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Old 06-20-2012, 12:37 PM   #1
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"Changes are coming to PVP and fighters class for EverQuest II."

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Old 06-20-2012, 01:16 PM   #2
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Or are we getting a needless threat increase? (I generate enough threat as is.)

Speak for yourself sir.

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Old 06-20-2012, 01:19 PM   #3
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That is pretty much his specialty.

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Old 06-20-2012, 01:20 PM   #4
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I have to assume changes to fighters means some balancing coming.  But to do that, I believe would require some changes to mechanics, something they've not shown either the willingness or resources needed to complete.

So I expect another terribad solution to fighters like the damage on avoidance mechanic.

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Old 06-20-2012, 01:23 PM   #5
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"Fighters Non-Percent based Healing Abilities have been lowered, but can now be critically applied."

Something needs to happen so non-brawler/guardians can also tank POW.

Its silly that brawlers have a higher healing parse then Paladins/SKs.

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Old 06-20-2012, 01:29 PM   #6
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Dream on Tala.  You're about the only one left that thinks that actually needs to happen.  It was a bad idea then, its a bad idea now.  It will always present scaling issues, even if the values are adjusted today, tomorrows game will break it again.

Its better to adjust the values up and not allow them to be critically multiplied, and / or make them % heals that are entirely unmodifiable.

Discussion of this isn't fruitful though, as whatever is coming has already been decided and we'll get it down our throats if it tastes good or not SMILEY

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Old 06-20-2012, 01:30 PM   #7
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Oh let them have ttheir here day! Plate has had theirs for years. Besides you are a heroic tank now, you own it. Be happy in what you have even though you play like a pile of scat.

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Old 06-20-2012, 02:00 PM   #8
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If I had to take a shot in the dark, my guess would be they are somehow making it more simple to play a tank.

"Fighters have too many taunts, it's confusing. Consilidate taunts into 1 or 2 buttons."

Maybe they will put all our saves on 1 ability with a 20 seconds recast, because it's too confusing to have so many blocks.

Maybe they made the beastlord sister class and it's a chain tank that uses his pet to tank and holds aggro on his pet with ranged bow dps and threat transfers.

Who knows.

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Old 06-20-2012, 02:11 PM   #9
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

"Changes are coming to PVP and fighters class for EverQuest II."

Anyone consider they are talking about changes to fighters IN PvP and not the game overall?

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Old 06-20-2012, 02:14 PM   #10
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

"Changes are coming to PVP and fighters class for EverQuest II."

Anyone consider they are talking about changes to fighters IN PvP and not the game overall?

Maybe, but the way they worded it makes it sound like that's not the case.

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Old 06-20-2012, 02:16 PM   #11
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Well you know they aren't stellar at communicating. If they said 'changes to fighters and healing' would you think they are changing fighters and priest heals?

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Old 06-20-2012, 02:20 PM   #12
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DPS classes allready capable of doing 1.5 million dps, I cant wait to see these changes to fighters I'm sure they will fix everything!!!!!

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:02 PM   #13
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

"Changes are coming to PVP and fighters class for EverQuest II."

 Err... we gonna get our healing criticals back like every other class in the game? I'm tired of my useless 1000 point healing abilities when I have 65000 Health.

 Or are we getting a needless threat increase? (I generate enough threat as is.)

 Or are we getting our hit rates looked at?

Fighter DPS is currently too high and their survivability is too low unless / until they out-gear a zone.  I'd watch what you ask for, it's HIGHLY unlikely you'll end up liking / wanting what they think is a solution.

Threat certainly could use a bump.  Threat values have been left unadjusted (and non scalar) for the last two expansions, unlike DPS which has quadruptled or more.  Fighters don't need critical heals for the sole reason to remove or lessen the need for healers or to powerlevel or solo more content.

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:38 PM   #14
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The designers will get into the details tomorrow in the webcast and we will post a few articles.  Ultimately, we need your help to Test the changes next week, but overall I think they are a good move on the part of our mechanics team that will help game play overall.

