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Old 06-28-2012, 05:31 PM   #31
Ogdinmar

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Well i play a bruiser (primarily) guardian and paladin.  i noticed the death save change but imo who cares one min is better than 45 sec plus the reuseon mine is down to like 3min self buffed full 2.5 miin in raid.  I hear what your saying about alot of this but in the end im sorry to have to say QQ.  we as brawalers were on top of the world it was our time to be notched a bit. However if peeps are any bit the true tank they claim to be they can adapt or they can cry i guess but that just means you can only hack it when your given everything on a platter.  i mean so we have to put alittle thought in our class again and not face roll.  i like the changes and personally whineing isnt gonna make things right if your gonna shoot things down try comming up with an alternative(realistic) that can be something of consideration.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:38 PM   #32
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[email protected] wrote:

It seems to me they want to bring the class down closer to where everyone else is.

(( There is that statement once again. The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks.

But no matter how many times the same few plate tank players make that statement, it does not get any more true.

Stop talking about the 1% of the playerbase working on hardmode progression raiding. Look at the rest of us, who are geared for and tank in normal play. There is no truth whatsoever that brawlers are stronger than certain plate tank classes.

MASSIVE nerfs to one class, because of class jealousy amongst the 1%, is really not the right way for SOE to go. All it will do is make brawler tanks the poorer cousins of all other tanks in the game most of us are playing.

The Strikethrough nerf affects the raiders who are claiming lack of balance, that's not a concern to me at all.

The Tenacity nerf, however, will hit heroic and casual raiding brawler players, and is simply not needed. In heroic settings, for characters appropriately geared for those settings, the strongest tanks are certainly not brawlers even before this proposed nerf fest ))

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:40 PM   #33
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BChizzle wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

While I am sure you know this Blanka, monks are in an entire tier of their own when it comes to stoneskins and death saves compared to every other tank class. If I was to divide tanks into deathsave / stoneskin rankings for all content, it would go like this: 1. Monk 2. Guardian, Bruiser 3. Berserker, Shadowknight, Paladin This brawler change will put bruisers into the third group, abet at the top of it, and monks closer to guardians on deathsaves and stoneskins, but still slightly ahead. Also, while a completely separate issue, due to class mechanics, the mitigation nerf will hurt bruisers more than it will monks, but it will still hurt monks a lot.

For one guardians have more stoneskins and the deathsaves are a wash between the classes.  For two bruisers proc a stoneskin on ripostes so they have considerably more stoneskins then either a monk or guardian.

You know full well, while yes a guardian has more stoneskins total, they are not as controllable as the staple monk one, perfect guard I believe it is called, that can be cast every 30 seconds at 100 percent reuse with one trigger. Also yes while technically bruisers have the most stoneskin triggers of any tank, you can never rely on their proc stoneskin for a death touch EVER. That proc is plain and simple just a way to reduce incoming damage. I am not going to deny that currently, bruisers have the lowest overall incoming damage of any tank class, but that has no bearing on the classes ability to handle constant death touches.

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Old 06-28-2012, 05:45 PM   #34
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Corydonn wrote:

Still makes Templars and Wardens alot more viable. It's a + for class balance.

This quote irks me, because this change does nothing to make templars more desireable. Quite simply templars have the exact same number of death prevents of every other healer EXCEPT wardens, and none of these changes make templars anymore desireable.

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Old 06-28-2012, 06:45 PM   #35
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It seems to me they want to bring the class down closer to where everyone else is.

(( There is that statement once again. The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks.

But no matter how many times the same few plate tank players make that statement, it does not get any more true.

Stop talking about the 1% of the playerbase working on hardmode progression raiding. Look at the rest of us, who are geared for and tank in normal play. There is no truth whatsoever that brawlers are stronger than certain plate tank classes.

MASSIVE nerfs to one class, because of class jealousy amongst the 1%, is really not the right way for SOE to go. All it will do is make brawler tanks the poorer cousins of all other tanks in the game most of us are playing.

The Strikethrough nerf affects the raiders who are claiming lack of balance, that's not a concern to me at all.

