EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

 

Go Back   EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire > EverQuest II > Class Discussion > Fighter's Arena
Members List Search Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-29-2010, 04:07 AM   #1
BChizzle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,095
Default

OK, so let's kill the whole CB vs KS debate since they really aren't relevant to each other.  Let's talk about KS vs DW, since DW is going to flurry and double attack is KS now as effective as a comparable skill?  If not how should we fix it without furthering crusaders OP'dness.  Let's stay away from the name calling, SK/Palys this is an obvious disadvantage please comment. Keep it non personal we don't need another thread locked because u guys want to call names.

BChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 04:32 AM   #2
Xalmat

EQ2Achieve.com
Xalmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,895
Default

Knights Stance gives you a massive DPS edge to Warriors when Warriors need to use a shield.

If you're going to argue versus dual wielding, argue 2 handers versus dual wielding, as 2 handers have just been brought up in damage (and should probably do more damage now than a 1 hander with Knight's Stance). In both cases neither of you are using a shield.

__________________
EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

Sess, Conjuror of PermafrostCyanide, Berserker of Permafrost
Xalmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 04:55 AM   #3
BChizzle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,095
Default

Xalmat wrote:

Knights Stance gives you a massive DPS edge to Warriors when Warriors need to use a shield.

If you're going to argue versus dual wielding, argue 2 handers versus dual wielding, as 2 handers have just been brought up in damage (and should probably do more damage now than a 1 hander with Knight's Stance). In both cases neither of you are using a shield.

Well isn't the whole point of KS to offset duel wielding?

EDIT:  Let me be clear, with the changes coming is KS as effective anymore.  If it was somewhat balanced to DW before the DW buffs is it still balanced?

BChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 04:55 AM   #4
Xalmat

EQ2Achieve.com
Xalmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,895
Default

The whole point of KS is to offset using a shield instead of a 2 hander.

__________________
EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

Sess, Conjuror of PermafrostCyanide, Berserker of Permafrost
Xalmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 04:58 AM   #5
BChizzle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,095
Default

Xalmat wrote:

The whole point of KS is to offset using a shield instead of a 2 hander.

Except crusaders cant DW right?  I mean they can 2H to thier hearts concent but they can't DW

BChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 05:01 AM   #6
Xalmat

EQ2Achieve.com
Xalmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,895
Default

BChizzle wrote:

Except crusaders cant DW right?  I mean they can 2H to thier hearts concent but they can't DW

You're forgetting that the changes on Test bring 2H damage up nearly to dual wield damage. You might wanna hop on Test server and compare the damage of 2 handers versus what they are on Live servers, and then compare them to two equal-tier dual wield weapons (remember to factor in the extra 1/3 weapon delay that dual wielding brings in).

__________________
EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

Sess, Conjuror of PermafrostCyanide, Berserker of Permafrost
Xalmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 05:41 AM   #7
Cyrdemac

Loremaster
Cyrdemac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 274
Default

Even IF they change KS to 2H weapons and forcing Crusader to use a 2H for DPS, its still inferior to warriors. Why? Because of the forced delay on switching back during combat, as warriors just need one click to change offhand against shield, and crusaders needs two clicks, 2H for shield - forced delay - empty hand for weapon. This takes more than triple the time to switch back to defense as a crusader then. This needs to be changed too.

__________________
Cyrdemac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 06:20 AM   #8
Boli32

Loremaster
Boli32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,425
Default

Warriors/brawlers can use a 2hander and DW - crusader can use a 2handed. After the change to autoatatck mechanics a few things become obvious

> 2handed vs DW even with flurry and AoE Auto procving off both hands it *should* be equal due to increase in damage> There are very few decent 2handers in the game right now, we have 2 from 4 rune theer and hard mode construct I think. Given you can't use a 2hander or DW past or at these mobs it seems a bit weird to have them coming from later mobs. there shyoudl be DPS centric weapons drop from lower level mobs> Warriors and Brawlers still have the 20% crit bonus advantage but since crusaders are less focused on autoattack to DPS (more procs) then honestly it doesn't matter too much

Verdict: Who cares on this one... I see the options as pretty equal... the only problem I see is lack of decent 2handers on the earlier mobs... when you will actually USE them.