The changes are not specific to PvP.  I hesitate to say anything in advance of the webcast for fear of wild speculation, but the changes....

Nah, I'll let them tell you tomorrow. SMILEY

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:40 PM   #15
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As someone who plays a Monk and Paladin, I can come up with 1,000 things that should be changed. Definitely think Fighter heals should crit; also think Fighter dps should be lowered, but threat (particularly burst threat) substantially increased.

I feel like the monk in particular needs some kind of opening ranged attack that gives them a buttload of threat off the bat; Dragon Fire works to some small degree, but I'd prefer an encounter only ability for this instance. I don't like reliance on hate mod buffs or hate transfers for tanks to be able to compete for aggro with say... a ranger. I think any well played tank should be able to hold aggro (st and ae) off of equally skilled and geared dps, without the buff crutch.

I've also always felt like (and this includes all classes, not just fighters) auto attack damage is too high, and combat art damage is too low. I'm thinking a sizable nerf to autoattack damage multipliers, but perhaps multi-attack or flurry work on combat arts, and combat arts have a reduced reuse timer (like 15s instead of 30s base). Something that would turn these 55% autoattack parses into maybe 20%; also, perhaps to keep finding new weapons fun and interesting, your weapons can help determine your combat arts damage.

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:42 PM   #16
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Some fighters give up "MAX HEALTH" "Defensive Abilities" and Other things for more damage, and that isn't even as much as it used to be.

If your going to lower fighters damage, then your going to have to seriously change some abilities to compensate/add alot more defenses to several classes.

You might as well Merge Guardian/Berserker, if you lower DPS, berserker will be useless.

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:47 PM   #17
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

You might as well Merge Guardian/Berserker, if you lower DPS, berserker will be useless.

Aren't they already? lulz

I mean... A Guardian can max his MA and AE auto with easy mode instance gear and a wild swings adornment now (I was almost able to do just that on a Mystic, for poop's sake). Those multitudes of DPS and Haste buffs were already useless; and I'm pretty sure Guardian and Berserker combat arts already did about the same damage; but Berserkers may have a couple more.

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Old 06-20-2012, 03:50 PM   #18
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Goozman wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

You might as well Merge Guardian/Berserker, if you lower DPS, berserker will be useless.

Aren't they already? lulz

I mean... A Guardian can max his MA and AE auto with easy mode instance gear and a wild swings adornment now (I was almost able to do just that on a Mystic, for poop's sake). Those multitudes of DPS and Haste buffs were already useless; and I'm pretty sure Guardian and Berserker combat arts already did about the same damage; but Berserkers may have a couple more.

So, Guardian Single Target Combat Arts do MORE damage (25% from talents.) and even have 100% Hit Rates.

Guardians also have a AOE 25% Dehate Buff (group.) and a 50% Hate Reduction on a Target, and a 15% hate Transfer.

They also have stoneskins (some of them last awile, most are clicked.)/3000-4000 Extra Health. (Zerkers do not get health buffs.)

Please consider all this when you decide to nerf class damage.

Lol, Our mythical also converts damage into hate... 

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Old 06-20-2012, 04:05 PM   #19
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

So, Guardian Single Target Combat Arts do MORE damage (25% from talents.) and even have 100% Hit Rates.

Only when we're not tanking, which is um, well, never for me.

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Old 06-20-2012, 04:05 PM   #20
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My point was if all 6 fighters were reduced by somewhere around 25%, Berserkers would still be in the same boat they are now. That said, they obviously wouldn't lower fighter dps without completely altering threat mechanics.

And again, all that said, they probably aren't lowering fighter damage, as they wouldn't be acting all excited about the changes if they knew players' tearducts were all going to explode.

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Old 06-20-2012, 04:10 PM   #21
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Goozman wrote:

And again, all that said, they probably aren't lowering fighter damage, as they wouldn't be acting all excited about the changes if they knew players' tearducts were all going to explode.

Yeah, I'm not excited about even the idea of change at the moment.  Maybe everyone is too young or too forgetful to remember Aerliks proposed fighter changes.  That was the last time SoE took a serious effort at this task and that pile of garbage was the worst possible thing that could have gone live.