The Tenacity nerf, however, will hit heroic and casual raiding brawler players, and is simply not needed. In heroic settings, for characters appropriately geared for those settings, the strongest tanks are certainly not brawlers even before this proposed nerf fest ))

What is true at the top of the game is true thru the entire game, just bad players are slower to realize it.

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Old 06-28-2012, 07:07 PM   #36
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Hennyo wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Still makes Templars and Wardens alot more viable. It's a + for class balance.

This quote irks me, because this change does nothing to make templars more desireable. Quite simply templars have the exact same number of death prevents of every other healer EXCEPT wardens, and none of these changes make templars anymore desireable.

Not sure if serious....

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Old 06-28-2012, 07:29 PM   #37
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I just logged in to see what you guys were doing to fighters.  With update Brawlers will be going back to were there a few expansions ago.  The reason Brawlers got the strike thru immunity in the first place is because They Tank thru Advoidance.  Whats the point of it they can be hit via strikethru anyways?  I don't raid anymore, and i never raided on my Brawler, but with this update you might as well knock them to scout and put them with the beastlord.

Recklessness should double Crit bonus as well.  isn't 75% of dps Melee anymore?  No one hits buttens man, we just afk auto attack.  Thats the way Soe took the game, Ruining a class because of their mechanics yet again.  All this added to potency is kinda funny tho.  I am surprized wizards aren't crying to get the Recklessness stace. lol

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Old 06-28-2012, 08:25 PM   #38
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Corydonn wrote:

Hennyo wrote:

Corydonn wrote:

Still makes Templars and Wardens alot more viable. It's a + for class balance.

This quote irks me, because this change does nothing to make templars more desireable. Quite simply templars have the exact same number of death prevents of every other healer EXCEPT wardens, and none of these changes make templars anymore desireable.

Not sure if serious....

Please tell me if I am forgeting something, templars have a normal 5 minute single target deathsave like very other healers out there, and if they so choose, they can pick a two trigger stoneskin for their heroic AA, that both clerics can get. I am not saying that templars don't have slightly more healing capacity than most other healers, but that has zero effect on attacks that hit for 400 or 500k

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Old 06-28-2012, 08:36 PM   #39
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It really is funny to me how if someone takes a class and plays it to their full potential ( better than some others can) they are automatically flagged as overpowered and several people hop on the "OMGGG NERFFF IT" bandwagon. All classes are mostly balanced, and honestly, this is the best balance ( pre herpdederp gu64 , btw, qeynos is pathetic) we ever had. Brawlers did have abit of advantage in PoW/Drunder HM but 90% of these issues were GONE with lvl 92 and the new gear. The bad players flocked to the forums complaining that their class sucks. I'm really scared to log on any character and get used to a new class because you guys seem to make changes every month... then you end up breaking something, and making more useless changes. Might want to give up.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:48 PM   #40
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[email protected] wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It seems to me they want to bring the class down closer to where everyone else is.

(( There is that statement once again. The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks.

But no matter how many times the same few plate tank players make that statement, it does not get any more true.

Stop talking about the 1% of the playerbase working on hardmode progression raiding. Look at the rest of us, who are geared for and tank in normal play. There is no truth whatsoever that brawlers are stronger than certain plate tank classes.

MASSIVE nerfs to one class, because of class jealousy amongst the 1%, is really not the right way for SOE to go. All it will do is make brawler tanks the poorer cousins of all other tanks in the game most of us are playing.

The Strikethrough nerf affects the raiders who are claiming lack of balance, that's not a concern to me at all.

The Tenacity nerf, however, will hit heroic and casual raiding brawler players, and is simply not needed. In heroic settings, for characters appropriately geared for those settings, the strongest tanks are certainly not brawlers even before this proposed nerf fest ))

What is true at the top of the game is true thru the entire game, just bad players are slower to realize it.

(( For the game 99% of us are playing, Brawlers are far from overpowered.

We don't see heroic groups looking for specifically brawlers every day, or biasing towards them.

We don't see pick-up raids only wanting brawler tanks or biasing to them.

We don't see alliance and semi-open raids only wanting brawler tanks or biasing to them.

We don't see casual guild raids only wanting brawler tanks or biasing to them.