Knight's stance is irrelavent due to needing a shield... so why even bring it up KS vs CB is roughtly equal; the additional benefit warriors/brawlers gain from the crit bonus doesn't *really* matter as there are quite frankly more important things to balance in the fighter debate.

Boli32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 06:23 AM   #9
Xalmat

EQ2Achieve.com
Xalmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,895
Default

Sounds to me like its just fine.

Hypothetically if a warrior or brawler chose to use a 2 hander instead of dual wielding and they wanted to switch back to sword and board or DWing they are in the same boat.

__________________
EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

Sess, Conjuror of PermafrostCyanide, Berserker of Permafrost
Xalmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 06:31 AM   #10
Cyrdemac

Loremaster
Cyrdemac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 274
Default

Xalmat wrote:

Sounds to me like its just fine.

Hypothetically if a warrior or brawler chose to use a 2 hander instead of dual wielding and they wanted to switch back to sword and board or DWing they are in the same boat.

Except Crusaders can't DW, warriors and brawlers can. So warriors and brawlers  can avoid the forced delay on switching, crusaders cannot.

__________________
Cyrdemac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 06:36 AM   #11
Xalmat

EQ2Achieve.com
Xalmat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 5,895
Default

Uh, youre arguing about the forced 2 second delay from switching items mid combat, a mechanic that has existed for years.  I highly doubt it will be changed for any reason.

__________________
EQ2Achieve - Your guide to all EverQuest II Achievements

Sess, Conjuror of PermafrostCyanide, Berserker of Permafrost
Xalmat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 11:40 AM   #12
Edminime

Loremaster
Edminime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 43
Default

KS was put in the game to balance crusaders to dw guardians and there 5 different abilities to block incoming damage on very short timers.And guardians like to avoid talking about these 5 different abilites to block incoming damage as a hole.

Edminime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 12:50 PM   #13
Kahling
Server: Kithicor
Guild: Legion of Steel
Rank: Monarch

Loremaster
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 267
Default

If you ask me there are too many factors involved when looking at Knights stance,  personally you cannot have a debate of just Knights Stance vs Duel Wielding you would have to have a deep understanding on how each of the other classes work.  I certainly don't pretend to have this knowledge, nor do I have time to get it, I am happy concentrating on one class as I have done since day one.

It is never as clear cut as the name of this thread suggests.

Example, when comparing just the two, allot of the raid content now can be duel weilded.  Duel weilding is worth approx 40% more auto attack damage, you loose uncontested avoidance when duel weilding but if your living it doesn't matter.  Knights stance is 25% more auto attack damage but keeps uncontested avoidance, this uncontested avoidance is required for some raid mobs.  Seems like a nice trade of to me to be honest, BUT there are so many other factors involved that what I just said should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Im in the same mind as Boli on this one, with the changes to 2H and DW it looks pretty equal, and the only problem I see is that the only semi decent 2 hander before HM mobs is from the x2.  From this I wouldn't mind a sublime 2 hander from the merch for seals and a slightly better one adding to someone like Pera Celsis then an even better one on Waansu.  (That way people arent forced to go back to killing an easy mode mob for one), and obviously they shouldnt be as good as the ones from 3 rune theer or the construct.

Kahling

Kahling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 01:21 PM   #14
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

Contested avoidance vs no contested avoidance?

Yea... I'll take knight's stance plz.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 01:33 PM   #15
Boli32

Loremaster
Boli32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,425
Default

So you're happy to trade your 20% crit bonus for Knight's stance then?... fine by me SMILEY -just remember it only works with a shield only for auoattack (not CAs) oh.. and you need 120 AA and spend 5 AA to get it. SMILEY

Boli32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 01:34 PM   #16
Kota

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 671
Default

if you ask me, making offhand aoe and flurry etc for dw is a bad idea. i think it will be op. pretty much ruins any motivation for me wanting a 2h too.
Kota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 02:42 PM   #17
Aull

Loremaster
Aull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,429
Default

Do I detect envy? Honestly crusaders have been and will still pack a punch offensively and defensively. This should be good for guards and brawlers since these fighters have been keeping the bench warm for the last two expacs.

Aull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 03:40 PM   #18
BChizzle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,095
Default

Boli32 wrote:

So you're happy to trade your 20% crit bonus for Knight's stance then?... fine by me -just remember it only works with a shield only for auoattack (not CAs) oh.. and you need 120 AA and spend 5 AA to get it.

