our DI stays up for its whole duration then I guess we didn't need it right?  Also, you completely underrate stone cold cause its a group dr it is actually really amazing for keeping group wards from getting sucked up and is great on hard hitting aes.  My problem with you and some on this board is you are trying to say brawlers are indestructable when clearly they arent they are just very effective at doing their jobs sure on a single target a monk is better than an SK but thats how they are supposed to be.  If anything buff other tanks not nerf other people down.

You very rarely actually need the DI. I agree. I probably lose one trigger, sometimes two, almost almost never three, while casting nothing during it's duration. Brawlers STATIC defensive capabilities are absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not saying Monks should be nerfed. Never once have I said that. I believe other tanks need additional abilities, and base cooldowns altered, for there to be any semblance of balance however. -25% recast off the base of Furor, and in combat BL would be a decent start.

Brawlers probably don't need Brawlers Tenacity at all. I think they'd still be just perfectly fine as tanks without the ability. I still think they'd be better than SK's defensively in all honesty.

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:52 PM   #142
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Darkonx wrote:

I'm not saying Monks should be nerfed. Never once have I said that. I believe other tanks need additional abilities, and base cooldowns altered, for there to be any semblance of balance however. -25% recast off the base of Furor, and in combat BL would be a decent start.

Just changing the recast time of BL to the start of the spell and not the end may fix the problem you have with it?

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Old 02-24-2012, 09:58 PM   #143
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My class was nerfed because it was way overpowered in Solo Content, now most of my defences suck.

I don't even use 1/5 of my abilities because they are almost absolutely pointless to cast.

List of Current Pointless Abilities/AAs:

- Blood Rage. (You hit me for 65940, LUCKILY I HEALED FOR 1000!)

- Juggernaut. (hey! I will lose 1000% Mitigation/All my Avoidance/Deal 1% Focus damage to myself every second for 20% Crit Chance!)

- Stifled Rage. (a little bit of Def/Parry... WOAH d00d)

- Ward of Rage. (lolwut? 200 point ward.)

- Dragoon's Cyclone (Lol100%AEautoattackCap)

- Executioner's Fury (If you die you get 25% Critical Chance!)

- Stance Mastery (Oh yeaaah +0.089% Accuracy In Def Stance!, +0.089 Contested Avoidance in Offensive Stance!)

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Old 02-24-2012, 10:00 PM   #144
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

My class was nerfed because it was way overpowered in Solo Content, now most of my defences suck.

I don't even use 1/3 of my abilities because they are almost absolutely pointless to cast.

List of Current Pointless Abilities/AAs:

- Blood Rage. (You hit me for 65940, LUCKILY I HEALED FOR 1000!)

- Juggernaut. (hey! I will lose 1000% Mitigation/All my Avoidance/Deal 1% Focus damage to myself every second for 20% Crit Chance!)

- Stifled Rage. (Def/Parry! HELLZ YEAH!)

- Ward of Rage. (lolwut? 200 point ward.)

- Adrenaline. (Changing it from damage reduction to healing half the damage killed the ability.)

Actually adrenaline was nerfed because of raid content whining. Heal crits were nerfed because of soloing/pvp

Everyone agrees zerkers are the tank in the worst position for raid tanking.

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Old 02-24-2012, 10:02 PM   #145
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My Entire Class was nerfed down to suck because of Solo/PvP whiners.

Oh yeah, those abilities are also not effected by Potency either, thanks to PvP.

Honestly, They should change Juggernaut to remove all avoidance/-2000 Mitigation for everything and give the berserker flurry instead of critical chance.

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Old 02-24-2012, 10:04 PM   #146
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[email protected] wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

I'm not saying Monks should be nerfed. Never once have I said that. I believe other tanks need additional abilities, and base cooldowns altered, for there to be any semblance of balance however. -25% recast off the base of Furor, and in combat BL would be a decent start.

Just changing the recast time of BL to the start of the spell and not the end may fix the problem you have with it?

That would make it much worse and alot less reliable.Remove the third trigger in heroic tree the AA for double duration is good enough to stand on its own.

Make bloodletter castable in combat.

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Old 02-24-2012, 10:08 PM   #147
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I honestly love Brueners "Blood Warding" idea, where the lifetaps would ward the Shadowknight if he had 100% Health.

I also wish Shadowknight's Lifetaps were a bit more powerful, and percent based.

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Old 02-24-2012, 10:10 PM   #148
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[email protected] wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

I'm not saying Monks should be nerfed. Never once have I said that. I believe other tanks need additional abilities, and base cooldowns altered, for there to be any semblance of balance however. -25% recast off the base of Furor, and in combat BL would be a decent start.

Just changing the recast time of BL to the start of the spell and not the end may fix the problem you have with it?

It being recastable at the start rather than at the end would make no difference, as I can't recast it in combat. It's literally a non-combat only ability. Similar to call of the tinkerer in that regard, to give you an exact comparison.

All tanks should be buffed to the level that Brawlers have been, to tank the content that we are currently fighting.

Shadowknights need in combat Bloodletter, and Legionnaire's Conviction should be modifiable. (Like it was in SF)

Lifetaps(Devour Vitae and Tap Veins) should also crit. (Like they did in SF)

Once those changes are in, I'll re-evaluate balance.

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Old 02-24-2012, 10:21 PM   #149
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Darkonx wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

I'm not saying Monks should be nerfed. Never once have I said that. I believe other tanks need additional abilities, and base cooldowns altered, for there to be any semblance of balance however. -25% recast off the base of Furor, and in combat BL would be a decent start.

Just changing the recast time of BL to the start of the spell and not the end may fix the problem you have with it?