And in fact, where multiple tank types are present, the bias if there is one remains with certain specific plate tank classes - SK and Guardian - from everything I continue to see in normal raiding.

But I am not a hardmode raider so my views don't count and I'm a bad player? You can file that attitude in the waste disposal. All it is doing is attempting to hide the self-interest of a plate tank player making unjustified and unsubstantial claims about brawlers.

What may or may not be true in hardmode raiding, is of no relevance to 99% of the playerbase, and balancing hardmode progression raiding should NEVER be allowed to imbalance the game negatively for everyone else

The last thing needed is a specific heavy nerf to brawler tanks, just because of some whining about hardmode raid balance ))

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Old 06-28-2012, 10:27 PM   #41
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It seems to me they want to bring the class down closer to where everyone else is.

(( There is that statement once again. The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks.

But no matter how many times the same few plate tank players make that statement, it does not get any more true.

Stop talking about the 1% of the playerbase working on hardmode progression raiding. Look at the rest of us, who are geared for and tank in normal play. There is no truth whatsoever that brawlers are stronger than certain plate tank classes.

MASSIVE nerfs to one class, because of class jealousy amongst the 1%, is really not the right way for SOE to go. All it will do is make brawler tanks the poorer cousins of all other tanks in the game most of us are playing.

The Strikethrough nerf affects the raiders who are claiming lack of balance, that's not a concern to me at all.

The Tenacity nerf, however, will hit heroic and casual raiding brawler players, and is simply not needed. In heroic settings, for characters appropriately geared for those settings, the strongest tanks are certainly not brawlers even before this proposed nerf fest ))

Agreed The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks has been said so many times people actually believe it now. This is really unfortunate since a prefectly good class is getting destroyed for no good reason.

The jealousy does not come from the top 1% of players. This thread was actually started by a top guard being concerned about brawlers. The tanks are well ballanced at the top. The brawler jealousy comes from extremely bad players who really just need to Learn to Play the game.

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Old 06-28-2012, 11:15 PM   #42
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Novusod wrote:

[email protected] Bayle wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

It seems to me they want to bring the class down closer to where everyone else is.

(( There is that statement once again. The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks.

But no matter how many times the same few plate tank players make that statement, it does not get any more true.

Stop talking about the 1% of the playerbase working on hardmode progression raiding. Look at the rest of us, who are geared for and tank in normal play. There is no truth whatsoever that brawlers are stronger than certain plate tank classes.

MASSIVE nerfs to one class, because of class jealousy amongst the 1%, is really not the right way for SOE to go. All it will do is make brawler tanks the poorer cousins of all other tanks in the game most of us are playing.

The Strikethrough nerf affects the raiders who are claiming lack of balance, that's not a concern to me at all.

The Tenacity nerf, however, will hit heroic and casual raiding brawler players, and is simply not needed. In heroic settings, for characters appropriately geared for those settings, the strongest tanks are certainly not brawlers even before this proposed nerf fest ))

Agreed The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks has been said so many times people actually believe it now. This is really unfortunate since a prefectly good class is getting destroyed for no good reason.

The jealousy does not come from the top 1% of players. This thread was actually started by a top guard being concerned about brawlers. The tanks are well ballanced at the top. The brawler jealousy comes from extremely bad players who really just need to Learn to Play the game.

The lie that brawlers are being destroyed has been said so many times dumb people actually believe it now.  This is really unfortunate since a perfectly good class is being typecast as bad for no good reason.

Complaining doesn't come from teh top 1% of brawlers aka me and cory.  Tanks are still well balanced at the top.  The complaining comes from extremely bad players who really just need to Learn to Play the game.

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Old 06-29-2012, 12:01 AM   #43
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BChizzle wrote:

Novusod wrote:

Agreed The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks has been said so many times people actually believe it now. This is really unfortunate since a prefectly good class is getting destroyed for no good reason.

The jealousy does not come from the top 1% of players. This thread was actually started by a top guard being concerned about brawlers. The tanks are well ballanced at the top. The brawler jealousy comes from extremely bad players who really just need to Learn to Play the game.

