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Old 01-07-2012, 08:59 PM   #31
Maergoth

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I didn't ask for the SK one to be nerfed, you're completely misinterpreting what I said. I also didn't specify HOW it should be nerfed, because I don't claim to know more about the SK class than a good SK would.

If a quality shadowknight were to participate in this thread and make a suggestion, I would turn them down as well. It's not one class' place to call down the nerfhammer on another class.

I'm not entertaining your trolling anymore. You're deliberately derailing this thread out of some personal inadequacies that you feel belong here, and they do not.

You're embarassing yourself and your guild. Go post on flames if you want to continue this discussion in a place where productivity isn't the goal.

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Old 01-07-2012, 09:59 PM   #32
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Your entire OP stinks of calling for a nerf to the SK cloak to "re-balance" them.  You specifically talk about how the abilities attempt to make up for inadequacies of the class and say its not the way to do it.  Than you rant about how YOU don't think they are balanced against each other as well.

Later you say specifically say that it should be nerfed.

So, why don't you just come out and say exactly what you mean if it isn't to "nerf" the SK cloak since I am sure that is exactly what most people interpret when they read your OP.

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Old 01-08-2012, 06:01 AM   #33
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The dirge cloak is also rubbish, with a rez clicky for some reason. If SOE are going to make mythical items it would be nice if they put some thought into them rather than just stick anything on them. It's going to REALLY suck playing a class that gets a mythical cloak only then to out it in our bags because it sucks. Some classes are getting really useful effects that they want, other classes just seem to get complete junk.

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Old 01-08-2012, 07:32 AM   #34
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Felshades wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

@Wentil

It looks like its a reactive heal, which means it wont proc if you get one-shotted, which is a major issue on high end raiding.

Especially as a Paladin where your only "safe" is Divine Favor - no stoneskin or else available.

Marr miracle is a 10 charge stoneskin.

Aside that..  yeah.

Not everyone uses Marr as a God...

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Old 01-08-2012, 11:05 AM   #35
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Either way the SK cloak needs nerfed or the paladin cloak needs buffed.  As it currently is, the cloaks aren't balanced whatsoever and that's just looking at effects.

Many other cloaks are absolute trash as well.

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Old 01-08-2012, 06:41 PM   #36
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I PM'd Gninja again, hopefully he gets this one and sends it to whomever.

That's the whole point I was making. If the cloaks ARE intended to be powerful and useful, then the paladin one needs to be boosted. If they AREN'T intended to be so good, and instead more of a luxury thing, then the SK one needs to be nerfed. That's plain as day to see, and I don't think anyone would disagree.

The whole point of requesting dev attention was to get the intent ironed out so a better opinion could be formed on the cloaks in general. Some of them are really pigeonholed into "bonus" opposed to practicality. If that's the intent, then that's fine. There's just such disrepency between them at the moment that clarification would be nice.

Considering only a small part of my original post had anything whatsoever to do with actual changes and EVERYTHING to do with clarification of intent, it's safe to say that it could have been applied to any of the class cloaks. I only used the ones I am most familiar with and qualified to compare.

EDIT: Bigger text so maybe it's easier for some of us to read.

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Old 01-08-2012, 06:51 PM   #37
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Good job finally saying what you mean.  Too bad you couldn't just come right out and do that in the OP.  So we can debate your opinion.

Now as to the Paladin cloak many will claim that it is even more powerful than the SK one because it is literally 16 seconds of not needing a healer.  Battle Frenzy didn't prevent one shots either and it was an extremely powerful ability.  16 seconds of self sustainable survivability seems pretty nice.

There are probably a couple cloaks that might need some tweaks.  But not all classes are equal.  Every cloak is GOOD.  None are just luxury items.  Luxury is something that goes in your appearance because it looks cool.  Luxury is having a mount that is 10% faster.  Combat useable abilities that are all going to be wanted is not a luxury.

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Old 01-09-2012, 04:22 PM   #38
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I think there are a lot of people who would disagree with many points of that post, so I'll leave it to them, lol.