It being recastable at the start rather than at the end would make no difference, as I can't recast it in combat. It's literally a non-combat only ability. Similar to call of the tinkerer in that regard, to give you an exact comparison.

All tanks should be buffed to the level that Brawlers have been, to tank the content that we are currently fighting.

Shadowknights need in combat Bloodletter, and Legionnaire's Conviction should be modifiable. (Like it was in SF)

Lifetaps(Devour Vitae and Tap Veins) should also crit. (Like they did in SF)

Once those changes are in, I'll re-evaluate balance.

You do realize I agree with you on those changes and think those are balanced with bruisers as i stated before. I dont agree with the changes bruener asks for which were ridiculous. I also think strikethrough immunity should be removed and placed on avoid buffs only. And as i stated before these are the comparison for bruiser-shadowknight saves.

Inner focus  60 sec reuse                                     vs                  hateful respite 60 sec reuse2 PHY only stone skins                                                               1 ANY stoneskin

Impenetrable will 90 sec reuse  12 sec dur          vs                 Furor 2 min reuse 15 sec duravoid buff/20% potency                                                             Avoid buff/20% potency/+hate

Unyielding resolve 3min reuse 10sec dur             vs             Touch of death 3 min reuse 8 sec dur avoid buff/ full heal over time                                                 NO phy damage over 60% of your health.                                                                                                  Stone deaf 1 min reuse                                        vs      Legionaire Conviction 3min recast(currently nonmod) 20 sec dur3 Magic only stone skins                                                            40% reduction of all magic damageBrawlers Tenacity 2.5min reuse  1.5min dur        vs       Bloodletter 1.5 min reuse(currently nonmod), UNLIMITED duration3 death saves, but drops after 90 secs                         2 death saves, AFTER both are used then it starts reuse WILL be DOWN for 1 min if it reaches full dur               Will be down for 1.5 min ONLY after its usedif it doesnt reach full dur it will be down longer

Ignore pain 45 sec reuse                                    vs       Blood siphon 1 min reuse100% heal                                                                     Its a HUGE ward  60k+Stone cold 45 sec reuse 20 sec dur                    vs      Manawall 1.5min reuse 12 sec dur15% ALL damage reduction                                         No damage, 10% of dam converts to power dam(this will not save a bruiser from any 1 shot)                (Will stop at least one 1 shots)???????                                                               vs       New myth cloak clicky 3min reuse, 8 sec dur                                                                                       40% ALL damage reduction/Aoe rescue

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Old 02-24-2012, 10:27 PM   #150
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[email protected] wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Darkonx wrote:

I'm not saying Monks should be nerfed. Never once have I said that. I believe other tanks need additional abilities, and base cooldowns altered, for there to be any semblance of balance however. -25% recast off the base of Furor, and in combat BL would be a decent start.

Just changing the recast time of BL to the start of the spell and not the end may fix the problem you have with it?

It being recastable at the start rather than at the end would make no difference, as I can't recast it in combat. It's literally a non-combat only ability. Similar to call of the tinkerer in that regard, to give you an exact comparison.

All tanks should be buffed to the level that Brawlers have been, to tank the content that we are currently fighting.

Shadowknights need in combat Bloodletter, and Legionnaire's Conviction should be modifiable. (Like it was in SF)

Lifetaps(Devour Vitae and Tap Veins) should also crit. (Like they did in SF)

Once those changes are in, I'll re-evaluate balance.

You do realize I agree with you on those changes and think those are balanced with bruisers as i stated before. I dont agree with the changes bruener asks for which were ridiculous. I also think strikethrough immunity should be removed and placed on avoid buffs only. And as i stated before these are the comparison for bruiser-shadowknight saves.

Inner focus  60 sec reuse                                     vs                  hateful respite 60 sec reuse2 PHY only stone skins                                                               1 ANY stoneskin

Impenetrable will 90 sec reuse  12 sec dur          vs                 Furor 2 min reuse 15 sec duravoid buff/20% potency                                                             Avoid buff/20% potency/+hate

Unyielding resolve 3min reuse 10sec dur             vs             Touch of death 3 min reuse 8 sec dur avoid buff/ full heal over time                                                 NO phy damage over 60% of your health.                                                                                                  Stone deaf 1 min reuse                                        vs      Legionaire Conviction 3min recast(currently nonmod) 20 sec dur3 Magic only stone skins                                                            40% reduction of all magic damageBrawlers Tenacity 2.5min reuse  1.5min dur        vs       Bloodletter 1.5 min reuse(currently nonmod), UNLIMITED duration3 death saves, but drops after 90 secs                         2 death saves, AFTER both are used then it starts reuse WILL be DOWN for 1 min if it reaches full dur               Will be down for 1.5 min ONLY after its usedif it doesnt reach full dur it will be down longer

Ignore pain 45 sec reuse                                    vs       Blood siphon 1 min reuse100% heal                                                                     Its a HUGE ward  60k+Stone cold 45 sec reuse 20 sec dur                    vs      Manawall 1.5min reuse 12 sec dur15% ALL damage reduction                                         No damage, 10% of dam converts to power dam(this will not save a bruiser from any 1 shot)                (Will stop at least one 1 shots)???????                                                               vs       New myth cloak clicky 3min reuse, 8 sec dur                                                                                       40% ALL damage reduction/Aoe rescue

You wrote this down before. There are massive problems with it. You can't just assume 100% reuse. That's a fallacy of logic. I wrote down realistic numbers between the two characters in similar gear; the SK actually had an advantage in terms of gear. There is also the fact that currently BL can't be used in combat. Until thats changed, comparing them is quite impossible.

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