The lie that brawlers are being destroyed has been said so many times dumb people actually believe it now.  This is really unfortunate since a perfectly good class is being typecast as bad for no good reason.

Complaining doesn't come from teh top 1% of brawlers aka me and cory.  Tanks are still well balanced at the top.  The complaining comes from extremely bad players who really just need to Learn to Play the game.

Part of the reason Brawlers are getting nerfed as defensive tanks is because of you two fools. You definitely represent the herpderp I_R_DPS fighter crowd. I_R_learn to tank in offensive stance bla bla bla. Yeah I am pointing at you Blanka. If anything needs a nerf it is your tactics. Nothing is MORE overpowered and game breaking than tanking in offensive stance.

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Old 06-29-2012, 12:18 AM   #44
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Novusod wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

Novusod wrote:

Agreed The lie that brawlers are any stronger than other tanks has been said so many times people actually believe it now. This is really unfortunate since a prefectly good class is getting destroyed for no good reason.

The jealousy does not come from the top 1% of players. This thread was actually started by a top guard being concerned about brawlers. The tanks are well ballanced at the top. The brawler jealousy comes from extremely bad players who really just need to Learn to Play the game.

The lie that brawlers are being destroyed has been said so many times dumb people actually believe it now.  This is really unfortunate since a perfectly good class is being typecast as bad for no good reason.

Complaining doesn't come from teh top 1% of brawlers aka me and cory.  Tanks are still well balanced at the top.  The complaining comes from extremely bad players who really just need to Learn to Play the game.

Part of the reason Brawlers are getting nerfed as defensive tanks is because of you two fools. You definitely represent the herpderp I_R_DPS fighter crowd. I_R_learn to tank in offensive stance bla bla bla. Yeah I am pointing at you Blanka. If anything needs a nerf it is your tactics. Nothing is MORE overpowered and game breaking than tanking in offensive stance.

Sorry dude, but we played together remember.  You know you are that brawler that was still using a 2 hander in DOV who specced tag team and refused to use combat mastery ever.  You want to question my tanking style as dps yet I take eagles as the sacrifice of a huge amount of dps.  The stuff you are crying about is so trivial it doesn't even matter.  Strikethrough immunity doesn't matter, the BT change doesn't matter.

You want to know the real problems with these changes.  First one is that our block is tied to our defensive stance, that means unlike plate tanks our base value doesn't go up with better offhand items.(not to mention a plate tank can still wear a shield in recklessness.  Devs can offset this by adding block chance to our weaps but then that is screwed over and we get weaker items due to itemscore.  The second issue is the mit nerf that will be addressed since its global and a dev already commented on it.

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Old 06-29-2012, 02:42 AM   #45
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BChizzle wrote:

You guys are insane.  Brawlers still have a crazy amount of saves and that is what matters in todays super annoying 1 hit lazy raid mechanics.

Obano Ill use your little example but show what can be done with a monk.

0s - Add pops30s - First death touch use stoneskin (cannot be parried)60s - Use stoneskin90s - Use stoneskin120s - Get jcapped USE BT first trigger gone150s - 2nd BT trigger gone180s - Use stoneskin210s - Use stoneskin240s - Use stoneskin270s - BT back up use it again300s - BT 2nd trigger330s - Use stoneskin...etc etc etc

All the while during this tanking a monk can chain his mountain stance and avoidance saves to make sure they are at either high mit or avoiding all hits, if there is an issue with mountain stance not proccing a reset we can use provoking stance as well as using our magic ward to prevent any AE damage when needed.

I think though tanking is becoming way too tedious.  They need to change encounters back to be about fun not about tanks being savechainers.
 
 
 

I think though tanking is becoming way too tedious.  They need to change encounters back to be about fun not about tanks being savechainers.

That Sums it up

The WW mitt reduction shouldnt have happened, supposedly that will be addressed

Strikethrough immunity isnt needed anymore so it needed to be removed 

The BT change I don't agree with only because of what Blanka said which is exactly correct and applies to AEs also, theres way to much 1 shot bs in this game now every mob has it, every ae can do it. Tanking use to be about smoothing inc damage to a managable curve by the tank and healers working together now its simply a try stay alive through some overpowered rediculas AE or mob ability that will gauranteed 1 shot you unless you block it. And this occurs way more often than it should upwards of every 20 seconds on some mobs who have multiple aes capable of 1 shotting you combined with death shot mechanics of some type. Add in the massive amount of raid, herioc mobs that stun, stiffle and disarm tanks and its just a pain in the assume to tank anymore.