So, you'll have to excuse me if I'm not terribly excited they're going to do something again.  Sure it might be great and fix some of the issues we have currently, but all in all, the current state is perhaps better than its ever been, so the potential to make it much worse seems more likely than the chance it will be better.

Xelgad has shown some real promise in the past, so maybe it will be good.  But me as an eq2 player, an eq2 guild leader, and an eq2 raid officer, I'd be far more excited to hear they were fixing templars instead of fighters.

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Old 06-20-2012, 04:18 PM   #22
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I would love it if they fixed.

- Juggernaut. (Lul.)

- Ward of Rage. (Lul, isn't effected by Ability Mod or Potency.)

- Open Wounds (level 92 Version would fix it.)

- Blood Rage (Lul, 1000 point noncrit heal.)

- Adrenaline (damage reduction again.)

Sorry.. most of us are all "doom and gloom" of any fighter changes these days.

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Old 06-20-2012, 04:46 PM   #23
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

"Changes are coming to PVP and fighters class for EverQuest II."

Err... we gonna get our healing criticals back like every other class in the game? I'm tired of my useless 1000 point healing abilities when I have 65000 Health.

Or are we getting a needless threat increase? (I generate enough threat as is.)

Or are we getting our hit rates looked at?

Clearly not playing a Guardian.

Heal change doesn't impact me at all AND my aggro sucks no matter what I do (compared to the DPS Gods that are SK's/Paladins on top of their threat transfer/generation).

Kindly keep your limited scope views quiet.

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Old 06-20-2012, 05:24 PM   #24
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[email protected] wrote:

Maybe everyone is too young or too forgetful to remember Aerliks proposed fighter changes.

You sir, are cruel.  The night terrors just stopped last month from the trauma caused by those proposed changes.

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Old 06-20-2012, 05:51 PM   #25
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[email protected] wrote:

 Maybe everyone is too young or too forgetful to remember Aerliks proposed fighter changes.  That was the last time SoE took a serious effort at this task and that pile of garbage was the worst possible thing that could have gone live.

I'm permanantly scarred from the whole Aerilik fiasco. Still sad that the multiattack, 8% uncontested riposte, and guard epic damage reduction were never restored. Xelgad seems pretty competent to me though.

Whatever the announcement is, it's already in the final stages of development, and I'm guessing it isn't anything spectacular or a complicated change. I seriously doubt they made adjustments to individual abilities of fighters, I have a feeling it's a couple of sweeping basic mechanic adjustments to all fighters... but I really hope it's not some 2-part massive change that gets trashed after implementing the nerf stage of the changes *coughaerilikcough*

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Old 06-20-2012, 05:54 PM   #26
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I sent a PM, and I got back a "NO.".

Appears to be they arn't going to be playing with fighter DPS at all.

What I think they are doing is one of three things.

- Removing the Hate Cap %.

- Increasing threat of taunts. (maybe changing the animations as well.)

- Adding Healing Criticals back to fighers.

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Old 06-20-2012, 05:55 PM   #27
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

What I think they are doing is one of three things.
- Adding Healing Criticals back to fighers.

you wish.

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Old 06-20-2012, 05:57 PM   #28
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

What I think they are doing is one of three things.
- Adding Healing Criticals back to fighers.

you wish.

She said the tank she plays is excited for the changes to come.

I think she plays a paladin or sk.

They want heal criticals back more then anyone so, dream big?

Theres no reason for heals not criticalling anymore since the best fighters do not even benefit from them (Brawlers/Guardians.)

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Old 06-20-2012, 06:03 PM   #29
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So from what I get so far.

They are buffing Paladin heals (not confirmed how.) and changing amends. (negative, they are gonna nerf it.)

They are buff SK heals. (not confirmed how.)

They are buffing some fighters DPS and Hate Gain. (not comfirmed how.)

The changes effect crusaders the most though.

Thats what I get from rumors.

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Old 06-20-2012, 11:17 PM   #30
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Rumors from talathion are srs biz.

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