Apparently you haven't read the instructions on this thread, this isn't CB vs KS 2.0.  Please stop bringing it up, KS is a buff that exists to combat the fact crusaders cant DW, it has nothing to do with a .2 crit bonus advantage, it existed before that advantage was even added to the game. 

When crit was made universal crusaders spells became grossly overpowered due to the fact you guys went from like 30%ish spell crit and hardly any spell crit bonus to full on 100% critting and full crit bonus of your spell attacks.  Your spells and thier damage numbers were balanced on the fact that as a crusader capping spell and melee crit would be extremely difficult as would spell and melee mods.  Rather then adjusting your spells down in damage the devs gave non crusaders an extra amount of crit bonus.  That is why there is a .2 difference it has nothing to do with KS please let it go.

BChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 04:56 PM   #19
Cyrdemac

Loremaster
Cyrdemac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 274
Default

BChizzle wrote:

Boli32 wrote:

So you're happy to trade your 20% crit bonus for Knight's stance then?... fine by me -just remember it only works with a shield only for auoattack (not CAs) oh.. and you need 120 AA and spend 5 AA to get it.

Apparently you haven't read the instructions on this thread, this isn't CB vs KS 2.0.  Please stop bringing it up, KS is a buff that exists to combat the fact crusaders cant DW, it has nothing to do with a .2 crit bonus advantage, it existed before that advantage was even added to the game. 

When crit was made universal crusaders spells became grossly overpowered due to the fact you guys went from like 30%ish spell crit and hardly any spell crit bonus to full on 100% critting and full crit bonus of your spell attacks.  Your spells and thier damage numbers were balanced on the fact that as a crusader capping spell and melee crit would be extremely difficult as would spell and melee mods.  Rather then adjusting your spells down in damage the devs gave non crusaders an extra amount of crit bonus.  That is why there is a .2 difference it has nothing to do with KS please let it go.

Wrong. Before stat consolidation, crusaders had at least 70% spellcrit due to the crusader-INT line already and with the new crusader-loving TSO equipment easily 100%. So the only thing that changed damage with SF was CB and potency, but this happened to every other class too.

And the only real change for crusaders was heal crit, wich was  around 50ish usually and came to 100% now. The first time those heals actually felt like heals.

__________________
Cyrdemac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 05:54 PM   #20
Bruener

Loremaster
Bruener's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,010
Default

To the OP...

Yes KS does need an adjustment IF they aren't going to beef up 2h weps even more than what they are on test to catch up with the new DW mechanics.

As a Brawler I am sure you understand how powerful the huge amount of AE auto attack is with both weapons being able to proc it, along with how much more DPS DW will give on single targets due to the flurry mechanics.  Xelgad bumped 2h weps 12% roughly to catch up with DW.....but that 12% increase only catches up to DW mechanics pre-AE/flurry from the offhand.  As the game progresses and people reach capped AE auto attack and start getting more and more flurry it is going to become obvious the gap that DW has over 2h.  Shocking really because we all know 2h weps should have been brought up 12% to match what DW'ing is doing on Live....makes no sense.

KS really should be changed to 15-25%(pending testing) base damage to all wep types.  This would help close the big gap between 2h and DW.

I mean what Brawler/Warrior is going to use a 2h to DPS at all when DW has such an obvious advantage.  Not to mention the much faster change to 1h+board that DW'ing gets over 2h...and for Brawlers even that is moot since they are a DW all the time class.

__________________
Bruener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 07:32 PM   #21
Cyrdemac

Loremaster
Cyrdemac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 274
Default

Xalmat wrote:

Uh, youre arguing about the forced 2 second delay from switching items mid combat, a mechanic that has existed for years.  I highly doubt it will be changed for any reason.

Interesting. Heal crit has existed for Paladins since the beginninng of the game but it was recently completly removed, rendering those spells useless. So I wont bet on your idea of never-changing-mechanics.

__________________
Cyrdemac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 07:53 PM   #22
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

Boli32 wrote:

So you're happy to trade your 20% crit bonus for Knight's stance then?... fine by me -just remember it only works with a shield only for auoattack (not CAs) oh.. and you need 120 AA and spend 5 AA to get it.