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Old 01-10-2012, 05:06 PM   #39
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Maergoth made excellent points throughout. I agree that the current imbalance of the cloaks needs addressing. And I'm far from happy with the ”unique” conjuror cloak. We get a damage proc.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:31 PM   #40
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The pally class needs fixed for survivability, yes.

I haven't seen anyone argue that at all?

But why the heck are you trying to fix your class with a cloak clicky???  THAT IS THE ONLY THING I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.   I MUST NOT HAVE BEEN CLEAR.

 Yes, being able to survive 1 extra ae without a dp  is pretty uber.  (and i know that's why your upset)

 It would be interesting to know if it needed equipped or not and if that 3 mins is effected by reuse.. i know it SAYS not modifyable.. guessing yes.

The abomination i think is your sk?  I've looked at his parses and it honestly kinda depresses me.   Homework assignment.  Tell me what percentage of his parse actually comes from him and not group buffs. 

I would say since prolly only 2 crusaders worldwide will ever see these?  why does it matter and make them both crusader usable.  Problem with the pally class still not solved, but this point will be solved.

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Old 01-12-2012, 05:00 PM   #41
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First of all, this isn't a thread about class balance, it's a thread about cloak balance. If the cloaks are all supposed to be good, some need to be changed. If they're not supposed to be that good, some need to be changed.

The reason the cloaks have to be considered from a balance perspective is how drastically the game changes with higher end raiding. The idea of rolling full time with Divine Aura and Manawall is kind of crazy to most people. To put "useful" effects on mythical hardmode raid cloaks from the hardest zone in the game, you have to be aware that "useful" is a variable term. The metagame changes drastically with harder content, and you have to look at fights and play styles differently. When you're using every single button at the precise time they are necessary, an extra button and it's effects can carry an extraordinarily high impact.

For example, almost every fight has a repetition to it. No one plays fight by fight. You have to take it wave by wave. One set of adds, a set of three AOES, a class debuff, a curse cure, a death touch, repeat. It's just a matter of dealing with it piece by piece. To just slap an arbitrary duration or effect on these items and thinking "Hey, that sounds pretty good" might not have the practicality anticipated.  A 5 minute recast is just not useful operating under those parameters, and neither are most of the cloak effects.

Making everyone have the same thing is a lazy cop-out that we've already had months of. To come up with two unique, desireable clickies shouldn't be rocket science. Saying that only two crusaders worldwide will get them is flattering, because I know one of them was implied to be me! But truthfully, plenty of people will get them eventually, just like mythical weapons. Why wait until people get their hands on them and experience disappointment? Plenty possible to prevent that disappointment beforehand.

I don't really understand your jab at our SK. I've played with numerous shadowknights in my raid experience and Drums is great. A DPS argument? Completely irrelevant. How does any of this have anything to do with the fact that the SK cloak is hands down the best cloak by a landslide, especially compared to the other tank ones?

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Old 01-12-2012, 07:28 PM   #42
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I'm not picking on your sk man.  I'm sure he's great.  I'm merely saying look at his parse.  Strip away others classes dps and tell me what he parses.   Only reason i mentioned it is because you mentioned 200k zone wides

I just don't like the thought of.. get to end game raiding to get your class fixes.  I really really don't like that.  Like alot.

your fixes should be in abilities or aa..  i'd support you fully if you went that route.

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Old 01-13-2012, 06:02 PM   #43
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Well, Gninja responded pretty quickly saying roughly "This isn't my fault, don't blame me! Talk to Silius!"

Silius isn't so quick to respond.. aka, probably won't look at it at all :/ gg.

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Old 01-21-2012, 06:43 PM   #44
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The shadowknight one is fine. The recast is where it should be and the abilities fixes most of the complaints witht he shadowknitgh class.

While the paladin one may be a decent ability even if it prevented death such as clerics equilibrium the recast does not solve the issue paladins have with the need for a reliable stone skin type effect.

Idea for the paladin clicky is a single target rescue type ability with 6 secs of a clerics equilibrium type effect recast 90 secs.

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Old 01-21-2012, 06:44 PM   #45
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Well, Gninja responded pretty quickly saying roughly "This isn't my fault, don't blame me! Talk to Silius!"