The heals what ever id like to see them around 50% maybe 60% if you use AA

And Atan your class has been in a great spot since the revamp it got, you guys go unseen because the focus has been on brawlers and yes I have a Guard along with my monk they are just as easy to tank with as a brawler and control agro and hate much better.

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Old 06-29-2012, 11:22 AM   #46
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Novusod wrote:

Nothing is MORE overpowered and game breaking than tanking in offensive stance.

(( ^^^This.

Trying to cater to people who want to be both top DPS and tank at the same time, ie, ego-obsessed I_R_GODCLASS people, is very bad for the game. There may be some very small number (you suggested, two) of excessively well-geared brawlers (or other fighter classes) worldwide who have become used to tanking in offensive, but compared to the hundreds (or thousands) of fighters not at that level, statistically they are outlieing points on the graph, they mean nothing and their unique and massively biased perspective is not relevant when trying to balance the game as a whole.

The game design is quite clear. Defensive stances are meant for tanking. Offensive stances are meant for when not tanking. It isn't really complicated.

Regardless of all the arguments raging over the balancing of it, the new stance, Reckless, has clearly been stated as a non-tanking stance from the outset, but I bet there will STILL be a few trying to tank in it, and some of those who do will whine like mad if it isn't as powerful in that regard as it should be.

I'll pull no punches on this one - I would propose SOE modify all offensive and reckless stances for all fighters as far as tanking is concerned, so that your character ends up no better than a scout when trying to tank in offensive, and all fighter tools for tanking, including all defensive temp buffs, are unavailable when not in defensive. For every fighter class.

Too many players (including some very very top-end-geared raiders) are misunderstanding the PRIMARY role of a fighter, and are getting their egos all bent out of shape if they are not near the top of some ACT parse. But our job as fighters, whether plate tank or brawler, whether top-geared raiding tank or the weakest sub-heroic-geared grouping tank, is not primarily DPS. Obsession with parses has risen to almost a fever-pitched obsession with some fighter players, however.

SOE should NOT be catering to those people. At all. Fighters are primarily tanks, and if we are to have an "offensive" or "reckless" mode of operation (the argument for and against I see raging on other threads, but I can see why some players would like it to exist in some form), then there is absolutely no need to provide any support for tanking whatsoever when in that offensive mode.

That done, Defensive stances can be balanced for tanking capability and Offensive/Reckless stances can be balanced for DPS contribution, without the two getting muddled up with each other ))

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Old 06-29-2012, 11:55 AM   #47
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[email protected] Bayle wrote:

Novusod wrote:

Nothing is MORE overpowered and game breaking than tanking in offensive stance.

(( ^^^This.

Trying to cater to people who want to be both top DPS and tank at the same time, ie, ego-obsessed I_R_GODCLASS people, is very bad for the game. There may be some very small number (you suggested, two) of excessively well-geared brawlers (or other fighter classes) worldwide who have become used to tanking in offensive, but compared to the hundreds (or thousands) of fighters not at that level, statistically they are outlieing points on the graph, they mean nothing and their unique and massively biased perspective is not relevant when trying to balance the game as a whole.

The game design is quite clear. Defensive stances are meant for tanking. Offensive stances are meant for when not tanking. It isn't really complicated.

Regardless of all the arguments raging over the balancing of it, the new stance, Reckless, has clearly been stated as a non-tanking stance from the outset, but I bet there will STILL be a few trying to tank in it, and some of those who do will whine like mad if it isn't as powerful in that regard as it should be.

I'll pull no punches on this one - I would propose SOE modify all offensive and reckless stances for all fighters as far as tanking is concerned, so that your character ends up no better than a scout when trying to tank in offensive, and all fighter tools for tanking, including all defensive temp buffs, are unavailable when not in defensive. For every fighter class.