You obviously didn't read the thread, but yes: I would give up the ability to duel wield for knight's stance in a flash. I play a tank and uncontested avoidance is more important to me than pretending to be a swashbuckler.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2010, 08:28 PM   #23
Bruener

Loremaster
Bruener's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,010
Default

Rahatmattata wrote:

Boli32 wrote:

So you're happy to trade your 20% crit bonus for Knight's stance then?... fine by me -just remember it only works with a shield only for auoattack (not CAs) oh.. and you need 120 AA and spend 5 AA to get it.

You obviously didn't read the thread, but yes: I would give up the ability to duel wield for knight's stance in a flash. I play a tank and uncontested avoidance is more important to me than pretending to be a swashbuckler.

Oh but you would have to give up all the Block abilities too, since that is obviously part of the picture.  As somebody stated earlier you can not just pick 1 little piece of each class and compare it....its all about the whole picture.

Change KS to all weapons to actually make 2h = DW as was the stated intent of the changes.

__________________
Bruener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 02:11 AM   #24
BChizzle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,095
Default

Bruener wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

Boli32 wrote:

So you're happy to trade your 20% crit bonus for Knight's stance then?... fine by me -just remember it only works with a shield only for auoattack (not CAs) oh.. and you need 120 AA and spend 5 AA to get it.

You obviously didn't read the thread, but yes: I would give up the ability to duel wield for knight's stance in a flash. I play a tank and uncontested avoidance is more important to me than pretending to be a swashbuckler.

Oh but you would have to give up all the Block abilities too, since that is obviously part of the picture.  As somebody stated earlier you can not just pick 1 little piece of each class and compare it....its all about the whole picture.

Change KS to all weapons to actually make 2h = DW as was the stated intent of the changes.

So using KS removes all your life taps, your parry blocks. legionarres conviction, your extremely overpowered death save?  Um nope no it doesn't.  Way to try and manipulate the conversation with BS.

BChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 02:16 AM   #25
BChizzle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,095
Default

Bruener wrote:

To the OP...

Yes KS does need an adjustment IF they aren't going to beef up 2h weps even more than what they are on test to catch up with the new DW mechanics.

As a Brawler I am sure you understand how powerful the huge amount of AE auto attack is with both weapons being able to proc it, along with how much more DPS DW will give on single targets due to the flurry mechanics.  Xelgad bumped 2h weps 12% roughly to catch up with DW.....but that 12% increase only catches up to DW mechanics pre-AE/flurry from the offhand.  As the game progresses and people reach capped AE auto attack and start getting more and more flurry it is going to become obvious the gap that DW has over 2h.  Shocking really because we all know 2h weps should have been brought up 12% to match what DW'ing is doing on Live....makes no sense.

KS really should be changed to 15-25%(pending testing) base damage to all wep types.  This would help close the big gap between 2h and DW.

I mean what Brawler/Warrior is going to use a 2h to DPS at all when DW has such an obvious advantage.  Not to mention the much faster change to 1h+board that DW'ing gets over 2h...and for Brawlers even that is moot since they are a DW all the time class.

For one, brawlers don't get even close to the same amount of ae auto attack that warriors get, in fact the ae auto attack buffs will mearly bring us in line with the ae auto attack % of a crusader doing 1 handed damage without knights stance.  Get it?  The changes will bring us in line with your ae auto attack dps while at the same time you still hold a significant advantage on ae agro through your superior ca's and spells.  On top of that, you are under some sort of delusional mind set that 2 handed weapons aren't in fact the best options right now for any tank, the whole purpose of buffing offhand dps is to bring it in line with 2 handed weapons so clearly you missed the memo about 2 hander OPedness.  But I guess u know better then the devs right lawl.

BChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 03:27 AM   #26
Rahatmattata

Loremaster
Rahatmattata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,232
Default

Bruener wrote:

Rahatmattata wrote:

Boli32 wrote:

So you're happy to trade your 20% crit bonus for Knight's stance then?... fine by me -just remember it only works with a shield only for auoattack (not CAs) oh.. and you need 120 AA and spend 5 AA to get it.

You obviously didn't read the thread, but yes: I would give up the ability to duel wield for knight's stance in a flash. I play a tank and uncontested avoidance is more important to me than pretending to be a swashbuckler.