Silius isn't so quick to respond.. aka, probably won't look at it at all :/ gg.

I find this statement not completely true. Itemization and effect decisions like this are done with a team effect. I suspect at least silius and xelgad worked on these abilities at the bare minimum.

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Old 01-22-2012, 10:22 AM   #46
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[email protected] wrote:

The shadowknight one is fine. The recast is where it should be and the abilities fixes most of the complaints witht he shadowknitgh class.

While the paladin one may be a decent ability even if it prevented death such as clerics equilibrium the recast does not solve the issue paladins have with the need for a reliable stone skin type effect.

Idea for the paladin clicky is a single target rescue type ability with 6 secs of a clerics equilibrium type effect recast 90 secs.

Don't turn this cloak into some type of balancing thing....because its not.  The ability is nice but only addresses part of the issue and you know it.

If this fills the gap as you say than this needs to be turned into a regular SK ability right now and they can make the cloak something else.  And than they can work on something that closes the gap in overall damage taken while making BL castable in combat and than we could see how the field looks.

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Old 01-23-2012, 12:39 AM   #47
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Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The shadowknight one is fine. The recast is where it should be and the abilities fixes most of the complaints witht he shadowknitgh class.

While the paladin one may be a decent ability even if it prevented death such as clerics equilibrium the recast does not solve the issue paladins have with the need for a reliable stone skin type effect.

Idea for the paladin clicky is a single target rescue type ability with 6 secs of a clerics equilibrium type effect recast 90 secs.

Don't turn this cloak into some type of balancing thing....because its not.  The ability is nice but only addresses part of the issue and you know it.

If this fills the gap as you say than this needs to be turned into a regular SK ability right now and they can make the cloak something else.  And than they can work on something that closes the gap in overall damage taken while making BL castable in combat and than we could see how the field looks.

These mythicals ARE class balancing. Just like the old mythical weapons.

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Asking for anything else but this cloak effect and bloodletter castable in combat is just asking to make shadowknights OP again. But then again EVERYONE in game knows that is what you want because you are unable to play a non Op class. I am sorry i play with a shadowknight that can tank npcs you have claimed you were unable to tank on your shadowknight. That is a player issue not a class issue.

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Old 01-23-2012, 04:25 AM   #48
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Before i start to rant about the procs all the way down, i saw that there is no red slot on them... and beside of around double str etc there is nothing great about it, imo.

there is no doubt, pala can tank anything, with barely no agrosupport ^^ (but a good dpsplayer ^^) joking ;P

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Old 01-23-2012, 04:58 AM   #49
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[email protected] wrote:

Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The shadowknight one is fine. The recast is where it should be and the abilities fixes most of the complaints witht he shadowknitgh class.

While the paladin one may be a decent ability even if it prevented death such as clerics equilibrium the recast does not solve the issue paladins have with the need for a reliable stone skin type effect.

Idea for the paladin clicky is a single target rescue type ability with 6 secs of a clerics equilibrium type effect recast 90 secs.

Don't turn this cloak into some type of balancing thing....because its not.  The ability is nice but only addresses part of the issue and you know it.

If this fills the gap as you say than this needs to be turned into a regular SK ability right now and they can make the cloak something else.  And than they can work on something that closes the gap in overall damage taken while making BL castable in combat and than we could see how the field looks.

These mythicals ARE class balancing. Just like the old mythical weapons.

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Asking for anything else but this cloak effect and bloodletter castable in combat is just asking to make shadowknights OP again. But then again EVERYONE in game knows that is what you want because you are unable to play a non Op class. I am sorry i play with a shadowknight that can tank npcs you have claimed you were unable to tank on your shadowknight. That is a player issue not a class issue.

So what's he saying that SKs can't tank?

One of my guild's main tanks plays a SK and bruiser. His SK has successfully tanked everything we've killed....

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Old 01-23-2012, 05:12 AM   #50
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[email protected] wrote:

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Except on mobs that triple attack and flurry, SKs really don't stand a chance without the constant deathsaves/tricks of a guardian or brawler. Give me a group setup/name of an SK that tanks the EoW HM 2nd named on a daily basis with only 1-2 pulls and I'll be impressed.