Too many players (including some very very top-end-geared raiders) are misunderstanding the PRIMARY role of a fighter, and are getting their egos all bent out of shape if they are not near the top of some ACT parse. But our job as fighters, whether plate tank or brawler, whether top-geared raiding tank or the weakest sub-heroic-geared grouping tank, is not primarily DPS. Obsession with parses has risen to almost a fever-pitched obsession with some fighter players, however.

SOE should NOT be catering to those people. At all. Fighters are primarily tanks, and if we are to have an "offensive" or "reckless" mode of operation (the argument for and against I see raging on other threads, but I can see why some players would like it to exist in some form), then there is absolutely no need to provide any support for tanking whatsoever when in that offensive mode.

That done, Defensive stances can be balanced for tanking capability and Offensive/Reckless stances can be balanced for DPS contribution, without the two getting muddled up with each other ))

You don't even have a clue what you are talking about.  They introduced a mechanic where you take unwardable damage if you avoid a hit.  As a result smart brawlers stopped using their defensive stance it had nothing to do with DPS.  The changes to strikethrough actually allows us to use our defensive stance for tanking again and actually can be seen as a buff not a nerf.  This is why most knowledgable brawlers don't care that we lost strikethrough immunity.  Also most knowledgable brawlers recognized that our deathsave was a little bit too much.  Its not about gear quite frankly you can tank most things in this game in faction gear which is available to everyone.  Obano is doing his usual sky is falling routine because he is very slow historically at adapting to changes with his class, he does it every time something new happens.  In 6 months time when he catches up with everyone else he will look back at this thread and think oops my bad.

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Old 06-29-2012, 11:58 AM   #48
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[email protected] wrote:

BChizzle wrote:

You guys are insane.  Brawlers still have a crazy amount of saves and that is what matters in todays super annoying 1 hit lazy raid mechanics.

Obano Ill use your little example but show what can be done with a monk.

0s - Add pops30s - First death touch use stoneskin (cannot be parried)60s - Use stoneskin90s - Use stoneskin120s - Get jcapped USE BT first trigger gone150s - 2nd BT trigger gone180s - Use stoneskin210s - Use stoneskin240s - Use stoneskin270s - BT back up use it again300s - BT 2nd trigger330s - Use stoneskin...etc etc etc

All the while during this tanking a monk can chain his mountain stance and avoidance saves to make sure they are at either high mit or avoiding all hits, if there is an issue with mountain stance not proccing a reset we can use provoking stance as well as using our magic ward to prevent any AE damage when needed.

I think though tanking is becoming way too tedious.  They need to change encounters back to be about fun not about tanks being savechainers.
 
 
 

I think though tanking is becoming way too tedious.  They need to change encounters back to be about fun not about tanks being savechainers.

That Sums it up

The WW mitt reduction shouldnt have happened, supposedly that will be addressed

Strikethrough immunity isnt needed anymore so it needed to be removed 

The BT change I don't agree with only because of what Blanka said which is exactly correct and applies to AEs also, theres way to much 1 shot bs in this game now every mob has it, every ae can do it. Tanking use to be about smoothing inc damage to a managable curve by the tank and healers working together now its simply a try stay alive through some overpowered rediculas AE or mob ability that will gauranteed 1 shot you unless you block it. And this occurs way more often than it should upwards of every 20 seconds on some mobs who have multiple aes capable of 1 shotting you combined with death shot mechanics of some type. Add in the massive amount of raid, herioc mobs that stun, stiffle and disarm tanks and its just a pain in the assume to tank anymore.

The heals what ever id like to see them around 50% maybe 60% if you use AA

And Atan your class has been in a great spot since the revamp it got, you guys go unseen because the focus has been on brawlers and yes I have a Guard along with my monk they are just as easy to tank with as a brawler and control agro and hate much better.

Seriously, I can't raise this point enough.  Tanking has become more about watching casting bars and ACT timers than it is about reacting and watching whats going on.  I literally stare at timers all night now its not fun I don't get to see the game anymore.