Oh but you would have to give up all the Block abilities too, since that is obviously part of the picture.  As somebody stated earlier you can not just pick 1 little piece of each class and compare it....its all about the whole picture.

Change KS to all weapons to actually make 2h = DW as was the stated intent of the changes.

You're right again Brownie. Let's look at the big picture: 150k harm touches, 70k+ dps, reflecting ridiculous amounts of damage, 3 bloodletters, 30% block, life taps, and feign death. Did I miss anything? Oh... lolevac.

__________________


A Cure For Cancer
Rahatmattata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 05:57 AM   #27
TheSpin

Loremaster
TheSpin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,587
Default

The current buff to 2 handers is just the first part of a couple changes coming to even things out. I think 2 handers might be getting some additional aoe auto attack or something else as well.
TheSpin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 09:14 AM   #28
Bruener

Loremaster
Bruener's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,010
Default

BChizzle wrote:

Bruener wrote:

To the OP...

Yes KS does need an adjustment IF they aren't going to beef up 2h weps even more than what they are on test to catch up with the new DW mechanics.

As a Brawler I am sure you understand how powerful the huge amount of AE auto attack is with both weapons being able to proc it, along with how much more DPS DW will give on single targets due to the flurry mechanics.  Xelgad bumped 2h weps 12% roughly to catch up with DW.....but that 12% increase only catches up to DW mechanics pre-AE/flurry from the offhand.  As the game progresses and people reach capped AE auto attack and start getting more and more flurry it is going to become obvious the gap that DW has over 2h.  Shocking really because we all know 2h weps should have been brought up 12% to match what DW'ing is doing on Live....makes no sense.

KS really should be changed to 15-25%(pending testing) base damage to all wep types.  This would help close the big gap between 2h and DW.

I mean what Brawler/Warrior is going to use a 2h to DPS at all when DW has such an obvious advantage.  Not to mention the much faster change to 1h+board that DW'ing gets over 2h...and for Brawlers even that is moot since they are a DW all the time class.

For one, brawlers don't get even close to the same amount of ae auto attack that warriors get, in fact the ae auto attack buffs will mearly bring us in line with the ae auto attack % of a crusader doing 1 handed damage without knights stance.  Get it?  The changes will bring us in line with your ae auto attack dps while at the same time you still hold a significant advantage on ae agro through your superior ca's and spells.  On top of that, you are under some sort of delusional mind set that 2 handed weapons aren't in fact the best options right now for any tank, the whole purpose of buffing offhand dps is to bring it in line with 2 handed weapons so clearly you missed the memo about 2 hander OPedness.  But I guess u know better then the devs right lawl.

Only one warrior gets an extreme amount of AE auto attack.  And please save the auto attack compared to Crusaders argument.  Our Bruiser does a lot more auto attack damage than I do....thats right he just knows how to play better.  This change just up'd your DPS in both Offensive and Defensive.

And no 2h weps aer not clearly the best.  The only one taking advantage of 2h at all right now is a Zerker with 100% AE auto attack on large groups of mobs.  There is 0 incentive on Live for me to use a 2h....and according to the BEST bruiser WW his DW'ing > 2h already....its why he uses 2 awesome weapons instead of the junk from Vaclaz.

Yes, I do know better than the devs.  The 2h mechanic has been weak for a long long time...and everybody knows it.  Now they are looking to even things out and what do they do?  The raise DW'ing even more because they are worried about the gap that the bow changes are going to cause against DW scouts.  All that the stupid change did was raise up all melee DPS while closing the gap for rangers using the new bow mechanics.  It did nothing to close the gap between 2h and DW that is glaringly obvious.  And I am a little confused why you are so argumentative since you are the one that made the OP about the need for change to KS.  You obviously know there is a discrepency and you know it was going to be brought up, and yet you seem dead set on making sure that gap stays in.  Bored much?

__________________
Bruener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 11:42 AM   #29
Wasuna

Loremaster
Wasuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,222
Default

You have to be out of your mind. Adding KS to 2H will just push Crusaders over the top. You already out DPS everybody else in the fighter world and you want to do more damage? Your crazy.