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Old 01-23-2012, 01:42 PM   #51
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The shadowknight one is fine. The recast is where it should be and the abilities fixes most of the complaints witht he shadowknitgh class.

While the paladin one may be a decent ability even if it prevented death such as clerics equilibrium the recast does not solve the issue paladins have with the need for a reliable stone skin type effect.

Idea for the paladin clicky is a single target rescue type ability with 6 secs of a clerics equilibrium type effect recast 90 secs.

Don't turn this cloak into some type of balancing thing....because its not.  The ability is nice but only addresses part of the issue and you know it.

If this fills the gap as you say than this needs to be turned into a regular SK ability right now and they can make the cloak something else.  And than they can work on something that closes the gap in overall damage taken while making BL castable in combat and than we could see how the field looks.

These mythicals ARE class balancing. Just like the old mythical weapons.

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Asking for anything else but this cloak effect and bloodletter castable in combat is just asking to make shadowknights OP again. But then again EVERYONE in game knows that is what you want because you are unable to play a non Op class. I am sorry i play with a shadowknight that can tank npcs you have claimed you were unable to tank on your shadowknight. That is a player issue not a class issue.

So what's he saying that SKs can't tank?

One of my guild's main tanks plays a SK and bruiser. His SK has successfully tanked everything we've killed....

Do not jump on the Gungo fail bus.  He is twisting words and comments in a ridiculous effort to avoid other tanks getting fixes to actually balance end game raiding.  The MT from his very own guild who plays both a SK and Monk has called him out on the issue and can tell you directly how large the gap is at end game raiding.  Just as I am sure that your guilds MT will tell you the same thing comparing the SK versus Bruiser if you are actually doing progression (EM that has been nerfed into oblivion is not where the issue is).

The short is there is no encounter at all that is not easier for a Brawler/Guard to MT due to the tools that they have to deal with the common 1 shot mechanics, strike-through, MAs, procs, and snaps.  Arguably there is only a couple encounters where they would not be the preferred OT as well...actually if they spec'd for large AE agro there is no doubt that Brawlers would be superior even in those situations of more than 4 adds.

The fact that Gungo despite saying that SKs are fine agreed that the Mythical cloak ability is needed to balance them along with making BL castable in combat is a testament that the ability should than not be a cloak ability and should be just a SK ability with something else on the cloak since he thinks that is what would balance them to Brawlers.  Of course that is his opinion and being a Brawler understates the situation completely.

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Old 01-23-2012, 02:34 PM   #52
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meh.. I can tank the first name just fine in challenge mode eow just fine with a single inquis..

But  on the encounter i get seriously squished, on the encounter one on my sk.  41k hps, part of it was turning the mobs a sec to get the birds i admit. 

>< i started gearing a brawler so we can try again.   (this part is seriously not a troll .. i'm just being honest)  I'm out of ideas how to slow down damage on me.  We get talonmender to about 10% each time before i just splat.

I take more damage then a single healer can heal and its not possible to bring 2 healers because we need the dps.

It was impossble without 270 crit mit.  ( i think it was actually 265?  one of them was critting and two weren't i think)

The tribunal miracle helped a little bit. 

sk's are far from being OP, thanks..

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Old 01-23-2012, 06:00 PM   #53
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The shadowknight one is fine. The recast is where it should be and the abilities fixes most of the complaints witht he shadowknitgh class.

While the paladin one may be a decent ability even if it prevented death such as clerics equilibrium the recast does not solve the issue paladins have with the need for a reliable stone skin type effect.

Idea for the paladin clicky is a single target rescue type ability with 6 secs of a clerics equilibrium type effect recast 90 secs.

Don't turn this cloak into some type of balancing thing....because its not.  The ability is nice but only addresses part of the issue and you know it.

If this fills the gap as you say than this needs to be turned into a regular SK ability right now and they can make the cloak something else.  And than they can work on something that closes the gap in overall damage taken while making BL castable in combat and than we could see how the field looks.

