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Old 09-21-2006, 10:32 PM   #1
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The problem with tradeskill instances is NOT that they are an instance; it's the cramped convoluted layouts.  Tradeskill instances should be a warehouse like setting, one large room full of crafting stations.
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Old 09-21-2006, 11:33 PM   #2
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I agree.

Would be more sociable.

and i hate doors :smileytongue:

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Old 09-22-2006, 12:00 AM   #3
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The Freeport TS instances were always MUCH better laid out than the Qeynos ones.  In fact I never leveled a Qeynos artisan past level 5, because I couldn't figure out whre any of the stinking stuff was and was easier just to level my main Freeport toons.And that room off kilter at like a 10 degree angle in the Qeynos crafting instances always made me vaguely seasick, haha.
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Old 09-22-2006, 01:15 AM   #4
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Are you kidding!?!?!?

I can't stand the freeport tradeskill layouts, all those dang stairs, have to guess which floor you need... qeynos is nice and easy, 3 rooms (off the main room), all one floor.

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Old 09-22-2006, 01:27 AM   #5
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The only way I could stand the Freeport tradeskill instances is if I had safe-fall. :smileytongue:
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Old 09-22-2006, 01:58 AM   #6
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Qeynos and Freeport tradeskill instances suck equally. :smileytongue:
 
Cool layouts are for dungeons.  Navigating a maze every day just to tradekskill is plain silly.  One big room, have signs hanging from the ceiling over each section of stations that declare what the section is for.  Have waiters roam the room offering free food and drink... well ok, not that.
 
 
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Old 09-22-2006, 03:12 AM   #7
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Augusten wrote:
Qeynos and Freeport tradeskill instances suck equally. :smileytongue:
 
Cool layouts are for dungeons.  Navigating a maze every day just to tradekskill is plain silly.  One big room, have signs hanging from the ceiling over each section of stations that declare what the section is for.  Have waiters roam the room offering free food and drink... well ok, not that.
 

It seems to me that the layouts may have been created as they were for performance reasons.  Nice solid walls or floors make good z-buffer cutoffs to prevent effects from impacting performance for folks at other stations.  That may also be why the new stations are fairly well-separated outdoors.I know thay my performance suffers at a writing station when my line of sight includes someone else working at the same or the adjacent station, which is why I perfer the "end" stations and being positioned to look into the corner.But I'd surely appreciate free drinks, or even a temporary buff from a permanent resident of a crafting instance to have an appropriate drink's power regen :smileyhappy:Rho
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Old 09-22-2006, 04:02 AM   #8
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Augusten wrote:
The problem with tradeskill instances is NOT that they are an instance; it's the cramped convoluted layouts.  Tradeskill instances should be a warehouse like setting, one large room full of crafting stations.

YES, YES and oh yeah YES!I just spent half an hour on test hunting for machines, dealing with merchants who sell everything now adding fuel to their long lists of "stuff" for sale - where there was a merchant selling fuel at all.This new proposed system is a disaster of monumental proportions. My carpenter just stood out in the rain in NQ making strong boxes. How immersive is that unless you consider it literal immersion?You want to add stations outside the dungeons SOE? Fine, but keep the dungeons and update them.
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Old 09-22-2006, 06:37 AM   #9
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Not to mention that SoE has completely "misunderstood" (I'm being gracious here) what the original complaint was. People wanted to have access to crafting stations outside of the main city, not just relocating them from instances to "outside, in the city". In other words, places like Windstalker Village in Antonica, the crossroads in the Commonlands, the village in Thundering Steppes or the docks in Nektulos Forest (as well as in the higher tier zones, of course).

I'm just hoping that they're listening to all of this negative feedback, and not just ignoring it. Unlike the changes in LU13 and LU24 where there was resistance to changes that fundamentally improved the mechanics of the game, this is just rearranging the deckchairs and doing nothing to improve the overall gameplay for crafters -- in fact, it's not even really a neutral change just for the sake of change, it's a change with profoundly detrimental effects on the very players its supposed to benefit.

I'd really suggest that everyone who can, participate in that test on Monday (I know I am) and send them /feedback. They can dismiss forum posts out of hand; I think it would be more difficult for them to ignore thousands of negative in-game feedback reports.

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Old 09-22-2006, 10:20 AM   #10
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Kordran wrote:

Not to mention that SoE has completely "misunderstood" (I'm being gracious here) what the original complaint was. People wanted to have access to crafting stations outside of the main city, not just relocating them from instances to "outside, in the city". In other words, places like Windstalker Village in Antonica, the crossroads in the Commonlands, the village in Thundering Steppes or the docks in Nektulos Forest (as well as in the higher tier zones, of course).

I'm just hoping that they're listening to all of this negative feedback, and not just ignoring it. Unlike the changes in LU13 and LU24 where there was resistance to changes that fundamentally improved the mechanics of the game, this is just rearranging the deckchairs and doing nothing to improve the overall gameplay for crafters -- in fact, it's not even really a neutral change just for the sake of change, it's a change with profoundly detrimental effects on the very players its supposed to benefit.

I'd really suggest that everyone who can, participate in that test on Monday (I know I am) and send them /feedback. They can dismiss forum posts out of hand; I think it would be more difficult for them to ignore thousands of negative in-game feedback reports.