1. KS should not allow a crusader pump up their DPS while still having the benefit of uncontested avoidance.

2. KS should not allow the crusader to pump up their DPS even higher than they can now.

Get real, your a fighter. If you want to do crazy DPS make an Assassin or Wizard and live with the draw backs of those classes. As it is now you can click a button and instantly have uncontested avoidance back, Click another button and be 80-90% raid tank efficient in defensive and then click another button and have all your weapons back on for tanking. Name me an Assassin that can do that? Or Wizard?

And don't give me any crap about you can't do as much DPS as they can. You have a choice to be able to tank and therefore you should be NOWHERE near any real DPS numbers.

__________________
The definition of Crazy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Wasuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 07:45 PM   #30
BChizzle

Loremaster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,095
Default

Bruener wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Bruener wrote:

To the OP...

Yes KS does need an adjustment IF they aren't going to beef up 2h weps even more than what they are on test to catch up with the new DW mechanics.

As a Brawler I am sure you understand how powerful the huge amount of AE auto attack is with both weapons being able to proc it, along with how much more DPS DW will give on single targets due to the flurry mechanics.  Xelgad bumped 2h weps 12% roughly to catch up with DW.....but that 12% increase only catches up to DW mechanics pre-AE/flurry from the offhand.  As the game progresses and people reach capped AE auto attack and start getting more and more flurry it is going to become obvious the gap that DW has over 2h.  Shocking really because we all know 2h weps should have been brought up 12% to match what DW'ing is doing on Live....makes no sense.

KS really should be changed to 15-25%(pending testing) base damage to all wep types.  This would help close the big gap between 2h and DW.

I mean what Brawler/Warrior is going to use a 2h to DPS at all when DW has such an obvious advantage.  Not to mention the much faster change to 1h+board that DW'ing gets over 2h...and for Brawlers even that is moot since they are a DW all the time class.

For one, brawlers don't get even close to the same amount of ae auto attack that warriors get, in fact the ae auto attack buffs will mearly bring us in line with the ae auto attack % of a crusader doing 1 handed damage without knights stance.  Get it?  The changes will bring us in line with your ae auto attack dps while at the same time you still hold a significant advantage on ae agro through your superior ca's and spells.  On top of that, you are under some sort of delusional mind set that 2 handed weapons aren't in fact the best options right now for any tank, the whole purpose of buffing offhand dps is to bring it in line with 2 handed weapons so clearly you missed the memo about 2 hander OPedness.  But I guess u know better then the devs right lawl.

Only one warrior gets an extreme amount of AE auto attack.  And please save the auto attack compared to Crusaders argument.  Our Bruiser does a lot more auto attack damage than I do....thats right he just knows how to play better.  This change just up'd your DPS in both Offensive and Defensive.

And no 2h weps aer not clearly the best.  The only one taking advantage of 2h at all right now is a Zerker with 100% AE auto attack on large groups of mobs.  There is 0 incentive on Live for me to use a 2h....and according to the BEST bruiser WW his DW'ing > 2h already....its why he uses 2 awesome weapons instead of the junk from Vaclaz.

Yes, I do know better than the devs.  The 2h mechanic has been weak for a long long time...and everybody knows it.  Now they are looking to even things out and what do they do?  The raise DW'ing even more because they are worried about the gap that the bow changes are going to cause against DW scouts.  All that the stupid change did was raise up all melee DPS while closing the gap for rangers using the new bow mechanics.  It did nothing to close the gap between 2h and DW that is glaringly obvious.  And I am a little confused why you are so argumentative since you are the one that made the OP about the need for change to KS.  You obviously know there is a discrepency and you know it was going to be brought up, and yet you seem dead set on making sure that gap stays in.  Bored much?

I outparse the best bruiser WW using a 2 hander, lets ignore the fact that in theory a monk should never outparse a bruiser, I wonder what causes the differences?  Could it possibly be that I used a 2 hander, omg no way!  As far as the rest go, until you come to grips with the reality that DW was buffed to become as good as 2 handing it you should just stay out of that conversation.  Anyways stop trying to manipulate the conversation, it isn't about 2 handers its about KS vs DW and now that offhands will ae auto and flurry is KS still balanced (not that it was ever really balanced to DW dps)?

BChizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:01 PM.

vBulletin skin by: CompleteGFX.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All threads and posts originally from the EQ2 and Station forums operated by Sony Online Entertainment. Their use is by express written permission.