These mythicals ARE class balancing. Just like the old mythical weapons.

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Asking for anything else but this cloak effect and bloodletter castable in combat is just asking to make shadowknights OP again. But then again EVERYONE in game knows that is what you want because you are unable to play a non Op class. I am sorry i play with a shadowknight that can tank npcs you have claimed you were unable to tank on your shadowknight. That is a player issue not a class issue.

So what's he saying that SKs can't tank?

One of my guild's main tanks plays a SK and bruiser. His SK has successfully tanked everything we've killed....

oh?  So that sk was used for progression kills?  Or the bruiser?

Not being snappy i'm honestly curious. 

Because what i think i'm hearing is.  We kill everything with the bruiser tank and  once the sk has already geared past the encounter then he plays that. 

Because that's what i'm doing..  I'm one of the "suck" sk's who can't beat some content.. and i'm leveling a brawler to beat it. 

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Old 01-24-2012, 04:38 PM   #54
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Corydonn wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Except on mobs that triple attack and flurry, SKs really don't stand a chance without the constant deathsaves/tricks of a guardian or brawler. Give me a group setup/name of an SK that tanks the EoW HM 2nd named on a daily basis with only 1-2 pulls and I'll be impressed.

I  am sorry cory you have been playign with bruener to long you need to play with a shadowknight that knows how to play. Darkonx has maintanked every raid mob strike has killed on his shadowknight. He has tanks all of sullon HM including sullon, he has cleared EOW HM as a tank on his shadowknight with a solo healer, he has maintanked soren. There is NOTHING a good shadowknight cant tank. These are npcs bruener has claimed he CAN NOT tank. That other shadowknights have shown they can.

You want a name darkonx has tanked the triple bird second named in EOW Hm with all the adds with a solo inquisitor. we did this on the second pull he was on his shadowknight. he doesnt do it on a daily basis because he doesnt do heroic zones on a daily basis. This was also PRENERF to the zone btw. I am sorry bruener is just fail.

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Old 01-24-2012, 04:50 PM   #55
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Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Bruener wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

The shadowknight one is fine. The recast is where it should be and the abilities fixes most of the complaints witht he shadowknitgh class.

While the paladin one may be a decent ability even if it prevented death such as clerics equilibrium the recast does not solve the issue paladins have with the need for a reliable stone skin type effect.

Idea for the paladin clicky is a single target rescue type ability with 6 secs of a clerics equilibrium type effect recast 90 secs.

Don't turn this cloak into some type of balancing thing....because its not.  The ability is nice but only addresses part of the issue and you know it.

If this fills the gap as you say than this needs to be turned into a regular SK ability right now and they can make the cloak something else.  And than they can work on something that closes the gap in overall damage taken while making BL castable in combat and than we could see how the field looks.

These mythicals ARE class balancing. Just like the old mythical weapons.

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Asking for anything else but this cloak effect and bloodletter castable in combat is just asking to make shadowknights OP again. But then again EVERYONE in game knows that is what you want because you are unable to play a non Op class. I am sorry i play with a shadowknight that can tank npcs you have claimed you were unable to tank on your shadowknight. That is a player issue not a class issue.

So what's he saying that SKs can't tank?

One of my guild's main tanks plays a SK and bruiser. His SK has successfully tanked everything we've killed....

Do not jump on the Gungo fail bus.  He is twisting words and comments in a ridiculous effort to avoid other tanks getting fixes to actually balance end game raiding.  The MT from his very own guild who plays both a SK and Monk has called him out on the issue and can tell you directly how large the gap is at end game raiding.  Just as I am sure that your guilds MT will tell you the same thing comparing the SK versus Bruiser if you are actually doing progression (EM that has been nerfed into oblivion is not where the issue is).

The short is there is no encounter at all that is not easier for a Brawler/Guard to MT due to the tools that they have to deal with the common 1 shot mechanics, strike-through, MAs, procs, and snaps.  Arguably there is only a couple encounters where they would not be the preferred OT as well...actually if they spec'd for large AE agro there is no doubt that Brawlers would be superior even in those situations of more than 4 adds.