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Old 06-29-2012, 02:10 PM   #49
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Well I personally think this is aweful.

sevalor gorescale / putretor the rotting in UD, I tank Putretor on me monk. the thing is with putretor is his read writing aoe stomp, it hits on a 45s timer like most reds do. guard isnt enough to cover it as there is a power drain/nuke what hits sometimes before and other times after it, this can take the trigger of guard meaning your defenseless to stomp itself. so unless you got about 180k hp you're screwed, so I use BC with it to couter this so for the first 2 reds I'm cool 3rd red get a healer to death save me. with the major nurf to BC forgetting the heal ratio, just the duration means I'm only good for the the first red, meaning by the 5th hit I have no defence what so ever. and have to hope stomp hits before the power drain. and basically thats just death.

So does this mean monks are no longer tanks and just dps. are monks ment to be in reckless stance only and every aoe what goes off expect to get 1 shotted cos reckless stance inc the dmg taken by 50% so a 50k hit becomes a 75k hit, meaning scouts / mages will prolly have a higher servivabilty rate.

And also reckless stance is pony for us as it inc the pot by alot ( in my case around 280 ish ) its a shame that 70% of my dps comes from auto attacks. and reckless stance has FA CB on it. making it worthless.

I know this is prolly falling on deaf ears and that soe frankly dont give a rusty sheriff's badge what anyone says. but I just hope they consider all whats said before going live with this. 

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Old 06-29-2012, 02:27 PM   #50
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Be a shame if bralwers had to start jousting red texts.

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Old 06-29-2012, 02:30 PM   #51
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Xaxtionlorex wrote:

Be a shame if bralwers had to start jousting red texts.

Nope, Brawlers Tenacity, it will take 2 of them, then the third one they will have to joust.

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Old 06-29-2012, 02:37 PM   #52
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Archile wrote:

sevalor gorescale / putretor the rotting in UD, I tank Putretor on me monk. the thing is with putretor is his read writing aoe stomp, it hits on a 45s timer like most reds do. guard isnt enough to cover it as there is a power drain/nuke what hits sometimes before and other times after it, this can take the trigger of guard meaning your defenseless to stomp itself. so unless you got about 180k hp you're screwed, so I use BC with it to couter this so for the first 2 reds I'm cool 3rd red get a healer to death save me. with the major nurf to BC forgetting the heal ratio, just the duration means I'm only good for the the first red, meaning by the 5th hit I have no defence what so ever. and have to hope stomp hits before the power drain. and basically thats just death.

Umm...joust?

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Old 06-29-2012, 02:40 PM   #53
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I think this will affect our raid force.
i'm in a non hardcore raid guild that like to progress. we dont have the best players in our raid force and i consider i'm one of them.
one half of the raidforce is cried by the other half and i think we are not the only guilds out there, nerving the survivability of our Monk MT is for me and the rest of the guild a bad thing.
I have a monk and i like the recklessness stance. but really issent that wrong way around? i like this game for its classes its clear what role you play and what is expected of you. giving the fighter class a ability to DPS why not give the mage the ability to tank ?

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Old 06-30-2012, 12:59 AM   #54
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BChizzle wrote:

You don't even have a clue what you are talking about.  They introduced a mechanic where you take unwardable damage if you avoid a hit.  As a result smart brawlers stopped using their defensive stance it had nothing to do with DPS.  The changes to strikethrough actually allows us to use our defensive stance for tanking again and actually can be seen as a buff not a nerf.  This is why most knowledgable brawlers don't care that we lost strikethrough immunity.  Also most knowledgable brawlers recognized that our deathsave was a little bit too much.  Its not about gear quite frankly you can tank most things in this game in faction gear which is available to everyone.  Obano is doing his usual sky is falling routine because he is very slow historically at adapting to changes with his class, he does it every time something new happens.  In 6 months time when he catches up with everyone else he will look back at this thread and think oops my bad.

I am still ranting about the whole unwardable damage procs on avoided hit. It is basically strikethrough 2.0 which means there now there are two versions of strikethrough in the game and we are not immune to either one of them in Gu64. The only way the removal of strikethrough immunity can be seen as a buff is because it better to get hit than it is to take unwardable procs. I still tank in defensive stance because those unwardable procs usually don't kill me. It is the way they created mechanics that allow anyone to tank in offensive stance that is incredibly messed up.

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