Well I also hope they are listening to the complaints here. I also do feel there is some hope they will listen to complaints because they did listen to complaints when it came to T6 harvesting a while ago. Who knows maybe they have just removed the TS instances on test to force people to test the new outdoor ones and have no intent on getting rid of the Instances on live. The big problem I have with this whole thing is that the Update notes I read made it sound like the outdoor devices was option being added and the Instances were going to remain. Also the fact that no DEV have given an explanation on why they are removing the instances in the first place.
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Old 09-22-2006, 04:47 PM   #11
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Kordran wrote:
I'd really suggest that everyone who can, participate in that test on Monday (I know I am) and send them /feedback. They can dismiss forum posts out of hand; I think it would be more difficult for them to ignore thousands of negative in-game feedback reports.
Heh, part of why there's so much posting going on is because /feedback and /bug -- which are vital for everyone but as you'd imagine, doubly so for Test players -- are both causing crash to desktop on Test.  I hope they fix that before Monday.
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Old 09-22-2006, 05:01 PM   #12
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missionarymarr wrote:

Who knows maybe they have just removed the TS instances on test to force people to test the new outdoor ones and have no intent on getting rid of the Instances on live.

The devs have read and composed threads, had ample opputunity to state this is just for testing or a bug, yet they have not said a word. Only a callous butthole would know it is just a test or bug yet let the worry and doubt linger without assuaging crafters fears. I don't think the devs fall into that category, so I beleive in this case the silence speaks volumes and they are in fact doing away with TS instancing. Let's just hope they change their minds.
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:04 PM   #13
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A building like the big warehouse at the docks in QH filled with crafting stations comes to mind... SMILEYBut please don't put it in the already laggy QH zone...
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:16 PM   #14
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BY GOD, if you do this I swear I will move into my house and never leave. hahahaha

At least keep the 2 instances in west freeport open.

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Old 09-22-2006, 07:21 PM   #15
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Quoted by EtolleAnd that room off kilter at like a 10 degree angle in the Qeynos crafting instances always made me vaguely seasick, haha.hey, thay also remind me of old batman tv series, where all those villians are always in crooked slighted room angle, SMILEY
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Old 09-22-2006, 07:58 PM   #16
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Kordran wrote:

Not to mention that SoE has completely "misunderstood" (I'm being gracious here) what the original complaint was. People wanted to have access to crafting stations outside of the main city, not just relocating them from instances to "outside, in the city". In other words, places like Windstalker Village in Antonica, the crossroads in the Commonlands, the village in Thundering Steppes or the docks in Nektulos Forest (as well as in the higher tier zones, of course).

I'm just hoping that they're listening to all of this negative feedback, and not just ignoring it. Unlike the changes in LU13 and LU24 where there was resistance to changes that fundamentally improved the mechanics of the game, this is just rearranging the deckchairs and doing nothing to improve the overall gameplay for crafters -- in fact, it's not even really a neutral change just for the sake of change, it's a change with profoundly detrimental effects on the very players its supposed to benefit.

I'd really suggest that everyone who can, participate in that test on Monday (I know I am) and send them /feedback. They can dismiss forum posts out of hand; I think it would be more difficult for them to ignore thousands of negative in-game feedback reports.



The biggest problem I see with that, is the fact that all the times I have played on Test (I do have a couple of toons on that server), I have never seen more than two people in QH, Willow wood, heck just about any of the cities where they are moving these crafting stations to.  And come to think of it, I have never seen more than 70 people on the entire server any time I have been on.

This leads me to believe that even if they had some fluke happen and more than 100 people logged on to Test, not all of those who log on have crafters (or have any interest in crafting therefore no desire to actually test the crafting changes), and there is simply not going to be enough people on at any given time to accurately determine the kind of impact these changes are going to make on the live servers where there can be 60+ people in a city zone.

No amount of testing these changes is going to be able to determine the detrimental impact to crafters AND non-crafters who are forced to travel through these zones on the live servers, for the simple fact that not enough people exist on the test server.

As someone else said on one of the other threads regarding these absurd changes, you don't have to take a bite of a poo sandwhich to know it's not gonna be good.

Also, I haven't seen anyone else make this point, but I for one do not necessarily WANT to have non-crafters "witness my crafting skills" or whatever hogwash the Devs said in the test update notes.  Sometimes I just want to craft in peace and quiet.  Sometimes (ok, most of the time), I just want to level my crafter without being bothered. Without having to deal with people dueling, or spamming *whatever*, or griefing.

99.9% of the time, I only craft to level my toon, make stuff for myself, my alts, or my friends/guildmates and do not advertise LFW or take orders from random people. I do not want, or feel compelled, to advertise being a crafter by being forced to be on display like some trained circus monkey.  For some crafters who choose to pay their characters as crafters first, adventurers second, forcing them out of the tradeskill instances may be the ONLY positive thing I see about all this rubbish. But as most of my toons, the high level ones especially, they are adventurers first, crafters second, I have very little free time between quests and raids as it is.  I don't want to spend the little time I do have for crafting being frustrated because of the lag, the distractions, the spam, or the annoyance of having to run all over [Removed for Content] norrath to find whatever stations or crafting vendors I need.

This is just a bad idea, all around.  And I WILL make a point of logging on my test server toons on Monday and making my displeasure over this crud known.  IF they manage to fix the /feedback crashes before then...

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Old 09-22-2006, 11:54 PM   #17
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I've been crafting long enough to completely memorize every room and every floor in both tradeskill instances so I have no problem getting to the required device.  I never tried to use the in-game map.  Is there one for those instances?  But I've always hated zoning so having the stations outside makes sense to me.

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