The fact that Gungo despite saying that SKs are fine agreed that the Mythical cloak ability is needed to balance them along with making BL castable in combat is a testament that the ability should than not be a cloak ability and should be just a SK ability with something else on the cloak since he thinks that is what would balance them to Brawlers.  Of course that is his opinion and being a Brawler understates the situation completely.

Twisting words please. You are the only player that posts lies here. What i said is shadowknights are not broken. They are not badly off as you state. I have never even mentioned EM. Nor have i ever stated brawlers are not slightly better. The only issue needed to be fixed for shadowknights is bloodletter castable in combat. The mythical cloak helps the shadowknigth with issues they are weaker on. All the class cloaks do the same thing. Its not a shadowknight specific set of items. The shadowknight from my guild even admitted to killing EVERY HM named on his shadowknight. YOU mentioned YOU cant tank certain named. This has been proven by competent shadowknights that are able to kill the npcs YOU have not been able to tank.

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Old 01-24-2012, 04:55 PM   #56
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

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Bruener wrote:

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The shadowknight one is fine. The recast is where it should be and the abilities fixes most of the complaints witht he shadowknitgh class.

While the paladin one may be a decent ability even if it prevented death such as clerics equilibrium the recast does not solve the issue paladins have with the need for a reliable stone skin type effect.

Idea for the paladin clicky is a single target rescue type ability with 6 secs of a clerics equilibrium type effect recast 90 secs.

Don't turn this cloak into some type of balancing thing....because its not.  The ability is nice but only addresses part of the issue and you know it.

If this fills the gap as you say than this needs to be turned into a regular SK ability right now and they can make the cloak something else.  And than they can work on something that closes the gap in overall damage taken while making BL castable in combat and than we could see how the field looks.

These mythicals ARE class balancing. Just like the old mythical weapons.

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Asking for anything else but this cloak effect and bloodletter castable in combat is just asking to make shadowknights OP again. But then again EVERYONE in game knows that is what you want because you are unable to play a non Op class. I am sorry i play with a shadowknight that can tank npcs you have claimed you were unable to tank on your shadowknight. That is a player issue not a class issue.

So what's he saying that SKs can't tank?

One of my guild's main tanks plays a SK and bruiser. His SK has successfully tanked everything we've killed....

oh?  So that sk was used for progression kills?  Or the bruiser?

Not being snappy i'm honestly curious. 

Because what i think i'm hearing is.  We kill everything with the bruiser tank and  once the sk has already geared past the encounter then he plays that. 

Because that's what i'm doing..  I'm one of the "suck" sk's who can't beat some content.. and i'm leveling a brawler to beat it. 

Depends on the progression kill. On sullon Hm he used his shadowknight for the first kill. On soren he used the monk on the first kill only,  but since he has done every other soren kill on the shadowknight because it wasnt an issue for him to tank, On spider in sullon I maintanked it. On generals in tallon he played BOTH his monk and shadowknight at the same time. He doesnt like playing his monk but does so because yes it is slightly better maintanking on a monk, but then again its better to offtank on his shadowknight. Do shadowknights need slightly tweaks? Yes. But it is not the huge they cant tank certain npcs issues that bruener claims. A recastable death save like every fighter for those longer fights is needed (bloodletter in combat). Another immunity/aoe snap will give them as many saves as a bruiser has and as many aoe snaps (myth cloak). Any major change beyond those will make the class OP like in tso again.

The lifetap issue dark(my guilds shadwoknight) mentions i honestly dont think will do much at all for raid survivability but could cause the issues that made SOE turn off fighter heal crits in the first place (OP pvp/heroic soloing). Maybe they can allow crits to only the two abilites dark mentioned without breaking the game again.

But one thing is certain shadowknights are not broken. They can tank anything in this game so far. They do this better then zerkers and probably paladins (i havent played with a good paladin in some time).

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Old 01-24-2012, 05:45 PM   #57
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[email protected] wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

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Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Except on mobs that triple attack and flurry, SKs really don't stand a chance without the constant deathsaves/tricks of a guardian or brawler. Give me a group setup/name of an SK that tanks the EoW HM 2nd named on a daily basis with only 1-2 pulls and I'll be impressed.

I  am sorry cory you have been playign with bruener to long you need to play with a shadowknight that knows how to play. Darkonx has maintanked every raid mob strike has killed on his shadowknight. He has tanks all of sullon HM including sullon, he has cleared EOW HM as a tank on his shadowknight with a solo healer, he has maintanked soren. There is NOTHING a good shadowknight cant tank. These are npcs bruener has claimed he CAN NOT tank. That other shadowknights have shown they can.

You want a name darkonx has tanked the triple bird second named in EOW Hm with all the adds with a solo inquisitor. we did this on the second pull he was on his shadowknight. he doesnt do it on a daily basis because he doesnt do heroic zones on a daily basis. This was also PRENERF to the zone btw. I am sorry bruener is just fail.

I wasn't talking about Bruener, I was talking about all plate tanks. Even guardian and Paladin friends are getting spiked out with no way to prevent it. And by the sounds of it you were there with him giving him avoidance.

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Old 01-24-2012, 07:32 PM   #58
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[email protected] wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Except on mobs that triple attack and flurry, SKs really don't stand a chance without the constant deathsaves/tricks of a guardian or brawler. Give me a group setup/name of an SK that tanks the EoW HM 2nd named on a daily basis with only 1-2 pulls and I'll be impressed.

I  am sorry cory you have been playign with bruener to long you need to play with a shadowknight that knows how to play. Darkonx has maintanked every raid mob strike has killed on his shadowknight. He has tanks all of sullon HM including sullon, he has cleared EOW HM as a tank on his shadowknight with a solo healer, he has maintanked soren. There is NOTHING a good shadowknight cant tank. These are npcs bruener has claimed he CAN NOT tank. That other shadowknights have shown they can.

You want a name darkonx has tanked the triple bird second named in EOW Hm with all the adds with a solo inquisitor. we did this on the second pull he was on his shadowknight. he doesnt do it on a daily basis because he doesnt do heroic zones on a daily basis. This was also PRENERF to the zone btw. I am sorry bruener is just fail.

Gungo now you are just making me laugh because I know exactly how my conversation with Dark is going to go later.

First of all....Dark will tell you like he did in the other thread that the difference between his SK and his Monk is night and day.  He even posted about it on the other threads and when chatting with him it basically came down to you are completely in the wrong....as usual.

Second, Dark tanked EOW HM the second named with an INQ WITH YOU GIVING HIM AVOIDANCE.  That is the difference.  Do you even realize how OP'd your avoidance is not being struck through on another tank?  I guarantee that your avoidance alone blocking for him was more than what he avoided himself....that is basically the same thing as bringing a second healer when you get to act like a pseudo-Brawler and not get hit.  Yeah, I did the same thing on the end mob with Cory having avoidance lend on me...I know exactly how it works.  A Brawler can give another tank 30% avoidance because of their insane avoidance amount that is strike through immune.

Really your arguments are getting lame that clearly have the goal of avoiding other tanks to get the fixes they need.  Anybody with even a lick of sense can see how terrible Fighter balance is at end game raiding........oh wait, now it all makes sense....

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Old 01-24-2012, 07:43 PM   #59
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Corydonn wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Part of the issue? Please, Unlike zerkers there is NOTHING in game a good shadowknight cant tank. Period.... Shadowknights have tanked everything you claimed was impossible on these forums. There are several RAID NPCS in DOV that a shadowknight are the preferred tank RIGHT NOW. This effect gives them another one shot preventing ability and another massive aoe agro ability. It is a VERY powerful ability. The only change needed is allowing bloodletter castable in combat.

Except on mobs that triple attack and flurry, SKs really don't stand a chance without the constant deathsaves/tricks of a guardian or brawler. Give me a group setup/name of an SK that tanks the EoW HM 2nd named on a daily basis with only 1-2 pulls and I'll be impressed.

I  am sorry cory you have been playign with bruener to long you need to play with a shadowknight that knows how to play. Darkonx has maintanked every raid mob strike has killed on his shadowknight. He has tanks all of sullon HM including sullon, he has cleared EOW HM as a tank on his shadowknight with a solo healer, he has maintanked soren. There is NOTHING a good shadowknight cant tank. These are npcs bruener has claimed he CAN NOT tank. That other shadowknights have shown they can.

You want a name darkonx has tanked the triple bird second named in EOW Hm with all the adds with a solo inquisitor. we did this on the second pull he was on his shadowknight. he doesnt do it on a daily basis because he doesnt do heroic zones on a daily basis. This was also PRENERF to the zone btw. I am sorry bruener is just fail.

I wasn't talking about Bruener, I was talking about all plate tanks. Even guardian and Paladin friends are getting spiked out with no way to prevent it. And by the sounds of it you were there with him giving him avoidance.

You asked for a name of a shadowknight who tanked this without the abilities or deaths of a brawler. Thats what i gave you. The reason we did it with two tanks was the dual mem wipe on jar and taranon and more specifically prenerf the adds were out of control fast and we didnt have the dps to burn all three named down before the adds power drained/overwhelmed us. The Sk has an ability for each kill they give the group power and crit bonus. We were able to blow up the adds fast due to the amount of crit bonus we stacked on the group with the sk AA ability. Since that time those named were nerfed to no longer flurry and reduced thier MA and hitpoints and slowed down the adds spawn. So i dont see a single named in game that you claim "Except on mobs that triple attack and flurry, SKs really don't stand a chance without the constant deathsaves/tricks of a guardian or brawler. " Because so far he has tanked EVERYTHING on his shadowknight.

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Old 01-24-2012, 07:49 PM   #60
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Bruener wrote:

Gungo now you are just making me laugh because I know exactly how my conversation with Dark is going to go later.

First of all....Dark will tell you like he did in the other thread that the difference between his SK and his Monk is night and day.  He even posted about it on the other threads and when chatting with him it basically came down to you are completely in the wrong....as usual.

Second, Dark tanked EOW HM the second named with an INQ WITH YOU GIVING HIM AVOIDANCE.  That is the difference.  Do you even realize how OP'd your avoidance is not being struck through on another tank?  I guarantee that your avoidance alone blocking for him was more than what he avoided himself....that is basically the same thing as bringing a second healer when you get to act like a pseudo-Brawler and not get hit.  Yeah, I did the same thing on the end mob with Cory having avoidance lend on me...I know exactly how it works.  A Brawler can give another tank 30% avoidance because of their insane avoidance amount that is strike through immune.

Really your arguments are getting lame that clearly have the goal of avoiding other tanks to get the fixes they need.  Anybody with even a lick of sense can see how terrible Fighter balance is at end game raiding........oh wait, now it all makes sense....

He has a monk not a bruiser (which is the better MT of the two brawlers) and he hasnt been playing him on progression mobs the last 2 weeks. Furthermore I never claimed monks are not better maintanks. What i keep telling you is shadowknights are not broken and able to tank everything in game and its not a huge difference you keep trying to make it out to be. This is the same argument you have given to guards and brawlers since tso when shadowknights were OP. Blood letter in combat sure i been saying it for sometime, since everyother fighter death save was improved. The new myth cloak effect will give you the same amount of saves and snaps as a bruiser. Also the birds do not strikethrough. Keep trying because you keep getting caught in more lies. P.s. Dark also laughs at the stuff you claimed you cant do so it goes both ways. Dark and I both know his monk is a better maintank. Thats not the issue. He stated several times on this forum jsut like i did you need bloodletter in combat. He also stated shadowknights need crit on vitae and tapveins. He said that would make them closer to balanced. Add in the myth cloak effect and you are MORE then fine. Those are his words not mine. And he has played both classes in a maintank role on every Hm raid npc we have killed.

Darkonx wrote:

We need to be able to recast bloodletter in combat, and we need to be able to crit devour vitae, and tap veins.

Change those two things, then maybe SOME balance can start to be reinstated.

You keep acting like you need some massive changes and you dont. Your class is not broken. In your case its the player.

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